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Thread: Differences between +Fi and -Fi

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    Default Differences between +Fi and -Fi

    +Fi: that which draws you to others (that which you want)
    -Fi: that which draws others to you (that which others want from you)

    I say this only with regard to the aspects themselves. not the elements.

    Although + and - are often described as "that which one has" vs "that which one lacks", I see this as a problematic appraisal. Particularly, they both seem to be concerned with the production of new content, which they guage as lacking relative to their content level of their contraries of the opposite sign. (-Fe and +Fe in the case of ISFjs/INFjs) Thus there is always a lacking -- that's part and parcel of the problem.

    I say this with regard only to the elements themselves, not their functions. On the other hand, there do appear to be problems with this view.

    I'm not satisfied that this position is the correct one. Please critique.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 03-09-2008 at 11:43 AM.

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    It seems to me reasonable that -Fi is that which others like about you based on something you give them that they can receive and use, whatever that is. Similarly, +Fi is that which you want from others. (your motive) Between these two is the substance of ethic: giving and getting in equal proportion. (fairness)

    However, it is undeniable that there is a definite sunny side to +Fi that there isn't with -Fi. But I wonder if this holds true for all cases....

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Flawed approach. When you speak about "Fe+" you're talking about something that is supposed to be commonly held by a grouping of types so large and inhomogeneous that it can hardly be spoken about as group with common characteristics. "Fe+" means "the characteristics common between all beta NF types AND all gamma SF types when inversed in foreground/background". See how clumsy and cumbersome the definition is...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Flawed approach. When you speak about "Fe+" you're talking about something that is supposed to be commonly held by a grouping of types so large and inhomogeneous that it can hardly be spoken about as group with common characteristics. "Fe+" means "the characteristics common between all beta NF types AND all gamma SF types when inversed in foreground/background". See how clumsy and cumbersome the definition is...?
    What does that have to do with my statement about Fi?

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    Substitute Fi and whatever types have Fi+... he's talking about a different element, but it's a good analogy. So far as I can tell, he's claiming that generalized descriptions are impossible... which is where I disagree with him. There is always a way to group eight types as opposed to the other eight.



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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    +Fi: that which draws you to others (that which you want)
    -Fi: that which draws others to you (that which others want from you)

    I say this only with regard to the aspects themselves. not the elements.

    Although + and - are often described as "that which one has" vs "that which one lacks", I see this as a problematic appraisal. Particularly, they both seem to be concerned with the production of new content, which they guage as lacking relative to their content level of their contraries of the opposite sign. (-Fe and +Fe in the case of ISFjs/INFjs) Thus there is always a lacking -- that's part and parcel of the problem.

    I say this with regard only to the elements themselves, not their functions. On the other hand, there do appear to be problems with this view.

    I'm not satisfied that this position is the correct one. Please critique.
    i never saw much difference between that which one lacks and that which one possesses as realization of that which one lacks implies a sort of possession, at least of knowledge. am i wrong to assume we are dealing more with a question of potential versus actual?
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

    Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee

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    Here's a question: how does one deduce the content level of a producing element?

    I would argue that the role of the foreground producer is to surpass the level of the background producer, because this allows it to nullify the effect the background producer its exerting. (via its slave element, of course) It has superior magnitude and thus, dictates the character of the function as a whole.

    Were the background function not confronted, it would empower the background acceptor against the foreground acceptor, creating a state of submission to the background that would reflect itself in something akin to a brief psychotic episode.


    As for the thread topic, I've reached an answer to the delimma: valuations of "more" or "less" are exclusively properties of the elements, not the aspects. A negative element will always see a deficit in its own status; a positive element, conversely, will perceive of itself as abundant.

    Joy's earlier assertion that the elements and aspects are distinct -- and Rick's, too -- was correct.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 03-11-2008 at 03:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa View Post
    i never saw much difference between that which one lacks and that which one possesses as realization of that which one lacks implies a sort of possession, at least of knowledge. am i wrong to assume we are dealing more with a question of potential versus actual?
    The problem is that we are indeed in possession of realization... however, that is not what we need. We are only in possession of realization because there exists an imbalance between the foreground and the background.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Substitute Fi and whatever types have Fi+... he's talking about a different element, but it's a good analogy. So far as I can tell, he's claiming that generalized descriptions are impossible... which is where I disagree with him. There is always a way to group eight types as opposed to the other eight.
    There might be a clumsy and cumbersome way though.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Yeah.

    That post was basically me voicing some personal gripes I have with people using functions in their reasoning as if they were anything other than groupings of types. In hindsight it was probably not the most mature thing to do. Its one of those fundamental differences between slave beta and slave delta that members of the two camps are unavoidably going to be exchanging punches about when discussing socionics together.

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