SEIs-ISFps, come hither - part 2

[Rubicon]

Don't worry - different topic - no rabblerousing with this one. :-p

Just wanted to know ... how would you describe your Si? In terms of your default mode of operating, just going about your day-to-day life .... Does your awareness of things around you ever get on your nerves? I mean do you ever wish you could turn that awareness off so you can better focus on feelings/ thoughts? What sort of things (in a generic sense) run through your mind when you're walking down the street, just looking at things around you?

[Rubicon]

Also - how much do you relate to this excerpt (from Rick's Fe description)?

... said to be highly aware of (have control over) their external self-expression. They are able to consciously stick out in the way they say things or express their internal state and feel confident drawing attention to their extraverted ethics, whether or not it matches the sentiments of the group at the moment. They are comfortable being more animated than others in a situation or displaying emotions that don't fit in with those of other people. They use their own expressiveness to guide other people's internal experiences and help them experience a wider range of passions and more intense feelings.

[diljs]

...subscribed

[redbaron]

Also - how much do you relate to this excerpt (from Rick's Fe description)?

... said to be highly aware of (have control over) their external self-expression. They are able to consciously stick out in the way they say things or express their internal state and feel confident drawing attention to their extraverted ethics, whether or not it matches the sentiments of the group at the moment. They are comfortable being more animated than others in a situation or displaying emotions that don't fit in with those of other people. They use their own expressiveness to guide other people's internal experiences and help them experience a wider range of passions and more intense feelings.

well of course I'm not SEI but I was pretty close with an SEI and I can tell you that he has an entire vocabulary of non-verbal communication that he quite consciously uses to communicate on a regular basis. He uses subtle facial expressions and even body positioning in lieu of words, to help others know where the relationship stands and to create the emotional atmosphere.

In thinking about it, I get tired of this after awhile. It's so... calculating or something. Precise. Now maybe I do the same thing, I don't know. But I don't think I do it so consciously. More and more I'm wondering if I don't prefer thinking types. *sigh* I spent some time around an ESFp this weekend and it was fun but, tiring. I like steady emotions around me so that *I* can be the one to get all riled up about stuff. I don't want to have to ride the emotions of others.

okay, sorry to derail this thread. I'm done.

[Rubicon]

well of course I'm not SEI but I was pretty close with an SEI and I can tell you that he has an entire vocabulary of non-verbal communication that he quite consciously uses to communicate on a regular basis. He uses subtle facial expressions and even body positioning in lieu of words, to help others know where the relationship stands and to create the emotional atmosphere.

In thinking about it, I get tired of this after awhile. It's so... calculating or something. Precise.

The facial expressions etc are calculating? Or you mean just the manipulation of the atmosphere in general?

[redbaron]

The facial expressions etc are calculating? Or you mean just the manipulation of the atmosphere in general?

I mean the manipulation of the atmosphere in general. He intends for the emotional atmosphere he's creating to communicate something.

errr, maybe it's just this specific situation. but in any case, I do think SEIs are good at doing that, if they choose to.

[Rubicon]

I mean the manipulation of the atmosphere in general. He intends for the emotional atmosphere he's creating to communicate something.

errr, maybe it's just this specific situation. but in any case, I do think SEIs are good at doing that, if they choose to.

Would you mind giving an example of the type of emotional atmosphere he might create? I'm not sure what you mean by the atmosphere communicating something that (assumedly) his words/gestures don't.

[redbaron]

Would you mind giving an example of the type of emotional atmosphere he might create? I'm not sure what you mean by the atmosphere communicating something that (assumedly) his words/gestures don't.

Maybe I misspoke. I just meant that his gestures and body language are communicating what he wants me to know, thus creating an atmosphere between the two of us. Not necessarily among everyone in the room. Example: if he removes himself from the group, sits alone with a stoic expression on his face, I know he doesn't feel like talking and doesn't want to be approached. I wouldn't draw those conclusions with anyone else necessarily. But it's clear that that's what he wants from me, based on those signals. Now maybe it's only clear to me because I know him so well. If, on the other hand, he smiles with raised eyebrows and stands slightly away from me but with his body opened out a bit towards me, I know that he's saying it's okay to come talk. And in fact that he probably wants me to talk to him. If everyone else is laughing and joking, he may intentionally stand away from the group if he's not feeling happy or if he's tired. But if he joins in with the laughing and joking yet still ignores me, that tells me that he's feeling good in general but doesn't necessarily want to talk to me. I know I'm reading a lot into what he does, but I also know from experience that that's how he communicates. I believe that he knows exactly what he's doing and how it comes across. And he knows I'll read him right. And I do.

So I didn't mean to say that he created an emotional atmosphere for everyone else, only that it's very clear to me what the atmosphere is between the two of us, based on his body language and facial expressions and even his proximity to me. Me, I'm always cheery towards everyone, him included. I don't approach him unless I get the "signal" that he wants me to. It's really weird! Okay, this is just a bad example due to our strange circumstances. You can forget everything I said. I don't know if other SEIs do this or not. It may be just our stilted communication patterns.

[Rubicon]

Maybe I misspoke. I just meant that his gestures and body language are communicating what he wants me to know, thus creating an atmosphere between the two of us. Not necessarily among everyone in the room. Example: if he removes himself from the group, sits alone with a stoic expression on his face, I know he doesn't feel like talking and doesn't want to be approached. I wouldn't draw those conclusions with anyone else necessarily. But it's clear that that's what he wants from me, based on those signals. Now maybe it's only clear to me because I know him so well. If, on the other hand, he smiles with raised eyebrows and stands slightly away from me but with his body opened out a bit towards me, I know that he's saying it's okay to come talk. And in fact that he probably wants me to talk to him. If everyone else is laughing and joking, he may intentionally stand away from the group if he's not feeling happy or if he's tired. But if he joins in with the laughing and joking yet still ignores me, that tells me that he's feeling good in general but doesn't necessarily want to talk to me. I know I'm reading a lot into what he does, but I also know from experience that that's how he communicates. I believe that he knows exactly what he's doing and how it comes across. And he knows I'll read him right. And I do.

Oh okay - I see what you mean. I do those sorts of things, but I wouldn't think of them as calculating. They're a more natural and honest form of communication for me than speaking. For example, if I went off and sat alone somewhere, that would be because I felt like being alone (c: ... but if someone approached me, then I'd try to be friendly though I'm probably not in the mood. I don't see why you view that sort of thing as being calculating - it seems pretty much the opposite to me. I think you may view us as being more complex than we are. (c: Admittedly, that sort of hot and cold behaviour I wouldn't exhibit with people I have a comfortable, stable relationship with ... but when I do, it's because my feelings are honestly hot, then cold - so I'm showing that. lol The extent of my strategy in situations like that is "Oh no - I was too friendly with him - now he probably thinks blah blah, so I'll try to pull back next time" - it's like an interaction by interaction thing - certainly not some overriding strategy I've mapped out. I pretty much just take it as it comes, and any vague plans I have (like resolving to pull back or whatever) usually fly out the window when we're actually there together anyway lol - I can't help it - and I just go by feel. He's too friendly or something (c: - so I'm a bit distant. He's a bit distant, so I'm more friendly. It's just about keeping the relationship balanced. Maybe there's some sort of strategy to that behaviour ... but it's pretty innate and basic IMO.

[redbaron]

Oh okay - I see what you mean. I do those sorts of things, but I wouldn't think of them as calculating. They're a more natural and honest form of communication for me than speaking. For example, if I went off and sat alone somewhere, that would be because I felt like being alone (c: ... but if someone approached me, then I'd try to be friendly though I'm probably not in the mood. I don't see why you view that sort of thing as being calculating - it seems pretty much the opposite to me. I think you may view us as being more complex than we are. (c: Admittedly, that sort of hot and cold behaviour I wouldn't exhibit with people I have a comfortable, stable relationship with ... but when I do, it's because my feelings are honestly hot, then cold - so I'm showing that. lol The extent of my strategy in situations like that is "Oh no - I was too friendly with him - now he probably thinks blah blah, so I'll try to pull back next time" - it's like an interaction by interaction thing - certainly not some overriding strategy I've mapped out. I pretty much just take it as it comes, and any vague plans I have (like resolving to pull back or whatever) usually fly out the window when we're actually there together anyway lol - I can't help it - and I just go by feel. He's too friendly or something (c: - so I'm a bit distant. He's a bit distant, so I'm more friendly. It's just about keeping the relationship balanced. Maybe there's some sort of strategy to that behaviour ... but it's pretty innate and basic IMO.

I'm not sure he's consciously mapped it out, no. But I think he's really aware of, and does use his non-verbal communication to adjust the emotional atmosphere between us. I guess you said it better than I did--it's about keeping the relationship balanced. It's maybe calculating in the sense that he knows I'm going to stay away if he does X, therefore he will do X if he feels like previously I had been too friendly with him. Or whatever. anyway, the whole thing is annoying. what, I was "too friendly" last time so you're going to ignore me today? WHATEVER. I know it's his way of coping but it feels like emotional ping-pong. I'm beginning to prefer my SLE friend or just ANYone who's willing to be more consistent with me.

[Rubicon]

I'm not sure he's consciously mapped it out, no. But I think he's really aware of, and does use his non-verbal communication to adjust the emotional atmosphere between us. I guess you said it better than I did--it's about keeping the relationship balanced. It's maybe calculating in the sense that he knows I'm going to stay away if he does X, therefore he will do X if he feels like previously I had been too friendly with him. Or whatever. anyway, the whole thing is annoying. what, I was "too friendly" last time so you're going to ignore me today? WHATEVER. I know it's his way of coping but it feels like emotional ping-pong. I'm beginning to prefer my SLE friend or just ANYone who's willing to be more consistent with me.

Emotional ping-pong. Meh.

[redbaron]

Emotional ping-pong. Meh.

I love your new avatar! Makes me want to grab an apple and do some decorative peels.

[Rubicon]

I love your new avatar! Makes me want to grab an apple and do some decorative peels.

[redbaron]

haha that's great!

[calenwen]

I don't know how much this relates, but I'll use nonverbal communication and facial expressions in lieu of words frequently. For example, if I'm confused about something I probably won't immediately say "Help. I'm confused" - I'd be more likely to look at someone and shrug with a bewildered look on my face. It's not like I plan on doing this either, but it is a pattern that I have noticed in my behavior.

[Rubicon]

I don't know how much this relates, but I'll use nonverbal communication and facial expressions in lieu of words frequently. For example, if I'm confused about something I probably won't immediately say "Help. I'm confused" - I'd be more likely to look at someone and shrug with a bewildered look on my face. It's not like I plan on doing this either, but it is a pattern that I have noticed in my behavior.

Yeah, me too. (c:

So do you relate to what I wrote about the physical awareness getting on your nerves?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[calenwen]

Yeah, me too. (c:

So do you relate to what I wrote about the physical awareness getting on your nerves?

Well, I never have trouble knowing what I'm thinking or feeling as a result of being "hyper aware" of my surroundings, but sometimes I do wish I could turn it down a bit because I have a LOT of trouble focusing on any one thing. It's kind of like all of my sensory receptors are all the way open all the time and sometimes it is too much for me to handle - especially if I'm simultaneously stressed - and my body will freak out and I'll have a mild panic attack. (Panic attacks do run in my family, too....)

[Rubicon]

Well, I never have trouble knowing what I'm thinking or feeling as a result of being "hyper aware" of my surroundings, but sometimes I do wish I could turn it down a bit because I have a LOT of trouble focusing on any one thing. It's kind of like all of my sensory receptors are all the way open all the time and sometimes it is too much for me to handle - especially if I'm simultaneously stressed - and my body will freak out and I'll have a mild panic attack. (Panic attacks do run in my family, too....)

Yeah exactly! I often feel like I can never really lose myself in something completely - because I can't shut down my sensory receptors or get them to focus just on the most pressing issue at hand. I'll be walking down the street, trying to come to a decision about something - but all this sensory data is being assimilated e.g. I can smell something - what is that smell - where's it coming from ... and I can't turn that stuff off ... even though it shouldn't be important to me right now because I just want to lose myself in contemplating the issue at hand. Like the other day I was walking around, thinking about something, and I doubt I was looking very happy - and I usually avoid looking at people when I'm upset ... but I couldn't help noticing that some people would smile at me when I went past. Lol - and they weren't sympathetic smiles, so I was confused - then I realised that I was wearing a tshirt with a big cartoon rabbit's head in a tophat on it. Erm yeah - and I went out to walk expressly because I was feeling upset and wanted to work through the issue in my head ... but meh - I can't help but notice other things, then wonder about them, until something else grabs my attention. So often, important decisions I make are arrived at mostly subconsciously - like that issue I was thinking about - even though I came back having thought mostly about how businessmen get a kick out of cartoon rabbits, I was feeling better about the issue and had somehow decided what to do. Lol @ my brain. Does that happen to you?

[calenwen]

Yeah exactly! I often feel like I can never really lose myself in something completely - because I can't shut down my sensory receptors or get them to focus just on the most pressing issue at hand. I'll be walking down the street, trying to come to a decision about something - but all this sensory data is being assimilated e.g. I can smell something - what is that smell - where's it coming from ... and I can't turn that stuff off ... even though it shouldn't be important to me right now because I just want to lose myself in contemplating the issue at hand. Like the other day I was walking around, thinking about something, and I doubt I was looking very happy - and I usually avoid looking at people when I'm upset ... but I couldn't help noticing that some people would smile at me when I went past. Lol - and they weren't sympathetic smiles, so I was confused - then I realised that I was wearing a tshirt with a big cartoon rabbit's head in a tophat on it. Erm yeah - and I went out to walk expressly because I was feeling upset and wanted to work through the issue in my head ... but meh - I can't help but notice other things, then wonder about them, until something else grabs my attention. So often, important decisions I make are arrived at mostly subconsciously - like that issue I was thinking about - even though I came back having thought mostly about how businessmen get a kick out of cartoon rabbits, I was feeling better about the issue and had somehow decided what to do. Lol @ my brain. Does that happen to you?

Heh, yeah. I find that it affects me the most when I am trying to study/do homework. I've found that the ONLY time I can focus is when I am playing the harp, and I think that's because it requires so much concentration (reading the music, looking at the strings, looking at the fingering, moving the pedals, turning pages, etc.) that my mind has no opportunity to waver or I will falter in my playing.
Making decisions? I can be rather horrible at making decisions. I break it down like this:
a) what is the most practical/cost effective option?
b) which is the easiest/most fun?
I will almost always go with (a) if the two conflict, unless (b) does not severely alter the course of (a) - e.g. it's not very expensive or impractical. But not all decisions involve issues of cost or pragmatism, and for those that don't I just go with my gut without giving it much thought.
Also, I have accepted that I will never be able to turn off my mind and the flow of usually useless information it insists on constantly intaking. I mean, sometimes it can be fun....

[calenwen]

Also, Jem, random question for you - Would you consider yourself to be an overachiever/very goal oriented?

[Rubicon]

Heh, yeah. I find that it affects me the most when I am trying to study/do homework. I've found that the ONLY time I can focus is when I am playing the harp, and I think that's because it requires so much concentration (reading the music, looking at the strings, looking at the fingering, moving the pedals, turning pages, etc.) that my mind has no opportunity to waver or I will falter in my playing.

Same with me and practicing. (c: Yeah, there's certainly enough to occupy your concentration. Except if I know a piece really well ... and start daydreaming ... and I find myself at the end of it without having taken note of the mistakes. Meh.

Also, I have accepted that I will never be able to turn off my mind and the flow of usually useless information it insists on constantly intaking. I mean, sometimes it can be fun....

Yeah. I guess.

Also, Jem, random question for you - Would you consider yourself to be an overachiever/very goal oriented?

Goal oriented? Yeah. I wouldn't say overachiever, though I'm a perfectionist. My goal is to overachieve, but I can't say I always do. :-/ Being a lazy perfectionist means I usually meet other people's expectations for me, but not my own. Meh. But my goals are pretty personal - e.g. my career goals - I don't tell anyone, because they're pretty ambitious and I don't want to have other people's expectations riding on my shoulders ... or people pressuring me. I want to be free to go at my own pace, or change my mind without feeling like I'm letting other people down.

[redbaron]

Same with me and practicing. (c: Yeah, there's certainly enough to occupy your concentration. Except if I know a piece really well ... and start daydreaming ... and I find myself at the end of it without having taken note of the mistakes. Meh. Yeah. I guess. Goal oriented? Yeah. I wouldn't say overachiever, though I'm a perfectionist. My goal is to overachieve, but I can't say I always do. :-/ Being a lazy perfectionist means I usually meet other people's expectations for me, but not my own. Meh. But my goals are pretty personal - e.g. my career goals - I don't tell anyone, because they're pretty ambitious and I don't want to have other people's expectations riding on my shoulders ... or people pressuring me. I want to be free to go at my own pace, or change my mind without feeling like I'm letting other people down.

Jem, you sound so much like my dad! Wow.

[diljs]

SEIs are a bunch of little overachievers when they can stop daydreaming, love it.

[redbaron]

SEIs are a bunch of little overachievers when they can stop daydreaming, love it.

yes, they're cute, that's for sure (no condescension intended). but watch out for the moodiness.

[Rubicon]

SEIs are a bunch of little overachievers when they can stop daydreaming, love it.

gah

[diljs]

yes, they're cute, that's for sure (no condescension intended). but watch out for the moodiness.

gah

I didn't mean it in a demeaning way, I totally take SEIs seriously.

Sorry Jem it's my Fi POLR acting up

[Rubicon]

I didn't mean it in a demeaning way, I totally take SEIs seriously.

Sorry Jem it's my Fi POLR acting up

socionics explains everything away

(c: <3

[redbaron]

socionics explains everything away

(c: <3

gotta love it! seriously tho, I really do love SEIs. they're almost just like me!

[Rubicon]

gotta love it! seriously tho, I really do love SEIs. they're almost just like me!

Seriously though, sitting down talking one-on-one with an SEI about something meaningful, do you not feel a significant difference communication-wise? I certainly do.

[redbaron]

Seriously though, sitting down talking one-on-one with an SEI about something meaningful, do you not feel a significant difference communication-wise? I certainly do.

significant difference how?

[Rubicon]

significant difference how?

Mainly a difference in time periods. lol I'm in the present, and the IEI is in the past or future. I guess that sounds stereotypical, but I feel that. This is not in casual conversation, but when talking about something we're both interested in. I get excited about something, but I'm still here, conveying my excitement to the person I'm talking with ... whereas the IEI gets excited about something and is transported into never-never land. :-P Talking with a faraway look on her face. And I'm sitting there thinking "Hello? Where'd you go? Can I come with you?" (c:

[redbaron]

Mainly a difference in time periods. lol I'm in the present, and the IEI is in the past or future. I guess that sounds stereotypical, but I feel that. This is not in casual conversation, but when talking about something we're both interested in. I get excited about something, but I'm still here, conveying my excitement to the person I'm talking with ... whereas the IEI gets excited about something and is transported into never-never land. :-P Talking with a faraway look on her face. And I'm sitting there thinking "Hello? Where'd you go? Can I come with you?" (c:

interesting! I have had conversations with my SEI friend where I was speculating on the future (of my children) and he was like "huh?" but for the most part, I like how the SEI keeps ME in the present. It's easier for me to enjoy life when I'm with S-types, for sure the irrational ones. the rationals are too focused on tasks and following rules and whatnot. Plus this particular SEI LOVES to talk about the past. He likes recounting stories from his childhood and growing up years. it's really cute.

[calenwen]

Same with me and practicing. (c: Yeah, there's certainly enough to occupy your concentration. Except if I know a piece really well ... and start daydreaming ... and I find myself at the end of it without having taken note of the mistakes. Meh. Yeah. I guess. Goal oriented? Yeah. I wouldn't say overachiever, though I'm a perfectionist. My goal is to overachieve, but I can't say I always do. :-/ Being a lazy perfectionist means I usually meet other people's expectations for me, but not my own. Meh. But my goals are pretty personal - e.g. my career goals - I don't tell anyone, because they're pretty ambitious and I don't want to have other people's expectations riding on my shoulders ... or people pressuring me. I want to be free to go at my own pace, or change my mind without feeling like I'm letting other people down.

Yes! I do my best daydreaming when playing... Happy times. Peaceful times.
Aaand... you kind of remind me of me? lol

[Rubicon]

Aaand... you kind of remind me of me? lol