Being around your Benefactor and Supervisor Dual Pair

[astralsilky]

Consider two duals dealing with the one's benefactor / the other's Supervisee. What might happen?

For example, take an ENFp, ISTp, and ENTj. Do you think the ENFp perceives the same "weaknesses" in the ENTj that the ISTp does? Only the ENTj doesn't respond to the ENFp's efforts to help like they might toward the ISTp? (This may go against some popularized theory, but I'm trying to sort out something in my experience.)

Even more general, do you think some degree of supervision is possible from other members of the Supervisor's quadra?

[FDG]

They generally notice the PoLR, however they do not notice the "wrong" usage of the base function - which is, in my opinion, the real basis of supervision: the supervisor thinks that the supervisee is using the base function in a way which achieves the wrong result.

[Blaze]

They generally notice the PoLR, however they do not notice the "wrong" usage of the base function - which is, in my opinion, the real basis of supervision: the supervisor thinks that the supervisee is using the base function in a way which achieves the wrong result.

or in a way which achieves no results! hahaha

supervisors are critical, benefactors are magnanimous. so with a couple of duals the person would be criticized by their supervisor but yhet somewhat protected by their benefactor. but both members of the dual pair would feel superior to the person.

[Exodus]

+2 to both. This is a interesting line of research.

(But I should point out, one's supervisee is one's dual's beneficiary.)

IME, the benefactor has more patience with his beneficiary than the supervisor does with his supervisee.

[astralsilky]

(But I should point out, one's supervisee is one's dual's beneficiary.)

Oops, switched contexts too fast ~ thanks.

Great input so far.

Would any of you give RL examples of how you have supervised your supervisee (e.g, manifestations of what the recurring issues may be), and assisted your Beneficiary? It might be helpful to hear some of your stories on this.

[implied]

i think far too many people go "oh, this person is a total idiot thus i'm supervising him."

[FDG]

They generally notice the PoLR, however they do not notice the "wrong" usage of the base function - which is, in my opinion, the real basis of supervision: the supervisor thinks that the supervisee is using the base function in a way which achieves the wrong result.

or in a way which achieves no results! hahaha

supervisors are critical, benefactors are magnanimous.

Not necessarily, in my experience, it depends on which of the two is a positivist/negativist.

[Elro]

Not to mention - I'm very tempted to say the same for ENFj ~ but ~ me+ENFj = just a bad mix, w/o divine intervention (which sometimes HAS occurred).

They didn't die, did they?

[astralsilky]

Not to mention - I'm very tempted to say the same for ENFj ~ but ~ me+ENFj = just a bad mix, w/o divine intervention (which sometimes HAS occurred).

They didn't die, did they?

Hardly. The relations aren't THAT bad. It's just that, compared to (most) other types, there's more conscious energy required to recognize and validate each other's perspectives.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

An individuals supervisor also has the supervisors dual as their beneficiary.

From what I have seen, the supervisor-supervisee relation can be seen to an like a parent child relation, however the supervisee does not reap any benefits from this situation. It can actually be unhealthy for the supervisee.

The benefactor-beneficiary relation is not as bad, and can provide maybe *some* benefits to the beneficiary, although it is still unequal and the 'benefits' does not seem to lead to any great personal growth.

What I am wondering is if a person was in a situation were they were in regular contact with both their supervisor and their beneficiary (who are each others dual) Would the dual couple be able to communicate each others information to the third party in such a way that they *really* did achieve benefits .. almost like indirectly in a dual relation themselves? Or would it be a combination even worse for the supervised/benefactored?

What sort of impact do you think this type of relation would have?

[emeye]

Devastating.

Been there, just barely survived.

[Rubicon]

Would the dual couple be able to communicate each others information to the third party in such a way that they *really* did achieve benefits .. almost like indirectly in a dual relation themselves?

Are you meaning that the benefactor and supervisor duo act as dual to beneficiary-supervisee??
I was sort of in that situation - there was my supervisor flatmate and her dual boyfriend. I didn't like the feeling at all. In fact I sometimes heard them talking about me which was kind of awkward. I got the feeling that my flatmate would mix what her boyfriend said with her own thoughts - because her 'advice' wasn't as direct as usual - but anyway, the combination was unbearably patronizing - I felt like I was their child or something

[xyz]

An individuals supervisor also has the supervisors dual as their beneficiary.

From what I have seen, the supervisor-supervisee relation can be seen to an like a parent child relation, however the supervisee does not reap any benefits from this situation. It can actually be unhealthy for the supervisee.

The benefactor-beneficiary relation is not as bad, and can provide maybe *some* benefits to the beneficiary, although it is still unequal and the 'benefits' does not seem to lead to any great personal growth.

What I am wondering is if a person was in a situation were they were in regular contact with both their supervisor and their beneficiary (who are each others dual) Would the dual couple be able to communicate each others information to the third party in such a way that they *really* did achieve benefits .. almost like indirectly in a dual relation themselves? Or would it be a combination even worse for the supervised/benefactored?

What sort of impact do you think this type of relation would have?

Sorry, I only had regular contact with one who would be considered my "Supervisor" for about 2 years.

And yeah, just barely survived :[]

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Sounds like a good way to fuck someone up then?

[Blaze]

my parents are a dual couple and are my supervisor and benefactor. trust me it sucks. not as bad as if i had had a dual couple who were my quasi and conflictors, but it did still suck.

i became extremely rebellious and got into a lot of trouble when young. still to this day i can't get what i need from them - so i stopped expecting anything some time ago.

i think gilly has the same situation as i do if i remember correctly.

[FDG]

I don't have much problems with ISTps, actually I've been good friends with some.

[liveandletlive]

2 of my best friends are EIE and LSI and all three of us hang all the time. im also going on sb with them just us 3 so ill have a better account of this situation ure asking about when i get back in the middle of march.

basically, they'll laugh at anything that goes against as dumb and obviously cuz like omg... it's logically inaccurate- oh the horror!! i like my benefactor tons but my supervisor scares the SHIT out of me... it sucks having LSIs as my supervisor... they're like born killers haha

anyway... its not as bad as u think with increased relations and experiences with them.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I don't have much problems with ISTps, actually I've been good friends with some.

Thats interesting. It is a side issue I speak of here but I think every type supervisor-supervisee is different. Maybe those with a dominant irrational function as a supervisor are not quite as 'harsh' as those with a dominant judging function.. Or perhaps also and including it also has to do with the individuals involved.

[FDG]

Thats interesting. It is a side issue I speak of here but I think every type supervisor-supervisee is different. Maybe those with a dominant irrational function as a supervisor are not quite as 'harsh' as those with a dominant judgeing function.

Yeah, I don't know, I had a slightly different theory though. I thought that supervision is good in the positivist ring and between thinking-thinking, feeling-feeling type.

So ENTp-ISTj, ISTp-ENTj, ESFp-INFj, INFp-ESFj are the "good" supervision pairs, both IMHO and IME.

[BLauritson]

it sucks having LSIs as my supervisor... they're like born killers haha

heh, just out of curiosity how do you feel about your benefactor in that regard? I ask because I tend to find LSIs feel quite harmless to me, yet EIEs can feel like a threat (although as time goes on I'm increasingly unsure about the latter for various reasons I can't be bothered to explain here).

[consentingadult]

Since your benefactors and supervisors are each others duals, I was wondering how people experience their (close) interactions with this dual pair, I don't recall ever having been in such an interaction.

For each one seperately, I can say that benefactors annoy the shit out of me because they tend to 'ridicule' my opinions or things I say in an outspoken way (actually making them look quite stupid or ignorant in my opinion), whereas supervisors tend give me the (unspoken) impression that they think that what I'm saying isn't true, or worse, that I'm lying. Both are, of course, my impressions of the interactions, but I do feel strongly about it. With supervisors the relationship tends to dissolve more or less automatically, whereas with benefactors I feel a strong need to actively withdraw from the relationship (i.e. the benefactor doesn't seem to feel the need to withdraw).

So, question remains: have you ever experienced (close) interactions with a dual pair that were your benefactor/supervisor? What was it like, how did you experience the interactions?

[InkStrider]

Since your benefactors and supervisors are each others duals, I was wondering how people experience their (close) interactions with this dual pair, I don't recall ever having been in such an interaction.

For each one seperately, I can say that benefactors annoy the shit out of me because they tend to 'ridicule' my opinions or things I say in an outspoken way (actually making them look quite stupid or ignorant in my opinion), whereas supervisors tend give me the (unspoken) impression that they think that what I'm saying isn't true, or worse, that I'm lying. Both are, of course, my impressions of the interactions, but I do feel strongly about it. With supervisors the relationship tends to dissolve more or less automatically, whereas with benefactors I feel a strong need to actively withdraw from the relationship (i.e. the benefactor doesn't seem to feel the need to withdraw).

So, question remains: have you ever experienced (close) interactions with a dual pair that were your benefactor/supervisor? What was it like, how did you experience the interactions?

Yes. I've had negative experiences with both types despite the initial attraction (though I understand this wouldn't always be the case). I relate very much to the bolded. To sum it up, SEEs tend to think I'm smart but treat me like a flawed little child needing guidance. Some ILIs tend to quickly dismiss me as stupid, and treat me like one. I don't know which is worse.

Asymmetrical intertype relations, reflecting its name, isn't balanced. I find SEEs creative Fi appealing but inconsistent, and experience difficulty trusting them after a certain level is reached, although this level is very quickly arrived at, as they do tend to dive in very cleverly into my suggestive function, which I have difficulty resisting (I now know better). They tend to perceive me as non-spontaneous, hence unexciting, and overly ponderous. Since their dual-seeking function is one I lacked but one they secretly need, they unknowingly push me towards particular directions/views/approaches which I am incapable of performing, and although they understand my approach, think it unsuitable and/or ineffective. (Hence the ridiculing, which I too find annoying yet hard-pressed to respond.) They eventually make me feel helpless for being unable to reciprocate in kind (No Ni to give in response to received Fi). I responded in the only way I knew how: Caretaking. In which I would then receive complaints of smothering parenting. I hate SEEs.

With ILIs, I think they're pretty cool and find them interesting in their strangely withdrawn self, and would often try hard to engage them. They eventually get irritated if I try too hard and would snap, which I secretly find amusing (they seriously hate it though). They also act in accordance to Fi, of which their Fi motivated behaviours I respect. Hence, I tolerate their behaviour (aka caustic abuse) without bothering to snap back. They tend to find my version of Te flawed and are inclined to dismiss my input without due consideration (from my pov). Their version of Te does sort of makes sense yet one I find difficulty making use of. Marked tendency to nitpick on what I dismiss as irrelevant. They do sort of admire my EJness though.

Altogether an interesting pair, yet not one I would care to get too close IRL for the sake of my own peace of mind. IMO though, it is the Benefactor-Conflict that is the killer. Not so much Benefactor-Supervisor.

[lemontrees]

EDIT

[Reficulris]

Oh god your bosses are more competent than you are... such a problem. Impossible, you're not contributing as much as they are noooo. //sarcasm

Truth is, socionics aside, don't feel bad about this. Bosses are supposed to be more competent (this isnt always the case sadly) and so they should know to value your according to your worth and position. Also, work isn't just bringing and even if you are taking more than you bring, you still apperently bring something they value, or they'd never have hired you (or would fire you).

I think you underestimate yourself and your worth. If other people are competent and finely tuned to each-other that's awesome. That doesn't deminish your capabilities, even if they seem to outshadow you.

Anxiety in this context is completely understandable and normal. For most people visiting clients, especially in the early stages of their careers is somewhat or extremely stressfull.

TLDR: stop comparing yourself with your bosses or colegues, see how you grow based on your own path and take as much out of every situation as you can. Live is too short to weigh for fairness.

[lemontrees]

EDIT

[nefnaf]

I love my SLE and IEI friends. I think supervision / benefit are relations are fantastic for friendship. As far as being in the workplace / colleagues goes, I don't really get along with them as well. I've never had an SLE boss so I can't really comment on that.