General Function Usage Questions

[Creepy-Snaps]

So I know a fair amount of you believe I strongly value Extraverted Feeling, and think I'm possibly ESFj, but my response is that I only use Fe jokingly, that it's learned from my childhood (only guy in the family, sisters and mom constantly scolding me for being mean and blunt, as well as going to a Christian school), so I come across as Feeling when that's not the case.

ANYWAY... I'm trying to rule it out, but thought 'use Fe jokingly' could possibly be ESFp (using it as an 8th function). I was reading on personalitycafe.com and found this:

"In this instance, the way to discern between these two types (ESTp and ESFp) and to choose the correct one is to determine whether you activelly use more Fe or Fi. If you use Fe more than you use Fi, you are probably an ESTp. If you use Fi more than you use Fe, you could really be an ESFp."

WTF? You use your 6th function more than you use your 4th function? I had learned before that your 7th and 8th functions were still very strong, but I thought you still generally used your first 4 function, well, first.

Does anyone know a chart or list, for which functions are more likely to be USED? If use is independent of strength. Moreover, isn't use correlated with strength? The more I use a function, the better I get at it?

And does function usage vary with each type? Ie., some types joke more often and use their 8th function more, or ISFjs try to make decisions logically, etc.

Thanks for reading.

P.S. Do you like my new avatar? Or should I go back to the sexy Mountain Dew bottle? (<-- Extroverted Ethics people, I'm only joking. )

[Creepy-]

So I know a fair amount of you believe I strongly value Extraverted Feeling, and think I'm possibly ESFj, but my response is that I only use Fe jokingly, that it's learned from my childhood (only guy in the family, sisters and mom constantly scolding me for being mean and blunt, as well as going to a Christian school), so I come across as Feeling when that's not the case.

ANYWAY... I'm trying to rule it out, but thought 'use Fe jokingly' could possibly be ESFp (using it as an 8th function). I was reading on personalitycafe.com and found this:

"In this instance, the way to discern between these two types (ESTp and ESFp) and to choose the correct one is to determine whether you activelly use more Fe or Fi. If you use Fe more than you use Fi, you are probably an ESTp. If you use Fi more than you use Fe, you could really be an ESFp."

WTF? You use your 6th function more than you use your 4th function? I had learned before that your 7th and 8th functions were still very strong, but I thought you still generally used your first 4 function, well, first.

Does anyone know a chart or list, for which functions are more likely to be USED? If use is independent of strength. Moreover, isn't use correlated with strength? The more I use a function, the better I get at it?

And does function usage vary with each type? Ie., some types joke more often and use their 8th function more, or ISFjs try to make decisions logically, etc.

Thanks for reading.

P.S. Do you like my new avatar? Or should I go back to the sexy Mountain Dew bottle? (<-- Extroverted Ethics people, I'm only joking. )

Ego- Strong, Valued.
Super-Ego- Weak, Subdued
Super-Id- Weak, Valued
Id- Strong, Subdued.

The functions work in this way: The Ego block has good use and the individual prefers to use these. The Super-Ego has limited use and he prefers not to use these. The Super-Id has limited use and he prefers to use these. The Id block has strong use and he prefers not to use these.

Firstly, the Ego and Id. Both blocks contain strong elements, but the Ego is valued while the Id subdued. This is because the functions in the Id represent the exact opposite interpretations of those offered by the Ego, which is more convenient and natural for one to use. So, while one is good at using the Id functions, he prefers to use the Ego functions and therefore generally ignores or neglects the Id functions.

Secondly, the Super-Ego and Super-Id. Both blocks contain weak elements, but the Super-Ego is subdued while the Super-Id is valued. This is because functions in the Super-Id complement the functions in the Ego block (Se complements Ni, Ti compliments Fe, etc.) The Super-Ego blocks contains undesired and largely unused elements, as they do not complement the Ego functions. However, because the Super-Id functions are weak, an individual does not have very good use of them or may not feel natural using them, therefore use of these functions are generally supplied by an individual's dual.

It might not be that the 6th functions is used more than the 4th function, but the 6th function wants to be used more than the 4th function.

Hope this helps.

[Creepy-Snaps]

"The subject's innate lack of balance in the mobilizing function can easily cause him to indulge in it recklessly or to sorely neglect it." -Wikisocion

Superid fxns..... Self-confidence in this area tends to be more shaky, despite actual ability levels.

So it's possible to have a well-developed Fe as an ESTp? If I've indulged in it long and have developed it to be strong.

But even with that Wikisocion definition, it says the 6th function can be used to one extreme, a lot, or very little. Doesn't that conflict with the personalitycafe advice for figuring out your type? "If you use Fi more than you use Fe, you could really be an ESFp." If you're an Fe-neglecting ESTp, you might accidentally type yourself as ESFp.

And yes, I agree, environment, the functions used by people around you, must play a huge role. It even says you try to subconsciously fill in your Super-Id functions.

But overall, in terms of use, are you saying in this order, most to least used, generally: Ego(1&2), Super-Id(5&6), Super-ego(3&4), Id(7&8)?

[Creepy-Snaps]

However, because the Super-Id functions are weak, an individual does not have very good use of them or may not feel natural using them, therefore use of these functions are generally supplied by an individual's dual.

But Wikisocion says you can use your Super-Id functions often, and, to some degree, types you are compatible with (Dual, Identity, Activity, Mirror I'm guessing) actually encourage you to use your Super-Id functions (and have fun doing it!), to some degree.

More specifically, if, in the past, I have happened to feel playful and sing to my dual (hypothetically speaking, not saying it has happened! ), that would be using Fe because I'm so relaxed around her. Using my 6th function comfortably. Because I don't sing around my friends really, not as comfortable then.

It might not be that the 6th functions is used more than the 4th function, but the 6th function wants to be used more than the 4th function.

Interesting! So it wants to be used more, but it very much depends on the environment!

Ego- Strong, Valued.
Super-Ego- Weak, Subdued
Super-Id- Weak, Valued
Id- Strong, Subdued.

Same question goes for you:

But overall, in terms of use, are you saying in this order, most to least used, generally: Ego(1&2), Super-Id(5&6), Super-ego(3&4), Id(7&8)?

Except you're saying perhaps the Super-ego and Super-Id may be interchanged? That you use your 3rd and 4th functions more than your 5th and 6th ones? But that would conflict personalitycafe's advice for finding your type...

I'm starting to guess that since 5th and 6th function use varies, as people and Wikisocion have noted, that it's actually personalitycafe which is wrong.

Hope this helps.

Yes, tyvm!

[Creepy-]

But Wikisocion says you can use your Super-Id functions often, and, to some degree, types you are compatible with (Dual, Identity, Activity, Mirror I'm guessing) actually encourage you to use your Super-Id functions (and have fun doing it!), to some degree.

Yes, this is true. An individual does not get drained using the Super-Id functions, as they complement his Ego functions, as said before. However, an individual who has limited or no exposure to his dual is far less likely to actively use these functions. He has difficulties using these functions as they are not natural to him (as strong functions are), but he does enjoy using them (because they are valued). Well, actually, the dichotomies are derived from the predisposition, not the other way around, but I trust you understand what it is I am saying.

More specifically, if, in the past, I have happened to feel playful and sing to my dual (hypothetically speaking, not saying it has happened! ), that would be using Fe because I'm so relaxed around her. Using my 6th function comfortably. Because I don't sing around my friends really, not as comfortable then.

I'm not sure about this, so I could not give you a good answer one way or the other.

Except you're saying perhaps the Super-ego and Super-Id may be interchanged? That you use your 3rd and 4th functions more than your 5th and 6th ones? But that would conflict personalitycafe's advice for finding your type...

I'm not entirely sure here... I would definitely agree that Ego is first. However, based on my current understanding, I would do it like this:

Ego, Super-Id, Id, Super-Ego

EDIT: Well, merely in terms of most used, the Ego is almost assuredly used most and the Super-Ego is almost assuredly the last, but the two in between depend on the individual, really, along with other factors. The chart I made above describes one's preference of use, not use itself.

Super-Ego functions are the least psychologically beneficial functions. Use of these functions often results in anxiety, annoyance, or frustration. These functions are repressed as much as possible (hence they are subdued), but an individual also has trouble understanding them or their purpose (because they are weak). He may rarely ever use these functions simply because he does not like them or does not see their purpose, and because they negate the interests of the Ego functions.

The Id, on the other hand, though it is also subdued, the functions are strong, meaning the individual has little or no difficulty using them, and actually, might use them frequently so long as they are serving the interests of the Ego.

So the Id serves the Ego. The Super-Id complements the Ego. But the Super-Ego is not seen as able to do either. The Super-Ego functions are weakest.

I'm starting to guess that since 5th and 6th function use varies, as people and Wikisocion have noted, that it's actually personalitycafe which is wrong.

I don't see how this makes their advice wrong. ExTp's mobilizing function is Fe, while the vulnerable function is Fi. Vulnerable function is arguably the least used function in a person's psyche. If a person uses Fi frequently, he is likely not ExTp. ExFp, on the other hand, has Fi creative and demonstrative Fe. It is not exactly a fair comparison as they are in completely different places rather than switching as would happen between IxTp's and ExTp's, but it is true that an ExTp will likely use very little Fi while an ExFp will likely use very much Fi.

[EyeSeeCold]

But Wikisocion says you can use your Super-Id functions often, and, to some degree, types you are compatible with (Dual, Identity, Activity, Mirror I'm guessing) actually encourage you to use your Super-Id functions (and have fun doing it!), to some degree.

More specifically, if, in the past, I have happened to feel playful and sing to my dual (hypothetically speaking, not saying it has happened! ), that would be using Fe because I'm so relaxed around her. Using my 6th function comfortably. Because I don't sing around my friends really, not as comfortable then.

nil explained it already but.. Your dual notices your attempts in the Super-Id which seem too self-indulgent and unprofessional. Therefore they ideally would encourage you in your Ego, while they regulate activities in your Super-Id.

Also, your Role, Suggestive and Mobilizing functions are occasionally in use. You're just not tuned into the full dimensionality of them to realize it.

[717495]

I think what you're saying makes sense, like your super-ID functions come out when you think about or are around your dual, esp you can tell they have your DS figured out and probably can do/say things very easily with it that will instantly help you and you like a lot. Although: which one is more natural, and which one is stronger? I feel like one super ID feels more normal and sort of obvious/ignored, and the other one feels more special and has a deep underlying influence.

Alright, say I'm ILE: would it make sense that Ne is the general function I use, but then Fe is the latter, and Si is the former? I sort of feel semi-strong with Si like its a part of my lifestyle, its just not recognized as #1 but required for me to live happily...where as Fe comes in deep punches at me on rarer occasions, like it has a lot more meaning. Si is just kind of like: this is who I am I have to accept it, and Ne is just automatic when seeing everything, I get instant pictures, Ti is also fairly automatic when theorizing and referencing ideas, where as Fe is really passionate and personal in its given moments and has a lot stronger subjective influence on me. It gives me more reassurance, though oftentimes its from my own imaginative self or anything that gives off a sense of Fe. Yet somehow Si is more constant but also not as influential... I think they use these terms somewhere on wikisocion: Evaluatory/Situational: "Understanding this function dichotomy is integral in fully realizing how types metabolize information as it forms the "information pathway" that connects our Model A together." That would be interesting if we could classify these according to waves, HA being giant but inconstant waves, dominant being just an overfilled rushing pool, and then does it make sense that DS is a constant sense of small waves?

[Brilliand]

Also, functions 1, 3, 6 and 8 tend to be used more than the other function in their block. This corresponds to the bold/cautious function dichotomy, which I made up because there needed to be a function dichotomy in that slot and there wasn't one.

Anyhow, whatever the Russians actually call it, it seems to correspond to which functions are considered both stronger and more valued in the descriptions.

[717495]

Lead up on what I was talking about: BOOM (I just read this btw, though probably have read it in the past a few times)

Suggestive function
The suggestive function is also called the dual-seeking function. The subject finds it difficult to be overwhelmed by this element, since it perfectly complements and drives the activity of the leading function. The more it is present in his daily life, the more he will naturally adapt to its presence (see dualization). They are easily entertained by this kind of information, and its sustained presence creates a soothing psychological effect. If someone experiences a deficiency of it in his environment, he may attempt to supply it himself, but become soon exhausted. Unlike the mobilizing function, concentrated and prolonged doses from other people are received positively (depending somewhat on the individual's degree of dualization).
People focus deeply on the use of this function in day-to-day life, always attempting to digest information received from the environment through this aspect of reality. This is because it complements the leading function, making an individual not only more understanding but more satisfied about their pursuits in the Ego.
Mobilizing function
See also Hidden agenda
Help in this element is appreciated, but past a certain point is seen as excessive. The subject is more comfortable using this function than the suggestive function but still can only use it sporadically. If he isn't careful and directs it at an individual who does not value it, he will likely meet a harsh response, since they are almost sure to see it as a puerile gesture (more so than when he uses the suggestive function, usage of which comes off as more mature and well-considered, since he takes it more seriously in the first place). The subject's innate lack of balance in the mobilizing function can easily cause him to indulge in it recklessly or to sorely neglect it. It is best used in support of the suggestive function.
If too much of this element is ambient, the person will get bored or even become repelled. He sees it as a necessary part of good living, but not a primary life goal

Yeah this information definitely fits per ILE for me. Though perhaps they could go more in depth about how the hidden agenda/mobilizing function works in individuals at a more personal and deep level, as I'm sure all HAs are. Or, they already have probably, in which I will read and see if thats any good. I understand what it refers to as "puerile" gesture for HA, and taking the DS more seriously, mature, well-considered, that fits the external relational sense of how say someone would by default react, as if you were to take a static shot of their current nondeveloping state, but not the personal hidden-agenda sense. I think in social circumstances the DS emphasis fits the role of what is both proper and of vital importance, where as even though the mobilizing is yielded in creativity and lack of care for how its used, it is the HA which is taken to a somewhat less vital, but more personal, powerful and internally driven extent.

I think when I mostly speak of the information elements, I speak of them in a personal and internal sense of how my own personality reacts and thinks of them based on how I use them, and not necessarily how social/relational exchanges go. I think the DS and HA descriptions listed there are good explanations of how the social/relational aspects go.

Also, functions 1, 3, 6 and 8 tend to be used more than the other function in their block. This corresponds to the bold/cautious function dichotomy, which I made up because there needed to be a function dichotomy in that slot and there wasn't one.

Ah I didn't notice that one. I'm not really sure which one is truly used to a greater extent for me, Si or Fe, I think Si is more continuous, where as Fe is, as it says in mobilizing, "sporadic," and to me of greater personal significance, the difference being vitality and necessity (provide this for me with DS), versus significance and personal depth (don't have to provide this, I'm not good at it, but I also don't want someone to show me, I seek this more for myself of how it is meant to me, but I appreciate your strength. I appreciate my HA as your creative, instead of your dominant.) Also what it says about the suggestive "The subject finds it difficult to be overwhelmed by this element, since it perfectly complements and drives the activity of the leading function." seems quite unlikely for Fe, and rather likely for Si, so all in all I'm curious as to why your bold dichotomy contradicts what was already said or what I happen to think.

Edit: it says bold are used more freely. I think Fe is more free (bold), and as I said has a stronger emphasis, but Si is more constant, which also matches up with the suggestive function description.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Your dual notices your attempts in the Super-Id which seem too self-indulgent and unprofessional.

Are you calling my singing bad?

Also, functions 1, 3, 6 and 8 tend to be used more than the other function in their block.

Don't creative function subtypes use their 2nd function more than their 1st? I agree though that 3rd is used more than 4th, 6th more than 5th, and 8th more than 7th.

[Creepy-Snaps]

I think when I mostly speak of the information elements, I speak of them in a personal and internal sense of how my own personality reacts and thinks of them based on how I use them, and not necessarily how social/relational exchanges go.

Socionics is the study of intertype relationships.

But I think you know what I mean. I think you mean that brief social exchanges are artificial and contrived in nature, and in that sense you look at how you respond to the exchange, not what's actually said. Which I give thumbs up for.

[Jarno]

If I observe people their behaviour, this is what I see as usage of functions:

Ego 90%
Rest 10%

Actually I think you cannot use 1 function at a time, you use all 8 at the same time, just with most emphasize on the first two. (ego)

[tcaudilllg]

If I observe people their behaviour, this is what I see as usage of functions:

Ego 90%
Rest 10%

Actually I think you cannot use 1 function at a time, you use all 8 at the same time, just with most emphasize on the first two. (ego)

What do you mean by "behavior"?

[tcaudilllg]

So I know a fair amount of you believe I strongly value Extraverted Feeling, and think I'm possibly ESFj, but my response is that I only use Fe jokingly, that it's learned from my childhood (only guy in the family, sisters and mom constantly scolding me for being mean and blunt, as well as going to a Christian school), so I come across as Feeling when that's not the case.

ANYWAY... I'm trying to rule it out, but thought 'use Fe jokingly' could possibly be ESFp (using it as an 8th function). I was reading on personalitycafe.com and found this:

"In this instance, the way to discern between these two types (ESTp and ESFp) and to choose the correct one is to determine whether you activelly use more Fe or Fi. If you use Fe more than you use Fi, you are probably an ESTp. If you use Fi more than you use Fe, you could really be an ESFp."

WTF? You use your 6th function more than you use your 4th function? I had learned before that your 7th and 8th functions were still very strong, but I thought you still generally used your first 4 function, well, first.

Does anyone know a chart or list, for which functions are more likely to be USED? If use is independent of strength. Moreover, isn't use correlated with strength? The more I use a function, the better I get at it?

And does function usage vary with each type? Ie., some types joke more often and use their 8th function more, or ISFjs try to make decisions logically, etc.

Thanks for reading.

P.S. Do you like my new avatar? Or should I go back to the sexy Mountain Dew bottle? (<-- Extroverted Ethics people, I'm only joking. )

You use the functions in different contexts. For example, you use the id functions at a close psychological distance only; you generally try to avoid using them in a public setting.

A word about how functions are "used": "using" a function means either trying to accomplish something that changes the state of an information aspect, or trying to observe what changes it, or what correlates with it. The something, the what... is never the information metabolism function. Using a function is keeping it in mind, nothing more.

[Jarno]

What do you mean by "behavior"?

What drives them.