The Activation of Identity

[Cat King Cole]

Conventional descriptions of Activity describe a relationship that "over-energises" each partner until they burn out. The essence of this seems to be a positive feedback loop.

With other ISFps, I've found that we often wind up in very energising creative-Fe competitions. At the moment, this is manifesting for me as increasing attempts to get an ISFp I know to laugh, intensified by my own amusement at trying to get reactions out of her. In the past it's manifested as general trading of trivia and prods to get reactions out of the other, in a general Alpha Fe kind of an atmosphere.

OTOH Activity has usually been one where I can talk for hours and come away smiling, albeit without the emotionally rejuvenating effect of duality. I think my interactions with my Identicals are far more "activating" than with my Activators.

[pianosinger]

I think the "over-activation" in Activity relations comes from the Base-Mobilizing interaction. One's Mobilizing function is the other's Base function. Since your Mobilizing function is an area in which you actively pursue improvement, being with your Activator can cause an over-emphasis on your Mobilizing function-- even moreso than usual-- which at first can be a lot of fun and make you feel really good about yourself and the productive interaction between you and your partner; however, if left "turned on" for too long, it can cause you to grow overwhelmed and exhausted, since the Mobilizing function is weak. As soon as you are able to "break away" from the influence of your "overbearing" Activator, you will finally feel a release from the psychological pressure of your Hidden Agenda and return to your more comfortable Base.

Maybe the same sort of thing could happen with Identity. Since if one of you is putting more emphasis on your shared Base/Ego, the other might feel more of a necessity to focus on the HA/Super-Id.

[Cat King Cole]

I've never found myself exhausted by what I assume is Ti.

What I find with my activators is that they naturally draw more Fe out of me, as well as more Si, but usually in the sense of being able to offer detailed analyses of things, rather than asking after their health and if the decoration is pleasant or whatever Si is stereotyped as being about. The proportions of what they draw out are different to my duals, who draw out of the Si analysis/insight and relatively less Fe.

Basically, I can see how LIIs encourage more of an ESE persona from me, while ILEs draw out a hyper-SEI version of myself, either through Ti and Ne passivity, or through relaxing my Introtim tendency to meet people through my Creative function (Fe).

[Jonathan]

My understanding of Activation partners and the phenomenon of so-called over-stimulation is a little different from the ordinary theory. I don't think there's anything magical about the "activation" function just because it's called that or is in a certain place in Model A.

However, what I think may happen with Activity Partners is this: People tend to be receptive to their dual function, which happens to be the other person's creative, so that they act on stuff coming out of the creative function. But sometimes people use the creative function to "try things out" and may not mean them to be taken as seriously as the base function. Hence, if people aren't careful, they may give too much weight to certain suggestions and go off doing things without enough consideration.

[Beautiful sky]

Imagine me and an ISTp going into a cozy room; I'm looking around for things to do and he's saying "relax", let's just hang out. I relax and hand out, then he wants to sleep for a few hours and after that he assumes a comfortable position and wants to eat cooking for another hour....that turns into lots of hours where nothing is being actually done. And furthermore, he's laying there suggesting I do some Te, which I don't naturally and so I have no choice but to join him and relax, in a comfortable position, for hours. I pick up on all this comfy, cozy, pleasure and suggest some more of it, from my suggestive function, offering some hot chocolate and find just enough energy to pull myself up and make a huge mug of it, where more time is spent just doing more pleasurable things.

After realizing socionics, it gets to be way too much for me to handle all this Si.

[Galen]

And furthermore, he's laying there suggesting I do some Te

functions are not actions.

[Beautiful sky]

functions are not actions.

suggestions; believe me. My dual cousin's married to an SLI and she complains that all he suggests is Te; she says, "It's always about work; just about work," in a really sad tone, as if she wants more...Me

[Galen]

suggestions.

No I'm talking about "do some Te." How does one "do" Te? How does one "do" any IE? They are not actions that people do, they never have been.


Anywho, in reference to the OP, I've never experienced that around other ENFps. It's kind of relaxing around them to speak to someone who actually gets you for a change, but I wouldn't say I'm particularly 'activated' by them in the same way I am by delta ST's. There's an obvious reason as to why you feel activated by ISFps, but you don't acknowledge it as true so never mind.

[Beautiful sky]

No I'm talking about "do some Te." How does one "do" Te? How does one "do" any IE? They are not actions that people do, they never have been.

One does Fi by empathy and a lot of other things; they do it by talking about it; functions are information metabolism that produce speech as a result of how things get metabolized.

[Galen]

One does Fi by empathy and a lot of other things; they do it by talking about it; functions are information metabolism that produce speech as a result of how things get metabolized.

Fi is not empathy, I know ENTps who empathise with and try to comfort people, and do it well. It is a relatively common human faculty that all healthy people should understand. Try again.

[Beautiful sky]

Fi is not empathy, I know ENTps who empathise with and try to comfort people, and do it well. It is a relatively common human faculty that all healthy people should understand. Try again.

Nope, you're wrong, but let's not go into this.

[Galen]

Nope, you're wrong

welp that shut me up

[Cat King Cole]

Hence, if people aren't careful, they may give too much weight to certain suggestions and go off doing things without enough consideration.

Aha, that works very well. That's one of the reasons I enjoy playing WoW with Neotropic so much, he draws out my impulsive Idiot Hero side for sure.

When I'm playing with Neo: "Let's do something completely reckless for the lulz, see if we can pull it off."

When I was playing with an ILE: "Let's do something awesome, think you can keep up?"

I attributed this to having more ESE-like Se drawn out, but that's a very convoluted and inelegant explanation compared to yours, cheers

This would also seem to account for the creative function arms race I alluded to in my first post, as well. Creative functions are really resistant to being told what to do, but also want to engage other people (being your cognitive output channel). Identity partners thus wind up in a push-pull dynamic where one makes an attempt to engage the other with their Creative, but is knocked back; this then leads to a redoubled effort, which in turn gets knocked back, etc. Newton's third law in all its glory.

What's interesting is that this raises how sensitive Socionics's functions are to social influences. When Identicals wind up in a teacher-student relationship, the Creative competition is suppressed in favour of natural resonance through the Base function.

I'd love to hear your further thoughts on all this, Jonathan.

[golden]

.

[krieger]

my experience with activity relations has been exactly that there is resonance and comfort, but too little activation. duality is what gets the boundaries between introversion and extroversion crossed.

i don't think this is simply because my activity relation is one between two introverts.

[Cat King Cole]

but you don't acknowledge it as true so never mind.

Truth? Are you calling me a liar, or an idiot?

[Cat King Cole]

Truth? Are you calling me a liar, or an idiot?

Let me expand on this--

What is beyond frustrating is that you isolate tiny little things that service your presumptions about my type, and then jump on them as evidence, going "Aha! Proof!!!!" when they really aren't.

For instance, I neglected to mention the full scope of dynamics between myself and my identicals, other ISFps. I also didn't raise my relationships with other people of other types [i]because this thread is not about my type[i]. My type is not wrong. Your hypocritical emotional investment in my type is what's wrong.

Beyond the scope of this topic are plenty of pieces of evidence that run counter to your little theory that I'm an ILE, such as my relationships with other people of other types.

Pieces of evidence which you bull-headedly ignore, no matter how I try to explain them to you. Your problem is that you don't think clearly, and you can't rationally weigh or redress your own dogmatic fixations upon your delusions. Try thinking critically for a change, and actually weigh up what I have to say rather than blindly batting it down as useless nonsense.

The difference between me and you is I've done that weighing, and the worth of your opinion is naught, being born of faulty and muddled thinking, sustained solely by a dulled ability to critically evaluate your own thought, and a fierce and stubborn resistance to having that faulty and muddled thinking corrected or repaired.

A fool is a fool through no fault of his own, but an idiot is an intractable mental criminal.

Don't raise my type again in this thread.

[Beautiful sky]

Cat...you're answering to your own post, my dear. LOL

Makes you look like you're arguing with yourself. If that's what you're doing, then fine...entertaining, but totally fine.

[Cat King Cole]

Proper typing methodology 101:

The good method: I have frequent fights with Galen. This could point to any number of things, intertype being one. If this is the case, Galen or I may be mistyped.

I should wait and observe some more, before deciding one way or another what his type is, or if I'm mistyped.

The wrong method: I think CKC is mistyped. He just said something ambiguous that superficially confirms my preconceptions!

I'm going to jump on it without looking deeper into the issue or considering how I might be wrong.

IF YOU HAVE A BIAS, ADJUST FOR IT. LEARN HOW YOU THINK, LEARN HOW YOU THINK WRONG. THEN THINK RIGHT, OR AS CLOSE TO IT AS YOU CAN. IF YOU CAN'T DESPITE YOUR EFFORTS, DON'T POLLUTE THE WORLD OUTSIDE WITH YOUR INABILITY TO THINK CLEARLY OR CRITICALLY. IF YOU POLLUTE THE WORLD OUTSIDE ANYWAY, AND SOMEONE CORRECTS YOU, ADJUST YOUR THOUGHTS AGAIN.

Print that out, tattoo it on your forehead, graft it onto your soul, I don't care.

Learn. It.

[Galen]

Truth? Are you calling me a liar, or an idiot?

I'm calling you ENTp.

Proper typing methodology 101:

The good method: I have frequent fights with Galen. This could point to any number of things, intertype being one. If this is the case, Galen or I may be mistyped.

I should wait and observe some more, before deciding one way or another what his type is, or if I'm mistyped.

At this point this seems like a good course of action, as well as a good thing to take into account. Weren't you saying I was Gamma anyway, or at least making passing suggestions towards it?

[Cat King Cole]

Yes, I have a vague impression that you might not be IEE, but at this point I have no real strong case one way or another as to whether you're IEE, ESI, or something else altogether.

Sorry for snapping erupting into a scathing diabtribe. Perfectionism aside, what's frustrating is that I'm offering you the benefit of the doubt, while I'm not being offered that same thing in return. If you can stop making categorical statements about the truth or falsity of my self-typing, I'll stop jumping down your throat about being an "idiot". Truce?

EDIT

And thanks for being the bigger man and not biting back. Appreciated.

[Computer Loser]

My activity bro constantly asks me to "do stuff" for him, when all I want to do is sit and rest. I tell him "not now, later" and he's more "no, not later, NOW." So its like he wants Se from me all the time, which feels draining and "overstimulating."

And he's one of the few people that can crack me up like a madman once he goes into his teasing, Fe-mode. (Like laughing so hard, tears come out)

[717495]

welp that shut me up

Haha.

I don't like this socio street lingo either, Galen. We must ban together to exile it.

[717495]

Anyone notice how if you take a conversation with maritsa and just mute everyone else, it sounds exactly like a perfectly formed conversation with herself? First it goes: this is how it is you just worded it wrong, then: wait but it's actually this way trust me. Lastly she says: No. You're wrong.

[Galen]

Yes, I have a vague impression that you might not be IEE, but at this point I have no real strong case one way or another as to whether you're IEE, ESI, or something else altogether.

Fair enough, that seems to be what Aleksei is saying too (not that that's related to how you're thinking).

Sorry for snapping erupting into a scathing diabtribe. Perfectionism aside, what's frustrating is that I'm offering you the benefit of the doubt, while I'm not being offered that same thing in return. If you can stop making categorical statements about the truth or falsity of my self-typing, I'll stop jumping down your throat about being an "idiot". Truce?

I can't make any promises for the future, but I can try. Admittedly 'truth' was a poor choice of words, so I take that part back and replace it with something that's uhm, not that.

[Jonathan]

functions are not actions.

I think the issue is that sometimes people abbreviate conceptually instead of giving examples, so that there's no way we can evaluate. If someone says that someone else suggested doing "some Te," we're basically asked to take at face value that the person correctly identified it as Te and that the person doing the suggesting was actually requesting the other person to partake in that function. Since people's conceptions of these terms are so different, it's hard for others to evaluate or identify with what really happened without concrete examples.