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Thread: EII-SLE Conflict Relations (INFj & ESTp)

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    Penis.

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    Being put off by their comments points to your insecurities. Conflict relations are not the worst; it's just that the gulf seems more obvious then say mirrors. What you should be asking yourself is: "Despite everything, can this person be helpful?" If not, steer clear. If yes, then look to yourself as the problem source. I have found that ESTps tend to try to overwhelm but if people don't seem impressed, they do dismount from their chargers; they usually mean well but they often behave like raucous soldiers on leave.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Being put off by their comments points to your insecurities. Conflict relations are not the worst; it's just that the gulf seems more obvious then say mirrors. What you should be asking yourself is: "Despite everything, can this person be helpful?" If not, steer clear. If yes, then look to yourself as the problem source. I have found that ESTps tend to try to overwhelm but if people don't seem impressed, they do dismount from their chargers; they usually mean well but they often behave like raucous soldiers on leave.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    @Rebelondeck, which relations do you think are the worst?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Rebelondeck, which relations do you think are the worst?
    This differs greatly from Socionics: From worst to the best of the worst: mirror, quasi-iden, benefit, supervision and conflicting. I put conflicting ahead of supervision though they score the same because it's more of a two-way relationship. Activity and identical aren't anything to write home about either...

    a.k.a. I/O

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    My father is SLE and my mother is EII and they are clear evidence that conflicting relationships are really bad. My father steers out of the house all the time working in basement and eating in restaurants and comes to home when my mother already sleeps. He wakes up before her and this way they don't see each other. When my dad comes home to the toilet and jokes about something this escalates in fully fledged war and none of them can stop it. Any single word from my mum can trigger my dad that he will start arguing and this also escalates into war. My mum has depression because of it and has diagnosed "exhaustion of defence mechanisms".

    On the other hand, I have normal relationships with my mum and it is not conflicting at all and never was. There are worse and better asymmetrical relationships. ILE and EII have Ne so it the communication is normal and there is no tension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Penis.
    How dare you?
    “I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
    Clarice Lispector

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    @falsehope I wonder how your mother would interact and communicate with another ILE, who wasn't her child, and how both would feel in a co-dependent, long-term relationship. Often parents don't express their true opinions of their children, especially not to their children....

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    This differs greatly from Socionics: From worst to the best of the worst: mirror, quasi-iden, benefit, supervision and conflicting. I put conflicting ahead of supervision though they score the same because it's more of a two-way relationship. Activity and identical aren't anything to write home about either...

    a.k.a. I/O
    Okay like 99% either one of the ppl in ur relations is actually mistyped

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Okay like 99% either one of the ppl in ur relations is actually mistyped
    I wrote the following article and others because my observations seemed to diverge from Socionics but mistyping is a real possibility. In the article, I also didn't spell Maslow correctly.....

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/thestrength.html

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I suppose there are factors that makes a huge difference. ESI's that I have typed as dominant subtypes tend to be totally out of whack with me. It would not even happen. Huge mental tension between us. While they may enjoy efficiency improvements that I might tell them but I might tell them stuff using indirect references which makes them totally insane (ambiguity) and I can't stand their pressure and I need to go somewhere quiet to recharge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    I suppose there are factors that makes a huge difference. ESI's that I have typed as dominant subtypes tend to be totally out of whack with me. It would not even happen. Huge mental tension between us. While they may enjoy efficiency improvements that I might tell them but I might tell them stuff using indirect references which makes them totally insane (ambiguity) and I can't stand their pressure and I need to go somewhere quiet to recharge.
    ISFjs have been known to isolate their partners as a way of showing their displeasure; their weapon of choice seems to be robbing their opponents of strength, vigor, or spirit - sometimes playing the sympathy card or martyring themselves. In order to neutralize such tendencies, partners need to be able to understand the objectives and communicate their understandings, and big egos would be assets as well - these tactics usually don't work on a self-confident people who don't mind going it alone for a while.
    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    ISFjs have been known to isolate their partners as a way of showing their displeasure; their weapon of choice seems to be robbing their opponents of strength, vigor, or spirit - sometimes playing the sympathy card or martyring themselves. In order to neutralize such tendencies, partners need to be able to understand the objectives and communicate their understandings, and big egos would be assets as well - these tactics usually don't work on a self-confident people who don't mind going it alone for a while.
    a.k.a. I/O
    So, I have noted in a way. It is just totally not effective as I have hard time to believe that this "I leave you alone" system actually exist. I'm totally indifferent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    So, I have noted in a way. It is just totally not effective as I have hard time to believe that this "I leave you alone" system actually exist. I'm totally indifferent.
    What was said relates to E-9, which should be often base Fi. Not specific to EII only.

    E-9 are easily offenced and stop communications. But if they value the relations - they may tolerate you much on the surface - they'll show nothing or you'll notice only slight cold [while inside they may to have serious hurt - it's just stays covered]. This will not be like a lot of small quarrel where you can do maneurs, to have time to understand clearly what happens and how to deal with this. It will be "all ok", but the negative accumulated and then "big boom" after which you'll need a lot efforts to return the relations to norma. This is why you'll try adopt to them as much as possibly with the compassion, tenderness and caution. To avoid "big booms" and to being able to control them by the sympathy you inspire in them. As the more sympathy you are getting - the more conformism will be shown to you to tolerate more from you.
    E-9 are very touchy and emotionally tender people, but this is not clear on the surface. They look as phlegmatic and easily forgiving. This makes you blind to what happens and if you'll pass some border - you get serious troubles. It's not just small and temporary troubles - you get the largest troubles which may to exist [including the break] and you get them rather suddenly.
    So if you value good relations - you'll do the best of you to reduce this risk. It's better to be overcautious and do as much good as you can, than then to try glue together the relations from almost zero, where you get the cold, indifference, roughness, etc. and do not understand how to return the relations on stable good way. To get temporary success will be not enough - you easily will stick in up-down series, where the relations may return to same zero not a single time and to level up them on better stable level will need huge efforts.
    It's very bad idea to control E-9 from negative side like blaming. It's more reasonably to establish the sympathy with them - and they'll agree with you by their natural high conformism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    What was said relates to E-9, which should be often base Fi. Not specific to EII only.

    E-9 are easily offenced and stop communications. But if they value the relations - they may tolerate you much on the surface - they'll show nothing or you'll notice only slight cold [while inside they may to have serious hurt - it's just stays covered]. This will not be like a lot of small quarrel where you can do maneurs, to have time to understand clearly what happens and how to deal with this. It will be "all ok", but the negative accumulated and then "big boom" after which you'll need a lot efforts to return the relations to norma. This is why you'll try adopt to them as much as possibly with the compassion, tenderness and caution. To avoid "big booms" and to being able to control them by the sympathy you inspire in them. As the more sympathy you are getting - the more conformism will be shown to you to tolerate more from you.
    E-9 are very touchy and emotionally tender people, but this is not clear on the surface. They look as phlegmatic and easily forgiving. This makes you blind to what happens and if you'll pass some border - you get serious troubles. It's not just small and temporary troubles - you get the largest troubles which may to exist [including the break] and you get them rather suddenly.
    So if you value good relations - you'll do the best of you to reduce this risk. It's better to be overcautious and do as much good as you can, than then to try glue together the relations from almost zero, where you get the cold, indifference, roughness, etc. and do not understand how to return the relations on stable good way. To get temporary success will be not enough - you easily will stick in up-down series, where the relations may return to same zero not a single time and to level up them on better stable level will need huge efforts.
    It's very bad idea to control E-9 from negative side like blaming. It's more reasonably to establish the sympathy with them - and they'll agree with you by their natural high conformism.
    @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol
    and you still type me as IEE Anyways, this ESI specific stuff makes me to shut it down. I don't want to deal with that kind of people in general [at least long term]. I don't want to serve pseudo-sensitive and pseudo-martyr complex having pseudo-princesses who can still handle real stuff and pressure people.

    EII stuff – I can certainly see astronomically much more value in it. It is much less egocentric to me. Anyways, it is just that they correct aka supervise when things get too logical for them.
    @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol @Sol
    Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 05-06-2018 at 05:48 PM.
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    @Troll Nr 007
    all is ok. the potential "not emotional" activator

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    Advice for EII: Just ignore SLEs. Your best weapon is to not acknowledge them, do not react indignantly and try to shame them because that will only make the situation worse.

    Advice for SLE: EIIs are stuck up and annoying a lot of time. Go find someone to hit on who isn't.

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    Updated link to EII interviewing SLE:


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    I've been friends with three SLEs now and my friendship has gone the same way every time. First, they ignore me and I think they are really cool: they occupy space confidently, everyone wants to be around them, fun seems to follow them around, they have lots of cool stories etc. (read: all the things a socially awkward EII lacks). Then if they are in my circle its usually because we have similar interests and at some point I'll make an observation about a common interest that will pique the SLE's interest. Following this is a weird period where they take me under their wing and say things like "wow, Lucy is actually cool!" and for a brief time will invite me to parties and make an effort to hang out with me. This is very short lived and ends with me thinking they're dicks and generally exhausting to be around. I decide that actually I don't want to be cool like them and they decide their first impression was actually right and I'm really boring (to them, anyway haha).

    In terms on conflict, only one of those three really butted heads with me. Though I think some (if not all of it) was her maturity levels. Like if something went wrong (i.e. we once got lost when on a group holiday together) she would loudly complain and blame every one else. She usually ends up bossing people (me) around (and bullying them [me], imo). But more generally I just find Se so tiring to be around. I want a three day nap after hanging with an Se-ego and at least a time-out after being with Ni-ego betas and gammas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    Don't listen to Maritsa. She doesn't know what she's talking about.

    In a nutshell, when EII seeks Te they act soft and cuddly...they play dumb in ways that requires somebody to step in and give them an explanation...that provokes Te (LSE) to step in and coach. Because the soft and cuddly EII seemingly puts up no resistance Te is totally activated for LSE, and LSE-EII dual. Ideally. That's basically what the essence of LSE is....the coach. Where LSE will step in to coach a blunt SLE will step in to tell the EII they're a simple-minded idiot, a whore, liar, and a weakling, and to toughen up. Realistically, SLE makes EII uncomfortable seeking Te...and a wise EII intuitively knows that SLE stands in the way of their ability to dualize.
    No SLE has ever told me that. And every SLE I’ve ever worked with loves that I take initiative and am hard working
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I have a good friend who is ESTp and probably for enneagram reasons things are peaceful between us. But we tried to work on a project together and that is where I could easily see how we have very complementary strengths but for some reason could not help each other.

    Part of it is the IEs and part was the rationality and irrationality.

    When we worked together it was like he could never take no for an answer. because when ever I got even close to saying no he would get a little more defensive each time, I sensed that and just backed off since I'm Se PoLR I felt like I couldn't put up much of a fight, but I also felt like I couldn't be honest and this made me less committed to the project we were working on, it felt like I wasn't really involved, only half of me, the half that didn't make him defensive.

    The problem was whenever he came up with ideas for a project my Ne could see all kinds of things that could go wrong and I would troubleshoot all the problems out loud with him like "Ok well what if this doesn't work, or what if this happens? If we do this, this is probably gonna happens do what do we do about that" And I could tell he hated that, but instead of saying "Well we could do this instead." he would just try and give me some answer to shut me up and stop making it seem like whatever idea he had wasn't gonna work, he took it as opposition instead of criticism.

    He also learned by doing and action and not hypothetical troubleshooting like how I did. When he came up with an idea , when I would think of all the potential problems and how to fix them beforehand he needed to put it out in the open and see what actually happens. There were times where he would even come back and say I was right but it was hard for me to understand why he couldn't see the same problems I saw beforehand, this was frustrating for both of us. To him it seemed like I was stopping him at every step and to me it seemed like he wasn't fullproofing his ideas.

    I also remember when we wanted to make a kickstarter page for our project and we both had 2 different approaches to that as well. I had the perfectionist approach where we had to have everything perfect before we made a page, and he had the rush to the finish line approach where he wanted to make a page within days with the least amount of things needed. Again he felt like I was 2 slow and I felt like he rushed way to much. He even said "I need the momentum in order to do this." like he needed a short term big goal in order to do it because if not it wasn't gonna get done.

    With the rational/irrational issues they were pretty literal to those terms. We were making a project with a certain theme, all the ideas I had were things within in that theme, while he felt like we could just toss anything that was trending/hot or just inspired him in the project regardless if it was according to the theme or not , which made my head spin.

    For ex: if we were making a baking company, one where you bake cakes, I would come up with ideas about frosting flavors, different kinds of cakes, catering. He would see figdit spinners selling like hot cakes and say "We have to sell those in the bakery." and we also have to sell video games because parents have kids, and we also have to sell rotisserie chicken because I read in an article that's booming, and also vegan, everything has to be vegan because vegans are on the rise!

    Next thing you know we not making a bakery, we're making Walmart.

    If I tried to argue "what does any of this have to do with a bakery, or cake?" He would just say "It doesn't matter, we can do whatever we want."
    And the store would be decorated with a deer head on the wall, a basketball hoop and comic book posters, instead of idk cake stuff lol. And he likes it that way. The randomness. The "doesn't make sense"ness of it all. That's like his element or something.

    So we differed there. Sometimes I was too rigid too on theme to the point of redundancy, and sometimes he was too loose everywhere all over the place, random. He felt like I was limiting his ideas too much and I felt like he kept getting distracted with shiny objects and kept being inconsistent.

    Where we had complementary strengths was:

    He had a hard time coming up with a working interesting consistent idea, but he was real resourceful gathering all these advanced tools to make things with and he also was real good with reaching out to the community to get people/press interested for projects, getting involved in local events and things, which I sucked at but totally needed. I was always couped up in my cave working on some idea but never got out to tell people and never found tools to shortcut the process, but I would dedicate hours/days/weeks just to come up with a working presentable idea, which he needed to take advantage of all the tools and attention he was able to get. So if we could have just worked together well those strengths would have complemented each other but welp our processes made us get in each other's way.

    Also I did notice he needs some kind of yes man or blind submission. There was one time in one of our brainstorm sessions he brought and EIE around and that guy was his biggest cheerleader, when I felt the urge to question the ESTp friend's ideas to point out why it's not gonna work the way he thinks it is and what is he gonna do about the glaring potential problems, the EIE would beat me to the punch and say "YES! THAT'S GENIUS BRO! YOU GOTTA DO IT!" and with my ESTp friend I could literally see the confidence in him light up like he started believing in himself more or something, I realized he actually needed that, but I couldn't give it to him because well I just couldn't get on board with an idea I saw all kinds of potential problems with. I guess he needed that Fe boost, and I couldn't fake it for him. When he did hear me out it felt like the wind was taken out of his sails, like the door to the direction he was getting geared up to go in just closed on him.

    Another ex: He had the idea to sell tee shirts with people's country flags on them (like a shirt with an italian flag, or puerto rican flag), he wanted to sell the shirts at a local gas station, he was excited because he asked the owner and the owner gave him the ok to sell in his store. He came to me excited and ready to get started on this and the first question that came to mind for me was "Why are people gonna buy clothes at a gas station?" , "The person has to be from the country or really like the country to be interested in buying." "How are people gonna find this place? Are you gonna advertise, or do you just expect them to randomly stumble in and buy a shirt?". Then I suggested "It might work if you do it at the time of the World Cup, that's when people wear their country's shirts, or whatever country they root for." And he felt like I took the wind out of his sales because he thought that was a good point but saw that the World Cup was no time soon.

    Still good friends but when trying to be productive we just worked against eachother.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 09-18-2020 at 03:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    I was visiting my brother and his roommate one day. His roommate's girlfriend whom I suspect was EII there at the time. For whatever my reason my LSI/SLE father tried to get into the house but the door was locked so he started banging loudly on the windows to try to see if anyone was inside. The EII freaked out and called the cops on my father. Luckily for my father the cops didn't take it too seriously and he got away without any penalties. (My dad was constantly getting into trouble with law so I think at that point the cops just took this kind of stuff as him just being himself.)

    So yeah, that's basically what EII/SLE relations are like from my experience. SLE scares EII, then the EII seeks help from authorities instead of addressing SLE directly which pisses off the SLE for the EII being such a god damn pussy.
    I mean that is scary, but I mean why would they even lock the door? I mean I understand the dad doesn't want his son doing some weird shit with a girl in his home in a locked room. I'd need to know more before I judge.
    Last edited by Asshole; 03-20-2023 at 05:03 AM.

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    My experience is different since I do have some issues due to having a traumatic childhood, but here are some of my stories/reflections.

    Background:[ I met this guy during middle school, 7th grade. I saw him get jumped daily, which reminded my relationship dynamic I had with my mom, so I jumped the people who had basically harmed him. During middle school, that was when I was the most volitional. Just whenever I saw assholes I always liked to fight/humiliate them, I mean I needed something to take out all my pent up anger at, and no way I would want to hurt someone innocent. So then I started to try to be someone who justified things my own way, and it was mainly in a violent way. I ended up dumping the dude who stole the lunch in a trash can, my EII friend was scared and tried to get me to stop, even though I was the only reason no one tried to pick on him since that day we met. Though he did at least thank me for getting him to be more respected, and then he would help me study in return. We had a lot of interests, and I really attracted to his more tender and soft personality, so I asked him to be friends, and he went with it. Eventually I was sticking up for him, pushing anyone I believed would take advantage of him since then, but I'd get frustrated since he kept on forgiving those fucking parasites.]

    Once I was just violently sexually assaulted, by an ex in the girls restroom. Also I couldn’t beat them as I was pinned down by her friends, and she was about to switch schools. Nor could I report as I would be outing myself to the school and my parents that I was formerly in a homosexual relationship, and since I am pretty private about such matters in person, online I’d say it if it was needed for context, but in reality if you know me I am very guarded, I generally expect that people will always have malicious intentions so I just assume its always malicious. So i just swallowed it like every other traumatic event in my life, after all the way I think is that “what the hell am I feeling, even still why is even your business.” And that day, I wasn’t in the best of mindset. So I had a friend, a guy, fat, let girls walk all over him. He was the type to be like “misandry is justifiable, its what men get from oppressing women” and more shit. Which as a friend, I wanted whats best for him, and he was one of the very few that I genuinely cared about as he was the one of the only people who turned out not to be snakes. So I got fed up, and it sort of make me just, its hard to describe, but I was just so angry I wasn’t in control of myself so I just took out all my turmoil on him as a lesson what happens to when you let others step on you. He didn’t even deserve it to be honest, and I hate myself for it, he forgave me knowing I tend to abandon broken relations since I just suck at making genuine friendships. So then him forgiving me made me break down, as someone that genuinely had helped me I was rejecting him as a whole since I started to feel like I was just a last opinion to cure his loneliness. He was stubborn and annoying, but looking back at it, I really do thank him so much for sticking around.

    He was a reliable was just very kind…I felt like I ruined a friendship that I even forgot that I relied on for some stability, but he knew everything about my childhood and background since I was friends with him for so long. I always tried to help him get stronger and set better boundaries, as its just something he clearly lacks, and I see him as helpless especially since his mother hates men and is a radical misandrist. So I naturally just wanted to help people that seem helpless in a situation that they don’t deserve to be in, but I’m pretty terrible at the delivery. So he was patient and just told my dad that I had a mental break down in private without going into details, as I didn't want anyone knowing what happened to me. So my Dad would then try to get me to talk about my issues, but I still didn’t tell him about me getting Sexually assaulted. I don’t want to tell anyone in real life, as doing so makes me feel like I’m allowing myself to be a victim and I never was really shown a way to even handle personal emotions and judgement at a young age. So I just constantly feel as if I can’t be the victim its just my fault that I wasn’t able to prevent it of my fault for not getting back at them. So eventually I just sort of detached myself from allowing my traumatic experiences shape who I am, as it only makes me so unstable and just so violent as I felt like I didn't have any other outlet.

    I had felt like a monster compared to him, and when he forgave me I always felt confused and scared by it. Then on top of that, he would just try and "fix" me, and tried to be my best friend(now he is, or someone I'd consider the only friend I feel a intense emotional connection with). It's strange having one friend you know that will always be there for you. I was pretty harsh towards him in the past, and may have made him cry, but it was my way of trying to show I care for him as I wanted him to improve himself. Eventually he started to work out alongside me and while he sucked, eventually he did become more healthy. Also, I have to point out that he was sort of lazy at times of stress, which I usually would work my ass off when I'm stressed, so we can get into mild arguments but he shuts me up with offering me food. Our friendship is chaotic(because of me), but he has really helped me who I really was and to learn to trust others more often, other than being less offensive. I mean I constantly make offensive jokes, even ones about myself, and he just stares at me in disappointment telling me when I've gone too far(which I rely on). However, I do always find a way to make him laugh or feel better, just in spontaneous random ways.

    I scared him at first, but as he learned more about me and my past, he didn't react too much and sort of found a way to calm me down eventually. Though there are traits about him that I tried to weed out myself, like him not taking action or just not being as productive as me when under pressure, trying to please people or not trying to offend anyone. I respect him for sticking to what he thinks is right, and care for him, but I don't understand him, but he can understand me somehow, or at least I think he does. I have tried to evoke anger in him before, but the dude is seriously incapable of even cursing. We are polar opposites, and our friendship has always been comical for the most part, basically a boring dude and an unhinged chick.

    This EII guy did have a generally huge impact on my behavior, I say I am less aggressive on average, but still on guard. I sort of mellowed out because of him, as now I think twice before I act out and I started to cut out the people that cause me to become so easily aggravated with a good reason instead of isolating myself from everyone else. On top of that, he also taught me that violence isn't the best way to end a conflict. I still get into fights, but only with people who start it now. As for him, he started to take care of himself more often, and guess what? He even learned to say no to people more often. In the end, conflicting socionic types may not get along, or may. Just because some pseudo-science says your relation with an individual won't work, it's BS for the most part unless either or both of you are unstable. People will only get along is they put in the effort too, regardless of type.
    Last edited by Asshole; 03-20-2023 at 07:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotAndCold View Post
    My experience is different since I do have some issues due to having a traumatic childhood, but here are some of my stories/reflections.

    Background:[ I met this guy during middle school, 7th grade. I saw him get jumped daily, which reminded my relationship dynamic I had with my mom, so I jumped the people who had basically harmed him. During middle school, that was when I was the most volitional. Just whenever I saw assholes I always liked to fight/humiliate them, I mean I needed something to take out all my pent up anger at, and no way I would want to hurt someone innocent. So then I started to try to be someone who justified things my own way, and it was mainly in a violent way. I ended up dumping the dude who stole the lunch in a trash can, my EII friend was scared and tried to get me to stop, even though I was the only reason no one tried to pick on him since that day we met. Though he did at least thank me for getting him to be more respected, and then he would help me study in return. We had a lot of interests, and I really attracted to his more tender and soft personality, so I asked him to be friends, and he went with it. Eventually I was sticking up for him, pushing anyone I believed would take advantage of him since then, but I'd get frustrated since he kept on forgiving those fucking parasites.]

    Once I was just violently sexually assaulted, by an ex in the girls restroom. Also I couldn’t beat them as I was pinned down by her friends, and she was about to switch schools. Nor could I report as I would be outing myself to the school and my parents that I was formerly in a homosexual relationship, and since I am pretty private about such matters in person, online I’d say it if it was needed for context, but in reality if you know me I am very guarded, I generally expect that people will always have malicious intentions so I just assume its always malicious. So i just swallowed it like every other traumatic event in my life, after all the way I think is that “what the hell am I feeling, even still why is even your business.” And that day, I wasn’t in the best of mindset. So I had a friend, a guy, fat, let girls walk all over him. He was the type to be like “misandry is justifiable, its what men get from oppressing women” and more shit. Which as a friend, I wanted whats best for him, and he was one of the very few that I genuinely cared about as he was the one of the only people who turned out not to be snakes. So I got fed up, and it sort of make me just, its hard to describe, but I was just so angry I wasn’t in control of myself so I just took out all my turmoil on him as a lesson what happens to when you let others step on you. He didn’t even deserve it to be honest, and I hate myself for it, he forgave me knowing I tend to abandon broken relations since I just suck at making genuine friendships. So then him forgiving me made me break down, as someone that genuinely had helped me I was rejecting him as a whole since I started to feel like I was just a last opinion to cure his loneliness. He was stubborn and annoying, but looking back at it, I really do thank him so much for sticking around.

    He was a reliable was just very kind…I felt like I ruined a friendship that I even forgot that I relied on for some stability, but he knew everything about my childhood and background since I was friends with him for so long. I always tried to help him get stronger and set better boundaries, as its just something he clearly lacks, and I see him as helpless especially since his mother hates men and is a radical misandrist. So I naturally just wanted to help people that seem helpless in a situation that they don’t deserve to be in, but I’m pretty terrible at the delivery. So he was patient and just told my dad that I had a mental break down in private without going into details, as I didn't want anyone knowing what happened to me. So my Dad would then try to get me to talk about my issues, but I still didn’t tell him about me getting Sexually assaulted. I don’t want to tell anyone in real life, as doing so makes me feel like I’m allowing myself to be a victim and I never was really shown a way to even handle personal emotions and judgement at a young age. So I just constantly feel as if I can’t be the victim its just my fault that I wasn’t able to prevent it of my fault for not getting back at them. So eventually I just sort of detached myself from allowing my traumatic experiences shape who I am, as it only makes me so unstable and just so violent as I felt like I didn't have any other outlet.

    I had felt like a monster compared to him, and when he forgave me I always felt confused and scared by it. Then on top of that, he would just try and "fix" me, and tried to be my best friend(now he is, or someone I'd consider the only friend I feel a intense emotional connection with). It's strange having one friend you know that will always be there for you. I was pretty harsh towards him in the past, and may have made him cry, but it was my way of trying to show I care for him as I wanted him to improve himself. Eventually he started to work out alongside me and while he sucked, eventually he did become more healthy. Also, I have to point out that he was sort of lazy at times of stress, which I usually would work my ass off when I'm stressed, so we can get into mild arguments but he shuts me up with offering me food. Our friendship is chaotic(because of me), but he has really helped me who I really was and to learn to trust others more often, other than being less offensive. I mean I constantly make offensive jokes, even ones about myself, and he just stares at me in disappointment telling me when I've gone too far(which I rely on). However, I do always find a way to make him laugh or feel better, just in spontaneous random ways.

    I scared him at first, but as he learned more about me and my past, he didn't react too much and sort of found a way to calm me down eventually. Though there are traits about him that I tried to weed out myself, like him not taking action or just not being as productive as me when under pressure, trying to please people or not trying to offend anyone. I respect him for sticking to what he thinks is right, and care for him, but I don't understand him, but he can understand me somehow, or at least I think he does. I have tried to evoke anger in him before, but the dude is seriously incapable of even cursing. We are polar opposites, and our friendship has always been comical for the most part, basically a boring dude and an unhinged chick.

    This EII guy did have a generally huge impact on my behavior, I say I am less aggressive on average, but still on guard. I sort of mellowed out because of him, as now I think twice before I act out and I started to cut out the people that cause me to become so easily aggravated with a good reason instead of isolating myself from everyone else. On top of that, he also taught me that violence isn't the best way to end a conflict. I still get into fights, but only with people who start it now. As for him, he started to take care of himself more often, and guess what? He even learned to say no to people more often. In the end, conflicting socionic types may not get along, or may. Just because some pseudo-science says your relation with an individual won't work, it's BS for the most part unless either or both of you are unstable. People will only get along is they put in the effort too, regardless of type.
    .

    “. Which as a friend, I wanted whats best for him, and he was one of the very few that I genuinely cared about as he was the one of the only people who turned out not to be snakes”

    This:

    Shtirlits sometimes exacerbates relations himself and sufficiently quickly acquires a number of enemies. Therefore, the ethical program of his EII dual has a rescuing and preserving effect for LSE's own "problematic" ethical program, since it orients Shtirlits towards mutual amiability and understanding, mercy, grace. Dostoyevsky teaches Shtirlits to be magnanimous, to know how to forgive, he "softens"
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  24. #144
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    I’m not boring
    What do you mean by boring?
    I do yoga, calisthenics, I read, hike, I watch cooking videos, I swim in the summer, I eat out at different restaurants and I sometimes travel although not terribly much. I don’t talk much but I can come up with a tone of ideas
    How am I boring?
    Better yet why do I take such offense to this?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I'm definitely boring and it's a major, major insecurity of mine, especially after learning about Socionics which made me even more self-conscious of it. Whenever I join a conversation I can literally feel the conversation drying up before my eyes.. oops It doesn't help that my interests are not really things that are able to sustain a conversation.

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    I don’t really want to get close to them (it feels like it might be impossible for me to get close to an Fi PoLR type anyway). I have noticed Fi PoLR types can react strongly to normal Fi use, as I’m sure is true for me to Se. My dad, who is Fe PoLR, is a good example - he amplifies any perceived “tone” that people have or sometimes might not even have, after which he becomes indignant (E1). So neutral stuff can elicit a strong reaction with PoLR after which the other person now truly can become “negative” (when you’re dealing with conflictors). Se seems to give me nightmares anyway and I just don’t see the point in all this. I don't want to upset/"hurt" or stress anybody out because of my primary function either, which is partly why I maintain some psychological distance from my supervisees.
    Last edited by necrosebud; 03-30-2023 at 05:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Gather an ESTj or an ENTj with you. Make them kick the ESTp's ass.


    I don’t want them to “kick the ESTP’s ass” but it would be nice for someone to shield me from that stuff (prob best from LSE) and/or provide general advice (prob best from LIE).


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    That's interesting. I usually try my best to at least get along with everyone, or at least try to have some common ground. Usually I tend to reevaluate myself and try to understand why someone else would have a different mindset than me. Though he was the one person I had the most difficulties understanding, so I eventually started to sort of see what he went through on a daily bases and why he had a more passive mindset compared to me.

    I must agree that he did soften me, but I'm still pretty guarded and skeptical of people's intentions.

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    I don’t get it
    The SLE I’ve met were nice guys albeit somewhat codependent and sometimes jealous
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Yeah the most common experience I noticed with SLE-EII relationship is that the EII tends be offended, or feel off put by the SLE's joking comments. They take it personally even if it's just them picking/playing. Insecurity is not type related, but both of these alone can be a recipe of disaster if they're both insecure and project onto each other. An EII tries to avoid confrontation and conflict - even if that conflict will air out grievances and give every party closure to move on. SLE seems to thrive on it almost to the point they purposely pick at the EII - they don't take them seriously at all and don't know where they really stand with them since the EII will quietly deal with their feelings till they can't any longer then it's too late.

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    Can't really judge though. I felt off put by their comments too, it's just something I ignore and roll my eyes at. They're the types of bitches you have to give the cold shoulder to

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    Haven't really had any problems with SLE (albeit I haven't been in close psychological distance to them), except that they're a bit too flirtatious for me. I feel uncomfortable/flustered interacting with them sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    .

    “. Which as a friend, I wanted whats best for him, and he was one of the very few that I genuinely cared about as he was the one of the only people who turned out not to be snakes”

    This:

    Shtirlits sometimes exacerbates relations himself and sufficiently quickly acquires a number of enemies. Therefore, the ethical program of his EII dual has a rescuing and preserving effect for LSE's own "problematic" ethical program, since it orients Shtirlits towards mutual amiability and understanding, mercy, grace. Dostoyevsky teaches Shtirlits to be magnanimous, to know how to forgive, he "softens"

    For question, would this make him my duel or conflict?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotAndCold View Post
    For question, would this make him my duel or conflict?
    Could be either
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Could be either
    The fact it could be either already tells me my function stack is all over the place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotAndCold View Post
    The fact it could be either already tells me my function stack is all over the place.
    http://keys2cognition.com/
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post

    It is acting up, old sites are weird. Know any that are more recent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotAndCold View Post
    The fact it could be either already tells me my function stack is all over the place.
    If you're 16yo, it's reasonable to be not sure of your type yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotAndCold View Post
    The fact it could be either already tells me my function stack is all over the place.
    I typed as INTP in high school and also bc my father insisted I was "analytical" - I used the test in Please Understand Me. I think I got the same result again in Psych class in HS. Anyways, I realized later, when I posted on a forum with questionnaire, that I was probably INFP... a lot of things started making sense lol

    Just a few months or a couple of years ago idr I looked at my answers for the test in the book - I can't believe I picked what I picked haha

    but in a sense my definition of these terms have been strongly forged through spending years reading about personality types

    but anyways yeah

    things might become a bit 'clearer' or at least more solid as you get older


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    Quote Originally Posted by necrosebud View Post
    I typed as INTP in high school and also bc my father insisted I was "analytical" - I used the test in Please Understand Me. I think I got the same result again in Psych class in HS. Anyways, I realized later, when I posted on a forum with questionnaire, that I was probably INFP... a lot of things started making sense lol

    Just a few months or a couple of years ago idr I looked at my answers for the test in the book - I can't believe I picked what I picked haha

    but in a sense my definition of these terms have been strongly forged through spending years reading about personality types

    but anyways yeah

    things might become a bit 'clearer' or at least more solid as you get older
    I see, thanks for the clearance!

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