I'm confused.
Differences between 469s and 479s
I'm confused.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Me, too.Originally Posted by Shaebette
Oh, you meant about the thread title. Here:
Posts #26 & #28: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram...iptions-3.html
@Adam Strange Well thank you. Just to be clear, I'm always confused so that applies too. What's your source of confusion tday?
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
I've seen that thread before and it wasn't of much help. The tritypes are kind of confusing
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Too many things to do, not enough time to do them all, which ones can be put off with the least amount of damage, how can I get more stuff done, and insufficient coffee.
I'm working on the last one, which will help the others.
@Adam Strange "Coffee is the secret to success."
Last edited by Shytan; 04-07-2017 at 10:35 AM.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Say no more. I hope this helps!
The 6 and 9 are attachment-based, so motivations circle around trust and interpersonal harmony. The 4 core heart agenda orients itself at people.
The 7 and 9 combine to avoiding pain (going away from people more than 6!) and therefore experiencing a much more reclusive aspect of 9, which is fortified by core 4.
Summa summarum: The 469 is more compelled toward others while 479 goes about their own business a lot more.
479 are huge children running away from pain and conflict and often afraid of commitment (but i love them)
469 is... more self-doubting and mature. truth searchers instead of truth avoiders
Np <3 Other than Adam's... hm. Try this Youtube section instead, there's lots of input.
Yeah really good
@Chae I've used Adam's and the 469 sounds NOTHING like me. Well except the endless search for who I am.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
What am I???
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Mostly because it's behavior descriptions, and doesn't cover all possible combinations within one tritype. It's also not about motivation per se. My movershakerness wasn't apparent in the small sample too, simply because it focused on 8 more than 3 as the core type. So those texts are too superficial. If you resonate with 4's identity drive (check! you definitely have that), 6's security search, 9's will to be harmonious, you should be good to go.
Asking that very question, a 468! (Jk. But this really is a 4 topic)What am I???
Interests, missions, blind spots... for tritypes with 4. --> https://waysofwisdom.wordpress.com/2...ypes-with-a-4/The Enneagram is a system for typing personalities. It works with 9 basic personality types that are very different from each other. It is said to be the most in-depth and useful personality typing resource.
The centres
Each of the 9 personalities can be divided into one of the three main categories, the so-called centres:
– the heart (or feeling) centre. This is the centre of the human emotions. It is driven by a need to be affirmed. There’s always a feeling of shame and a fear of being ignored present. Types 2, 3 and 4 are heart types.
– the head (or thinking) centre. This centre deals with the thinking process of people. It is driven by a need to be reassured. In this centre, a feeling of anxiety and a fear of being in chaos are dominant. Types 5, 6 and 7 are thinking types.
– the gut (or instinctive) centre. This centre deals with human actions. It is driven by a need to be accepted. Gut types are characterised by a feeling of anger and a fear of being overlooked. Types 8, 9 and 1 are gut types.
The Tritypes
The Tritype Enneagram theory as developed by David and Katherine Fauvre goes that everyone has one type in each centre that is most important. These three types together make a person’s tritype. However, for each individual one of these three types is dominant. This is their main Enneagram type. Remember that this type is however hugely influenced by the other two types from the other centres.
A possible tritype could be 926. This tritype is interpreted as follows:
– this person has character traits from type 9, 2 and 6.
– type 9 and therefore the gut centre is dominant.
– in other words, this person will act first before feeling and thinking.
– the second type is a heart centre type, the 2.
– thinking (type 6) comes last for this person.
It even appears that the three types from the three different centres are way more important than the dominant type. In other words, a 874 will have more in common with a 478 than with a fellow dominant 8 type like 852.
The Heart Centre – feeling
Type 2
Type 2 is the type that over-expresses their emotions. They are generally extroverted, approaching others to pay attention to their feelings. They are known as The Givers or The Helpers. This is because they tend to focus on the needs and desires of others. They extremely value helping people and get pride from being caring and generous. Helpers feel that in this way they will be loved. A downside or blind spot that they have is that they can be manipulative or possessive of others. There’s also a chance that they forget their own needs and focus too much on others’ as they avoid being needy. In the course of their life, the type 2 can mimic qualities of type 1, 3, 4 and 8.
Type 3
Type 3 is the type that is numb when it comes to emotions. They are completely out of touch with them. Action-oriented, they strive for success. They are hence known as The Performer or The Winner. Efficient and driven, they want to achieve their goals. They are self-assured and extremely ambitious. They feel that they need to produce and achieve something in order to be loved, sometimes deceiving themselves that they have made it in the world. A blind spot can be that they are narcissistic or hostile, thinking they are a real success. In the course of their life, type 3 can mimic qualities of type 2, 4, 6 and 9.
Type 4
Type 4 is the type that under-expresses their emotions, keeping them inside themselves in order to analyse them, thus being withdrawn. They are known as The Individualist because they want to be different; they seek to be special. Another name is The Deep-sea Diver, because they look for meaning in their life, themselves and their emotions. They are intuitive and have a knack for creativity. They feel that they need to be unique to avoid being ignored. A blind spot is their envy that follows when others have found a better life than themselves. They can also appear sad or self-absorbed because of their sensitivity to emotions. In the course of their life, type 4 can mimic qualities of type 1, 2, 3 and 5.
The Head Centre – thinking
Type 5
Type 5 is the type that under-expresses their thoughts, keeping them inside themselves until they are absolutely sure they’ve figured them out. Hence, they are a withdrawn type. Known as The Thinker, they’re constantly trying to figure out how the universe works using objective logic to avoid being in chaos. They also have another title: The Observer. This is because they are distant from the world, people and situations and are very perceptive and original. Their greed is to read, learn and analyse information. A blind spot is that they’re provocative and eccentric, living in an ivory tower. In the course of their life, type 5 can mimic qualities of type 4, 6, 7 and 8.
Type 6
Type 6 is the type that is numb to ‘head centre thinking’; they have trouble seeing things in an objective manner. The Loyalist wants to be faithful, responsible, dutiful and dependable. If there’s someone you can count on and who will be there for you, it’s the 6. They yearn for certainty. A funny thing is that this can be manifested in two ways: being obedient and cautious (the so-called phobic 6) or being rebellious and a dare devil (the counterphobic 6). A blind spot of both types of sixes is that they can be quite sceptic, doubtful and paranoid. They’re actually afraid of being afraid! In the course of their life, type 6 can mimic qualities of type 3, 5, 7 and 9.
Type 7
Type 7 is the type that over-expresses thinking. It’s not that they are extreme know-it-alls, far from it. Instead, they use their amazing (thinking!) ability to see exciting opportunities and fun activities to plan a pleasurable life, for all of us. No wonder that they are called The Enthusiasts; they feel that being happy and entertaining is the path to being liked. Happy-go-lucky to the top, they want to avoid experiencing life’s pains. Their strategy is to be spontaneous and feel accomplished. A blind spot of the sevens is that they can experience gluttony, being excessive and maniac. In the course of their lives, type sevens can mimic qualities of type 1, 5, 6 and 8.
The Gut Centre – acting
Type 8
Type 8 is the type that over-expresses their acting. They want to be strong and make an impact on the world. Making sure everyone is living a good, right and proper life, they are very protective. A name for this type is –unsurprisingly- The Protector or The Leader. Indeed, they’re just right for leadership: self-confident and decisive, they are not afraid to act. Not just competent, they also love being in charge and in control. They might practise the sin of lust, taking everything they want as if they’re on top of the world. Another blind spot is that they can be aggressive, angry and combative. In the course of their life, type 8 can mimic qualities of type 2, 5, 7 and 9.
Type 9
Type 9 is the type that is numb to the acting that’s so typical of the gut centre. They feel that they have to go with the flow instead. Because they see and understand what motivates others, they have no desire to rock against the boat. They are often called The Peacemaker or The Mediator. They aspire to be peaceful, calm, easygoing and content. You might know one of them, with their popular phrase “I don’t mind, it doesn’t bother me”. They are incredibly reassuring, appearing to live to go along with others instead of having their own opinions. A blind spot is that they might become lazy, procrastinating and neglectful. In the course of their life, type 9 can mimic qualities of type 1, 3, 6 and 8.
Type 1
Type 1 is the type that under-expresses their acting, keeping their desired way of acting inside themselves, making an internal library of what is good and bad. Idealistic and perfectionistic in every way, they are called The Reformer or The Perfectionist. They know very well what they feel is the perfect, ethically right way to act. Typically, the ones are principled and orderly and want to improve themselves and others. When this doesn’t work, they tend to become angry, despite thinking that they absolutely shouldn’t. Another blind spot is that they are so perfectionistic that they become critical and self-righteous, believing that they know the right way. In the course of their life, type 1 can mimic qualities of type 2, 4, 7 and 9.
Differences within types
You might think: the Enneagram theory tries to make typing people simpler, a bit like putting a box around them. This is partly true: people are very complex and it’s just undoable to categorize them. That’s why the Enneagram doesn’t do this as easily. In the Enneagram theory, there are plenty of variants that distinguish one type 2 from another.
Tritypes
One of these differences is the tritype they have. As discussed before, according to the Tritype theory each person is a combination of three types: one from each centre. It even appears that the three types from the three different centres are actually more important than the dominant type. In other words, a 945 will have more in common with a 495 than with a fellow dominant 9 type like 963.
Development
Another variable is the stage of development a certain type is in. For each type, the Enneagram has formed an ideal life path: what to learn, what to avoid… It also describes what happens when a type becomes ‘unhealthy’ (i.e. only uses their negative traits).
As mentioned in the type descriptions, types can mimic other types. This exactly is what happens when a type ‘grows’ or, the opposite, gets unhealthy. In the diagram to the left, there are a couple of arrows between types. When following the arrows, you can see what often happens when a type gets unhealthy: it begins to adopt their own negative traits plus negative characteristics from a particular other type. When going against the arrows, you can see from which type a particular type needs to learn some positive traits (apart from using their own qualities).
An example: type 1 needs to learn to become less rigid and demanding: adopt the spontaneous, fun and optimistic qualities of type 7 (how to know that: go from type 1 on the diagram against the arrow to type 7). When 1s are under stress and unhealthy, they, apart from getting critical and self-righteous (the negative traits of type 1), they might get melancholic, dramatic, self-absorbed and extremely sensitive, which are the ‘lower’, more negative aspects of type 4 (how to know that: follow the arrows to type 4).
So far…
The Enneagram theory thus takes into account that no one is entirely, a 100% one type. As stated before, according to Tritype theory, types adopt qualities of their other tritype types. Moreover, connected to their ‘level’ of development, types can move towards other arrow-connected types.
Wings
However, there’s more. Apart from mentioning the two arrow-connected types, 2 other types were also mentioned in the type description. That’s because the Enneagram diagram above isn’t random. Types that complement each other are put next to each other. Take type 3. Some 3s might lean a bit towards type 2, as type 2 is adjacent to type 3. This person is then called a type 3 with wing 2, or type 3w2. Other threes might lean towards the neighbouring type 4 and take over some qualities of that type. These are called 3w4’s. Keep in mind: the dominant type is still type 3; this is just a fine distinction that can be made between 3s. Some people even express their tritype with wings, like 2w1-8w7-5w4.
Instinctual variants
We aren’t done yet. Lastly, there’s a difference in how people try to ‘survive’. Surviving isn’t hard anymore in modern times, but we still have the instinct to either be self-preservational (sp), 1-to-1/sexual (sx) or social (so). You can add this instinctual variant to your type; you could be a 6w5 (phobic) sp. Some even add it to their tritype. It appears however that your instinctual variant is the same in each type of your tritype. In other words, when you’re a 2w1 sx as a dominant type, your other tritype types (for instance: 8w7 and 5w4) are also 1-to-1 or sexual.
Let’s look at the three instinctual subtypes. It first has to be stated that each instinctual variant is expressed a tad differently in each of the nine types. You might understand that a withdrawn, objective 5 is ‘social’ in a different way than an extroverted, helping 2. Okay, let’s go on with the descriptions. Keep in mind that this is about priorities (all types want to be comforted, connected or included in one way or another) and is a real, ancient times instinct rather than a personality trait!
Firstly, the self-preservation behaviour: to survive these types (used to) focus on acquiring safety, security, comfort, protection and basic resources like food, shelter and warmth. In modern times, this means that the sp’s search for well-being and can be materialistic.
Secondly, the 1-to-1 or sexual behaviour (no, these types are no sexual maniacs!): these types used to form close pair bonds and one-to-one relationships and connections to survive. Now, this basically means that the sx’s search for an intimate soul mate.
Lastly, the social behaviour: in order to survive, these individuals (used to) focus on building and serving the community. In other words, the so’s want to be included, help society, want a good status and lots of friends.
Tritypes and archetypes
A question: do you already know what your tritype is? In other words, have you already decided which is the most important type from each centre? As said before, the tritype is an even better way to explain personality than the regular Enneagram theory (when describing someone only according to their dominant type). People with the same types in their tritypes are even more alike than those with the same dominant types!
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
@Chae What do you mean 6's security search? I'm stuck between 6 and 7, and I'm not sure I'm 9
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
6 and 7 are quite far apart: 6 asks what could go wrong, and who they can rely on. That's why they are on a security search. 7 asks a more self-focused question: Am I missing out? Is everything painfree for me?@Chae What do you mean 6's security search? I'm stuck between 6 and 7, and I'm not sure I'm 9
For the gut center:
Do you prefer to exert control? ---> 8
Do you advocate everyone to get along? ---> 9
Do you look for what is done correctly? ----> 1.
And
8 fix: Enhance expressed anger so you make sure people get the point and know you are not to be messed with=often too much anger, alot of "rawr" to show them they should back off and that Im the boss.
9 fix: Tone down expressed anger, afraid of what the anger might cause in the actual relation between you and the person and the discomfort it brings - idk if this is only applicable to 9s
1 fix: I think this fix is more balanced.. 9 underexpress anger and 8 overexpress. actually dont know much about 1 fix. Probably more snarky than 8 if unhealthy
Last edited by maniac; 04-07-2017 at 02:54 PM.
Yep.
--> 9's anger is there but it bubbles underneath the surface. 1's anger is more of a nuisance, they are least in touch with it. There's a lot of judgement connected to fury here.
@Chae After quite a lot of soul searching and research, I AM a 479The above thread, though, calls them a gentle fairy or something? Which I don't really relate to.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Woohoo nice! Gentle fairy - not with enneagram 4 as the core type and SX as the variant. 947 or 974 is the gentle version.@Chae After quite a lot of soul searching and research, I AM a 479
469 - Angsty Tumblr Pisces sign stereotype
479 - Manic Pixie Dream Girl/Boy
...None of my tritype names are very flattering, so this isn't singling anyone out.
It's what I posted in my enneagram thread:
E8: Good for me/Bad for me, also extended to other people at "healthy" levels as the "Protector" archetype, so generally just yelling and growling
E9: Wants to be natural and keep the balance, so generally not expressing anger as much as possible, but not necessarily super quiet and meek, just calm and solid
E1: Independent good and evil, so they get angry over violations, but otherwise there's some sort of vaguely wrath-as-sin idea so it's clearly moderated anger even if it can be frequent and intense depending on other factors (like neo-Classical balance sort of)
WHAAAAAT YELLING AND GROWLING!!!!????? GAHHHHHHHHHHHH
Jk, exactly. It's like the heart triad where 4 expresses emotion at full blast, 3 blocks it, 2 is in between at 50/50 depending on others.
I'm the 9 first 479, and I wouldn't call myself "gentle", it sounds so soft and meek lol. Others might, as I do come off very grounding and accepting, but I experience myself differently. More rage and bite.
What the 469 and the 479 have in common is the 4-9 combination (obviously). It creates a strong pull towards the fantastical, the dreamy side of reality. It makes the individual live 'outside' of reality. There's a version of the world they experience that may seem childish or ridiculous to others, but for the 4-9 individual, this realm is just as real, if not more, than what most will refer to as 'reality'. There is a longing for the ethereal, for magic. It's the realm of giants, gnomes, dragons, werewolves, and vampires. But don't be mistaken, this isn't Disney. The eye sees the hurt, the blood, the pain, the suffering. But the escapism of 9 channels this negativity into a 'separate' reality. A dreamworld.
The 479, while often looking quite "innocent" in their playfulness, has an incredibly strong streak of arrogance and self-indulgence. The 4-7 combo is extremely self-ideal oriented, and expects special treatment from the world. The self-indulgence of the 7 mixes with the need to set oneself apart from others of the 4. Where the 8 adds blunt forcefulness, and where the 1 adds on the idealistic department, the 9 softens the energy a bit, especially towards the outward world, towards others. The 7-9 combination makes for a "chill" cool guy/gal persona, often playfully teasing those who are around, but being evasive enough to not draw too much hostility towards themselves. This evasiveness also gets applied to their own struggles in life, as even with the 4 present, the tendency to make light of one's suffering is hard to shake.
Put all of this together and what you get is a person who, through their teasing and playfulness, will create an environment where both the mania and the depression are part of the play.
The 469 is more vocal about voicing negativity. The 4-6 combination gives the 'owner' a pressing need to see (and voice) the real issues, the real drama. There is a more serious tone here, painful events are more focused on and are looked at as pressing issues that need to be understood completely. Here the 8 influence would also give a more direct and blunt approach, the 1 would double down on the (mostly self-)criticism, but instead, the 9 here gives it a more surrendering theme. A surrender to one's painful fate in life. The search for a rescuer will be especially emphasized in this tritype; the 4 looks to introject the 'perfect' other, the 6 looks for outside reliability, and the 9 looks for someone to take the lead and make the tough calls for them. This tritype brings a unique insight and emphasis on the ways we have been wronged, and how there is a universality in this finding. We are all wounded, and it takes balls to be able to face this reality.
Last edited by Samson; 04-10-2017 at 06:10 AM.
Well, not necessarily exactly like that... But there you have it.WHAAAAAT YELLING AND GROWLING!!!!????? GAHHHHHHHHHHHH
Jk, exactly. It's like the heart triad where 4 expresses emotion at full blast, 3 blocks it, 2 is in between at 50/50 depending on others.
And head triad you see the same thing too with 7 = full blast, 5 = blocks it, and 6 = in between too. I'm pretty sure this is why 4-7-8 = "most flamboyant tritype" (and I call this the Glam Rocker tritype in my current snarky naming system that needs to be toned down. But really, the current tritype names just suck and say nothing of importance, so even mine is better).
In addition to the tritype names not working very well, I think the descriptions are kind of way off too. A while before I made the "yikes I'm the worst Sp 4w3 cliché" post, I had an epiphany about how enneagram really works, although outlining the actual theoretically heavy parts is going to take a lot of work and is not as important anyways since you can type everyone without that. This is overall a useful and accurate post so I'm going to end up referencing it.
Yep. I actually want to hear about your entire naming system!! The old one seemed highly inaccurate to me as well, especially since the core type sets the mood and not the 3 fixes in any combination. I don't feel like a mover shaker, for instance, just an achiever with a lot of mental and physical energy. I'd call myself "Arrogant Celebrity", or Success MachineThat wouldn't apply to a 873, for instance, they'd be "The Leader" or something. Do you already have some cool analogy for 378/783/837 etc like the Glam Rocker (which is very fitting)?
@Wyrd just got a better idea so everyone can see it, can you create a separate "Revised Tritype Names Discussion" thread on this? Or a blog post, depending on how far your developments reach.
Sp/sx makes a tougher 479 and independent more "able to endure the storm" with sp first and "idgaf" attitude of contraflow and soc last, like Stevie Nicks, so its the least gentle of the 479s.
The most gentle ones are so/sx, theyre scattered little naive children with no sense of tough reality, second sx/so..
This is great!!!
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Well. How about Sx/sps?Sp/sx makes a tougher 479 and independent more "able to endure the storm" with sp first and "idgaf" attitude of contraflow and soc last, like Stevie Nicks, so its the least gentle of the 479s.
The most gentle ones are so/sx, theyre scattered little naive children with no sense of tough reality, second sx/so..
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Björk is one, core 9
No I don't mean a famous person, I mean the tendencies or traits of 479 Sx/sps.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
One is 6 and the other is 7.
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