Iow, have you had much exposure to and contact with your duals?
Inspired by ashsuns thread cuz i'm wondering if anybody will be able to spot patterns.
Gotta say the opposite. Immersed since birth with my ID functions.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
I wouldn't call it "dualization" ...but some functions may be strengthened by growing up with LIE dad& ESI mom and after having been in a 7-year relationship with a LSI I met while I was a student, in my early 20s. Since we even lived together for a long time, I guess it counts a lot as influence on the psyche. Not enough experience with ESFP or ESTP though ... which might be why I don't respond too well to irrational Se. I've had some things going on with SLEs and SEEs, but it never worked. I found their randomness and apparently purposeless use of Se hard to bear and the relationships, if the interaction was supposed to be such a thing, were way too fluctuating and chaotic for my taste.
So I'm gonna vote "maybe, sorta. and it's inspiring".
ESI-Fi mother.
SEE in bed, SEE in the sink, SEE on the bus, SEE at breakfast, SEE at work, SEE in meetings, SEE going home, SEE for dinner, SEE interupting my free time. Fucking duals, I'm fish.
+ People who talk about duality like it matters are fucking inept morons and need to stop reading bullshit articles.
This post has my full support. I do think there is a distinction to be made between duality and dualization though.Originally Posted by InvisibleJim
EDIT: The interpersonal aspect of socionics is over emphasized. What do you think?
Last edited by JWC3; 05-05-2014 at 02:50 PM.
Easy Day
I have a (supposedly) ESI mother, now I have a ESI girlfriend. Not sure about the typing of my mother, fairly sure about my girlfriend. I don't fully know if my interaction with them led to a positive outcome in terms of my behavior, since I am a lot more careful around people than I would "naturally" be (I'm still not that careful), and this seems to be an hindrance rather than a plus when trying to build a career. I've also had ESI friends who tried to teach me how to be "ruthless" with people in order to exploit opportunities, again, I'm not sure how such advice has positively affected me. I feel the best when I do my own thing without anyone's influence (at least conscious).
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
i don't interact closely much with Ni egos but now i'm more sure about being ESI again because talking to an IEI last weekend it seems like...i think i have the Ni thing covered and then i'm humbled and surprised at how well they do it. and i wonder if/how it would affect me to let go of that and let somebody else deal with it more. i dunno if it would be good or bad. i'm not sure if it would even happen (that i'd be able to let go of it).
Does it have to be an exact match? I've gotten Si from my mother (SEI) and presumably Si + Te from my dad (delta ST).
An addendum: I have had two ESI bosses at work. In that case I could see how duality "worked" fairly well when when I compare the output of our working together to the output of them working with other people or me working with other people. They were very organized, punctual and fair, I was very forward, hard working and "innovative" (not much, but more than most). Those peculiarities didn't necessarily work well with other people because they were sometimes perceived as pessimistic and fastidious and I was sometimes perceived as brash and not detail oriented.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
esi mother
Duality is the 'cosmopolitan article' of socionics.
I recommend the following as threads to match the level of hysteria it generates in the minds of those who lack theoretical boundaries:
a) How to find your dual and dualise in 14 easy steps
b) Breaking up with a dual and ways to cope
c) 16 celebrity dual couples
Omg, don't forget to warn people against potential danger and mention that apparently some people suffer heavy trauma and cannot cope if they date duals and then break up. Research and make stats about how many celebrities have gone crazy because of such a fulfilling and irreplaceable experience. Ignore the contradiction in what socionics says.
i carry my dual with me (i carry it in
my heart) i am never without it (anywhere
i go you go, my dual; and whatever is done
by only me is your doing,my dual)
i fear
no fate (for you are my fate,my dual) i want
no world (for beautiful you are my world, my dual)
and it’s you are whatever a moon has always meant
and whatever a sun will always sing is you
here is the deepest secret nobody knows
(here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud
and the sky of the sky of a tree called life; which grows
higher than soul can hope or mind can hide)
and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart
i carry my dual (i carry it in my heart)
ORIGINAL
Self dualization is what's up...
My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical. C.G. Jung
i'm not that well in touch with my extroverted side but other than that i'm pretty balanced in both strengths and values.
Last edited by krieger; 05-05-2014 at 06:56 PM.
I guarantee you that every single interpersonal problem you've ever experienced can be explained via intertype relations.
1. Know what to look for.
2. Find your dual.
That's it.
If the person is actually your dual, this won't happen.
I think the odds of celebrities "dualing it up" are about the same as they are for regular folk: "accidental duality" is a rare phenomenon. Just because people appear to get along, it doesn't necessarily mean they're duals.
Sure thing Maritsa.
Y'know, even though I question her self-typing and disagree with many of her other typings, she at least had the good sense to type Novak Djokovic as SLI; he's actually LSE, but at least she sees his Delta ST-ness, and that tells me she has better insight into peoples' character than most of the asshats on this forum.
That's like saying that frying pans are better at chopping down trees than rubber bands because they break less often...
I'm not sure that infidelity is accounted for in socionics.
Easy Day
My father is LSE and mother is SLE, so I'm not isure if whatever I have been "dualized" growing up has been counterproductive. I also have an LSE sister but not close in age. Looking back, I always wanted to be friends with LSE kinds of people, and I admired these people from afar. This year, I had the privilege of being closer to some LSEs and it is amazing and truly different than any other relationships I had with other types. I enjoy their company so much.
Yet there are some downsides, one being that they are not intuitive and I have to work on trusting in myself and my intuition more. Otherwise petty fights can turn into war/ threats. Such as me not beleving they care, etc. It is a a lot of work on my self esteem.
Another thing is the feeling of being bored and feeling boring. Because with other types, there is so much more drama and misunderstanding of the other's way of communication. But t is a nice (Awesome) break.
There is nothing like a dual
I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in and the West in general into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
In theory that sounds nice. In reality relationships are not perfect and require some work, to keep them going, regardless of personality types, even the best relationships end for various reasons. Living with someone takes cooperation and sometimes comprise which is hard for a non-compromising type. To me this sounds like an idealized soulmate concept that the relationship won't break up. In real life soulmates break up too. According to socionics I have been in relationships with what can be considered a dual and we broke up. I have broke up with soulmates too. Mutual break ups usually because we no longer had anything in common. If you have found a way to do this though I am all for hearing the methods.
My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical. C.G. Jung
First and most importantly:
Secondly:Positivist types will critically analyze the information that they have received, but the manner in which they relay their criticisms differs from Negativist types. Positivist types are more inclined to voice affirmative statements designed to point out contradictions, or depict the topics in an ironic or absurdist light in order to demonstrate their disbelief or critique something that they've found to be untrue; while criticisms delivered by Negativist types contains a higher proportion of negating, eliminating, or invalidating statements and propositions. Negativists are as if excluding, "cutting off", or barring information (or people) that they've found to be lacking by their standards.
- ILE: Logic of isomorphism, analogies, transfer of structures from one area to another. Lets denote this logic function with sign of identity: =
Probably not the actual act of infidelity, but I'll bet it can identify certain communicative barriers that led to the demise of your relationship.
Honestly, this is the kind of thinking that perpetuates bad relationships. Instead of saying "this just isn't gonna work" or "they're just not for me", we say "we can make this work" and "we just need to try harder".
Sorry, I guess it's just in my nature:
Incurable romantic: inclined to idealize people and relationships. Dreams of harmony and perfection.
Only when people who think they're soulmates aren't really soulmates (I'd rather we say "perfect match" or "dual" instead of "soulmate").
1. Know what to look for.
2. Find it.
I prefer falling over looking. I'm clumsy that way.
My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical. C.G. Jung
I'm more interested in who you're trying to convince, really. Dogma is generally self-serving. Do you have high hopes for duality when you someday find it or are you defending a relationship you're currently in?
Easy Day
yes.
those who have been dualized, what effect did it have on you?
@FDG @Narc @FoxOnStilts
You.
It's not dogma, it's truth.
I don't want to say "hopes" because it sounds uncertain, but sure.
Definitely not, if I was in a bad relationship I wouldn't be in it.
You can do both.
Made it much harder to type myself.
The intuition and sensing gap seems to be bridged, though some Socionics savvy people claim they can't see Fi in me at all. On the other hand, people often feel like they can share their deep troubles with me early on, so there's that. I imagine that if all four aspects (logic, ethics, intuition and sensing) are given a boost, the individual will seem less defined to others. Maybe less about them will stand out too if they're not using their base and creative so liberally.
You're going to have a very difficult time of it. There are tons of factors that can influence our interpersonal relationships that socionics simply doesn't codify. Geographic distance is one that I'm sure has affected quite a few people on this forum. Physical attraction has plenty of scholarly research to back up its interpersonal influence. Even less obvious things like personal or cultural values. It's hard to imagine a situation where a member of the westboro baptist church would ever entertain being in a relationship with an militaristic atheist just because they were both duals. An even uglier issue to mention is racism and how that can effect interpersonal decisions. Which socionics intertype covers beating another person to the ground because of the color of their skin?
Ageism, alcoholism, classism, rape, take your pick.
Easy Day
I donīt know if it had a big effect. As I mentioned, I have learnt from my girlfriend how to be more tactful and patient; thatīs however not necessarily a strong point for a ExTx male, sometimes I obtain much better real-life outcomes when Iīm brash and firm. However, I do think that *society* benefits more from my patient-and-more-tactful version as opposed to the brash and firm one.
I do have learnt how to be more precise in my work, but I donīt know if itīs a byproduct of age and experience or her influence.
I canītīreally discern my motherīs influence because I do not know a counterfactual "me" that wasnīt affected by his interaction with her.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I don't really feel as if I've become dualized. I still feel like the same person I've always been. Assuming for a moment and going back to an old self-typing of mine, I've been around SEEs quite a bit in the past. It often didn't work out because I was an ass or because the SEE was playing some immature game of breaking hearts. I don't think that duality changes a person. It just helps someone cope better with life and learn how to deal better with other people. Perhaps this is because I haven't had a long-term romantic dual relationship. I think that as a result of hanging out with SEEs and Fi types in general, I've learned an enormous amount of information concerning human interaction and how to be desirable to other people for friendship and such. This skill that I've learned, while it has become instinctive to some degree, is still a choice and not an essential alteration of my own character. Like FDG mentioned, one thing I have learned from them is the capacity to employ tact when it's useful, but they have also emphasized the point that it doesn't really need to be sincere: I don't have to agree with someone or even like them to be tactful around someone I despise. Sometimes it's just a useful skill to have that makes my life easier and less stressful because I don't have to deal with drama. Unlike FDG's post, patience has never been something they emphasized with me. I've always been patient. If anything, do it now has been their advice.
It's interesting to notice how much my life has changed and opened up since knowing some few key SEEs. It's always important to know that some people are just assholes and will mistreat anyone they come across, and that includes duals.
In some ways, the changes have been slow and subtle. I've felt myself stuck in a rut for several years now, and an SEE has helped me break out of it. The best piece of advice she ever gave me was that I shouldn't expect to figure everything out in advance, and that sometimes I simply had to act without knowledge and the details would fall into place. All of a sudden, I'm going back to school and ditching a bunch of menial jobs that had been hell for me. And having a blast at the same time. That one simple thing was all it took.
Btw, that bs I wrote before about istjs being my duals.... Yeah. I was drunk that night. Lol. Damn tequila.
I think I come off as balanced in some ways despite not being what people consider healthy. I'm not an obvious Ne-dom by any means. I can focus on minor details, take care of myself and chores without much fuss, my main hobby is sensory, etc. Te is the function that I seem to lack/rarely get info from in my environment.
Dude, come on. You're ESI as it gets, and there ain't nothing wrong with it.
I've been married to an SLI for like 15 or 16 years or something. I have some SLI friends as well, but the SLI I hang out with the most is my husband.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
I'm nice and know how to talk to people.
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