ISFjs and "holding grudges"

[Exodus]

@TheHiddenJack Yeah, in my experience ESIs are not really capable of concealing how they feel about someone.

[Suzaku]

I don't really hold grudges. I try my best to clearly state what bugs me when it happens. Sometimes if I watch other people's reactions to situations on You Tube videos I can find a good way to really make myself heard. Like this one time I watched a video on texting etiquette and I got a text wondering if my phone was acting up. I reply "No, my phone is fine, I just don't text if I'm going to get replies like "Oh that's cool" or "lol", or some one word response, I have better things to do with my time than wait for an uninterested response". But I've learned to chew people out and get angry because sometimes that is really the only way to get through to people, otherwise they keep repeating the same bad behavior like it's okay because I'll tolerate it or something. NOPE. Though I'm generally fair with others unless they really overstep a line. You'll know. I'm not passive aggressive. That sort of behavior in itself from me or others gives me anxiety-- I like to talk about it instead of harboring negativity from both ends. I also like suggestions from people close to me on how to respond to things when I keep getting the same scenarios over and over.

[Skepsis]

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[Skepsis]

A lot of people are just bullies. They take advantage of people, hurt the innocent, destroy what is beautiful in the world. I like to have fun and be really playful, but at the end of the day, some things really matter, like integrity. Vile people do not deserve forgiveness or our sympathy. The world would be better off without them.

[Olimpia]

It is the Fi, the -Fi in fact.

According to Gulenko, ESIs have -Fi: "relationship ethics of disapproval: keeping others at a distance, being suspicious, holding a grudge. Such is the ethics of ESI."
Whereas EIIs have +Fi: "relationship ethics of forgiveness: forgiving people, giving them the benefit of the doubt, grieving and comforting those struck by grief, being kind to others. That's the ethics of EII."

Both Fi leads can employ and understand the other kind of Fi, but they naturally favour and use more often one over the other.

Personally, almost all my friendships with ESIs have ended because they couldn't forgive me and kept holding a grudge over a mistake I've made with them.
So, I think what Gulenko and the OP have noticed in terms of ESIs often holding a grudge to be very true, and it does seem to be an Fi thing.

[Beautiful sky]

Fi falls in love and understands their own feelings towards things very well and if Fi gets hurt very deeply because they loved very deeply of course it's going to hold on to the feelings and those feelings have to work themselves out in order to be released. I don't think that has anything to do with holding a grudge necessarily, but it has to do with holding on to a feeling. Not that Fi wants to cause ill will onto others but it's trying desperately to get the other person to understand these feelings.

What Fi type should do is kick them to the curb and move on because if that person is going to be so immature, childish, selfish, jerks than they don't deserve it.

[Resonare]

It is the Fi, the -Fi in fact.

According to Gulenko, ESIs have -Fi: "relationship ethics of disapproval: keeping others at a distance, being suspicious, holding a grudge. Such is the ethics of ESI."
Whereas EIIs have +Fi: "relationship ethics of forgiveness: forgiving people, giving them the benefit of the doubt, grieving and comforting those struck by grief, being kind to others. That's the ethics of EII."

Both Fi leads can employ and understand the other kind of Fi, but they naturally favour and use more often one over the other.

Personally, almost all my friendships with ESIs have ended because they couldn't forgive me and kept holding a grudge over a mistake I've made with them.
So, I think what Gulenko and the OP have noticed in terms of ESIs often holding a grudge to be very true, and it does seem to be an Fi thing.

That doesn't sound right. I read that +Fi is supposed to be incompetent in matters of -Fi and avoids it, while -Fi is competent in both and tries to transition from - to +.

Your ESI ex-friends not forgiving you is probably because you either didn't apologize genuinely (if at all) or because you did something quite unforgivable...

[Beautiful sky]

I don't think that plus and minus systems are legit as Fi in ESI acts the same for esi and I. We both can seem fine and when someone says something that we misunderstood or goes against some ideas we react unexpectedly and somewhat abruptly. Ne and Se shape our Fi. I am not bound by sensory esthetics I and go by other people's suggestions and Se in esi makes them ore private but only because they don't expand their possibilities of new experiences with new people like I can. I can almost get excited about new people like they are a new toy. Sorry and our instructions to others with regard to etiquette is somewhat different. I'm goofier and let childlike qualities come out but I think esi can make their kids behave like adults. That sense perception is more attached to objects than I am

[Suzaku]

A lot of people are just bullies. They take advantage of people, hurt the innocent, destroy what is beautiful in the world. I like to have fun and be really playful, but at the end of the day, some things really matter, like integrity. Vile people do not deserve forgiveness or our sympathy. The world would be better off without them.

You're the best. The stuff you write is enlightening.

[Suzaku]

I don't hold grudges really, I just get pissed off if people keep doing the same things I tell them is breaking my last good nerve. Also I'll avoid situations where people cause too much unnecessary conflict or drama. It is good to address issues yes, sometimes people need to freak out, but if they keep doing the same things that cause too much unnecessary conflict or drama I walk away. It gets old. Sometimes I forget to reply to messages, emails, texts, or calls. It's usually never intentional. I only talk when I have something to say. If I don't have something to say I will be quiet. But that gets taken as disliking others too. Some people naturally feel threatened or rejected by quiet people. I think I am usually amicable if someone is my friend and we hang out irl. I am more genuine in-person. Mostly because I know the guvahmont monitors anyways so I like quality time with others away from the guvahmont. I'm just not too good at keeping consistent talking online.

[Resonare]

I don't think that plus and minus systems are legit as Fi in ESI acts the same for esi and I. We both can seem fine and when someone says something that we misunderstood or goes against some ideas we react unexpectedly and somewhat abruptly. Ne and Se shape our Fi. I am not bound by sensory esthetics I and go by other people's suggestions and Se in esi makes them ore private but only because they don't expand their possibilities of new experiences with new people like I can. I can almost get excited about new people like they are a new toy. Sorry and our instructions to others with regard to etiquette is somewhat different. I'm goofier and let childlike qualities come out but I think esi can make their kids behave like adults. That sense perception is more attached to objects than I am

I don't think the system is legit either.

[Olimpia]

That doesn't sound right. I read that +Fi is supposed to be incompetent in matters of -Fi and avoids it, while -Fi is competent in both and tries to transition from - to +.

Your ESI ex-friends not forgiving you is probably because you either didn't apologize genuinely (if at all) or because you did something quite unforgivable...

Here is the information from Gulenko. This is what I have read. It is pretty spot-on, in my opinion.

This isn't mentioned in the picture I have linked to, but essentially people can use both +/- of their strongest functions.
For an ESI, that would mean they are able to use both +/- well for Fi and Si. Even so, their "default mode" is going to be -Fi.
One could say, the +/- orientations Gulenko mentions for each type are their "default modes", and a strong grasp on the particular IE (=4D) can enable the type to go outside of their default mode into the opposite sphere of the IE. I'd say the subtype would influence this ability. ESI-Fi would be more proficient at also using +Fi than an ESI-Se, for example.

Regarding my ESI ex-friends: I could explain what happened and so forth, but because this is from my POV, it may not be the most objective description. You weren't there, so you cannot really judge for certain. From my perspective, I didn't do anything unforgivable at all. With one friend, I did the "prank" of reading out a passage from Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, and put her name in place of the donkey in front of our shared friends. That made her so upset, she ended the friendship, even though I kept saying sorry and asking her how I could make it up to her. With the other ESI, I was 5-10 minutes late to a presentation we had to do in university, one that didn't even get a grade. She also was ice-cold afterwards and couldn't get over it. In both cases, I thought they were overreacting. But again, that's just me.

[The Reality Denialist]

I don't think that plus and minus systems are legit as Fi in ESI acts the same for esi and I. We both can seem fine and when someone says something that we misunderstood or goes against some ideas we react unexpectedly and somewhat abruptly. Ne and Se shape our Fi.

I see those systems coming from from different viewpoints giving same results. The problem is the lack of formalism. In areas where formalism is well established like in exact sciences this phenomena is quite common.
This is exactly what LIIs do for fun. Is it useful? Sometimes it is as it gives easier way to solve a problem.

[FDG]

Here is the information from Gulenko. This is what I have read. It is pretty spot-on, in my opinion.

This isn't mentioned in the picture I have linked to, but essentially people can use both +/- of their strongest functions.
For an ESI, that would mean they are able to use both +/- well for Fi and Si. Even so, their "default mode" is going to be -Fi.
One could say, the +/- orientations Gulenko mentions for each type are their "default modes", and a strong grasp on the particular IE (=4D) can enable the type to go outside of their default mode into the opposite sphere of the IE. I'd say the subtype would influence this ability. ESI-Fi would be more proficient at also using +Fi than an ESI-Se, for example.

Regarding my ESI ex-friends: I could explain what happened and so forth, but because this is from my POV, it may not be the most objective description. You weren't there, so you cannot really judge for certain. From my perspective, I didn't do anything unforgivable at all. With one friend, I did the "prank" of reading out a passage from Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, and put her name in place of the donkey in front of our shared friends. That made her so upset, she ended the friendship, even though I kept saying sorry and asking her how I could make it up to her.

Err honestly I think what you did is fairly bad, you are lucky she didn´t kidnap a family member as revenge.

[Resonare]

Here is the information from Gulenko. This is what I have read. It is pretty spot-on, in my opinion.

Ah OK, he's updated his system. One of the things that made no sense to me was EIE being assigned +Fe which meant they avoided -Fe and ESE being -Fe which goes against Alpha values.

Regarding my ESI ex-friends: I could explain what happened and so forth, but because this is from my POV, it may not be the most objective description. You weren't there, so you cannot really judge for certain. From my perspective, I didn't do anything unforgivable at all. With one friend, I did the "prank" of reading out a passage from Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, and put her name in place of the donkey in front of our shared friends. That made her so upset, she ended the friendship, even though I kept saying sorry and asking her how I could make it up to her. With the other ESI, I was 5-10 minutes late to a presentation we had to do in university, one that didn't even get a grade. She also was ice-cold afterwards and couldn't get over it. In both cases, I thought they were overreacting. But again, that's just me.

The first one is too vague, but I've actually done something similar to the last one to avoid having unreliable people around when things started to matter in University, didn't hate them at all though.

[Adam Strange]

From my perspective, I didn't do anything unforgivable at all. With one friend, I did the "prank" of reading out a passage from Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream, and put her name in place of the donkey in front of our shared friends. That made her so upset, she ended the friendship, even though I kept saying sorry and asking her how I could make it up to her.

@Cassandra, I agree with @FDG here, in that I view public humiliation as really bad. I can see, though, how that might have been part of your natural "friends" repertoire, because Beta is about the struggle for power and position. I remember reading somewhere that the IEI-SLE duals call each other "runt" and "scrap" as terms of endearment. (Which perfectly illustrates the Fi-Fe divide.) This is actually one of the biggest turn-offs of IEI's to me, in an otherwise awesome package. Not the name calling, but the will to power and hierarchy. Things didn't actually go well with the LSI that I was dating until she accepted that I could not be dominated, at which point she accepted my "rule" (she seemed to arrive at the conclusion that I was higher on the ladder than she was, which is BS), although I was never comfortable with that attitude, but I could at least then be my naturally nice self to her all the time.

With the other ESI, I was 5-10 minutes late to a presentation we had to do in university, one that didn't even get a grade. She also was ice-cold afterwards and couldn't get over it. In both cases, I thought they were overreacting. But again, that's just me.

This seems harsh. I'm late all the time. I just have to bring a lot to the table when I arrive.

[Olimpia]

@Cassandra, I agree with @FDG here, in that I view public humiliation as really bad. I can see, though, how that might have been part of your natural "friends" repertoire, because Beta is about the struggle for power and position. I remember reading somewhere that the IEI-SLE duals call each other "runt" and "scrap" as terms of endearment. (Which perfectly illustrates the Fi-Fe divide.) This is actually one of the biggest turn-offs of IEI's to me, in an otherwise awesome package. Not the name calling, but the will to power and hierarchy. Things didn't actually go well with the LSI that I was dating until she accepted that I could not be dominated, at which point she accepted my "rule" (she seemed to arrive at the conclusion that I was higher on the ladder than she was, which is BS), although I was never comfortable with that attitude, but I could at least then be my naturally nice self to her all the time.

Hm, interesting how you read a lot of hierarchal stuff into this.

I got the idea to do this "prank" out of boredom. We girls were hanging out, one half of the group was outside, the other was inside the house. I was with my other best friend (not the ESI) at the time. We were really bored, and tried to think of something to do. I wanted to raise the mood in some impactful way. That's the Beta Quadra aspect of it all. I didn't see anything bad in what I was doing, I thought it was all just a silly joke, and that it was obvious it was just about being silly and having a good time. I wasn't thinking about putting myself above her or anything like that. The passage I read out, was the one where the fairy queen declared her love to the donkey. So, when I read it out, it actually sounded more like a love letter towards my friend than a diss, ha. In a weird way, this is how I was showing I liked her. But obviously, it went all horribly wrong. We were young at the time, early teens. The ESI was a shy girl, and I suppose this whole thing got to her more than it should. At last, I want to add that this wasn't "public humiliation". We were at the house of one of our friends. The only people that witnessed this, were our fellow closest friends.

But yes, it is clear as day that the thing that drove us apart was the Fe/Fi divide and our different understandings of humour and so forth.

That's why I am convinced that sharing the same valued ethical IE is better for group situations. In my case, I enjoy myself more in a group of fellow Fe valuing people and there are less awkward misunderstandings. Being in a group of predominately Fi valuing people can be boring when they are being "too serious" for my taste (unless there is an ExFp in the group, they tend to amp up the energy/mood more with their Fe Demonstrative). However, one-on-one I can have quite positive experiences with Fi valuing types (up to a point ofc).

P.S: I think this bad experience actually gradually lead me to becoming the Ni subtype. Before that, as you can see with my "prank" (I liked doing pranks back in the day), I was more like the Fe subtype.

[Adam Strange]

^Yeah, I got the part where you wouldn't have done it if you hadn't liked her in the first place.

My IEI cousin and I are 3 weeks apart, we used to sleep together in the same crib, and I'm "tuned in" to IEI's, so I get that.

But again, that is the Fi-Fe divide.

[Olimpia]

^Yeah, I got the part where you wouldn't have done it if you hadn't liked her in the first place. But again, that is the Fi-Fe divide.

Right, I get it now.
After learning Socionics and understanding the type differences and all that.

Before that, I didn't understand what had happened. The whole fall-out was inexplicable to me.
The only conclusion I could arrive at was that there's something deeply wrong with me, and that I am unloveable, whatever.

The funny thing is, after that bad experience, I was attracted to ESIs like crazy. Almost every single crush I've had afterwards was ESI.
Looks like my unconscious sought out to re-create a similar scenario, but this time make it work and do it "right".

[Suzaku]

Right, I get it now.
After learning Socionics and understanding the type differences and all that.

Before that, I didn't understand what had happened. The whole fall-out was inexplicable to me.
The only conclusion I could arrive at was that there's something deeply wrong with me, and that I am unloveable, whatever.

The funny thing is, after that bad experience, I was attracted to ESIs like crazy. Almost every single crush I've had afterwards was ESI.
Looks like my unconscious sought out to re-create a similar scenario, but this time make it work and do it "right".

I was attracted to an ESI before too and it went horribly wrong. Maybe it also boils down to enneagram, instinctual variants, and values. I find 1's to be good friends and 7's are attractive to me from experience. I know why- they're fun to be around and are ridiculously shrewd (from experience) but you have to be paying attention to how smart they actually are. That and I don't do well with negative energy, 7's don't have that negative energy (from experience).

[Resonare]

Hm, interesting how you read a lot of hierarchal stuff into this.

I got the idea to do this "prank" out of boredom. We girls were hanging out, one half of the group was outside, the other was inside the house. I was with my other best friend (not the ESI) at the time. We were really bored, and tried to think of something to do. I wanted to raise the mood in some impactful way. That's the Beta Quadra aspect of it all. I didn't see anything bad in what I was doing, I thought it was all just a silly joke, and that it was obvious it was just about being silly and having a good time. I wasn't thinking about putting myself above her or anything like that. The passage I read out, was the one where the fairy queen declared her love to the donkey. So, when I read it out, it actually sounded more like a love letter towards my friend than a diss, ha. In a weird way, this is how I was showing I liked her. But obviously, it went all horribly wrong. We were young at the time, early teens. The ESI was a shy girl, and I suppose this whole thing got to her more than it should. At last, I want to add that this wasn't "public humiliation". We were at the house of one of our friends. The only people that witnessed this, were our fellow closest friends.

But yes, it is clear as day that the thing that drove us apart was the Fe/Fi divide and our different understandings of humour and so forth.

That's why I am convinced that sharing the same valued ethical IE is better for group situations. In my case, I enjoy myself more in a group of fellow Fe valuing people and there are less awkward misunderstandings. Being in a group of predominately Fi valuing people can be boring when they are being "too serious" for my taste (unless there is an ExFp in the group, they tend to amp up the energy/mood more with their Fe Demonstrative). However, one-on-one I can have quite positive experiences with Fi valuing types (up to a point ofc).

P.S: I think this bad experience actually gradually lead me to becoming the Ni subtype. Before that, as you can see with my "prank" (I liked doing pranks back in the day), I was more like the Fe subtype.

The only way I can see her reaction being justified is if she's been bullied and they call her a donkey or that she has a fat ass lol, maybe if she has image problems that she's confided in you about as well. Otherwise it was actually OTT to react like that assuming you're not leaving out any details ofc

[Olimpia]

The only way I can see her reaction being justified is if she's been bullied and they call her a donkey or that she has a fat ass lol, maybe if she has image problems that she's confided in you about as well. Otherwise it was actually OTT to react like that assuming you're not leaving out any details ofc

I don't think she's ever been bullied during the time I knew her (dunno about kindergarten and such), and she was the opposite of fat, quite slim and delicate.
She never mentioned any kind of body issues to me. Well, just read what Adam said, he apparently gets what made her so upset.

[Suzaku]

The only way I can see her reaction being justified is if she's been bullied and they call her a donkey or that she has a fat ass lol, maybe if she has image problems that she's confided in you about as well. Otherwise it was actually OTT to react like that assuming you're not leaving out any details ofc

That or they really didn't know one another well enough. There were certain pranks that were acceptable to me because of closeness. But all of this happened in high school. ZOMG I WUZ STARTIN' MUH PERIOD AND THIS JOKE CAME AT ME, WAS NOT FUNNEH. High school nonsense -_-

[Resonare]

I don't think she's ever been bullied during the time I knew her (dunno about kindergarten and such), and she was the opposite of fat, quite slim and delicate.
She never mentioned any kind of body issues to me. Well, just read what Adam said, he apparently gets what made her so upset.

Well, modern teenage girls are totally vile and idiotic ime so I'd just chalk it up to that.

That or they really didn't know one another well enough. There were certain pranks that were acceptable to me because of closeness. But all of this happened in high school. ZOMG I WUZ STARTIN' MUH PERIOD AND THIS JOKE CAME AT ME, WAS NOT FUNNEH. High school nonsense -_-

At best. A lot of them are really nasty where I live.

[Suzaku]

Err honestly I think what you did is fairly bad, you are lucky she didn´t kidnap a family member as revenge.

LMFGDAO

[GuavaDrunk]

@Cassandra: Yeah, sounds to me like you misjudged the ESI's character so the joke was inappropriate in her specific case, if not necessarily in general. Just needs better calibration.

[FDG]

The only way I can see her reaction being justified is if she's been bullied and they call her a donkey or that she has a fat ass lol, maybe if she has image problems that she's confided in you about as well. Otherwise it was actually OTT to react like that assuming you're not leaving out any details ofc

I personally think public humiliation is really hard to forgive...
the other thing where she was just late, seems overreaction to me as well.

[Resonare]

I personally think public humiliation is really hard to forgive...
the other thing where she was just late, seems overreaction to me as well.

Maybe it's a cultural thing because over here in the UK that's just banter

[Raver]

I find unhealthy ESIs tend to hold grudges over things that are minor or if it is major then they did something major themselves to cause it, but ignore it and continue to hold the grudge. Healthy ESIs tend to have enough self awareness to not fall into this trap though and reserve their grudges for those that truly deserve it.

[Skepsis]

[Skepsis]

You're the best. The stuff you write is enlightening.

thank you....you are very kind

[Bertrand]

I forever wrote off one of my only true childhood friends when he sided against me and some of my other friends with a group of hooligans. It made such a strong impression its like I still can't believe it after all these years. It makes it hard to consider reconciliation because of how mind blowingly awful it was. Like I think I need to get over that before I can even move onto the next step and it feels like I just cannot even process it. The only way I can describe it is it feels like a completely "evil" act, with no rational way to understand it except as "evil"--like it defies any sort of attempt to make sense of it and now occupies the space we call "evil" which is irreducible unmitigated badness. I don't think I want to reconcile with that, because its like burned into his character in such a way I feel I'd be compromising with dark forces were I to try. I also feel like if I were to ever extend an olive branch it would send the message that one can get away with that behavior; rather, on some level I'm hoping that he will one day ask himself "why would a good person such as Bertrand cut me off" and then come to realize his mistake and then we've made real progress. I know that on some level I could "mend" things but it would only essentially "overlooking" evil or turning a blind eye to it--it would never solve the underlying issue, and until that issue gets solved it feels dishonest to "pretend" to be friends, when that would always be in the back of my mind. In other words, the damage is done, the only thing worse than holding a grudge would be to hold a grudge but pretend not to or be in denial about it. If he asked me about it I'd tell him exactly this, but at the same time I have zero faith that me explaining this to him would have any effect. Like many viewpoints in this thread, I think his would simply be that this is entirely my problem thus we are at loggerheads in such a way that terminal distance is the only reasonable way to manage things.

Also I would like to say the gravity of the bad act is determined not by the objective consequences at stake but by the irrationality or incomprehensibility of the act. In other words, a supremely petty act that is totally impossible to comprehend is far more traumatic to me than a potentially dangerous or wide reaching act that is in some way understandable. This makes me look petty, but I feel like the pettiness + irrationality is what gives rise to the true sense of "evil"; and it originates first in the other. I don't want to dislike people, although it outwardly looks like I'm "choosing" to make a mountain of a molehill--I'm really not: precisely when so little is at stake one should be able to count on people doing the right thing, the fact that they don't says more about their character (sometimes--exceptions do exist of course) than good intentioned failure with much worse actual consequences.

[flames]

I can find their grudge holding somewhat inspiring in some ways, because I'm way more open minded and relaxed when it comes to relationships than them, for the hell of it, and sometimes it bites me in the ass. But I also often find it unnecessary and stuck up. Like, I've fought heavily with an ex-friend ESI in the past for closing all contact with me and blocking me (and blocking many many other people, too, I told her to actually deal with arguments and go past them instead of blocking people ) over what I thought was stupid. I can hate people for some time and shit talk a lot about them but I'm still open to talk to them any time and won't ever block them, etc. and I find trying to keep a grudge for a long time painful.

@Cassandra I think those ESIs that got mad at you were definitely overreacting and if someone did that to me I would totally argue with them and tell them to get over it and lighten up.

[FDG]

Also I would like to say the gravity of the bad act is determined not by the objective consequences at stake but by the irrationality or incomprehensibility of the act. In other words, a supremely petty act that is totally impossible to comprehend is far more traumatic to me than a potentially dangerous or wide reaching act that is in some way understandable.

This perspective is really perplexing to me...especially because if you extend it to yourself, you may get away to your own conscience with reasonable but widely damaging stuff while keeping in check lots of unreasonable but petty things...and that would be dangerous...

[Bertrand]

This perspective is really perplexing to me...especially because if you extend it to yourself, you may get away to your own conscience with reasonable but widely damaging stuff while keeping in check lots of unreasonable but petty things...and that would be dangerous...

yes but for it to be "reasonable but highly damaging" it would be offset or justifiable by something, which is presumably something important for it to be equal to "highly damaging"--this doesn't make it objectively "right" just that it makes it "sympathetic"--think magneto in first class. no one is saying Fi is "right all the time" merely for being Fi, rather than Fi has at its core its own "rationality" that, in the broadest stuctural terms, the deepest evil (for me anyway) is that which confounds it, not that which has its place. which isn't to say that I don't think "understandable evil" doesn't exist--I think it does. this is where you can see where someone is coming from but you still think they're wrong. this is shades of black and grey and it would be misleading to think that Fi "makes" things good or evil, rather it was a first person look of what it feels like to experience the kind of thing that would make one need to hold a grudge, which is something that you cannot, for lack of a better word, metabolize, and the result is a grudge, not out of want but out of necessity

[Hermit Soul]

I just read this news article about this guy who got dumped by his first love and she gave him a christmas present during the time she dumped him.

He ended up vowing to himself that he will never open that present, and he stayed true to that vow and hadn't opened that present for 48 years, until the day they reunited again as friends and she helped to open it on his behalf.

I wonder if that guy in the news article is an ESI.

[Moou]

Oh boy I do this all the time. Even on other forums, I remember if someone else did something that crossed the line. I don't forgive easily. I know how to let things go, but I still remember them in my head and seethe quietly. Well sometimes I forgive easily, but I don't forget, and I still judge the person based off that.

[roger557]

ESI's suck...

[ooo]

they're lovely grumpy mofos

[The Reality Denialist]

They are aliens. I have no clue of why are they complicating their lives with that crap. They try to make LIE's makes concessions but holy crap not the whole world can be subordinated under their judgement.