Misconceptions About Type You'd Like to Clear Up

[vesstheastralsilky]

What do you disagree with in common type literature about your own type?

For me, it is the notion that Si is lazy. Si is not lazy. It is very diligent. The detailed nature of Si work may skew the perspective of how much effort is put into tasks. For example, if an Si type and a non-Si type each painted a painting of the same size, it would probably take the Si type at least 10x longer but it would be 100x more detailed in high quality.

[Lord Panda]

Contrary to popular belief, Beta is indeed the coolest quadra.

On a side note, I think we are terribly misconstrued and I don't know how to fix that except for with my extensive presence on the forum.

[vesstheastralsilky]

Here is another one. It is concerning Fe affection. I will explain by example.

There are at least 100 shades of grey between giving a hug versus being engaged in sexual activity. A hug in the office does not equal an affair. Not even hardly. Nor does it indicate being close to having one behind the scenes. Nor wanting one. Enough said.

[squark]

The mustache thing. I don't have one. Then again, I'm not male.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't know, maybe the idea that IEI will fall head over heels over any bad boy thug Chad that we see. I like to play act that part because its funny, but it lacks any seriousness. I think most Chads are really boring lol.

Or, an IEI getting a crush that means the IEI will do stupid shit because of it. Like, I can realize my feelings are retarded all on my own even if they are obvious to everybody else. Doesn't mean I will get low self-esteem, become codependent, or stalk a Chad's house because I have some dumb temporary infatuation.

[sbbds]

SLE (and to an extent ESTj) are sociopathic meatlords

[Beautiful sky]

EII are pushover and doormat...yeah try that!

[Rebelondeck]

A problem with classification-based models is that specific outcomes sometimes erroneously become associated with particular classifications; the only descriptions that have validity are those related to how data would be perceived or processed, or how a perception, problem or situation would tend to be addressed - the general paths of least resistance for information processing. Because input has a higher priority than output for SXIs, this doesn't imply that they lack productivity - quite the contrary. I've encountered lazy of every type, which has more to do with upbringing and influences......

a.k.a. I/O

[Singu]

Well it seems like laziness has more to do with gains and incentives. If one thinks that there's something to be gained from the output of work being done, then he would not be lazy about it.

If you live in North Korea and they point a gun to your head saying that if you don't work your ass off then they'll blow your head off, then you're not going to be lazy.

Knowing what is to be gained from the output of work would require a particular kind of knowledge, insight and understanding. Placing values on what kind of gains are beneficial and what kind of gains are unimportant would require a hierarchical value system of what is considered to be personally important or unimportant. All these knowledge and value systems would be spontaneously and deliberately updated and revised by the person, depending on the kind of thoughts and experiences that he has or he will have.

Saying one is either lazy or not lazy in a purely observational, behavioral sense is sheer Behaviorism. It ignores the complex cognitive reality that exist inside of one's own mind, in order to decide whether one should be lazy or not, depending on the appropriateness of the situation and his psychological and physiological well-being.

[sbbds]

A problem with classification-based models is that specific outcomes sometimes erroneously become associated with particular classifications; the only descriptions that have validity are those related to how data would be perceived or processed, or how a perception, problem or situation would tend to be addressed - the general paths of least resistance for information processing. Because input has a higher priority than output for SXIs, this doesn't imply that they lack productivity - quite the contrary. I've encountered lazy of every type, which has more to do with upbringing and influences......

a.k.a. I/O

This is also an outcome, it’s just less specific.

[YXPR]

I don't like the idea that IEIs lack willpower, that they rely on Se egos for that. If anything I think Se egos are just more daring because they think less of the possible outcome. That has nothing to do with willpower.

Also I don't think that Fe is about keeping the harmony or about being emotionally positive.

I don't know if this description of Fe creative is meant to be ironic but I found it on google when looking for information about IEIs:

"Ego Block: 2nd Creative Function - Fe Extraverted Feeling

This is the IEI's second value - the skill to create positive attitudes and to improve the moods of others by his presence - which the IEI generously shares with those around him.

To all the observed phenomena the IEI responds in an impressionable and quite dynamic emotional manner. It would seem that there doesn't exist in nature such an object, person, or event, that would leave him indifferent. This quality positively predisposes other people towards Esenin. It seems unthinkable to push away a person who is so sincerely captivated and excited by everything that is good in you, who sees in you so many interesting things that even you yourself haven't even imagined. Esenin also knows how to listen, empathically looking into the eyes of his conversation partner – it would seem that he has never heard anything wiser in his lifetime! His dear, kind, modest smile is like a reflection of a ray of sun lighting up his face. Sometimes his smile is dreamy, sometimes sly, but always well-wishing, optimistic, and encouraging.

The IEI's moods are also similar to a solar beam: affable, agreeable, affectionate, lighthearted, joyful. In a romantic-dreamy state of the soul the IEI thinks distractedly on some removed topic, and the entire world acquires bright colors, becomes filled by sunlight and "sparkles of fresh dew". This blissful as a sweet opium dream state, this fairy-tale sleep, which is desirable to prolong to infinity, but which will end precisely when Esenin will consider it necessary to put an end to it. Esenin dislikes when some external stimulus interferes with this illusory-ethereal harmony – in such moments he feels as the author of the ruined creation. (It would be incorrect to think of Esenin as a kind of "drug" which is meant to cloud the head or lull to sleep from vigilance. Absolutely not! His primary psychological task is to relax his dual, Zhukov (SLE), who is often stressed and inclined to overload himself.)"

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

I won't even mention the last bit about IEI's primary psychological task being to relax SLEs.

It's not just in type descriptions it's also in the way people talk about Fe online. There seems to be some kind of consensus around that.

To be real, I believe Fe is just as good to create harmony as it is to create disharmony. To me it is just about communicating emotions/ understanding and influencing other people's emotional states.

And I don't think that an Fe ego who communicates negative emotions is necessarily "unhealthy". Actually I feel like this "unhealthy" term is usually just used to qualify people who differ from the stereotype of their sociotype. Or someone even just people whose values differ from ours actually.

[Singu]

Creates a stereotype.

Then complains about that very stereotype.

"Well it says so on the description, so it must be true".

Well it probably is true for that particular person or a group of persons that it is describing. But the description is not necessarily describing you.

[sbbds]

Creates a stereotype.

Then complains about that very stereotype.

"Well it says so on the description, so it must be true".

Well it probably is true for that particular person or a group of persons that it is describing. But the description is not necessarily describing you.

The people on here aren’t *creating* stereotypes. Maybe some are helping endorse them though. But people aren’t endorsing the same parts they disagree with. Just agreeing with some parts of an idea doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything, including the silly poorly formed stereotypes within it.

You just complained in the Making Socionics Scientific thread about people in the community taking things personally. Yet here you are making personal and unobjective complaints towards others! Hmm....

Your equally stupid, unobjective friend Uncle Ave would probably swoop in to save you, but he’s blocked my posts. Too bad for you!

[Exodus]

What do you disagree with in common type literature about your own type?

For me, it is the notion that Si is lazy. Si is not lazy. It is very diligent. The detailed nature of Si work may skew the perspective of how much effort is put into tasks. For example, if an Si type and a non-Si type each painted a painting of the same size, it would probably take the Si type at least 10x longer but it would be 100x more detailed in high quality.

That's a good point.

I could list a whole bunch of things (and I may make a blog post on it some day) but one I see a lot is this.

Yes, the "PoLR" is an extreme weakness.

NO, not every weakness is the "PoLR".

NO, not every criticism that you don't like is a "PoLR hit".

These things could have to do with other weak or unvalued functions or just being a messed up person in general.

[Exodus]

What do you disagree with in common type literature about your own type?

For me, it is the notion that Si is lazy. Si is not lazy. It is very diligent. The detailed nature of Si work may skew the perspective of how much effort is put into tasks. For example, if an Si type and a non-Si type each painted a painting of the same size, it would probably take the Si type at least 10x longer but it would be 100x more detailed in high quality.

That's a good point.

I could list a whole bunch of things (and I may make a blog post on it some day) but one I see a lot is this.

Yes, the "PoLR" is an extreme weakness.

No, not every weakness is the "PoLR".

No, not every criticism that you don't like is a "PoLR hit".

These things could have to do with other weak or unvalued functions or just character issues in general.

[Nocturne]

Personally, I would like to get rid of the whole "duality is the best relationship" concept.

... personal experience tells me it absolutely is not. Lol.

[Nocturne]

As for misconceptions about EIE's, it's that we're all scattered and histrionic or... basically Disney villains.

Some of us are certainly more stable. If Fe is used in a more suave way it's quite diplomatic.

[Number 9 large]

What do you disagree with in common type literature about your own type?

For me, it is the notion that Si is lazy. Si is not lazy. It is very diligent. The detailed nature of Si work may skew the perspective of how much effort is put into tasks. For example, if an Si type and a non-Si type each painted a painting of the same size, it would probably take the Si type at least 10x longer but it would be 100x more detailed in high quality.

actually Si itself might not necessarily be lazy, it depends on the creative function too. in which case SEIs can be lazy (laziness is the sin of the 9)

[vesstheastralsilky]

actually Si itself might not necessarily be lazy, it depends on the creative function too. in which case SEIs can be lazy (laziness is the sin of the 9)

I don't think I have ever been lazy because that implies not using ones energies. I do however have bouts of very low energy where it feels painful to push on and do things if I had recently overextended my stress reserves in some other way.

[Tallmo]

Si is in fact lazy. Or closely related to lazyness. But it depends on the type of work.

Jung on IP types:

From an extraverted and rationalistic standpoint, such types are indeed the most fruitless of men. But, viewed from a higher standpoint, such men are living evidence of the fact that this rich and varied world with its overflowing and intoxicating life is not purely external, but also exists within. These types are admittedly one sided demonstrations of Nature, but they are an educational experience for the man who refuses to be blinded by the intellectual mode of the day. In their own way, men with such an attitude are educators and promoters of culture. Their life teaches more than their words. From their lives, and not the least from what is just their greatest fault, viz. their incommunicability, we may understand one of the greatest errors of our civilization, that is, the superstitious belief in statement and presentation, the immoderate overprizing of instruction by means of word and method.

[vesstheastralsilky]

Si is in fact lazy. Or closely related to lazyness. But it depends on the type of work.

Jung on IP types:

From an extraverted and rationalistic standpoint, such types are indeed the most fruitless of men. But, viewed from a higher standpoint, such men are living evidence of the fact that this rich and varied world with its overflowing and intoxicating life is not purely external, but also exists within. These types are admittedly one sided demonstrations of Nature, but they are an educational experience for the man who refuses to be blinded by the intellectual mode of the day. In their own way, men with such an attitude are educators and promoters of culture. Their life teaches more than their words. From their lives, and not the least from what is just their greatest fault, viz. their incommunicability, we may understand one of the greatest errors of our civilization, that is, the superstitious belief in statement and presentation, the immoderate overprizing of instruction by means of word and method.

I still maintain that Si is innately diligent. I think laziness is a personal vice which has no correspondence to type. In fact, in all my jobs I tended to be the most diligent. One NT remarked that one must work smarter, not harder but working in challenges never paid off for me. Schmoozers earned more.

I would attribute my diligent ethic to my LSE father except my mother is IEI and neither of my EIE and ESI sisters are like me. My resume of tasks achieved is extremely long. Doing heavy detailed work can bring on fatigue but I lived my 20s doing everything for everybody else, constantly too busy type Aish. I had to teach myself that it is ok to slow down and take a breather and work at the pace of my associates instead of always trying and being the fastest to get things done. But part of my SP nature likes the rush and thrill of that. It doesn't necessarily work in one's favor if money is time though because then being fast and efficient as I have often been told on the job I am ends up shortchanging you or carrying the load too often for the group.

Being SEI, I inherently put more trust in real measurable experience than only some Te about someone's theory. Everyone has theories and not all concepts are correct unless validated by observation. Oy, science!

[vesstheastralsilky]

@Tallmo, I will say this though - Se types are less in touch with their bodies than Si types and so are able to consciously sleep less and ignore the discomfort in their bodies more if they get fatigued.

[Tallmo]

I still maintain that Si is innately diligent. I think laziness is a personal vice which has no correspondence to type. In fact, in all my jobs I tended to be the most diligent. One NT remarked that one must work smarter, not harder but working in challenges never paid off for me. Schmoozers earned more.

I would attribute my diligent ethic to my LSE father except my mother is IEI and neither of my EIE and ESI sister's are like me. My resume of tasks achieved is extremely long. Doing heavy detailed work can bring on fatigue but I lived my 20s sound everything for everybody else, constantly too busy type Aish. I had to teach myself that it is ok to slow down and take a breather and work at the pace of my associates instead of always trying and being the fastest to get things done. But part of my SP nature likes the rush and thrill of that. It doesn't necessarily work in one's favor if money is time though because then being fast and efficient as I have often been told on the job I am ends up shortvhanging you or carrying the load too often for the group.

It's pretty obvious from looking at lots of SEIs that they are usually pretty lazy, especially if they are not neurotic. Si makes you aware of inner sensations so no wonder. But it depends on the kind of work. Unfortunately most work is poorly suited for Si. It also depends on the perspective, as Jung says.

[vesstheastralsilky]

It's pretty obvious from looking at lots of SEIs that they are usually pretty lazy, especially if they are not neurotic. Si makes you aware of inner sensations so no wonder. But it depends on the kind of work. Unfortunately most work is poorly suited for Si. It also depends on the perspective, as Jung says.

I think you found our common ground. It depends on the kind of work. I can't run for miles like some types can for example. It is impossible. Yet many others can't spend 40 hours in 2 weeks on one painting like I can. So the lazy label could apply to anyone depending on the task but fairness is needed because any type can be faced with tasks they are adverse to.

[Aylen]

@vesstheastralsilky

You appear to have way more Ne than all your duals here combined, in writing at least. This is just an observation from all your threads and opinions since I attempted to compare you to SEI I know. They would be of the lazier variety (maybe E9). That is just how others perceive them anyway.

I tend to see J types as more diligent than p types but I have seen an article that mentions SEI being diligent and modest. The same article said ILE, IEI, SEE, ESI and LSE are also diligent without the modest part. I don't see Si, as a discrete function, innately diligent.

You surely break the stereotype of SEI and maybe even the system by using so much Ne. I have often wondered if we are just as drawn to our lead function as our suggestive function. In a different way. I also observed people express a lot of admiration for those who share their lead function and/or use it skillfully.

Description of Ne from "Dual Nature of Man" by A. Augusta

Black (extroverted) intuition

Perceives information about objects' potential energy — for example, information about the physical and mental abilities and potential of a person. This perception grants the ability to understand the structure of objects and phenomena and grasp their inner content. This element determines a person's ability or inability to see the real potential energy of one's surroundings.

When this element is in the leading position, the individual has pronounced cognitive interests. This individual is constantly studying underlying phenomena, which he/she is able to communicate to others quite successfully by making complicated things simple. Such a person enjoys explaining his understanding of things to others. Under favorable conditions, he/she becomes a scientist or writer. He/she can find optimal ways of increasing the potential energy of objects. "Energizes" other people around him with his understanding of the possibilities and potential of the surrounding objects.

Wikisocion description of Ne

Extroverted intuition () is an extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called Ne, I, intuition of possibilities, or black intuition.

Ne is generally associated with the ability to recognize possibilities, create new opportunities and new beginnings, recognize talent and natural propensities in others, reconcile differing perspectives and viewpoints, rapidly generate ideas, and be led by one's intellectual curiosity and stimulate curiosity in others.
Types that value Ne prefer to try out an opportunity rather than consider all possible ways in which it could not work out. They pick a few options and stick with them, in contrast to introverted intuition Ni types who pick one option and continue to doubt that option.

They enjoy discussing unusual insights into the nature of the world and crazy out-there ideas, like space elevators. Typical Ne quadra humor juxtaposes seemingly unrelated phenomena.

as a base (1st) function (ILE and IEE)

The individual is skilled at generating intellectual interest and curiosity in others and using others' curiosity to get them to do things.

He easily sees parallels between different situations, areas of knowledge or skill, and people, and likes to establish contacts across different fields of knowledge and social groups, which allows him to be part of many things at once. He enjoys considering differing viewpoints and perspectives and seeing if they can be reconciled.
He enjoys the beginning stages of just about anything - new projects, acquiring new skills, experiencing new people and relationships. Preparing for and launching something new is seen as having greater value than the process of experiencing what one already has and finishing what one has begun. The concept of "finishing" seems foreign to him. Instead of taking care to finish things and tie up all loose ends, he tends to drop things when he can't handle them any longer or realize that he has neglected them for too long (this might be equally related to suggestive introverted sensing).

as a suggestive (5th) function (SEI and SLI)

The individual has great respect and admiration for people who are always pursuing something new and different and are not tied down to material things. He easily becomes attached to people who believe in his potential and praise him for his unique skills.

He rarely emphasizes his talents, unique experience, or singularity publicly, but prefers to seem like "your average guy" so that others can relate to him easily. However, he is more open about his unique attributes in close personal relationships. He is sensitive about his talents and uniqueness because so often uniqueness creates distance between people rather than closeness. He dreams of having his uniqueness recognized, welcomed, and fostered by a close group, but "just in case" avoids emphasizing his uniqueness and talents in new or large group situations.

Since he finds it difficult to identify what unique talents he has, this often results in a tendency to avoid setting long-term career goals.

[The Reality Denialist]

Base is what is observable of the person in his/her natural state.


Hence I find it much more interesting flex it external world. I don't know how I do it but some say that I like to explain hard things understandably when the space is clear and inner motivation exists. It is not about a, b and c. That would be just banal. Break the barriers inside of mind objectively. People have said that I talk like an expressive scientist. Sometimes models of thought are bulletproof but it does not clearly express the mechanisms it establishes and this one takes some dedication and motivation to mull it over several times.

[khcs]

EII are pushover and doormat...yeah try that!

I am afraid that you are not an INFJ, but an extrovert.

[Exodus]

I still maintain that Si is innately diligent. I think laziness is a personal vice which has no correspondence to type. In fact, in all my jobs I tended to be the most diligent. One NT remarked that one must work smarter, not harder but working in challenges never paid off for me. Schmoozers earned more.

I would attribute my diligent ethic to my LSE father except my mother is IEI and neither of my EIE and ESI sisters are like me. My resume of tasks achieved is extremely long. Doing heavy detailed work can bring on fatigue but I lived my 20s doing everything for everybody else, constantly too busy type Aish. I had to teach myself that it is ok to slow down and take a breather and work at the pace of my associates instead of always trying and being the fastest to get things done. But part of my SP nature likes the rush and thrill of that. It doesn't necessarily work in one's favor if money is time though because then being fast and efficient as I have often been told on the job I am ends up shortchanging you or carrying the load too often for the group.

Being SEI, I inherently put more trust in real measurable experience than only some Te about someone's theory. Everyone has theories and not all concepts are correct unless validated by observation. Oy, science!

Since you keep on bringing up your type I may as well mention that this would make a lot more sense if you had bold Se. SEIs can be diligent in a kind of slow, measured way but the "constantly too busy type" they are not. Nor are they generally thrill-seeking.

[Beautiful sky]

I’m afraid you don’t know how to type.

I am afraid that you are not an INFJ, but an extrovert.

[vesstheastralsilky]

Since you keep on bringing up your type I may as well mention that this would make a lot more sense if you had bold Se. SEIs can be diligent in a kind of slow, measured way but the "constantly too busy type" they are not. Nor are they generally thrill-seeking.

But Se is my ignoring function. I am very unathletic and afraid to be assertive in daily mundane life off the internet. I would never be a thrillseeker like enjoying motorcycles for example. But I enjoy speed when driving and other physical sensations sometimes to break up the usual calm I feel.

[khcs]

I’m afraid you don’t know how to type.

Vesstheastralsilky and you have the same type and both of you mistype yourselves. It is interesting...

[vesstheastralsilky]

Vesstheastralsilky and you have the same type and both of you mistype yourselves. It is interesting...

Well like @Beautiful sky I tend to not agree with your typings. I don't think I have agreed with one yet. But it takes time to learn typing correctly so I'm not trying to make you feel bad or discourage your studies. It could be helpful to know what kinds of datasets you tend to rely on to arrive at your conclusions.

[khcs]

Well like @Beautiful sky I tend to not agree with your typings. I don't think I have agreed with one yet. But it takes time to learn typing correctly so I'm not trying to make you feel bad or discourage your studies. It could be helpful to know what kinds of datasets you tend to rely on to arrive at your conclusions.

Those typing results are pretty accurate. You could learn a lot from them. What a pity. Look, here is another subtype of you.

[vesstheastralsilky]

Those typing results are pretty accurate. You could learn a lot from them. What a pity. Look, here is another subtype of you.

No I am actually not like her at all. She looks a little LSI maybe but it is not necessarily a characteristic VI pose here. VI contains more poses than features.

I still read your posts and consider them though out of respect.

[khcs]

No I am actually not like her at all. She looks a little LSI maybe but it is not necessarily a characteristic VI pose here. VI contains more poses than features.

I still read your posts and consider them though out of respect.

Is this a "Characteristic VI Pose" you have mentioned? Thank you for reading the posts.

[vesstheastralsilky]

Is this a "Characteristic VI Pose" you have mentioned? Thank you for reading the posts.

Yes that is a more characteristic pose simply because there is emphasis, assuming this is a typical expression. She seems like a Ti type to me based on this pic. How do you type her?

[khcs]

Yes that is a more characteristic pose simply because there is emphasis, assuming this is a typical expression. She seems like a Ti type to me based on this pic. How do you type her?

Same type as you but a different variant.

[vesstheastralsilky]

Same type as you but a different variant.

I'm inclined to think she is LSI from that pic.

My ex-fiance another ex and some friends of mine were LSIs. Some even tested as such. The Benefit relations description fit well in retrospect.

There can indeed be some subtleties around the rings of benefit.

[khcs]

I'm inclined to think she is LSI from that pic.

Do you really think that her type is ISTJ or ISTP?

[vesstheastralsilky]

Do you really think that her type is ISTJ or ISTP?

Now in that pic I just see Ti again. In cases like this I would gather more data from other avenues too like quotations or something to get more firm in my typing because there are still some grey areas based on my experiences with people.