Welcome FDG

[discojoe]

I've decided you're ESFp (and that you always have been).

This does not mean you are stupid or bad at math or economics.

Good day.

[FDG]

Err, thank you for welcoming me in the right quadra

[discojoe]

Err, thank you for welcoming me in the right quadra

Oh, this had nothing to do with what quadra you thought you were part of. This was my own decision between Beta and Gamma.

[FDG]

Well, yeah, I mean, thank you for at least welcoming me in the right quadra.

[discojoe]

Well, yeah, I mean, thank you for at least welcoming me in the right quadra.

You're welcome. Now please familiarize yourself with your particular assortment of information elements:

[FDG]

You're welcome. Now please familiarize yourself with your particular assortment of information elements:

If that was my true type, I wouldn't need to familiarize.

Anyway, I find this highly annoying to be honest.

[discojoe]

If that was my true type, I wouldn't need to familiarize.

Anyway, I find this highly annoying to be honest.

What I find annoying is your pretending to be ENTj. u shud stoppit.

[UDP]

Does FDG and rationality mix?

[FDG]

What I find annoying is your pretending to be ENTj. u shud stoppit.

I'm not pretending, it's just the way it is...I can't pretend something so obvious. But anyway, it's pointless.

Does FDG and rationality mix?

What's against rationality in my lifestyle?

[UDP]

You seem to react strongly against any sort of judgment. But I don't know much about your lifestyle, other than you're a college student and avid biker. I was more asking you if you really thought you'd get along well with rationals, as opposed to irrationals. Or, if you'd get along with an ISFj, in terms of their rationality, but you have said that you have been in a lot of relationships with that type, if I remember correctly.

So you definitely see yourself as more rational than irrational, yes?

[olduser]

udp makes a very insightful point; fdg is thoroughly against judging others-- at least on the internet. i think this is a big element of his personality.

[Phaedrus]

FDG is an ENTj. Accept that fact.

[discojoe]

udp makes a very insightful point; fdg is thoroughly against judging others-- at least on the internet. i think this is a big element of his personality.

No he's not.

[FDG]

Me and rationality, uhm, I do tend to plan things out a bit, but irrationals do it too to an extent, I suppose. That's not a strong point at all.
I've never deviated from a given "path" so to speak (ex. in school-career matters), which is usually said to be a characteristic of NJ's. This could be a better point, given that ET is not being questioned I think.
I also don't think I tend to become revved up when the deadline is approaching...I prefer to rationally distribute what I have to do in order to always be tranquil.
And yeah UDP, all of my longest time friends are ISFjs (or ENTjs), one ISTp, not much else. INTps? I've known some, I've known some INTp girls too. Very cool and smart, I've seen them operating and having doubts in relationships though, and I couldn't see how I could give them what I wanted, given that I tend to have similar doubts (typical of thinking types - actually, the fact that I'm a thinking type is something incredibly obvious, much more than the fact that I'm a judging type)

Still, probably all of these are rather weak arguments, given that P-J is a somewhat blurry dichotomy for all types except the creative sensing ones.

[Elro]

FDG is an ENTj. Accept that fact.

Well, I'm convinced.

[UDP]

I've never deviated from a given "path" so to speak (ex. in school-career matters), which is usually said to be a characteristic of NJ's.

Heh, if that's the case, there is no way I am NJ

[Joy]

It's not. (At least not that I've heard of or observed.)

[discojoe]

Here's my case (yes, this is contrived, but all type arguments must be):

You talk about being active, exercising, doing what you want, being free, etc., in an Se-leading way, giving the impression that you bounce off the walls from activity to activity, trying to find outlets for all your energy. This is mainly a stereotypical observation, but it's one I've made to myself enough times that I think it deserves mentioning.

Arguing skills: You either put up limited, half-assed defenses, and then usually back out surreptitiously without word, or you get defensive, lose your temper and resort to pure, hilarious insults (e.g., calling Joy an "absolute bitch" -- LOL) to make it clear what you think of the person for making you uncomfortable. Strong Fi and Ti PoLR. A logical type would be much less inclined to make the kinds of ultimatums you make, and would be more receptive than you tend to be. For example, you tend to keep it private when you process information until you've come to "the" conclusion, and instead of presenting these conclusions comfortably and dynamically, you mentally build them into complete "products" and seem very uncomfortable sharing your reasoning, (like saying, "Why would I argue about something so obvious", even though it's clear you're not confident at all in your conclusions) preferring to stonewall instead, as the "product" is absolute and not something you can dynamically alter with any deal of comfort. ESTps and ENTjs are usually comfortable sharing their reasoning and the logical steps they've taken. You seem to try to at times, but only with subjects you've spent a lot of time with, and even then it's in a rigid, limited capacity. It's an ESFp feeling as though an outside critique is actually a hostile attempt at imposing "rules" on them.

You respond well to my Se harassment, like when I make fun of Italians for consuming 25 lbs of pasta and meatballs daily. I think you naturally see the silliness and harmlessness of it and it doesn't really bother you because you don't see it as an attempt to belittle you personally.

I think you show Ne Role in how you are so obviously uncomfortable with this "new" idea I'm presenting here, like you're not really sure if it can be "trusted," saying it's annoying. You do this with Joy all the time, basically dismissing her based on the "fact" that she's insane and can't be trusted because of how uncomfortable she makes you with all the things she says.

So in closing, go fuck an INTp.

[ScarlettLux]

Here's my case (yes, this is contrived, but all type arguments must be):

You talk about being active, exercising, doing what you want, being free, etc., in an Se-leading way, giving the impression that you bounce off the walls from activity to activity, trying to find outlets for all your energy. This is mainly a stereotypical observation, but it's one I've made to myself enough times that I think it deserves mentioning.

Arguing skills: You either put up limited, half-assed defenses, and then usually back out surreptitiously without word, or you get defensive, lose your temper and resort to pure, hilarious insults (e.g., calling Joy an "absolute bitch" -- LOL) to make it clear what you think of the person for making you uncomfortable. Strong Fi and Ti PoLR. A logical type would be much less inclined to make the kinds of ultimatums you make, and would be more receptive than you tend to be. For example, you tend to keep it private when you process information until you've come to "the" conclusion, and instead of presenting these conclusions comfortably and dynamically, you mentally build them into complete "products" and seem very uncomfortable sharing your reasoning, (like saying, "Why would I argue about something so obvious", even though it's clear you're not confident at all in your conclusions) preferring to stonewall instead, as the "product" is absolute and not something you can dynamically alter with any deal of comfort. ESTps and ENTjs are usually comfortable sharing their reasoning and the logical steps they've taken. You seem to try to at times, but only with subjects you've spent a lot of time with, and even then it's in a rigid, limited capacity. It's an ESFp feeling as though an outside critique is actually a hostile attempt at imposing "rules" on them.

You respond well to my Se harassment, like when I make fun of Italians for consuming 25 lbs of pasta and meatballs daily. I think you naturally see the silliness and harmlessness of it and it doesn't really bother you because you don't see it as an attempt to belittle you personally.

I think you show Ne Role in how you are so obviously uncomfortable with this "new" idea I'm presenting here, like you're not really sure if it can be "trusted," saying it annoys. You do this with Joy all the time, basically dismissing her based on the "fact" that she's insane and can't be trusted because of how uncomfortable she makes you with all the things she say.

So in closing, go fuck an INTp.

*STANDING OVATION*

[Joy]

For example, you tend to keep it private when you process information until you've come to "the" conclusion, and instead of presenting these conclusions comfortably and dynamically, you mentally build them into complete "products" and seem very uncomfortable sharing your reasoning, (like saying, "Why would I argue about something so obvious", even though it's clear you're not confident at all in your conclusions) preferring to stonewall instead, as the "product" is absolute and not something you can dynamically alter with any deal of comfort.

So Phaedrus has a Ti PoLR now, too? Because he does the same shit (except in a less EP way).

I think you show Ne Role in how you are so obviously uncomfortable with this "new" idea I'm presenting here, like you're not really sure if it can be "trusted," saying it's annoying.

His not being LIE is not a "new" idea. The SEE typing is not a "new" idea, either. (And this isn't even how people typically use their Roles, either.)

You do this with Joy all the time, basically dismissing her based on the "fact" that she's insane and can't be trusted because of how uncomfortable she makes you with all the things she says.

You're suggesting that I make him uncomfortable using Ne?



I don't think his reactions to me should be a basis for typing him (not that that's what you're doing), but if we were going to try to find functional reasons for the problems he has with me, it's quite clear from my perspective that it's a Te/Fi vs. Fe/Ti clash. He "attacks" me the same exact way and criticizes me for the same exact things that other Fe/Ti types here have in the past.

And if you take me out of the equation when trying to determine if he's Fe/Ti or Fi/Te, it's still clear that he values Ti. When he praises someone's logic, it's generally Ti logic (and generally from a Ti type).

[discojoe]

What you said about how he criticizes people for being "cold" is a good point, and the relationship between us could very well be supervision, but I'm still not sure. Maybe I need to better understand the ISFj>ESTp relationship before I can be sure of his Ti abilities.

[FDG]

I'd say that it's somewhat doubtful for an ESTp to prefer gamma-delta mixed company over beta company - something that happens all the time IRL.
However, unfortunately it seems like what a person says about his-her IRL relations and behavior isn't taken into account.
I also find somewhat strage that people can "know" what the other person is "thinking about". How come you think that I perceive your attempt at changing my mind as an attempt at imposing rules? Couldn't it be that I simply perceive it to go against all the evidence I see under my eyes every day, for example?
We can also notice that even if I tend to attack Joy on the same grounds other Ti-Fe types have attacked her in the past, there is no other Te-Fi types with whom I get along as badly as her. So, perhaps it is worth considering our relationship as an outlier and thus leave it out of the analysis.


By the way, at this moment in time, I cannot really feel any pressure on a possible Fi PoLR from discojoe. It seems like most of his arguments aren't based on this, either, so I'd trust his perception more than the perception of an outside observer.

[Joy]

I'd say that it's somewhat doubtful for an ESTp to prefer gamma-delta mixed company over beta company - something that happens all the time IRL.
However, unfortunately it seems like what a person says about his-her IRL relations and behavior isn't taken into account.

We have no way of actually knowing what any of their types are.

So, perhaps it is worth considering our relationship as an outlier and thus leave it out of the analysis.

I agree.

[FDG]

We have no way of actually knowing what any of their types are.

Yes, you have my word, and that should be enough.

[discojoe]

Yes, you have my word, and that should be enough.

Your word is rubbish and should be discarded, you blatant non-ENTj.

[Joy]

Yes, you have my word, and that should be enough.

Okay, phaedrus.

[FDG]

Your word is rubbish and should be discarded, you blatant non-ENTj.

It may be rubbish, but it's definitely more than zero information.

Okay, phaedrus.

Well, given that the alternative is you giving a judgement on a phenomena you've never witnessed...it seems that my rubbish words would still be better.

[discojoe]

It may be rubbish, but it's definitely more than zero information.

Which, by your logic, should be "more than enough".

[FDG]

Which, by your logic, should be "more than enough".

It's definitely better than zero, that's all. Since I don't think you've followed me to watch me interact with other people on a daily basis, then there's really no other option rather than take my word for it on the matter.

[Joy]

Except with Elena, since we've interacted with and observed her.

[Gilly]

Yeah but you haven't observed Fabio interacting with her. Not in any meaningful way, anyways.

[Gilly]

Not that I disagree with SEE, but, well, it would be pretty pointless to argue that your observations of Fabio's behavior are more relevant/meaningful than his own. You could argue his understanding of the theory, but that's kind of a dead end.

[FDG]

Except with Elena, since we've interacted with and observed her.

You've also observed me interacting with her?

[Joy]

If we disagree on her type, then observing (and even agreeing about) your relation with her will lead us to different probable types for you.

[Gilly]

I think this thread needs to be let go before it disintegrates even further.

[Joy]

It certainly isn't going anywhere productive. Did anyone ever think it would though?

[discojoe]

Okay, FDG. Have fun with your pretend type and the rationalization behind it.

[implied]

Me and rationality, uhm, I do tend to plan things out a bit, but irrationals do it too to an extent, I suppose. That's not a strong point at all.
I've never deviated from a given "path" so to speak (ex. in school-career matters), which is usually said to be a characteristic of NJ's. This could be a better point, given that ET is not being questioned I think.
I also don't think I tend to become revved up when the deadline is approaching...I prefer to rationally distribute what I have to do in order to always be tranquil.
And yeah UDP, all of my longest time friends are ISFjs (or ENTjs), one ISTp, not much else. INTps? I've known some, I've known some INTp girls too. Very cool and smart, I've seen them operating and having doubts in relationships though, and I couldn't see how I could give them what I wanted, given that I tend to have similar doubts (typical of thinking types - actually, the fact that I'm a thinking type is something incredibly obvious, much more than the fact that I'm a judging type)

Still, probably all of these are rather weak arguments, given that P-J is a somewhat blurry dichotomy for all types except the creative sensing ones.

just give up now. i doubt you'll ever convince anyone here that you're something other than Se-EP.

[FDG]

just give up now. i doubt you'll ever convince anyone here that you're not something other than Se-EP.

It's very unfortunate that so many people willingly persist in being wrong, but alas, it's not my choice.

(yes, sometimes I purposefully imitate phaedrus)

[Joy]