Leader in each Quadra
In your experience, which type do you often see leading their Quadra? By leadership I mean being center-stage of the group, the group relying on them to lead them on activities, in charge of the quadra, and who you intuitively feel is the leader at first sight.
Let's not get into this whole "define leadership" nonsense. I just defined the parameters for you.
Any of the Extrovert types.
(as in they are the ones you will see doing the "leading". Other types could be the actual behind the scenes leaders but /shrug)
Yeah, that's where the issue comes in. I would see ESE, LSI, LIE, and LSE as the leaders.Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts
I never got the impression that there was a 'leader' in the alpha groups I was a part of...there were a few more vocal personalities (people I suspect to be ENTp or ESFj), but the distribution of influence within the group was pretty evenly spread. We always voted on activities and it seemed as if most of the members contributed their fair share to the group.
Clear-cut leadership within a social group seems like more of a Beta thing. I'm not sure Gammas care much for that sort of thing either...their groups seem like 'cliques'.
Last edited by suedehead; 03-09-2014 at 05:58 PM.
According to this http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p..._Benefit_Rings its
Alphas - ILE
Betas - EIE
Gammas - SEE
Deltas - LSE
MBTI: INTJ
Socionics:ILI (Ni-Fi)
Enneagram Type: 5w4
Enneagram Tritype: Head-5, Gut-9 Heart-4
Instinctal Stacking: Sp/Sx Mid
Jung's 12 Archetypes: Self-Sage, Ego-Hero, Soul-Rebel
It seems like in my group it's ENFj. That's not just Betas though.
Leadership = overrated. Grey eminence is where it's at.
Is it only because you're grey?
intj is most fit to lead alpha even if not most immediately inclined.
According to SHS it's the "right/evolutionary" extroverts that are most capable and usually sufficiently 'impressive' to assume such leading roles. These are ILE (α), EIE (β), SEE (γ), and LSE (δ).
Yay.
Tough one. I'd be willing to bet it's evenly split, and/or depending upon the individual. My LSE Mother-in-Law and I work very well together as a team. She has some incredible solutions for logistical problems, and is very quick to think up ideas and take action. However, she often gets a little emotionally involved when decisions are being made on behalf of many individuals, and I'm able to step in and provide the executive decision when I see she's overwhelmed.
I can see it being situational, although I'd love hear about other leadership styles and advantages in Delta.
And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30
Yeah totally agree. When it comes to centre stage of the four deltas I see IEE being it, followed by LSE, followed by EII, followed by SLI. Have to say that friendship ties them together (Fi), but necessity (Te and Si), and opportunity (Ne), cause this group to come together then split apart fluidly. When it's just the activity partners I would say IEE leads the LSE more, idk, vigorously? then the EII, who takes turns leading with SLI. Actually the two introverts seem, ime, try to not take the lead with one another in a very non-commital fashion that suits them fine, "I don't know, what does IEE want to do?", "I'm not sure, but I (EII), will probably just end up following you guys (LSE, IEE, SLI) if that's what we are all wanting to do". This discussion of plans can go on until LSE becomes impatient and sets in motion the impetuous by just going ahead and starting. The rest follow in line for as much as it suits their inclinations, then a WHOLE another set a discussions of what everyone wants to due ensues.
IME, it is very difficult to keep this group together unless each party wants it. If the Fi is strong enough between them, they will make the effort. I think its sort of an interplay of leadership depending on the circumstance, with energy and impetuous coming from the two extrotrams, and discussion and "jokes" coming from the introtrams.
The closer these types become with each other, the more comfortable each person becomes in taking on non-traditional roles, with the LSE and the IEE stepping back and letting the introtrams make decisions for the group.
The way I look at it is like this: imagine all four of them are on vacation, say in Mexico. The bonds between them are very strong, yet the need to participate in group activities, for instance everyone going to the same areas of town at a festival, seem to disappear. They all split off going there own ways depending on inclination, perhaps the EII takes off with the SLI to gawk at new people, and the LSE stays with his IEE friend to gossip about whatever it is they gossip about. Then later on, everyone meets up as if the separation had never happened.
The definite leader is the IEE cause they are the figurative heart of the quadra, but the LSE and his/her moods, plans, wishes, adventures are usually the ones followed by everybody.
SLI always seems to be "on for the ride".
Last edited by wacey; 03-10-2014 at 03:01 AM.
That sounds like a nice relationship.
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
^Totally.
ESE, SLE, LIE, IEE
It's always the dual of the stabilizer of the quadra which are LII IEI ESI SLI
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
this thread, so derp
I disagree about extroverts being leaders, I think introverts naturally have people pay more attention to them, because we think about things intensely - and people are drawn to that. Besides its kinda like when an introvert does speak, people listen to it like its the gospel. whereas talking is just so natural for an extrovert, they are less likely to say something profound. (its just a perception ppl tend to have I noticed, of course you can be both profound and extroverted.)
extroverts are really just common slaveboys, like the actual idea of a business was most likely some narcisistic introvert's' idea where the extrovert just 'makes it happen' via people pushing and constant talking. Extroverts are just warriors serving their kings, the introverts.
(btw i agree with what God said on facebook, that the key to self actualization is for introverts to act more extroverted and extroverts to act introverted.) It's weirdly psychologically healing.
all the threads are derp, why you so critical?
I think it all depends on what situation is needing a leader. My interpretation of the OP was that Transkar was wondering who is the "protector", or the one who stands out most the quadra. I think each type could lead, but you must have noticed stand outs when all four quadra members get together? In the guadra I precieve to belong to, it is the extrotrams that stand out. Maybe in beta its the introverts?
yeah I'm not sure, both estps and istjs have that quality in the beta quadra.
idk i was thinking too mbti-ishly, which I kicked myself over, but a lot of leaders seem really introverted to me (especially uppity professionals who are successful in singular areas), I think the forum has a tendency to think of introverts as really victim-y though lol.
Honestly I see it as the EIE and the IEI. The EIE standing out the most. I just saying in a vacume of only betas in the show, which one is running the show so to speak of the four. I know what you mean by the introverts and MBTI, I think thats the nice thing about socionics cause the quadra leader isn't always the extrotrams. In the gamma four, I suggest the ESI is the group leader.
like for example, wasn't ****** introverted? and he was a leader technically lol.
Haha, but what was hilter like surrounded by only quadra members?
well i see IEIs as leaders too. look at how many people followed in 16types adventures footsteps. Six maybe? but still... technically I led something. =p
Is that the long story you wrote? I meant to give you props, holy cow!
This thread, despite being of approximately equal derpiness to all of the other derpy threads, when plotted on a logarithmic scale of derp to achieve a greater sensitivity to derpiness is seen to be noteworthily derp.all the threads are derp, why you so critical?
i like your thinking on this one.
I feel like this thread is particularly fun for myself. I guess that makes me a derp. So be it.
In my quadra experience which is kind of lame because I only work with an SLE, she is definitely the leader. She is out there doing things, whether they need to be done or not, ha! I am usually running behind her saying, wait! If things were left up to me, not as much would get done, because I am overthinking things. She underthinks, but is the one actually leading.
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k
Extraverts dance; introverts call the tune.
I didn't wear skinny fit jeans last night in honor of my bros -- know what I mean?
Alpha - ESE
Beta - SLE
Gamma - SEE
Delta - LSE
Basically the extroverted sensors lead the activity of the group, but it should be mentioned that it's the introverted intuitives that come up with the basic ideology. The extroverted intuitive tweaks the ideology along the way, and the introverted sensors tweak the activity.
So in an alpha group, the LII comes up with a system of logic, the ESE acts on it and draws everyone else into it, the ILE continually adjusts the logic to be temporally relevant, the SEI continually tweaks the activity to be spatially relevant/harmonious.
Gamma is built on the backs of ILIs.
Ne-ILEs are softies and considerate (most of the time) .I fink i'd let them lead or sth,if applicable
depends.mb they could just be Hands?
Hmm I've been thinking more about this and it seems wrong. Seems more like the introverted intuitive is the END POINT, the destabilizer of the group's ideology rather than its initiator and the starting point for the next quadra. Each quadra would still be lead by the extroverted sensor of the group, but they'd be carrying the philosophy of the previous quadra.
So in Alpha- ESE would lead the activity and draw everyone else into it based on EII ideas, ILE would adjust them across time, SEI would adjust the activity across space (perfecting it), and the LII would take in the existing ideology and create an alternate version.
Beta- SLE would lead guided by LII ideas, EIE perfects philosophy across time, LSI perfects activity across space, IEI takes in existing philosophy and creates a new norm.
Gamma- SEE leads based on the norms established by IEIs, LIE adjusts them across time, ESI adjusts activity across space, ILI soaks in existing ideology and creates a new standard.
Delta- LSE carries the ideology of ILI and leads the group, IEE perfects this ideology across time, SLI smooths activity across space, EII absorbs ideology and creates a new norm, leading back to alpha.
*shrug* it may not work out in reality like this, but I like the symmetry of it, lol.
Gamma: SEE, the other gamma types could be better leaders, could have better ideas, and could even have clearer vision but put simply they wouldn't be inclined to form or maintain a group. Gammas are just fine being individuals, SEEs being the comparative outlier.
Easy Day
It's hard to choose between LIE and SEE for Gamma quadra leader. I see both as inclined to forming groups, but for the LIE, it's more about having hands on deck to get things done.
SEEs have the social upper hand over LIEs, and there's a certain power to that when it comes to leading. People might also want to help the SEE with something, compared to feeling urged to do something by the LIE.
This is why I say ILIs are the leader right here. They're not even on anybody's radar, even within their own quadra. They have no idea the ways in which they are pawns to the ILI, the unsung hero.
I rest my case.
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