About ESFps and Fi

[Beautiful sky]

How does an SEE create Fi and get an ILI to be suggested by it? What does the SEE say or do exactly? Any examples?

[Jarno]

How does an SEE create Fi and get an ILI to be suggested by it? What does the SEE say or do exactly? Any examples?

story telling?

[Nico1e]

I just started working the other day with a new SEE coworker, so I can tell it from a SLI point of view. I felt that I liked him and trusted him very quickly. He didn't smile very much or make jokes - he was serious and had a quiet voice. He was talking about himself and his other job, the job that he actually cares about, his 'real' job, where he runs a music recording studio, and he gives a lot of the money to charity. He told me that his brother died of a drug overdose, and that this influenced his values and beliefs. He described a lot of ethical reasons why he was interested in giving to charity, what it meant to him personally, what his beliefs are. He told me about being a vegetarian. Basically he talked a lot about why he does what he does at his real business. We had only just met and we were talking like this after only a short time together.

Something that I recognized as being similar to another Gamma ESI coworker: This new SEE guy had a 'symbol,' a little bracelet with words written on it in a foreign language, and he told me what it meant to him. It was very similar to the tattoo that the ESI coworker showed me. The words on the bracelet meant something like 'hidden force.' The ESI coworker's tattoo meant 'soul fly,' or 'flight of the soul' or something like that - he said it meant to be free, to value liberty. I interpret this as their connection with Ni: they are looking for symbols that have deep mystical meanings to them. They talk about these things with a feeling of deepness and mystical power, something beyond ordinary reality. The 'hidden forces' are something that serves the needs of their ethics.

I myself didn't respond much, I just listened. So I don't necessarily respond to their Fi by blurting out a bunch of Te right at that exact moment. I respond by feeling a sense of trust and realness and relaxation when I am with the Fi-Gammas (the SEE and ESI). I feel more relaxed and comfortable with the SEE than I do with the ESI.

Whenever I talk about 'how some piece of machinery works' or 'why that thing is malfunctioning and what to do about it,' and that kind of thing, or if I mention some piece of knowledge, some kind of 'fact,' the Fi types listen to me - I can see them paying close attention. But they do not necessarily say anything, they just listen and pick up on it. The Fi males pay attention and listen to my 'facts' when I'm talking about machinery. The Fi females, on the other hand, love to come to me and tell me all about what's going on in their relationships.

I don't have any Delta Fi's in my workplace, but I have lots and lots of Gamma Fi's.

[Jarno]

I don't have any Delta Fi's in my workplace, but I have lots and lots of Gamma Fi's.

Where the fuck do you work, it sounds like heaven to me

[Galen]

How does one 'create' Fi in the first place?

[Suz]

How does one 'create' Fi in the first place?

I could see Fi being a creatable entity actually. Especially when it's "creative" Fi. e.g to proactively create relationships to various degrees of proximity, establish conditions conducive to bringing someone psychologically closer or farther away, etc. I see that as creating Fi. Am I off?

[Suz]

How does one 'create' Fi in the first place?

Maybe it's more like energy.

Can't really "create" or destroy it, but (at best) just transform it.

Yeah I like the word "transform" to describe it, that's a good way of putting things.

[Nico1e]

I don't have any Delta Fi's in my workplace, but I have lots and lots of Gamma Fi's.

Where the fuck do you work, it sounds like heaven to me

McDonald's For whatever reason there are loads of gamma SFs there, both male and female. We also have some LSIs and someone who I suspect is an EIE, and a few other people from other quadras, almost all of them S types, and almost no N types unless they're upper management.

[consentingadult]

Jesus is the cruel sausage....

[Galen]

How does one 'create' Fi in the first place?

I could see Fi being a creatable entity actually. Especially when it's "creative" Fi. e.g to proactively create relationships to various degrees of proximity, establish conditions conducive to bringing someone psychologically closer or farther away, etc. I see that as creating Fi. Am I off?

I don't go about my business "creating" relationships; not proactively at any rate. That's always been a much more passive process, something I'm ultimately very aware of but don't have to contemplate very much.
Also Fi != relationships.

How does one 'create' Fi in the first place?

Maybe it's more like energy.

Can't really "create" or destroy it, but (at best) just transform it.

Still not sure what this means. What is there to create, destroy, or transform?

[Beautiful sky]

How does an SEE create Fi and get an ILI to be suggested by it? What does the SEE say or do exactly? Any examples?

This assumes that it is the SEE is taking the initiative, which ime typically is not the case. It is more likely the ILI sending out signals of an Fi-Mobilizing nature, to which the SEE (or IEE) responds by returning creative Fi. In plain language: the ILI will send out subconscious signals of loneliness or sorrow and a need for attachment, to which the SEE will respond by taking the actual steps for creating a bond.

Do you mean verbal signals? What do they say?

This assumes that it is the SEE is taking the initiative, which ime typically is not the case. It is more likely the ILI sending out signals of an Fi-Mobilizing nature, to which the SEE (or IEE) responds by returning creative Fi. In plain language: the ILI will send out subconscious signals of loneliness or sorrow and a need for attachment, to which the SEE will respond by taking the actual steps for creating a bond.

Interesting. This is a little off topic, but could it also be said that the following is the case with Ti and Fe types?:
ILE and SLE – complain that they are boring, not fun, or socially awkward - or like you said, send out subconscious signals of... well, in this case.. boredom, awkwardness or a bad mood? hmm
SEI and IEI – respond by ensuring that is not true and then bringing out the Ti ego's silliness, or uplifting the atmosphere, etc. etc.

Still not sure what this means. What is there to create, destroy, or transform?

I think you're taking it a little too literally.

I haven't, personally, ever heard SLE types say that; being extraverts, they are driven by objects and things of external nature, so they are always up to something. I have heard of ILE, though, say something of the nature that they would like to socialize and have someone to be the medium of their relations.

[Beautiful sky]

My SEE friend tells stories from her life including things like giving birth, how her husband proposed etc. Sometimes she can share them in a most hilarious way. She also likes my company one to one and shares nearly every detail of her life with me. She regularly pours out her soul and says I keep her sane and have saved her from walking out of her marriage countless times.

This makes a lot of sense for the following reasons.

Jung explains the process of Fe leading to Se in the thought of, or circulation of, the mental process. This would only confirm your typing of your friend as SEE and you described your relations well. I don't see anything about Fi though. The stories of one's life is still objective information, because they come from without not within (or without and back to the subject's feelings). Fi is information of subjective nature, from within. Se would be details of objective experiences, again an Extraverted function. *Sorry for all of this Ti role (and analysis) *

[anndelise]

SeFi are more likely to straight up state whether or not they like something, and/or what they expect from you in a relationship. If they aren't being clear, they will notice that you're not getting the hint...and will be more clear about it. This means that the NiTe doesn't have to waste time guessing or wondering what to do in the relationship.

The SeFi is also more likely to initiate contact, initiate activities, etc. Again clearing the way for the NiTe from having to guess at what to do.

In turn, the NiTe doesn't express his/her emotions all over the place, and offers unemotionally laden feedback to the SeFi. This means that the SeFi learns that they can trust in whatever the NiTe does express, whether thought or emotion.

Sometimes an SeFi learns that they can get what they want through manipulation (as any type can), and will continue to do so if allowed. However, an abrupt to the point feedback...informing them that that behavior won't be tolerated, will end that behavior involving that particular person. Who would be the most abrupt and to the point? Someone with weak Fe/Fi, who's focus is on the Fi and Ni part of the feedback.

[tcaudilllg]

"I want it, I deserve it. And yet you say I have no right to it. Who are you to deny me?"

Delta fi -> gamma Fi >>|<< weak gamma Se /! strong gamma Se

Basically ILE's Se is like to try to control SEE's Fi, constellating an objection by strong Se.

[Beautiful sky]

Ok..so let me share a little more about what i believe to be my friends use of .

She can easily turn on her charms to accomplish whatever it is that she desires at that particular time and seeks to expand her influence over others. For example if she would like the Coffee shop owner to give her daughter a job there as soon her daughter is old enough she will go out of her way to build a bond with him treating him wonderfully, smiling, laughing and buttering him up/heaping praise upon him.

That's Fe leading to Se, hence Se, mobilizes resources to achieve a given objective/goal.

She shows her changing emotions on her face - even the negative. The negative looks are very off putting and people don't like this about her but it's like she can't help but show what is going on inside.

Still SEE

She has a very promiscuous teenaged daughter who continuously promises her mum that she will try harder to be more like her mum desires in the love department but can never last long before she has a new sexual partner. Well the rest of us seem to understand that this teenager is sorry for disappointing her mother but has no long term desire to give up exploring territory with the boys but my friend believes that her daughters sorry's are genuine and every time starts sharing praises about her daughter's now good behaviour...only to a few days or weeks later have to go through a similar process with the daughter again. What I am trying to show here is that I think her very much likes a realness/genuineness about people and for her that is enough most times to put the relationship onto a good footing.

Here's where my Fi will jump out, leaving my Ti behind; when I read the relationship between the mother and daughter situation, I evaluate it in terms of my set, standard moral code (the object - the situation of this relationship that I'm observing, goes back to how it relates to me, my person; hence subjective Fi); one that I've developed from early childhood. What does your SEE friend voice or say about her daughter's relationships?

Another thing would be that she swings between friends. Like Dee is her best friend this week because suddenly Dee is visiting town and her and Dee have this and that in common. Then Lee is moving into the area and her and Lee used to do this and that together and share the same middle name etc so now Lee is her bestest buddy ever. Then Zee comes along and it's all Zee this and Zee that. And then there's me, the one who is a bit more constant in her life, the one who sees and hears all of this from her.

SEE, being easily disappointed by one's relations

She has a gift of singing which I feel is also a display of her . Some of her happiest moments were when she was able to sing on stage she says. To her, singing seems like a major way to spiritually communicate/connect with God and others.

SEE

Does she make any value judgements? Voices her opinion on other's behaviors? What are they in specifically to or regarding?

[tcaudilllg]

SEEs have a habit of taking people who criticize them for not doing their fair share of the work to a private area and laying down the law. And the first time they hear another person express a similar greivance with said person, they will recite the details of the conversation. One thing SEEs cannot stand is a person who runs their mouth.

[consentingadult]

Jesus is the cruel sausage....

[consentingadult]

Jesus is the cruel sausage....

[Suz]

How does an SEE create Fi and get an ILI to be suggested by it? What does the SEE say or do exactly? Any examples?

This assumes that it is the SEE is taking the initiative, which ime typically is not the case. It is more likely the ILI sending out signals of an Fi-Mobilizing nature, to which the SEE (or IEE) responds by returning creative Fi. In plain language: the ILI will send out subconscious signals of loneliness or sorrow and a need for attachment, to which the SEE will respond by taking the actual steps for creating a bond.

wow this really clarifies things for me, thanks!!

[Suz]

I could see Fi being a creatable entity actually. Especially when it's "creative" Fi. e.g to proactively create relationships to various degrees of proximity, establish conditions conducive to bringing someone psychologically closer or farther away, etc. I see that as creating Fi. Am I off?

I don't go about my business "creating" relationships; not proactively at any rate. That's always been a much more passive process, something I'm ultimately very aware of but don't have to contemplate very much.
Also Fi != relationships.

I know Fi =/= relationships, as Fe-types form relationships too, but Fi is about one's long-term feelings about someone/something, which includes character judgements and attempts at establishing relationships emanating from feelings based on this, and with a vision of long-term interactions. that's how i see it anyway.

Oh btw, I also dont go around proactively creating relationships.

[consentingadult]

Oh btw, I also dont go around proactively creating relationships.

Indeed, the proper use of the creative function is in response to a request.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't go about my business "creating" relationships; not proactively at any rate. That's always been a much more passive process, something I'm ultimately very aware of but don't have to contemplate very much.
Also Fi != relationships.

I know Fi =/= relationships, as Fe-types form relationships too, but Fi is about one's long-term feelings about someone/something, which includes character judgements and attempts at establishing relationships emanating from feelings based on this, and with a vision of long-term interactions. that's how i see it anyway.

Oh btw, I also dont go around proactively creating relationships.

Yes. I agree with you about what you said about Fi and having long term feelings. I think one reason why an ILI I know is so frustrated at her ESE husband is because he doesn't take initiative in forming these long term relationships with his friends and hence not having much of a relationship circle from which the introverted ILI may take part in because she craves it so much. The general complaint in their conflictory relations is that the ILI tells the ESE, "you don't have any friends, you don't see anyone and no one comes around here."

This goes into my next point and ties concepts together with Shayley's post:

What does your SEE friend voice or say about her daughter's relationships?

Does she make any value judgements? Voices her opinion on other's behaviors? What are they in specifically to or regarding?

My friend is very positive on the whole with her outlook of her daughter and others. She will mostly give her daughter the benefit of any doubt as she is quite a trusting person really.
About her daughter she might say something like "I don't think she would" or "She told me she wouldn't and she said that I don't have to worry any more" and that's kind of the end of the story for the time.
Now that her daughter has been up to all this activity for a while, my friend has also started to say things like "I can't control her anymore".

If she ever voices a judgement it's usually served with some laughter or tears or she relates it back to how it was for her in her day etc.

Often feeling judgements are voiced on live bands, singing etc which are areas that hold an extra special spot in her life.

On the whole she exhibits a desire to get on well with everyone so doesn't voice too much thoughts on others behaviours unless it's in a positive way as she doesn't want to enter conflict without good reasons.
At present she is in conflict with a son who isn't returning her phone calls because he says she nagged him about his behaviours and attitude and spent his entire last visit telling him off....Much seems to depend upon her mood I guess and at the moment she is very stressed and did not like her son's disrespectful behaviour towards family members and friends and his aggressiveness towards his father.
I have no doubt that she will patch things up with her son soon enough though and shower him with lots of positive when they meet up next.

Your observation of your friend's need for a bond with her kids is remarkably observant and ties in with the above post, that of SeFi suggesting to ILI to form long term bonds but that where SEE does not go around initiating relationships and where they both require, need and want long term feeling bonds between individuals.


My very concern was how do they do this if the ILI is naturally an introvert and not likely to take initiative and the SEE is not likely to act out in establishing bonds? it's just odd how these two would get together unless by some chance one might run into each other, let's say at work, and suggest a pot luck or be tossed in together by some other motion. Usually, it may occur by the ILI's display of sad or out of place emotions that may insight the SEE to act or suggest a different emotional state in the ILI.

[nanashi]

How does an SEE create Fi and get an ILI to be suggested by it? What does the SEE say or do exactly? Any examples?

I can't conceive of being satisfied with another type. This is my (and not, necessarily, the) opinion (of all ILIs).

Creative function: Evaluating. Deciding. Active tool. I'd say an ESFp use of Fi is an alleviation for me, the ILI who didn't quite recognize the struggle she was having with Fi issues.

(I miss duals in photos...maybe it's true about what one theorist said about not recognizing our duals; I sometimes really CANNOT see duals in photographs. I can see EVERY person BUT them when trying to locate them in group photos.)


I very much am aware of ESFps around me in a room because of how clear it is in the little gestures they make and postures they maintain in response to certain outward stimuli how much they care about evaluation that is subjective--and about values and purpose rather than classifying, measuring, and sequencing.


The slideconsulting.comhttp://www.slideconsulting.com/Eroti...groupings.html erotic attitude descriptions kind of touch on the appeal for an assertive, concept-oriented, measuring Gamma NT in having the aspect of their psyche that ties in with their plans (precisely because it's the <3 of those plans) so well but is underexperienced THERE in the flesh, experienced so effortlessly by the ESFp dual in his/her own SEE life. It's like purpose made visible for me....Like I have the purpose, but I see and experience more intensely the light of my reason for making an effort, and I'm more able to experience Fi pleasure. It's like their valuing of Fi allows me to breathe Fi mindset for a minute.

I notice so much the Fi/Te complement that an INFj asking about how an ESFp interacts with INTps with Fi is sort of baffling to me because a lot of ISFjs and INFjs endear me regardless of gender because of their Fi, but...I get bothered interacting with someone whose predominately used function isn't Se but IS Fi after a certain amount of time (possibly because my Te is taxed and my Ni is underwhelmed with a complement; and DON'T WORRY: I know they are dissatisfied with my not being EXTJ), so I DO see why it would be asked. I guess the best answer for me is that there is great comfort for me in interacting with someone whose intoxicatingly relieving, gentle Fi works in combination with Gamma values and Se awareness. Irrationality's flow is key for me in being able to see longterm mating potential.

I just started working the other day with a new SEE coworker, so I can tell it from a SLI point of view. I felt that I liked him and trusted him very quickly. He didn't smile very much or make jokes - he was serious and had a quiet voice. He was talking about himself and his other job, the job that he actually cares about, his 'real' job, where he runs a music recording studio, and he gives a lot of the money to charity. He told me that his brother died of a drug overdose, and that this influenced his values and beliefs. He described a lot of ethical reasons why he was interested in giving to charity, what it meant to him personally, what his beliefs are. He told me about being a vegetarian. Basically he talked a lot about why he does what he does at his real business. We had only just met and we were talking like this after only a short time together.

Something that I recognized as being similar to another Gamma ESI coworker: This new SEE guy had a 'symbol,' a little bracelet with words written on it in a foreign language, and he told me what it meant to him. It was very similar to the tattoo that the ESI coworker showed me. The words on the bracelet meant something like 'hidden force.' The ESI coworker's tattoo meant 'soul fly,' or 'flight of the soul' or something like that - he said it meant to be free, to value liberty. I interpret this as their connection with Ni: they are looking for symbols that have deep mystical meanings to them. They talk about these things with a feeling of deepness and mystical power, something beyond ordinary reality. The 'hidden forces' are something that serves the needs of their ethics.

I myself didn't respond much, I just listened. So I don't necessarily respond to their Fi by blurting out a bunch of Te right at that exact moment. I respond by feeling a sense of trust and realness and relaxation when I am with the Fi-Gammas (the SEE and ESI). I feel more relaxed and comfortable with the SEE than I do with the ESI.

Whenever I talk about 'how some piece of machinery works' or 'why that thing is malfunctioning and what to do about it,' and that kind of thing, or if I mention some piece of knowledge, some kind of 'fact,' the Fi types listen to me - I can see them paying close attention. But they do not necessarily say anything, they just listen and pick up on it. The Fi males pay attention and listen to my 'facts' when I'm talking about machinery. The Fi females, on the other hand, love to come to me and tell me all about what's going on in their relationships.

An ESxp female I know talked with me about work and trends and achievement.An ESFp female I know talks about ideals related to relationships and about her work, but I get from EXFPs and IXFjs I know that are male that relating and people influence them HUGELY, too. I know an ISFj male with huge piles of letters from women in his closet, etc. One talks about their future kids, plays with babies, and is waaaay more focused on the Fi aspects of relationships than I am.

This assumes that it is the SEE is taking the initiative, which ime typically is not the case. It is more likely the ILI sending out signals of an Fi-Mobilizing nature, to which the SEE (or IEE) responds by returning creative Fi. In plain language: the ILI will send out subconscious signals of loneliness or sorrow and a need for attachment, to which the SEE will respond by taking the actual steps for creating a bond.

I actually haven't always had this experience. Sometimes I'll just say something very Gamma-quirky or I'll bring out the Ni observational critiques. But, you DID say subconscious. I make blatant and conscious requests for Fi from people I have established relationships with.

[woofwoofl]

Aww

I notice so much the Fi/Te complement that an INFj asking about how an ESFp interacts with INTps with Fi is sort of baffling to me because a lot of ISFjs and INFjs endear me regardless of gender because of their Fi, but...I get bothered interacting with someone whose predominately used function isn't Se but IS Fi after a certain amount of time (possibly because my Te is taxed and my Ni is underwhelmed with a complement; and DON'T WORRY: I know they are dissatisfied with my not being EXTJ), so I DO see why it would be asked. I guess the best answer for me is that there is great comfort for me in interacting with someone whose intoxicatingly relieving, gentle Fi works in combination with Gamma values and Se awareness. Irrationality's flow is key for me in being able to see longterm mating potential.

Thanks I get concerned about coming off a bit cold, distant, or "busy" in a way, I'm glad you don't seem to find that the case...


As for creating ? I'm certain I do it, it's just hard to catch myself in the act; I just recently offered to walk a girl home after she asked me to, it would have been a four mile walk (eight for me; I'd have to walk back, and that on top of two miles of walking and eight miles of biking), but then she kept seeming all jittery and scared and shit and declined. How the fuck can someone be scared of someone my size?

I want to do two person bike rides with a lot of friends and just gun it all brothers in arms (at least) style, that would rule! I'm gonna get a tent soon, maybe instead of just me going at the world around me, it'll be me and someone else... solo missions are kickass too...

More or less, if someone needs me to have their back, I'll do something! Even if I get swamped and I'm incapable of carrying everything on through, I didn't forget to...

[consentingadult]

Jesus is the cruel sausage....

[Absurd]

Obviously, once you have established a relationship, you can flat-out ask for what you want, like that ILI woman who asked me if I still wanted to make a baby with her just after I told her I was going to break up with her.

Was that ILI woman dying ?

[EyeSeeCold]

I thought those were great posts, CA. Tcaud hit the nail with the "not doing your job" thing too.

[Galen]

This assumes that it is the SEE is taking the initiative, which ime typically is not the case. It is more likely the ILI sending out signals of an Fi-Mobilizing nature, to which the SEE (or IEE) responds by returning creative Fi. In plain language: the ILI will send out subconscious signals of loneliness or sorrow and a need for attachment, to which the SEE will respond by taking the actual steps for creating a bond.

Wait, are you saying that depressed and lonely INTps don't do anything proactive about their depression and instead wait for someone else to come along and fix it out of pity?

[Creepy-]

I'll tell you what they do...
First though, you gotta know one thing. SeFis like sex. Alot. NiTes like it to - they just don't know how much they like it, plus they're pussies and they wouldn't know how to get it even if they tried.
Now that's out of the way, I'll move on to the basic cycle:
1. NiTe makes it painfully obvious that he/she is a lonely little fucks, and that his/her penis or vagina has not been touched by anyone other than themselves since the day mommy stopped wiping his/her ass.
2. SeFi senses the NiTe's virginity using his high powered sex-radar (Se) and then appeals to the NiTe's loneliness by being all friendly on his ass (Fi).
3. They fuck.

[consentingadult]

Jesus is the cruel sausage....

[Galen]

Wait, are you saying that depressed and lonely INTps don't do anything proactive about their depression and instead wait for someone else to come along and fix it out of pity?

No, not quite. I basically said that, if an ILI wants attention, they can behave in a depressed, melancholic or sorrowful way. However, now that you have said it, it is not unlikely for ILIs to wait for other people to fix some of their problems, but this applies to all types, only the way they go about it differs.

I can imagine a lot of INTps resenting this sentiment.

[consentingadult]

Jesus is the cruel sausage....

[Beautiful sky]

Wait, are you saying that depressed and lonely INTps don't do anything proactive about their depression and instead wait for someone else to come along and fix it out of pity?

No, not quite. I basically said that, if an ILI wants attention, they can behave in a depressed, melancholic or sorrowful way. However, now that you have said it, it is not unlikely for ILIs to wait for other people to fix some of their problems, but this applies to all types, only the way they go about it differs.

Yes, this is interesting because SEE do the same thing. Don't you think?

[consentingadult]

Jesus is the cruel sausage....

[Sumer1an]

This assumes that it is the SEE is taking the initiative, which ime typically is not the case. It is more likely the ILI sending out signals of an Fi-Mobilizing nature, to which the SEE (or IEE) responds by returning creative Fi. In plain language: the ILI will send out subconscious signals of loneliness or sorrow and a need for attachment, to which the SEE will respond by taking the actual steps for creating a bond.

Wait, are you saying that depressed and lonely INTps don't do anything proactive about their depression and instead wait for someone else to come along and fix it out of pity?

I'm not like that at all. I have known Se polrs to be like that commonly though. My EII friend wont fix any of his problems. I have always been one to analyze myself and figure out what I need to do differently or what I need to change in myself. I'm not really one to sit and mope about my problems and when I do I instantly stop. Then again Im not depressed or lonely but when I used to be I would still focus on fixing my problems and becoming the ideal self I wanted to be.

Wait, are you saying that depressed and lonely INTps don't do anything proactive about their depression and instead wait for someone else to come along and fix it out of pity?

No, not quite. I basically said that, if an ILI wants attention, they can behave in a depressed, melancholic or sorrowful way. However, now that you have said it, it is not unlikely for ILIs to wait for other people to fix some of their problems, but this applies to all types, only the way they go about it differs.

I know what you are talking about and I'm sure if an ILI becomes depressed or loses a grip on himself (which is not uncommon for us), he might do something similar to what you said. But I'm really never like that. I hate to have other people's pity. Sometimes I say negative things about my friends or my amount of friends but I say those things completely detached from emotion and I don't even realize I'm doing it. A lot of the time I just think I'm starting conversation (even if it is negative) but I do think that is how my Fi seeks SEEs or gammas or whatever. I think that the only ILIs that behave in a melancholic or sorrowful way are the ones who are actually depressed. What makes your point valid is that a lot of ILIs are actually depressed.

[woofwoofl]

I have never seen an SEE act depressed

That sounds about right

I do get depressed; I don't want anyone to have to witness it, I instantly perk up when I'm around people, I'm usually thinking "how can I fix this?" instead of paying attention to feeling bad (apparently some people feel bad and don't try to correct it; I see it happen, I don't understand it)... usually, if something's not right with me and I can't correct it, I exercise it out and things get better...

[Sumer1an]

When I'm depressed I'm just super contemptuous. I cant keep my insults to myself and my conflict with alpha SFs is amplified x10.

[Beautiful sky]

What does your SEE friend voice or say about her daughter's relationships?

Does she make any value judgements? Voices her opinion on other's behaviors? What are they in specifically to or regarding?

My friend is very positive on the whole with her outlook of her daughter and others. She will mostly give her daughter the benefit of any doubt as she is quite a trusting person really.
About her daughter she might say something like "I don't think she would" or "She told me she wouldn't and she said that I don't have to worry any more" and that's kind of the end of the story for the time.
Now that her daughter has been up to all this activity for a while, my friend has also started to say things like "I can't control her anymore".

If she ever voices a judgement it's usually served with some laughter or tears or she relates it back to how it was for her in her day etc.

Often feeling judgements are voiced on live bands, singing etc which are areas that hold an extra special spot in her life.

On the whole she exhibits a desire to get on well with everyone so doesn't voice too much thoughts on others behaviours unless it's in a positive way as she doesn't want to enter conflict without good reasons.
At present she is in conflict with a son who isn't returning her phone calls because he says she nagged him about his behaviours and attitude and spent his entire last visit telling him off....Much seems to depend upon her mood I guess and at the moment she is very stressed and did not like her son's disrespectful behaviour towards family members and friends and his aggressiveness towards his father.
I have no doubt that she will patch things up with her son soon enough though and shower him with lots of positive when they meet up next.

Your observation of your friend's need for a bond with her kids is remarkably observant and ties in with the above post, that of SeFi suggesting to ILI to form long term bonds but that where SEE does not go around initiating relationships and where they both require, need and want long term feeling bonds between individuals.


My very concern was how do they do this if the ILI is naturally an introvert and not likely to take initiative and the SEE is not likely to act out in establishing bonds? it's just odd how these two would get together unless by some chance one might run into each other, let's say at work, and suggest a pot luck or be tossed in together by some other motion. Usually, it may occur by the ILI's display of sad or out of place emotions that may insight the SEE to act or suggest a different emotional state in the ILI.

This is the way I met my SEE friend -

We were at a group meeting where she became an emotional mess and poured out her financial and medical stresses in regards to her child with disabilities and I came forth and was able to show her a way to see the light/provide her with a possible answer to her problems. My husband and I followed through with behind the scene actions which helped her and her family and since that day she has never been far away from my life.

Do you see how beautifully you recount the observations of your friend and her relation with her kids/family? This recounting is Sense perception (being aware of what's going on in your environment and something I'm not very good with doing) at work. It lives to retell what it has observed. That's it; Se isn't bad.

[Beautiful sky]

I put a fair amount of thought into writing answers to your difficult questions about SEE's. My SEE friend is so different from myself that it makes what you are saying above meaningless. Remember I have known her extremely well for years and years. Over time you begin to see a pattern of behaviour from those whom you know so very well.

Don't just shoot out really random arrows for someone's type hoping that one will hit the mark. Look at the entire picture! I have been on this forum for probably a couple of years now, have written much, shared my likely enneagram type, posted photos and videos, have links in my signature of people who I believe are my type and am more than happily married to an ESI who is most likely my dual.

Yes, you do begin to see those things over time. I think you've often mentioned how close you are with your dual husband. That's nice to hear as there are many bad relationships everywhere.