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Last edited by aixelsyd; 08-12-2011 at 05:40 AM.
Let's wrestle.
Oddly enough that is largely how I often view socionics, particularly its reliance on 19th century understandings of neurology and theosophical leanings from the same era.
I'd pipe up more often around here but given the ardent and credulous attitudes of many socionics hobbyists, what I've got to say would amount to giving lectures on fallacious thinking, superstition, and comparative religion in the middle of a church service.
Where'd your post on clinging to outdated thinking get off to?
Speak my mind? I suppose you want me to verbalize, although with inescapable inadequacy, meandering thoughts that have been frequenting my consciousness lately. Very well, I shall do so to the best of my ability, though realize the majority of my conceptions are inexpressible.
As of late, I am without a purpose. I am aware that my peers should also be in the psychologically stressful period of the transition to young adulthood, yet I cannot help but feel that I am somewhat doing worse than what is expected of most. It does not worry me, but tires me, as I suffer life without direction or meaning. I am in between semesters in college. Meanwhile, I constantly attempt to challenge the futility of trying to find myself. The problem: I do not know where to start looking.
Recreations of highschool life and old experiences with different people. Conspiracies. Mental discussions.
When considering modern behavior I find it useful to recall that what we do today is performed in the shadow of history stretching back thousands and even millions of years. While what we classify as humans have been around for maybe 200,000 years, civilization is a rather recent fad that arose only about 8 millenia ago. During the idyllic, hunter-gatherer phase, gender roles were largely determined by ability to hunt, which favored the males, and ability to raise slow-maturing, neotenistic children, which favored the females. This seems to have changed little as the bulk of humanity passed first into a pastoral and then fully agrarian phase, with men continuing to play the role of provider and protector, and women playing the role of housekeeper and nurturer. Now we've moved into a phase where more people (in the first world at least) have left the farms for urban lives, and where in many cases men and women are able to perform on an equal basis. However, since it's really only a few generations since this has occurred, changes in gender roles will continue to be met with resistance that has historical, cultural, visceral, biological roots.
We humans are tiny little critters within an incomprehensibly expansive and complex world which we'll never come close to understanding, let alone perceiving or experiencing in anything more than the most glancing of ways (I'm speaking in absolutist terms here, of course). However, many people make the error of thinking that since they know a little bit then they must know a great deal, and based on this errant assumption they then make many another leap of faith and treat the illusory and false as the concrete and real.
That said, if you're going to engage the world and get anything done, you've got to start somewhere. So decisions are made as to what is and isn't real, and decisions subsequently made then influence whether what was previously held as true continues to maintain its previous truth value, i.e. if if got away with what I thought I was going to be able to do, I'm gonna do it again, and if not I won't.
Last edited by Korpsey; 12-29-2010 at 11:55 AM.
Argh. I'm glad someone else noticed that.
How dare you insult the faith of the believers in the sacred Model A and our holy prophet Aušra Augustinavičiūtė. That's just not Socionics.I'd pipe up more often around here but given the ardent and credulous attitudes of many socionics hobbyists, what I've got to say would amount to giving lectures on fallacious thinking, superstition, and comparative religion in the middle of a church service.
Someone oughta do something about you.
I think a good bit of that stems from many people's disinclination or inability to prevent their feelings from prejudicing their rational faculties (even being aware of this I'm still guilty at times, too). They might evaluate a situation logically and objectively but still harbor personal reservations that lead their final judgment in another direction. That might result from a perceived threat to their identity as an individual or demographic representative, their culture, their pocketbook, their pride, or their understanding of The Way Things Have Been and/or Should Be. At the onset of WWII the US was still mostly a nation of farmers and it's really only been a few decades since then, so the inertia of ancestral, paternalist-agrarian attitudes is still rolling along at a fair clip. In fact I don't think it was until the 1970s that women really began to enter the permanent workforce en masse, bringing various changes to economic and family dynamics.
Malthusian scares make sense when considering the utility in a certain portion of the population in a limited-resource world adopting non-reproductive lifestyles. For whatever reasons homosexuality occurs, I'm forehead-slappingly sure there's some confluence of congenital predisposition and environmental influence at work. The ramifications of its popular acceptance, should that occur, will be better understood in hindsight.
It's all good, I find these conversations easier in meatspace where I'm freer to digress and ramble and don't feel as great a need to police my grammar.
I'm finding that common for people stuck in the fuzzy quarter-life grey zone (20-29 or so). Especially given current econ conditions. Some are pretty bent about not getting the Reward they felt promised from putting in their educational dues. Some are disillusioned by the offerings altogether and want something else.
Anyway, it's hard to see it when you're sitting inside the bubble, where everyone and everything around you seems to suggest there is only one direction, one path, one doorway through which a person could ever possibly hope to attain any semblance of having a life. And if you deviate in any way from that specific sequence of stuff you're supposed to do… well, you'll probably end up miserable and desperately clinging to a shitty existence. Nameless, faceless, exiled to living on the fringes, never heard from again. Also presumably a lowlife scumbag. And so on.
Which sounds ridiculous, and it is, though it feels that way regardless. But if you start taking an honest look at what other people outside the college twilight zone are actually upto—and it takes awhile to sink in—you'll find a lot of different lifestyles out there. Many people who don't follow those prescribed expectations to the letter, and are perfectly fine and happy.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
Oh, dear. Personality disorders = non-fun. Find a nice Jewish boy? (By which I mean, find a sane person to take care of you, someone who needs someone to take care of---this does not necessarily imply a gross stereotypical mother bake-you-cookies kind of socionics mistyped ESE enneagram 2 caretaking---and rely on someone else for a while. Do it long enough to make yourself stronger so that you can deal more.)
Living with meaning living with, like in the same building/apartment/house? To the point that you can't get away? I'm just trying to think of solutions.
I hate people (frequently). Shutting down is okay sometimes too. Books. Books are good to shut down with. It's just enough of a person to not hurt you in a certain way and you still don't feel totally alone. Almost as good as religion.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
I am in your boat, sir. While I have many hobbies I feel fulfilled by and that keep the nihilism at bay, I still feel that now that I've dropped out of college that I've lost my one real "shot" at life. Which is silly, but, as Ashton put so well, I can't really conceive of any other path: all I've ever known is just going in to school or work, and having the security of knowing exactly what to do all the time: get good grades, do a good job. Done.
Now... I don't know, I'm rambling. Text-rambling. My fingers are rambling. Suffice to say, I share your weariness.
Well I see no reason why not to do it. I mean, one always has to keep in mind that Socionics *might* just be a very enjoyable form of brain poison that doesn't have any real value in regards to relationships.
Any ability to get away? Maybe if you just spent more time out of your living space? I think I used to feel somewhat like this about my family, but thankfully I think I have made some progress in putting the broken pieces of our family back together. It's definitely a process though... Anyway, I hope you continue on staying strong and that things get better.
You can always go back to school at most any point in time in your life. Plus, i've just graduated with my degree and idk what the heck I'm gonna do for a job. My friend who graduated last may just found a job recently and one that I wouldn't even want. But yea I understand that odd time where you aren't sure what you are supposed to do. I'm kind of there.
And as usual korpsy you make me laugh lol
Right now my life is kind of up in the air. I'm probably gonna go to grad school next fall. Need to finish those applications but idk where I want to go. I don't feel like moving away again and then coming back. Going back and forth between lives is difficult for me and it makes me anxious when one has to end. I kind of just want to set up my life somewhere for now. I need to find some sort of job but idk what. I need and want a job but i hate the searching process and I hate new jobs. I hate that period where I have to learn everything and don't know enough and have to ask lots of questions. Overall im not really really happy or unhappy. I think once I get my life started back up things will get better. Somehow I have become such an optimist... lol.
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
Struggling with distances. Haven't spoken to anyone face to face in good company for a while now. I feel emotionally manipulated by people I've grown to like online, that I don't get enough attention. I'm so disconnected I can't bring myself to hang out with anyone irl. Continuously reminiscing over old love(also ).
Looking at art (also )
Listening to music.
The Flaming Lips
The Modern Lovers
HIM
David Bowie
Jimi Hendrix
once i start browsing through tumblrs i can't stop.
My ESI chum also makes a rather absorbing hobby of flipping through tumblrs and adding tons of pix to her own. She's also responsible for the most popular image gallery on a certain media-heavy website and has a great eye for composition when she gets behind a camera herself. Type related??????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????
I've got an extensive collection of web pix that I rarely look at and never use, similar to my huge pile of saved wikipedia entries.
The wiki-heaping habit developed while living in the sticks without home internet. Transferring wiki entries from library computer via mp3 player was a cheap way to build an offline reference resource. Nowadays the file pile is ignored in favor of various reference and text books, plus the ubiquitous internet of the urban zone.
I create bookmarks, folders and notes all the time without ever going back to them.
So is your family the ones driving you insane and you're going to move out after college?
I'm glad you're getting out and being more social now as that can definitely help alleviate many problems. I've found that it's not about finding lots of people but the right people.
Most people aren't normal and the concept of normal is stupid. I just know its nice to find people who you can share whatever with and they don't care and accept you as is.
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
The things I do must have some tangible purpose, but that is my problem. I become so economical that I end up not doing much and this creates a self-perpetuating cycle of laziness or inertia. The more "goal oriented" I am, the less I focus on negative outcomes and the less pessimistic I feel. It's not really about being content doing nothing, it is beyond that - it's like I can't provide the drive to start myself up. Helplessness, really. So I just go deeper and deeper to find some kind of stimulation.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
It's impossible to keep it up.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
I feel the same, and I mean it. It's not a vague "relate" or whatever. You're precisely voicing my sentiments, as you often are when you speak of emotions or feelings. I don't really speak of those but I guess you might be more open, simply.
I associate mood swings with dynamic types. I don't think these are atypical for an ILI, but maybe I'm wrong here, or just atypical myself and biased by it.If I am ILI, I am an emotionally volatile one with a lot of mood swings. If I am SEE, I am pretty mopey but tend to hide it pretty well in company until I get tired of putting on a happy face to go along with whatever the people around me want to do.
Yeah. You're far more articulate about it than I am, alright. But I still could have written the above at one point or another, if I wasn't avoiding it.And I already feel awkward making this post because it's out of line with my largely indifferent forum persona because I tend not to see the point in coming off as emotional as I am here, but figured, what the hell. I owe nobody here shit and if it seems out of place, well, people can go bite me. Damn, I sound bitter.
I'm normally not this out of sorts, but it comes and goes.
Sorry for essentially making this post about comparison with myself but I guess that's about what I had to say about it. A lot of what I agree with might be human being related, but somehow I don't think it all is. And if I don't agree, it's usually because I don't see a point in nodding.
That too. To an extent.
...maternal, babies, translator of human communication, love of languages, polygots, love, (human) nature, poetry, messages, Oxytocin, compassion, Storge, psychological understanding.
Any LIEs present to sort that out?
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
What? I'm guessing that's a stream of consciousness thing about your associations to … ?
Yeah, self-pres is good. Besides, if you're not being good to yourself, you'll be useless to others anyway. Nothing wrong with prioritizing yourself when need be.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
That wasn't about me lol. I had a thought train that was going too fast so I published them.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
I LIKE PEOPLE, PLACES, AND THINGS - HOW ABOUT YOU???
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
I turn the inner-eye to view the world of 'objects' not through the lens of 'being', rather through the lens of 'doing'. I ask not, 'what is this' but, 'what does it do?'; facts are only suggestions and details are trivial and matter only insofar as they offer insight into the cause and effect of a thing. By observing what a thing does I can examine the underlying assumptions that fuel the arbitrary divisions of the many into the one - and the one into the many.
Time is the arete of existence.