Can we ever be socially fulfilled?

[Vuze]

Can we ever be socially fulfilled? I feel like everytime I get what I want I have either:

1. built it up so much people fail to meet my expectations
OR
2. I get what I want and it's fun for a bit, but I end up wanting more. . .


mostly the 2nd though

Thoughts?

[nilv]

When you say socially fulfilled, what d'you mean exactly? What are you aiming for?

Some SLE's I've typed fulfill themselves socially through leadership positions where they're responsible for some project or cause. This gives them room to simultaneously focus towards a goal, interact with lots of different people, and take things in new directions.

It also helps to pinpoint where the "wanting more" feeling is coming from. What exactly d'you want, and why is the present situation inadequate? Sometimes the vague sense of always wanting something more hides an underlying problem we're afraid to confront.

I don't think this feeling has to be bad though -- we can use it to direct us and help us get more out of life. Yeah, wanting something and then not being content with it is frustrating, but at least it's not as dull, dehumanizing, and unfulfilling as forcing yourself to tolerate what you already have.

fwiw, I bet most of us who are drawn to socionics feel socially unfulfilled.

[Vuze]

hmmmmmm. . .

I guess I just see it as a pattern in life. It is very much like a formula where you just plug in the X. . . And when you do so you get an answer that can make you, in this manner, happy. I just feel like after I complete the formula. . I don't get the end result of happiness. I DO love gettting there but find that the end result doesn't have as much glory as it seems to have? fuck,I dunno

[Satan]

hmmmmmm. . .

I guess I just see it as a pattern in life. It is very much like a formula where you just plug in the X. . . And when you do so you get an answer that can make you, in this manner, happy. I just feel like after I complete the formula. . I don't get the end result of happiness. I DO love gettting there but find that the end result doesn't have as much glory as it seems to have? fuck,I dunno

are you on drugs?

[stanprollyright]

I think you'd get a more helpful answer if you realized you're not SLE.

[silverchris9]

a recent fictional example of an SLE displaying this behavior is the main character of the movie Avatar; he knew there was no meaning to his life, and that he needed to find some, somewhere and somehow; i think unconsciously, that is why he went to Pandora. i've seen the drifting-state-to-purpose-found change in my SLE brother as well; when he found his meaning he became more self-actualized, more mature... it's kind of amazing, really.

Yeah, I was thinking that. I was thinking that he's an SLE enneagram 1, actually, although that may or may not make sense. However, no way his girlfriend is IEI.

Anyway, if you are SLE, some suggestions:

-Start a revolution in the country of your choice, overt or covert
-Fall in love with a beautiful IEI who is being forced to marry a complete jerk she doesn't even know in an arranged marriage, win her over, and convince her father to let her marry you instead (if he refuses, run off with her, of course).
-Try to write a poem/play/novel/story of lasting and permanent value for the world. (Any chance Milton was an SLE?). Bonus points if you do it in a language other than your first (Beckett did, I think).
-Learn how to be a good person and/or attempt the Christian ideal ("the christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."~G.K. Chesterton)
-Search for buried treasure.

More practically, I think SLEs (like IEIs, or at least like me) need to be in motion to be happy. It's the pursuit, more than the goal that is enjoyable. The solution to this is to pick a very difficult goal. If all the goals you have aimed at have proven too easy to catch and not worth it once caught, you simply have to aim at higher goals, which are normally more worthwhile anyway.

[Suz]

Yeah, I was thinking that. I was thinking that he's an SLE enneagram 1, actually, although that may or may not make sense. However, no way his girlfriend is IEI.

Anyway, if you are SLE, some suggestions:

-Start a revolution in the country of your choice, overt or covert
-Fall in love with a beautiful IEI who is being forced to marry a complete jerk she doesn't even know in an arranged marriage, win her over, and convince her father to let her marry you instead (if he refuses, run off with her, of course).-Try to write a poem/play/novel/story of lasting and permanent value for the world. (Any chance Milton was an SLE?). Bonus points if you do it in a language other than your first (Beckett did, I think).
-Learn how to be a good person and/or attempt the Christian ideal ("the christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried."~G.K. Chesterton)
-Search for buried treasure.

More practically, I think SLEs (like IEIs, or at least like me) need to be in motion to be happy. It's the pursuit, more than the goal that is enjoyable. The solution to this is to pick a very difficult goal. If all the goals you have aimed at have proven too easy to catch and not worth it once caught, you simply have to aim at higher goals, which are normally more worthwhile anyway.

you like indian movies too?

[silverchris9]

you like indian movies too?

. Just watched my first one last night. The dance sequences made me unbelievably happy.

EDIT: and I think the main character in it was a (heavily idealized) version of a SLE. Or rather, he was an idealized male figure who had a lot in common with the SLE archetype.

[Suz]

. Just watched my first one last night. The dance sequences made me unbelievably happy.

EDIT: and I think the main character in it was a (heavily idealized) version of a SLE. Or rather, he was an idealized male figure who had a lot in common with the SLE archetype.

Which one was it?

I've noticed a lot of indian movies have the SLE-type hero.

[Vuze]

I think you'd get a more helpful answer if you realized you're not SLE.

I feel like you have no place to type others when you can't even type yourself correctly. . . just saying

More practically, I think SLEs (like IEIs, or at least like me) need to be in motion to be happy. It's the pursuit, more than the goal that is enjoyable. The solution to this is to pick a very difficult goal. If all the goals you have aimed at have proven too easy to catch and not worth it once caught, you simply have to aim at higher goals, which are normally more worthwhile anyway.

Truth. When I'm getting to where I want to go, or getting through a task, that is way more enjoyable than the outcome. . . So I guess when I finish my task. . I am bored lol

[Ezra]

More practically, I think SLEs (like IEIs, or at least like me) need to be in motion to be happy. It's the pursuit, more than the goal that is enjoyable. The solution to this is to pick a very difficult goal. If all the goals you have aimed at have proven too easy to catch and not worth it once caught, you simply have to aim at higher goals, which are normally more worthwhile anyway.

I think you're basically right, so long as when you say "SLEs need to be in motion" you don't mean constantly physically in motion. I'm perfectly happy just chilling most of the time. But I always have a long-term goal. I've never been without one, and the thought of being without one actually depresses me.

I feel like you have no place to type others when you can't even type yourself correctly. . . just saying

Haha, nice comeback.

Truth. When I'm getting to where I want to go, or getting through a task, that is way more enjoyable than the outcome. . . So I guess when I finish my task. . I am bored lol

Find another task then. And I pre-empt the next logical question you might ask, by saying that the IEI is there to give you meaning and direction in life.

[stanprollyright]

I feel like you have no place to type others when you can't even type yourself correctly. . . just saying

I feel like:
A) you have no basis for claiming my self-type is wrong
B) that was a pretty Te valuing thing to say
C) I can and probably will make a case for you being SEE, but this is not the time or place
D) That was a very hypocritical statement (probably demonstrates weak Ti).
E) I basically taught you socionics. You can't write me off as a completely uncredible source.

[JWC3]

I feel like:
B) that was a pretty Te valuing thing to say

Te valuing huh? Care to elaborate what exactly about his statement demonstrated Te valuing?

[stanprollyright]

Te valuing huh? Care to elaborate what exactly about his statement demonstrated Te valuing?

Attacking the source instead of the argument.

[Vuze]

I feel like:
A) you have no basis for claiming my self-type is wrong
B) that was a pretty Te valuing thing to say
C) I can and probably will make a case for you being SEE, but this is not the time or place
D) That was a very hypocritical statement (probably demonstrates weak Ti).
E) I basically taught you socionics. You can't write me off as a completely uncredible source.

A) how would you know? every time JWC3 and I try and bring it up you get pissy and storm out of the room and never come back. . .
B) I'm not sure I totally agree with that. Something in there sounds a little off of what I can recall. I'll have to look into it first before I can give you an accurate retort. . . I suppose for now, this point is yours.
C) yeah. You've tried. You have a decent knowledge of the theory but are unable to apply it into a practical way. Good way to get out of it though.
D) no? Though I do like you how you made me a nice list to go through one by one and give a rebuttal. I do feel, however, that it is something you are trying to do because it would be a way for you to understand but may not be great at it. . . maybe something you "value"?
E) You did not teach me anything about socionics. You taught me MBTI (god knows why? if fucked up more than it helped) JWC3 gave me a push in the right direction and I examined many sources to draw ideas. When I developed idea's, right or wrong, I would present them to Joe for his thoughts or corrections, and eventually Roan. From there, I took what they said and though about how it made sense to me. If I couldn't find a logical answer I would research it, once again, from different sources.

Nice try though!

[JWC3]

Attacking the source instead of the argument.

Can you point me to the source that informed you of this information?

Specifically the location of the sentence or paragraph that stated "Te valuers often attack a source instead of an argument."

I'll even accept a more general suggestion of this and allow you to point me in the direction of something that sorta maybe kinda insinuates this connection between the two.

If it's not obvious by now; I think the connection your making is bullshit, however I honestly would love to be proved wrong. Relating type to argumentative styles would be a pretty interesting read.

EDIT: I suppose if you equated commiting a logical fallecy to weak Ti, then what your saying could possibly make sense. I would be inclined to think that that correlation would be very weak and further more not conclusive as far as proving some one is type ABCd or not.

[silverchris9]

I think you're basically right, so long as when you say "SLEs need to be in motion" you don't mean constantly physically in motion. I'm perfectly happy just chilling most of the time. But I always have a long-term goal. I've never been without one, and the thought of being without one actually depresses me.

Yeah, I mean in motion towards something in life. Someone who had to be in perpetual physical motion would have a terrible life. That said, of course, everyone is technically in some form of motion at all times, b/c if impulses stopped moving through your brain and chemicals stopped moving in your cells, you'd be dead. Of course, that gets into questions of whether one is happier dead or alive, of course, if you believe, as many people do (not me) that death is personal extinction, at the very least, we can be certain that dead people are not *happy*, even if they're not sad.

Which one was it?

I've noticed a lot of indian movies have the SLE-type hero.

Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge, or "The Brave-Heart Takes the Bride". Good movie. I wonder what type Shahruhk is.

Truth. When I'm getting to where I want to go, or getting through a task, that is way more enjoyable than the outcome. . . So I guess when I finish my task. . I am bored lol

Yeah, If I didn't have anything to strive for, I would be bored out of my mind. I find that impossible tasks (writing as well as Shakespeare) are best.

[redbaron]

I think you're basically right, so long as when you say "SLEs need to be in motion" you don't mean constantly physically in motion. I'm perfectly happy just chilling most of the time. But I always have a long-term goal. I've never been without one, and the thought of being without one actually depresses me.

Every single SLE I know, male or female, thinks this way.

[Ezra]

I feel like:
A) you have no basis for claiming my self-type is wrong
B) that was a pretty Te valuing thing to say
C) I can and probably will make a case for you being SEE, but this is not the time or place
D) That was a very hypocritical statement (probably demonstrates weak Ti).
E) I basically taught you socionics. You can't write me off as a completely uncredible source.

Four of those points were totally retarded. In fact, no, make it five.

[stanprollyright]

A) how would you know? every time JWC3 and I try and bring it up you get pissy and storm out of the room and never come back. . . !
B) I'm not sure I totally agree with that. Something in there sounds a little off of what I can recall. I'll have to look into it first before I can give you an accurate retort. . . I suppose for now, this point is yours.
C) yeah. You've tried. You have a decent knowledge of the theory but are unable to apply it into a practical way. Good way to get out of it though.
D) no? Though I do like you how you made me a nice list to go through one by one and give a rebuttal. I do feel, however, that it is something you are trying to do because it would be a way for you to understand but may not be great at it. . . maybe something you "value"?!
E) You did not teach me anything about socionics. You taught me MBTI (god knows why? if fucked up more than it helped) JWC3 gave me a push in the right direction and I examined many sources to draw ideas. When I developed idea's, right or wrong, I would present them to Joe for his thoughts or corrections, and eventually Roan. From there, I took what they said and though about how it made sense to me. If I couldn't find a logical answer I would research it, once again, from different sources.

Nice try though!

This is all bullshit. I don't ever recall getting "pissy and storming out of the room", I'm pretty sure you made that up. I never actually had an argument with you about your type, I just expressed my disagreements and let you keep talking. And I did NOT teach you MBTI, I have no idea what you are referring to. This is fucking slander and I'm done with it.

[Vuze]

This is all bullshit. I don't ever recall getting "pissy and storming out of the room", I'm pretty sure you made that up. I never actually had an argument with you about your type, I just expressed my disagreements and let you keep talking. And I did NOT teach you MBTI, I have no idea what you are referring to. This is fucking slander and I'm done with it.

I think that this is enough proof of what I'm talking about. I'm sure Joe can agree. . .

[stanprollyright]

That's because your argument style is completely based upon ad hominem. And I don't appreciate my best friend making shit up about me. Go fuck yourself.

[JWC3]

I just don't understand why your two best friends think your wrong and your first inclination is to question our motives instead of examine your self.

[stanprollyright]

It's not that you both think I'm wrong it's that Shawn insulted me and made up shit about me in response. Your response was actually civilized.

[thePirate]

way to fag up a thread guys

[Vuze]

It's not that you both think I'm wrong it's that Shawn insulted me and made up shit about me in response. Your response was actually civilized.

I didn't insult you. I brought up points that are true, discussed by both Joe and I. . .

[JWC3]

*nods* Yeah, you totally get pissy and storm off all the time. Your like Rachel from glee...

EDIT: The reason I mention this isn't because I want to cite your actions as a slight against your self typing ((Which you and I both know I think is wrong) Despite the fact that they absolutely could be used in this fashion). I mention this because, in my understanding the specific comment you seem to be taking as slanderous is Shawn's comment on your behavior of getting upset and storming out of the room, A.K.A. Throwing bitch fits. This absolutely happens, on a more than weekly bases and if in your perspective you don't think this is the case, I strongly recommend you re-examine your self perspective.

In conclusion, and to hammer the point home, the only defense against the accusation of slander is truth. Which Shawn is most definitely telling with regards to the specific issue mentioned in my post.

[AQ]

Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge, or "The Brave-Heart Takes the Bride". Good movie. I wonder what type Shahruhk is.

I once typed him as ENTj-Ni, but I also saw a typing for him as ISFj. Here http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post270574

Now am thinking, maybe, ISFj makes sense for him, but he can be quite an extrovert, too, so...