Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Aw, sometimes I wonder if my brother couldn't be some other type but then I remember how his face lights up when we visit my ESE cousin and ESE aunt. My cousin is sooo like Bynes lol.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
That was a lot of Fe. I'm feeling overwhelmed. I think I need to go sit in a corner and analyze something logically for a while.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Removed at User Request
lol I couldn't watch the whole thing. My eyes rolled back into my head and I started twitching after the first 30 seconds.
The saddest ESFj
...
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
I like SEI + ESE story telling, they inject a lot of dialogue into it.
As for them, they're putting on a show here so it's not really all that interesting for me, I tend to like it more when they're engaged in a real conversation with me.
Because then I actually get what I'm looking for, selfish as it might be. I think Bynes is SEI-Fe not ESE while Ray is ESE.
Both use their 8th function very early on and you can see the difference...
Ray: How gorgeous is she, so beautiful, so etc...
Bynes: "I love you, I love you...."
Ray's voice is also quite like ESE I've met, very loud, passionate, but more steady like a EJ temperament, where as Bynes has a softer, subtly emotional, pouty voice. I typically see this as Accepting function Fe vs Creative function Fe. Also Ray is very energetic and animated while Bynes is more subdued.
There are also other verbal and physical queues in the dialogue that make me feel this way as well, but it's not all that objective or decisive and I'm don't think I need to make the effort to justify my opinion to others.
Last edited by mu4; 07-31-2009 at 11:00 PM.
Bynes has the energy level and temperament of EJ > IP. You're examples hardly seem conclusive when the big picture of the conversation clearly shows two identicals talking and not mirrors. Bynes was not really any more subdued than Ray in the conversation. Bynes only seemed less subdued because she is an ESE-Si, whereas Rachael Ray is more likely ESE-Fe.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I agree with hkkmr's analysis - provided that I guessed correctly which one he considered ESE and which one he considered SEI. I only watched the first minute or so, but the ESE told people what to do a few times (granted, it's her show, but she implied quite clearly what it was that the people should do), whereas the SEI expressed a desire to be normal (IP temperament), and that she was trying to resist the urge to become a celebrity. However, I'm not sure I would pose the emphasis on feeling vs. sensing in their language as a reason to type the one SEI and the other ESE... it calls into question the idea that the vital ring is "nonverbal."
As for my reaction to the show: I don't think I would mind that environment at all. If they were talking to me, it would be great. However, like hkkmr, I didn't respond all that much to two Alpha SFs who weren't paying any attention to me at all. Perhaps those who are getting a strong reaction are placing themselves in the shoes of one or the other of the celebrities?
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
You will defend your conclusions all you want, but it's meaninglessly subjective just as mine... because what's the difference between ESE-Si and SEI-Fe... not much. But the initial verbalization was clearly different between the two. Fi vs Se, this sort of thing happen naturally, (Even if it's scripted, it's still scripted by their thoughts).
If you think Bynes was not less subdued then Ray, this is just your observation, and I think from what we've seen before, you do not see the world thru a perceptive function but thru your logic. Feel free to invent reasons but Bynes is quite subdued by my observations.
Anyways, Bynes compliment with her ego function too...
"I love all your food tips...
"I always write down all your tips, and advice on restaurants to go to, good deals..
This is accepting Si.
Hey you're typing with energy level and dichotomies, and I'm typing with function location and verbalization. These are 2 different conclusions. Are you sure you are right? Because I'm not sure if I'm right but I also think my opinion is just plain better.
SEI-Fe is one of the highest energy introtim, basically a extrovert in every practical sense.
In which case, you are free to always dismiss my conclusions from the basis of your perceptive function versus my logical function.
Actually, Bynes' does not first say "I love you," but if you listen she returns Ray's "how gorgeous is she," with "look at her."Both use their 8th function very early on and you can see the difference...
Ray: How gorgeous is she, so beautiful, so etc...
Bynes: "I love you, I love you...."
She is concerned about how to produce and develop Si, which is creative-Si.Anyways, Bynes compliment with her ego function too...
"I love all your food tips...
"I always write down all your tips, and advice on restaurants to go to, good deals..
This is accepting Si.
You're opinion is being formed with your perceptive function, but my opinion is being formed with a much stronger logical function. See what I did there? Regardless of whether or not you think your opinion is better, I think that my opinion is correct.Hey you're typing with energy level and dichotomies, and I'm typing with function location and verbalization. These are 2 different conclusions. Are you sure you are right? Because I'm not sure if I'm right but I also think my opinion is just plain better.
SEI-Fe is one of the highest energy introtim, basically a extrovert in every practical sense.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Is look at her a or a verbalization...?
It's ! It's inviting the listener to experience and come to their own conclusion and not describing a apparent property of the object.
Of course you do. You came up with the conclusion with probably 8th function , and are now justifying it with but really, you're ignoring the objective evidence and other people's perception of the situation. You're going to be obstinate about your conclusion and think it's the only result, but I'm more yielding and will say that the possibility exists for her to be ESE-Si or SEI-Fe, but based on this video and the objective evidence presented. My tentative hypothesis is SEI-Fe because typing is a process. It's not the correct answer since that can not be evaluated except by me or you starting a long term relationship with her.
Also your creative functions is often original, deliberate.
If she comes to Atlanta I'll see if she will present herself at any of my stomping grounds.
Last edited by mu4; 08-01-2009 at 12:49 AM.
Well it is Rachel's show, so it would only be proper for Amanda to act a little more subdued and accepting while on it. I mean, she's probably not going to try and steal the show from her.
The saddest ESFj
...
She's typically this subdued, if not more subdued, with little bursts of very well crafted Fe.
Rachel is more steady like a accepting Fe type would be theoretically.
Rachel probably made her more expressive then usual.
You really do enjoy twisting vocabulary around to make subjective interpretations, don't you? "Look at her" is as much a verbalization as "isn't she gorgeous?" They are both invitations to look at the person and experience their looks. "Look at her" as a response to Ray contains an implied and understood "she's gorgeous too" in the language game.
So Mr. Pot, how are you doing? I have Mr. Kettle on line 1 here to speak with you. Hkkmr, you dismiss other people's evidence too easily with very little consideration. You say it's a process, but you have clearly already formed your conclusion, and that's that from you. My conclusion came primarily from + with reinforcing it, and less so from . Overall, her behavior matches ESEs far more than it does SEIs.Of course you do. You came up with the conclusion with probably 8th function , and are now justifying it with but really, you're ignoring the objective evidence and other people's perception of the situation. You're going to be obstinate about your conclusion and think it's the only result, but I'm more yielding and will say that the possibility exists for her to be ESE-Si or SEI-Fe, but based on this video and the objective evidence presented. My tentative hypothesis is SEI-Fe because typing is a process. It's not the correct answer since that can not be evaluated except by me or you starting a long term relationship with her.
Also your creative functions is often original, deliberate.
Well thankfully for you, you have conveniently established her as your dual and dismissed the possibility that she is mine.If she comes to Atlanta I'll see if she will present herself at any of my stomping grounds.
ETA: And after watching those three additional videos - Amanda Bynes: ESE.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Like, macaroni salad is my favourite food, but a whole gallon of it would be a bit much.
Analyzing my response a bit more, I think the issue was that there was too much all at once, with no breaks to catch your breath. I wouldn't have enough energy to keep up with all of that. I suspect it's something related to my Ne subtype.
At this point you're just trying to rationalize your original conclusion without admitting you might have made a mistake.
My conclusion is not a conclusion, it's a hypothesis, to be tested until it fails.
:Xi:.... you're really being objective here! You're not even coming up with evidence from the videos anymore, just your personal opinion.My conclusion came primarily from + with reinforcing it, and less so from . Overall, her behavior matches ESEs far more than it does SEIs.
Overall her behavior matches your idea of ESE more then your idea of SEI. End of your rationale.
And at this point you are just attempting to discredit me by misreading my actions.
Okay, then let me call it the same. A hypothesis.My conclusion is not a conclusion, it's a hypothesis, to be tested until it fails.
It was a summarization. That should have been clear. But her videos show her in high levels of energy (e.g. her fast-paced ranting in the Ray video). She continually reports "I'm excited" or similar comments in her interviews. Her videos have a high level of personal stories that she likes to weave into the interviews, which is more frequently found in ESEs than SEIs.:Xi:.... you're really being objective here! You're not even coming up with evidence from the videos anymore, just your personal opinion.
Overall her behavior matches your idea of ESE more then your idea of SEI. End of your rationale.
That does not seem particularly valid, since both ESEs and SEIs would be considered declarers, and the host (Ray) would be the one to steer the conversation for time's sake. Furthermore, while you say that the "SEI expressed a desire to be normal," that does not always mesh well with other SEI celebrities. Some of those SEI celebrities are the party-animal ones that are quite different from Bynes. But Bynes is similar in disposition and desire to be "normal" much like Sandra Bullock (ESE), who Bynes considers one of her celebrity role models. And now that I think about it, Amanda Bynes is also incredibly similar to another ESE around her age: Hayden Panettiere.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I'm not trying to discredit you, you offer excuses and reasons for why she can only be ESE-Si.
While I make observations for why she can be SEI-Fe. I think there is the possibility she is ESE-Si.
This point you cannot in good conscience not concede, unless you wish to show your dogmaticism. I started off with my concessions as I am not all knowing.
Both SEI and ESE tell personal stories. Dumas and Hugo are both storytellers.
Another rationalization? Also what part of your summarization had any Te or Ne? What part of it was objective. Her energy level is not steady like Rachel Ray's who has a very even EJ energy level. Bynes goes from quiet to a big burst of joking goofiness very quickly then just as quick subsides. This happens very often. Rachel is very steady and energetic throughout the whole procedings.Originally Posted by SEI
Her desire to be normal is there, but she also enjoys quirky, eclectic clothing as she mentioned. Also her claim to fame is being a goofy jokey comedian, while Rachel Ray was a chef. Fe-creative vs Si-creative.
She wants to be a normal girl but is really goofy instead.
Originally Posted by SEI-FEOriginally Posted by SEI-FEOriginally Posted by ESE-SIWhich one is it more like? Maybe it's just your idea of what a ESE-SI is like?Originally Posted by ESE-SI
Last edited by mu4; 08-01-2009 at 03:26 AM.
Dumas and Hugo are both storytellers, but the ESE is more open to do so, especially publicly.
It was a separate thought. Being a smug ass does nothing to test your hypothesis, so I must assume that it provides some other function in your argument.Another rationalization? Also what part of your summarization had any Te or Ne? What part of it was objective.
Bynes's high energy level seems quite consistent. Although she quiets when Ray is speaking, it is only temporary, and it is more respectful. But even then, her energy levels remain high once she resumes talking.Her energy level is not steady like Rachel Ray's who has a very even rational energy level. Bynes goes from quiet to a big burst of joking goofiness very quickly then just as quick subsides. This happens very often. Rachel is very steady and energetic throughout the whole procedings.
Her clothing is not really quirky or eclectic. She herself stresses that it is stylish while being affordable, but by no means does she describe it as being quirky or eclectic. These are adjectives which you supplied yourself, but do not come from the video.Her desire to be normal is there, but she also enjoys quirky, eclectic clothing as she mentioned.
Yes, those are their professions, but that in itself does not point to Fe-creative vs. Si-creative. This is a fairly weak argument to make. But you also forget that Bynes highly enjoys designing comfortable, stylish, affordable clothes. Si-creative. :wink:Also her claim to fame is being a goofy jokey comedian, while Rachel Ray was a chef. Fe-creative vs Si-creative.
And? These are not mutually exclusive propositions nor anything that necessarily favors one type over another.She wants to be a normal girl but is really goofy instead.
Source? I would just prefer to read the whole descriptions before I make a judgment.Which one is it more like? Maybe it's just your idea of what a ESE-SI is like?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
SEI male and female - Wikisocion
SEI subtypes - Wikisocion
ESE subtypes - Wikisocion
These are the whole descriptions.
You may not observe the difference I have observed, but perhaps this is because you've already formulated your analysis from a very personal point of view. But the differences are there for anyone to see.
As for her agreement with quirky and eclectic check the first video 3:50ish - 4 minute-ish. It is there for everyone to observe. All you're doing is saying you don't see what I see.
Thank you. If I come out with a different conclusion, it will be because of the accumulation of evidence. I have not already formed my opinion as solidly as you are trying to paint it. No more than yours at least.
Thanks for showing me that those adjectives were supplied by Rachael Ray. :wink:As for her agreement with quirky and eclectic check the first video 3:50ish - 4 minute-ish. It is there for everyone to observe. All you're doing is saying you don't see what I see.
It would appear that this description indicates differently. Oh well.
No, that is simply my response to you being a smug ass in this thread. I was unaware that you were challenging me.So your response to being challenged is to call me a smug ass? What benevolence!
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Rachael Ray offered, as it is her observation and her evaluation, Amanda Bynes agreement is something else entirely.
If I am smug, then let me be like Johnny Cochran. If it fits, then you must admit.
Oh look at this...Originally Posted by wikipedia
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Neither is, I think she's more ESE then SEI.
At least I'm talking about things other then my opinion!
My point with that blurb was to cast doubt on this. It's not there to make a point but to remove one. She's also had at least 8 boyfriends in the last 8 years, including a new one after dumping Paris Hilton's current BF. She's no angel...Originally Posted by Logos
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Funny, Rachel Ray has the same voice as my friend's ESE wife.
Amanda is a bit more reserved than rachel, but that's not conclusive proof of her being SEI.
Both were pretty great
ILE-Ti
6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)
Two other ESEs in this video: Hayden Penettiere & Regis Philbin.
* This video also shows that not all ESEs have to have the insane energy levels of Rachael Ray.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
So you bring another opinion on someone else's type as evidence? What if Hayden isn't ESE but another SEI-Fe or some other type. I'll bring some experiences, observations and opinions too.
Anyways, this isn't important... Let me bring some personal experience and opinions with SEI-Fe and ESE-Si and ESE-Fe is the difference between...
Typing are speculative
ESE-Fe guy 24 hours partying, 7 nights a week, harsh choleric verbalization
ESE-Si girl 60 hours work, 2 jobs, work out ~4 times a week, a few drinks after work most nights, softer verbalization but very constant stream of words, but more story telling and she is a girl so also more feminine topic
SEI-Si guy Works hard, party 2 nights, needs some help keeping the energy level up
SEI-Fe girl Diligent worker, normal average girl persona, crazy party girl twice a week, needs some help keeping the energy level up
Amanda Bynes Photos | Who is Amanda Bynes dating? Boyfriend, Husband
Based on Amanda Bynes dating history and choice of boys, I'm pretty sure this girls is soon to be or already a nose-candy aficionado.
Anyways when she comes to Atlanta, I'll see if I can confirm her use thru the nose-candy experts hotline.