Is it my imagination or are there a lot of Betas hanging out in Delta lately?
Uh... Whats with all the Betas?
Is it my imagination or are there a lot of Betas hanging out in Delta lately?
Topaz
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
Originally Posted by Topaz
Don't worry - in 3 weeks they'll all be Delta again.
SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype
We are getting our own back...
If anyone comes back to Delta it will be as a secret mole. Or not. You'll never know for sure.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
.
Hey, it's just a little intra-quadra socialising! We should be joyous that we've seen the day our two sides can overcome our differences and like, just hang and be chill, you know? lol as chill as Beta gets anyway!
<3
(
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3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp
It's the extermination campaign.
Why, are the Betas attempting massive suicide?
Topaz
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
lol get in the fire pit, bitch.
oops
you are a nazi, arent you? Its starting to make sense.
Topaz
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
Only in the meta sense of the word. I ain't got nothing on the jews!
I dont understand what you mean. Could you elaborate?
Topaz
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
I have the same beta-esque attitude that people commonly associate with ******'s regime, but I have no real prejudicial beliefs towards any race/religion, despite some caustic humor, lol.
LokiVanguard, jessica129 and Winterpark are probably Ti/Fe.
We've made a few successful conversions with JuJu, idolatrie and unefille, all of whom are both intelligent and mature enough to make the change to Beta. Why these so-called "ISTP"s are being so stubborn I couldn't tell you. It's a shame they have to hide where their true sentiments lie. Either that, or they misunderstand socionics, which is fair enough. They'll be educated over time.
I highly doubt any of these people are beta.
edit: I was referring to the ISTps.
Last edited by strrrng; 10-06-2008 at 02:40 AM.
The lesson Topaz draws to our attention is that if you mention something it will become more prevalent; making a thread about why there are so many betas has only drawn more beta input. The technique at hand here is good to keep in mind for other general uses.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Add it to the Ti rulebook, lol.
Based on his personal life and habits I think ****** is IEE, and I just posted a comprehensive argument for it on wikisocion with reference to all 15 dichotomies. There was a lot of uproar over this, probably from Deltas.
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...e=Adolf_******
lol
You thinking ****** is ENFp is perfect proof of why the reinin dichotomies suck, or at least shouldn't be prioritized above FUNCTIONAL USAGE (you know, that thing that socionics was founded on?), due to the confusing contextual factors and distortion of semantics.
I would consider ****** IEE even without Reinin.
As a tactician, ****** has always been afraid of the irrevocability of so-called final decisions. He never had at any moment a goal that he could state precisely or a real and clear strategy revealing what his intentions were. To fully understand ******, one must not forget that he took his dreams for plain reality. He was inaccessible to doubts or advice to show restrain or moderation. This raw power of imagination and desire was never weakened during the war, even when events took a turn for the worse. He had only visions and the power allowing him to grasp the possibilities offered by all kinds of situations, of which he would take advantage swiftly and forcibly.
In terms of man-management, ****** was - astonishingly enough - a very considerate boss. He was adored by those who worked closest with him. He remembered their names and birthdays, visited them when they were ill, and they repaid him with lifetime devotion, even after his crimes became generally known.
Humanitarian -
People showed him respect because he had succeeded in reestablishing law and order and reducing unemployment.
Infantile -
After a time, those who called themselves his advisors became afraid of the excesses of his government and of its risky policies. One can talk of childishness and infantilism regarding his fits of passion, that even his generals and Feld-Marshalls feared, to the point of becoming trembling and insignificant puppets before him.
*If you read the Reinin arguments, you will see that they also point to specific IM elements (see wikisocion talk page); however, I did not think it would be as appropriate to split the information into functions when they more clearly delineated traits
If his goals couldn't be stated precisely, this points to Ni, not Ne. Ne is object-based, so you're not very likely to have trouble articulating the insights. And don't you know that Ni is dynamic, meaning that it is constantly changing, and given that it works with internal fields, this is what would cause someone to seem uncertain of their plans. Ni valuers have described this phenomenon countless times. And taking your dreams for plain reality is a classic beta attitude. He had visions and occupied power by INFLUENCING THE MINDS AND HEARTS OF THE PUBLIC, not grasping possibilities from multiple situations. Honestly, what the hell is this shit?
As a tactician, ****** has always been afraid of the irrevocability of so-called final decisions. He never had at any moment a goal that he could state precisely or a real and clear strategy revealing what his intentions were. To fully understand ******, one must not forget that he took his dreams for plain reality. He was inaccessible to doubts or advice to show restrain or moderation. This raw power of imagination and desire was never weakened during the war, even when events took a turn for the worse. He had only visions and the power allowing him to grasp the possibilities offered by all kinds of situations, of which he would take advantage swiftly and forcibly.
Um, wow, learn functions. These petty behaviors are stupid stereotypes of Fi, not a mode of information processing, lol.
In terms of man-management, ****** was - astonishingly enough - a very considerate boss. He was adored by those who worked closest with him. He remembered their names and birthdays, visited them when they were ill, and they repaid him with lifetime devotion, even after his crimes became generally known.
lol, perfect example of reinin dichotomy contextual distortion. And you're Ne polr, lol?Humanitarian -
People showed him respect because he had succeeded in reestablishing law and order and reducing unemployment.
Wow, this is so horribly retarded I don't know what to say. Relating some insipid "erotic attitude" to how he went about his government policies and fits of passion? He was a bi-polar schzophrenic psycho fucker, give me a break.Infantile -
After a time, those who called themselves his advisors became afraid of the excesses of his government and of its risky policies. One can talk of childishness and infantilism regarding his fits of passion, that even his generals and Feld-Marshalls feared, to the point of becoming trembling and insignificant puppets before him.
Yeah, whatever you say, lol.*If you read the Reinin arguments, you will see that they also point to specific IM elements (see wikisocion talk page); however, I did not think it would be as appropriate to split the information into functions when they more clearly delineated traits
Then you don't understand the functions.I would consider ****** IEE even without Reinin.
I am not using semantic arguments, you are. Wanting to influence the hearts and minds of the public is feeling not intuition, and being unsure of goals actually points to being tactical rather than strategic (also not intuition and not exclusive to Ni - if anything I would actually expect Ni to be more focused on decisive goals in the future than on judicious possibilities in the present). The other arguments you have made are not specific to Ni or Beta, just intuition and feeling. The Fi arguments are not stereotypes, and they are pretty typical of descriptions of ****** and of Fi-valuing (though not all Fi-valuing has to be expressed this way). If you want a stronger case for Fi then read the feeling, static, and serious arguments on the wikisocion page as there is no way that he is Fe-valuing. Making the leap that I would type someone a certain way for not understanding the functions is despicable reasoning on your part. If you want a better understanding of his infantilism then read the extroverted, emotivist, and tactical sections. And if you want to argue that he was not NF, go ahead my friend, but your arguments fall on deaf ears.
It's because Deltas got things Betas want. Now if Betas also had something to offer in return. Not that they don't have anything to offer, but typically they are things Deltas have no need of...
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
Having the natural propensity for influencing the emotions of other people is the cardinal trait of ENFjs. And I wasn't even referring to how certain one is of their goals; I was pointing out how Ni is much less defined and easily articulated than Ne, and that Ni peoples' visions/ideas tend to have that wavering quality. No, those traits you listed were Fi stereotypes and they shed no light on the actual cognitive process that occurs when that function is used. And don't bother referencing me to your "sources"; I am only interested in your arguments. And it was by no means a leap on my part to say that you didn't understand the functions. I didn't say that you didn't understand the function preemptively; I read your analysis and then educed that you didn't understand them. And I don't want to argue that he isn't NF, lol wtf; he is Ni-ENFj. Period. You're going against one of the core typings here, so if you want to convince me or anyone else on this forum, you're gonna have to provide a better functional analysis and stop using reinin dichotomies to conflate definitions.
I don't want shit from delta, lol.It's because Deltas got things Betas want. Now if Betas also had something to offer in return. Not that they don't have anything to offer, but typically they are things Deltas have no need of...
Not that I'm claiming to be Beta, but Gamma has been side-tracked lately anyway, by Beta's no less....okay and one renegade ESFp who seems to get on with Beta PRETTY welllll....
:wink:
SEE Unknown Subtype
6w7 sx/so
[21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
[21:29] hitta: and not dying
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Yes you do! Admit it!
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
This is called emotion-creating (SEI, LII, LSI, IEI, SEE, LIE, LSE, IEE), which EIE is not. EIEs specialize in understanding the emotions of others, not influencing them, so you may want to reconsider your core typing. Your other arguments are ambiguous and subjective.
Are you kidding me? There is no reason why ENFj's aren't skilled at influencing others' emotions, aside from your shit reinin dichotomy fabrications. And if ENFj's are adept at understanding the emotions of others, doesn't it follow that they would be adept at influencing them, if they chose to? Yes, it does. Do you even understand functions? Have you read any of the type profiles? hmm...maybe if you continue with this idiocy I will paste some stuff from ENFj descriptions to show you you're wrong. And beyond that, denying the fact that Fe deals with not only understanding but influencing the emotions of others is abjectly stupid. Read augusta's functional definitions on Rick's site, read the definitions on the wiki. You won't find one credible source that has said Fe isn't about both of those things. Your position is laughable.
Ok, give me some aesthetic appreciation and I'll give you some vision.
I think you have some things backwards thar.....>_>
SEE Unknown Subtype
6w7 sx/so
[21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
[21:29] hitta: and not dying
.
While you're @ it, explain this:Are you kidding me? There is no reason why ENFj's aren't skilled at influencing others' emotions, aside from your shit reinin dichotomy fabrications. And if ENFj's are adept at understanding the emotions of others, doesn't it follow that they would be adept at influencing them, if they chose to? Yes, it does. Do you even understand functions? Have you read any of the type profiles? hmm...maybe if you continue with this idiocy I will paste some stuff from ENFj descriptions to show you you're wrong. And beyond that, denying the fact that Fe deals with not only understanding but influencing the emotions of others is abjectly stupid. Read augusta's functional definitions on Rick's site, read the definitions on the wiki. You won't find one credible source that has said Fe isn't about both of those things. Your position is laughable.
Ok, give me some aesthetic appreciation and I'll give you some vision.
ENFjs enjoy the company of people who give off plenty of positive emotions. They like and in fact need to laugh in order to discharge the emotional energy that accumulates within. Their own emotions are of a dramatic nature, which they try hard to control. Sometimes, however, ENFjs can unexpectedly explode attracting unwanted attention to themselves.
http://www.socionics.com/prof/enfj.htm
unefille gives this vibe off sometimes, and so did my high school sweetheart (who is a a core EIE)http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p..._and_emotivist
lol, don't try to dupe me with cherry-picked descriptions from that deluded piece of shit ganin's site. You realize that a description can say anything, right? It's the basis of its assertion that matters. Which is why I asked you to quote from sites like rick's or the wiki. But, since you want to be a fucker about it, I'll quote some legit sources for you.
durr
durrThe individual is keenly aware of emotions being displayed around him and responds to them immediately, without particularly thinking about it. Additionally, the individual easily grasps what drives people, how engaged they are in any particular activity and why. Excitement and passion contrast with boredom, jadedness, and disconnection.
He perceives reality primarily through the prism of the external emotional atmosphere around him, mainly but not exclusively from the other people present. For instance, the "vibe" given off by a particular place, landscape, work of art, movie etc will also be registered as very significant for him. He will be proactive about steering the emotional flow in the direction he himself considers suitable (or even vital) to a given situation. He may, for example, try to "liven up" the atmosphere with jokes if he sees that people are too gloomy or, conversely, to get people to be serious and concentrated if they are too carefree during a crisis situation. He tries to rely on external expressions as an indicator of inner state, and to make his own as harmonious as possible. He is intrigued by people who don't let all their attitudes and emotions out immediately when they feel them, they (usually introverted logicals) make him want to explore the person more deeply, through either emotional button-pushing or conversational inquiry. IxTjs will respond well to this inquiry, IxTps poorly.
And what did good old adolf do? *burp*EIEs are naturally animate and passionate and are skilled at generating liveliness and excitement. They believe that people need to be emotionally involved in life, not distant or indifferent to the important things that are happening.
A Te polr just Te'd you up the ass, bitch.
Well, you missed this (I color coded it to help you see the difference):
Green - perceiving emotions; Red - creating emotions
as a base (1st) function (ESE and EIE)
The individual is keenly aware of emotions being displayed around him and responds to them immediately, without particularly thinking about it. Additionally, the individual easily grasps what drives people, how engaged they are in any particular activity and why. Excitement and passion contrast with boredom, jadedness, and disconnection.
He perceives reality primarily through the prism of the external emotional atmosphere around him, mainly but not exclusively from the other people present. For instance, the "vibe" given off by a particular place, landscape, work of art, movie etc will also be registered as very significant for him.
He will be proactive about steering the emotional flow in the direction he himself considers suitable (or even vital) to a given situation. He may, for example, try to "liven up" the atmosphere with jokes if he sees that people are too gloomy or, conversely, to get people to be serious and concentratedif they are too carefree during a crisis situation. He tries to rely on external expressions as an indicator of inner state, and to make his own as harmonious as possible.
He is intrigued by people who don't let all their attitudes and emotions out immediately when they feel them, they (usually introverted logicals) make him want to explore the person more deeply, through either emotional button-pushing or conversational inquiry. IxTjs will respond well to this inquiry, IxTps poorly.
The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him. A positive emotional atmophere is essential for his sense of well being and inner peace, and he either tries to promote it himself by directly influencing it around him, or by simply moving away from the environment or the people causing a negative emotional environment in his view. For the SEI, this takes an on-the-spot aspect and is reflected in cracking jokes, trying to make people laugh, or simply moving away from people he perceives as affecting him negatively. For the IEI, this takes a longer-term perspective; so the focus, rather than being on the immediate emotional environment, is on the perceived longer-term emotional state of others towards the individual, and is reflected in trying to be on good terms with those he interacts with or seeking distance or protection from, or "preventively" attacking, those he sees as irremediably hostile emotionally.
No one said that constructivists cannot inspire emotions, but the emphasis for the first description was in recognizing emotions and the basis in the second was in producing them. F-leading will try to understand someone even if they do not like them, but will not try to change them. F-creative will try to change them or go somewhere else. If you read the feeling section (not that I think you will) you will notice in the first paragraph that ****** would leave whenever he felt that he was not accepted, and did so on many occasions. Emotion-creating and emotion-accepting are 2 different things. Since you are so keen on Augusta's model you should learn the difference.
As for Augusta, you yourself criticize her definitions constantly because she incorporated unvalued functions, and either way her description of Fi contains what makes ****** unique among other charismatic leaders (which was mostly a press image and otherwise fear-controlled @ the higher levels; most accounts say that ****** himself was not particularly convincing or even sociable, just powerful, and his understanding of others during direct interactions often seemed too superficial, self-absorbed, and impersonal for an EIE - if you read his personal psychological profile and witness accounts even without the Reinin labels this will be immediately obvious):
Such an individual perceives information about this facet of objective reality the individual perceives as a need for certain objects that satisfy physical wishes/desires, psychological or spiritual desires, and a need for other people — in other words, a person's wishes/desires and interests that are directed toward animate and inanimate objects. This includes feelings of like and dislike, love and hatred, the desire to obtain some thing/object, etc., and greed or the absense of greed. The higher feelings of this kind can be called ethical, because relationships between people's needs are mainly regulated by ethical normals.
Last edited by Nexus; 10-05-2008 at 09:12 PM.
Good call UDP. I was hoping to bring the swelling to a head and draw out all the puss. I leave for a few hours and come back to WW III!!!! This time we've got two ******s! I guess these Betas just might be on a suicidal campaign. (come to think of it ****** did kill himself)...... Carry on Betas.
Topaz
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
yeah right, ****** was IEE...like you! =P
Last edited by Nexus; 10-05-2008 at 11:14 PM.
Ezra, I'm asking you honestly what type in Beta I could possibly fit into. It makes no sense whatsoever. Had you actually met me in real life and not based it on my online persona, it wouldn't even be a question. SLE? It's so completely laughable and so is LSI. Frankly, I'm getting irritated by this. You're assuming I know nothing. You can have doubts about my type, that's fine, but don't be an ass about it and imply we're dumb or ignorant ...you insist on doing this..I'm not sure you realize you're being offensive but you are. I don't constantly say someone is such-and-such type because 1) It's none of my business 2) They know themselves more than I know them 3) It's ignorant.
You must realize that Ezra is in the upper 10% of the human race in terms of ability, and that he's only thinking for you because he carez.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Your notion is simply retarded. Even a general understanding of quadras values and themes would clearly illustrate that ****** is ENFj. For a supposed Ne polr, you sure are good at shifting contexts, and coming up with theories which you conflate with other theories.
HOW THE FUCK IS ****** Si DUAL-SEEKING, DOUCHE BAG?
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
no need to yell Allie.
@Strrrng: What virtuous qualities do you see in the Nazi Regime that you think embodies you attitude and that of the rest of Beta?
Topaz
The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.
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