Dinner with an IEI/INFp

[UDP]

Oh, I forgot how these threads go, my bad.

[ScarlettLux]

Oh god.


This folks, is what happens when you REALLY take Socionics too far!

[implied]

i agree. it's also a sort of cookie-cutter approach to human relations that assumes that there's some one size fits all sort of mold that you can apply to every member of a certain type. i don't know if this is what bothered you about this thread, scarlett, but it would certainly bother me.

[Creepy-bg]

did this thread fail or something?

[Kristiina]

did this thread fail or something?

seems so. I wonder what was in the first post.

[Expat]

I've had dinner dates with SEI and IEI women -- the dinners usually went fine, I think being polite and not going for overly talk go a long way (ie get into emotion-creating mode). But the "relationships" did not really go anywhere.

I think the problem is not how you behave at dinner -- the problem is when, later, you reveal how much of a -jerk you are.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I think the problem is not how you behave at dinner -- the problem is when, later, you reveal how much of a -jerk you are.

Te jerk? But we're just stating the facts, mam! I think I know what you mean, and maybe summing it up by my sentence?

[aka-kitsune]

Damn! Missed it!

The title of this thread is making me hungry... what was for dinner anyway??

[UDP]

I've had dinner dates with SEI and IEI women -- the dinners usually went fine, I think being polite and not going for overly talk go a long way (ie get into emotion-creating mode). But the "relationships" did not really go anywhere.

I think the problem is not how you behave at dinner -- the problem is when, later, you reveal how much of a -jerk you are.

Haha, I wonder if that is what happened in this thread, in a way. (in regard to my initial responses. ((save for the video, which seems entirely out of place)))


Yeah, that is what I did, in regard to Expat's first paragraph. The dinner went well, save for some moments where I was talking about a variety of current events things, or went slightly in depth explaining some schoolwork things (which she asked about). Like I think she got bored there, because her facial expression changed. I remember some IEIs saying how boring ESTjs seem, or their topics of conversation, and it seemed to play out there a little bit. But she likes me as a person, we both like each other's values, so, that is a positive for our interaction


However, the more we talk the more I am becoming a "Te-jerk". It is not something I am going to be avoid. And as Expat said, it is actually a reason I am wary about the development of a relationship with my conflictor. I have never had exclusive one on one time with an INFp before, so it was at least interesting.


Also, (later, not at dinner), she was talking about someone very important to her that was "hurt really bad", and I tried to warn her enough about what I was going to say. Basically I was saying how you can't define yourself by the past, or past experiences, and no matter what happens you have to move on. Her response was something to the effect of "well some things are harder to get over than others". My input was well received but I could see I hurt her a little bit.... I'm not sure if my advice will be so well taken in the future (because I won't always give a warning, as it gets tedious to buffer my responses after a while).

I think that example was a general disregard or Ni as well, but I think some of more Te/Si advice is going to start offsetting her.

Speaking of Si, she is a complete victim as well.

I suspect one reason that people have a hard time accepting their erotic roles, or seeing them in other people, is that you have to get through the layer of bullshit that people put up and the sort of typical or learned reactions or defenses they have, before you get to their actual erotic nature. I know I get a lot of flak for talking about erotic roles at times, but to me there is no more vivid aspect of someone's personality than how they are sexually. That's not something you can fake very well.

[implied]

i have a feeling there's probably more to this than "being a Te-jerk" or whatever.

[Expat]

i have a feeling there's probably more to this than "being a Te-jerk" or whatever.

Looks like she's in a sort of rebound or something?

[UDP]

you INFps don't really like busy people, do you.

[Mediator Kam]

you INFps don't really like busy people, do you.

They probably don't mind if you're busy for them...

yes i'm very sick. *cough die*

[aka-kitsune]

Also, (later, not at dinner), she was talking about someone very important to her that was "hurt really bad", and I tried to warn her enough about what I was going to say. Basically I was saying how you can't define yourself by the past, or past experiences, and no matter what happens you have to move on. Her response was something to the effect of "well some things are harder to get over than others". My input was well received but I could see I hurt her a little bit.... I'm not sure if my advice will be so well taken in the future (because I won't always give a warning, as it gets tedious to buffer my responses after a while).

Well... this isn't necessary a type-related conflict. I notice this issue crop up in my relationships with all males. The male of the human species seems to want to "fix" situations, while the female aim isn't always about "fixing" or being "fixed".

You see, she told you abt a friend's situation. She didn't want a lecture. We never want lectures; often we don't want the pep talk. The best thing to do in situations where you don't know someone well enough to know if they appreciate that "fix-it" approach is to just listen and try and understand. If you're more interested in giving advice or the way YOU would handle it, you're probably not going to get along well. Are you truly interested in her feelings? Or are you just interested in moralizing? Of course we all should not get bogged down and move on eventually, some of us require more time to do so and don't really appreciate the motivational speech right away. That's more of a "give it time" thing.

It's not about "buffering" your responses, it's about being considerate of the other person and who they are. I'm always forgetting that a male friend may take whatever I'm sharing as an implicit request to "fix" something about myself. Most of the time, I'm not looking for fixes, I'm seeking understanding and empathy or just wanting the other person to know more about me. No fix necessary!

[xyz]

Haha, I wonder if that is what happened in this thread, in a way. (in regard to my initial responses. ((save for the video, which seems entirely out of place)))


Yeah, that is what I did, in regard to Expat's first paragraph. The dinner went well, save for some moments where I was talking about a variety of current events things, or went slightly in depth explaining some schoolwork things (which she asked about). Like I think she got bored there, because her facial expression changed. I remember some IEIs saying how boring ESTjs seem, or their topics of conversation, and it seemed to play out there a little bit. But she likes me as a person, we both like each other's values, so, that is a positive for our interaction


However, the more we talk the more I am becoming a "Te-jerk". It is not something I am going to be avoid. And as Expat said, it is actually a reason I am wary about the development of a relationship with my conflictor. I have never had exclusive one on one time with an INFp before, so it was at least interesting.


Also, (later, not at dinner), she was talking about someone very important to her that was "hurt really bad", and I tried to warn her enough about what I was going to say. Basically I was saying how you can't define yourself by the past, or past experiences, and no matter what happens you have to move on. Her response was something to the effect of "well some things are harder to get over than others". My input was well received but I could see I hurt her a little bit.... I'm not sure if my advice will be so well taken in the future (because I won't always give a warning, as it gets tedious to buffer my responses after a while).

I think that example was a general disregard or Ni as well, but I think some of more Te/Si advice is going to start offsetting her.

Speaking of Si, she is a complete victim as well.

I suspect one reason that people have a hard time accepting their erotic roles, or seeing them in other people, is that you have to get through the layer of bullshit that people put up and the sort of typical or learned reactions or defenses they have, before you get to their actual erotic nature. I know I get a lot of flak for talking about erotic roles at times, but to me there is no more vivid aspect of someone's personality than how they are sexually. That's not something you can fake very well.

Maybe you're just a boring man, and you bored her.

[aka-kitsune]

Maybe you're just a boring man, and you bored her.

We do bore of the mundane easily. *yawn*.

[xyz]

Well... this isn't necessary a type-related conflict. I notice this issue crop up in my relationships with all males. The male of the human species seems to want to "fix" situations, while the female aim isn't always about "fixing" or being "fixed".

You see, she told you abt a friend's situation. She didn't want a lecture. We never want lectures; often we don't want the pep talk. The best thing to do in situations where you don't know someone well enough to know if they appreciate that "fix-it" approach is to just listen and try and understand. If you're more interested in giving advice or the way YOU would handle it, you're probably not going to get along well. Are you truly interested in her feelings? Or are you just interested in moralizing? Of course we all should not get bogged down and move on eventually, some of us require more time to do so and don't really appreciate the motivational speech right away. That's more of a "give it time" thing.

It's not about "buffering" your responses, it's about being considerate of the other person and who they are. I'm always forgetting that a male friend may take whatever I'm sharing as an implicit request to "fix" something about myself. Most of the time, I'm not looking for fixes, I'm seeking understanding and empathy or just wanting the other person to know more about me. No fix necessary!

Sadly she's right, she just wants you to listen as a friend. If you don't want to be just friends, just let her know that you're not one of her girlfriends and she can go mope to someone else, you're here on a date.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Sadly she's right, she just wants you to listen as a friend. If you don't want to be just friends, just let her know that you're not one of her girlfriends and she can go mope to someone else, you're here on a date.

I think your right

[implied]

Looks like she's in a sort of rebound or something?

yeah, quite possibly. i also figure UDP isn't getting anywhere blaming it on "Te/Fe" conflicts. i think a lot of women (and plenty men,) regardless of type would react poorly.


anyhow, the Te people here aren't typically jerks, expat. (;

[Ezra]

UDP, I don't understand you. First you say you're an LSE, then you profess your love for your conflictor. It's like Alice In Wonderland. Notonegoddamnthing evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev ereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverever evereverevereverevereverevereverevereverevereverev erever makes esnes? doN'T yew think.

[Expat]

anyhow, the Te people here aren't typically jerks, expat. (;

Well types that don't like Te might think otherwise.

Anyway, I think the whole "I hope the dinner date went well" thing is vastly overrated. Unless you behave like a total idiot/jerk/whatever, how you talk/behave in one single dinner isn't going to "make or break" a suppposed relationship. If it "does", then there was nothing going on there to begin with.

[implied]

Well types that don't like Te might think otherwise.

Anyway, I think the whole "I hope the dinner date went well" thing is vastly overrated. Unless you behave like a total idiot/jerk/whatever, how you talk/behave in one single dinner isn't going to "make or break" a suppposed relationship. If it "does", then there was nothing going on there to begin with.

agree. well, he might behave like a total idiot/jerk/whatever, and in that case i don't think it's fair to blame it on "Te", either. he's probably just a jerk.

[Mediator Kam]

agree. well, he might behave like a total idiot/jerk/whatever, and in that case i don't think it's fair to blame it on "Te", either. he's probably just a jerk.

Implied, you are extremely rude.

[xyz]

You mean a jerk?!

[Cudcat]

You mean a jerk?!

[Mediator Kam]

You mean a jerk?!

I wouldn't say that, but people just sitting there getting your jollies off character assassination and slander is a poor way to point out someone's flaws.
Really, I never understood what was the big deal with his original post, but his conflictors ganging up on him and calling him everything but a white woman is really pitiful. I cannot sit mute and condone it.

[xyz]

I wouldn't say that, but people just sitting there getting your jollies off character assassination and slander is a poor way to point out someone's flaws.
Really, I never understood what was the big deal with his original post, but his conflictors ganging up on him and calling him everything but a white woman is really pitiful. I cannot sit mute and condone it.

I'm sorry it eats away at you so.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Well types that don't like Te might think otherwise.

Anyway, I think the whole "I hope the dinner date went well" thing is vastly overrated. Unless you behave like a total idiot/jerk/whatever, how you talk/behave in one single dinner isn't going to "make or break" a suppposed relationship. If it "does", then there was nothing going on there to begin with.

agree. well, he might behave like a total idiot/jerk/whatever, and in that case i don't think it's fair to blame it on "Te", either. he's probably just a jerk.

I wouldn't say that, but people just sitting there getting your jollies off character assassination and slander is a poor way to point out someone's flaws.
Really, I never understood what was the big deal with his original post, but his conflictors ganging up on him and calling him everything but a white woman is really pitiful. I cannot sit mute and condone it.

Eh, are you sure they're discussing UDP? I thought they were just discussing a general situation, where if dinner date conversations don't really matter, unless a person (any person) behaves like a total jerk. I think you're taking it out of context there Kam

[Mediator Kam]

Eh, are you sure they're discussing UDP? I thought they were just discussing a general situation, where if dinner date conversations don't really matter, unless a person (any person) behaves like a total jerk. I think you're taking it out of context there Kam

No, if you reread what was last said by Implied, the use of "he" was much too vague to be referring to any man. It was discussing a specific person, and it was obviously UDP.

[ScarlettLux]

I'm sorry it eats away at you so.

LOLOL

[force my hand]

Did you enjoy the date, UDP?

[implied]

i was defending the reputation of Te, not UDP! i'm saying i know plenty of Te people who are great listeners and generally not "jerks." (i can say the same for some Ti people.) her perception of UDP of being unpleasant company may have nothing to do with some Fe/Te functional clash.

[implied]

w#s@19dc!! Kiss my ass. (Joking!)

i like carla regardless of her Te/Ti preference!

[Creepy-bg]

actually UDP is a pretty big jerk.

[aka-kitsune]

Sadly she's right, she just wants you to listen as a friend. If you don't want to be just friends, just let her know that you're not one of her girlfriends and she can go mope to someone else, you're here on a date.

How did you come up with that bit of nastiness from what I wrote? ?????
I'm truly mystified.

When I talk to a guy about my friends, about myself and my own feelings, why would you assume it would mean I "just" want to be friends?? Is it not conceivable that I might also want a romantic relationship with someone I could actually be friends with?

I suppose I just "date" wrong if one of the rules is don't talk about downer stuff. I didn't tend to think there's certain prescribed ways of acting I had to follow on a date as opposed to getting to know anyone else I might be interested in.

(Are you really so harsh or are you just being sarcastic again...? So difficult to tell over the Internet...)

[Ezra]

Implied, you are extremely rude.

It's called honesty.

I wouldn't say that, but people just sitting there getting your jollies off character assassination and slander is a poor way to point out someone's flaws.

Character assassination is what Se valuing types live for. It provides entertainment, debate and a good ol' fashioned fight to clear the air. Tally ho, chaps! And I wouldn't say that implied was using slander. What she says is in full view of UDP.

Really, I never understood what was the big deal with his original post[...]

It's not about his original post; it's about him as a person.

No one on this forum likes Se types who post too much. The Se devaluers want some peace and quiet, the Se valuers are jealous of the top dogs, and the IEIs just want my cock.

Herzy is respected because she's been here longer than most who still post.

[redbaron]

How did you come up with that bit of nastiness from what I wrote? ?????
I'm truly mystified.

When I talk to a guy about my friends, about myself and my own feelings, why would you assume it would mean I "just" want to be friends?? Is it not conceivable that I might also want a romantic relationship with someone I could actually be friends with?

I suppose I just "date" wrong if one of the rules is don't talk about downer stuff. I didn't tend to think there's certain prescribed ways of acting I had to follow on a date as opposed to getting to know anyone else I might be interested in.

I COMPLETELY agree with you! I thought the exact same thing. Anyway, UDP sounds like a typical male, trying to fix stuff. All the males I know would probably say something similar, regardless of type.

[xyz]

How did you come up with that bit of nastiness from what I wrote? ?????
I'm truly mystified.

When I talk to a guy about my friends, about myself and my own feelings, why would you assume it would mean I "just" want to be friends?? Is it not conceivable that I might also want a romantic relationship with someone I could actually be friends with?

I suppose I just "date" wrong if one of the rules is don't talk about downer stuff. I didn't tend to think there's certain prescribed ways of acting I had to follow on a date as opposed to getting to know anyone else I might be interested in.

(Are you really so harsh or are you just being sarcastic again...? So difficult to tell over the Internet...)

I meant as one of the first few dates.
I've known "users" who just dump their emotions on a guy, the guy starts caring and all that jazz, and the girl basically flutters away to another guy who does it for her.

I'm not saying you're that way. I'm saying women can be just as harsh.
Most young women that i've known (18-21) never date someone they can be friends with. Most young women (and some older women too) just date guys they're attracted to. Completely different.

Edit: And remember, you, by the very fact that you're on this forum, already don't fit the profile of a good chunk of women.

[aka-kitsune]

I meant as one of the first few dates.
I've known "users" who just dump their emotions on a guy, the guy starts caring and all that jazz, and the girl basically flutters away to another guy who does it for her.

I guess this is one of the reasons I don't really "date". Up front, there's some pressure that right off the bat you have to be interested in a relationship. I don't "use" guys. I talk, get to know them, try not to mislead them that spending time is actually "dating" if I'm not attracted to them. I've been in situations where I was never interested in a relationship with someone, tried to make that clear, and assumed we had a friendship. Unfortunately, they apparently didn't agree.

Once I become aware that they probably want more, (I usually pick up some hostility and resentment) I distance myself. I find myself uncomfortable with anyone who wants more than I'm going to give them.

I've found it's very all or nothing. The only successful friendships I've had with guys has been "safe" ones: gay men and married men. That way I know they're not going to eventually get bitter b/c I don't want to sleep with them. Other than that, I've often pursued close friendships with guys I was immensely attracted to, hoping it would blossom into a relationship eventually.

I'm not saying you're that way. I'm saying women can be just as harsh.
Most young women that i've known (18-21) never date someone they can be friends with. Most young women (and some older women too) just date guys they're attracted to. Completely different.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Why would anyone date someone they're NOT attracted to??

Edit: And remember, you, by the very fact that you're on this forum, already don't fit the profile of a good chunk of women.

OK... still, I think it's kinda unreasonable to make assumptions of someone's intentions when you don't really know them well.

[FDG]

Most young women that i've known (18-21) never date someone they can be friends with. Most young women (and some older women too) just date guys they're attracted to. Completely different.

How are the two groups not overlapping?