Enneagram type 4

[Olimpia]

One of the core charecteristics of type 4 is that we try to reach our own idea of a perfect self and we realize how far from this ideal we are, while 1s are unaware of how far they are from their ideals and have narcissistic tendencies. So I don't really agree this is a 1 integration, more like being a 4... Also I'm 4 so/sx and I perfectly relate to everything he says in the song.

What I bolded is the Type 1 point aspiration.
So how are you disagreeing with me exactly?
Type 4s are connected to their Type 1 point in the way that they want to attain some kind of perfect ideal often times.

Btw, Type 1 is said to be the integration/growth point, but it can actually also be negative for a Type 4, depending on the person and circumstances.
For example, I used to be obsessed with being perfect years ago, and it resulted in me becoming low-key OCD and a hardcore perfectionist and self-critic.
I am not really like that anymore for the most part... It was quite a trip.

[maniac]

"try to reach our own idea of a perfect self" sounds more 3.

[huiheiwufhawriuhg]

"try to reach our own idea of a perfect self" sounds more 3.

Try to tell a 3 that they're imperfect and we'll see. Also 3s try to be perfect for those around them according to the ideals of their enviroment, they don't strive to reach an inner ideal of perfection. Most of all 3s are enormous narcissist who would never admit that they have a fault.

[maniac]

Try to tell a 3 that they're imperfect and we'll see. Also 3s try to be perfect for those around them according to the ideals of their enviroment, they don't strive to reach an inner ideal of perfection. Most of all 3s are enormous narcissist who would never admit that they have a fault.

Stop hating on 3s But, true, they try to be what other consider perfect. I just think "striving to be perfect" doesnt sound 4, we just try to be our unique selves and we know we aren't perfect and can never be. We are broken.

[huiheiwufhawriuhg]

Stop hating on 3s But, true, they try to be what other consider perfect. I just think "striving to be perfect" doesnt sound 4, we just try to be our unique selves and we know we aren't perfect and can never be. We are broken.

I don't try to hate on 3s, I was stating the facts I've read and noticed about them, I have no issues with 3s and some of them are my good friends. I myself have a very strong 3 wing so I can perfectly relate to what it feels like to be a 3.

[Aylen]

Guys, a healthy 4 realizes that they are not broken.

Generally, Fours are intuitive, sensitive, impressionable, quiet, introspective, passionate, romantic, elegant, witty, imaginative, and self-expressive.
Fours get into conflicts by being moody, emotionally demanding, self-absorbed, withholding, temperamental, dramatic, pretentious, and self-indulgent.
At their best, Fours are creative, inspired, honest with themselves, emotionally strong, humane, self-aware, discrete, and self-renewing.



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<3

[maniac]

Yes, but who the fuck is healthy. I realize I have good sides but I can't break free from self-pity and feeling inadequate sometimes.

[Aylen]

Yes, but who the fuck is healthy. I realize I have good sides but I can't break free from self-pity and feeling inadequate sometimes.

I have my healthy moments. They inspire me. I wasn't going to do this but...

[Chae]

@Fay
Faults: Us 3s can capitalize on them, nobody likes a picture perfect person. If flaw xyz makes us admirable, then why not use it. Especially 4 wings add some of that to their image. What the 3 sees as their ideal is to never display shortcomings. Our belief is that a certain action validates us externally. So, not measuring up to that is the worst Narcissism: in the average to unhealthy range, hell yes.

[Singu]

Stop hating on 3s But, true, they try to be what other consider perfect. I just think "striving to be perfect" doesnt sound 4, we just try to be our unique selves and we know we aren't perfect and can never be. We are broken.

Well I guess to be a healthy 4, we'd have to be honest with our flaws and show them and "be ourselves" with our flaws and imperfections.

[silke]

[silke]

anything by Tim Burton (4w3 sp/sx)

[huiheiwufhawriuhg]

A gift for a Type 4.

Tate and Violet were the perfect 4 couple.

[huiheiwufhawriuhg]

Yes, but who the fuck is healthy. I realize I have good sides but I can't break free from self-pity and feeling inadequate sometimes.

Being healthy sucks, being normal is boring af.

[maniac]

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[lynn]

4w3

[maniac]

4w3

That's 3. 4s focus on their own authentic identity whether it's well liked by others or not.. 3s built their identity around what other people think is attractive/popular/liked.

[lynn]

That's 3. 4s focus on their own authentic identity whether it's well liked by others or not.. 3s built their identity around what other people think is attractive/popular/liked.

hm.. okay. i see. e4s with heavy 3 wing appear like this to me sometimes, though.

[maniac]

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[Olimpia]

[Olimpia]

Social Type 4
(The angry, hormonal, supernatural teenager version )

[Chae]

I think that one of the most beautiful things about E4 is that they can really make you feel it. A 4's sentiment comes from such a genuine and deep place, it's a gift.

[Olimpia]

4w3 Sp/Sx Aesthetic...

[Olimpia]

anything by Tim Burton (4w3 sp/sx)

Yes, anything by Tim Burton is Type 4, however this video is 4w5 imo, and I'd type him as such as well.
It has got morbid/dark elements, which are a typical fixation for average to unhealthy 4w5s (I'd argue that most "Goths" are 4w5 for example), as well as an interest in the scientific or theoretical, and imaginary worlds. Those aspects do not apply to 4w3, for the most part.

[Olimpia]

4w3 (gay ESI) guys, parody-version.

[Chae]

[maniac]

Attachment 9949

[maniac]

4w3 subwings (and a little about 5 wing)

(for those of you that dont know, subwings are an extension of the core type and explains differences in two of the same type and wing. 4w3 can have either 3w2 or 5w4 subwing.)

3w2: popularity - because they have stronger 3 influence so they can better form themselves to fit the liking of the masses, whether they know this consciously or not, more comfortable with self, more "look at me!" (less if theyre 9fixed, more if 8fixed), more attention-seeking, more pride in their uniqueness, more family-oriented, more charismatic and more outwardly loving, the more child-like subwing, more optimistic and naivety
5w4: more morose, more dislike about their weirdness, alien thoughts, anti parents/family, broken universe, less liked, more adult-like subwing, pessimistic, more unintentionally stand-offish, more death

the difference between 4w5 and 4w3 with 5w4 subwing is that 4w5 is not openly competitive or have a subconscious need to be liked and to have their uniqueness viewed as something attractive. 5w4 subwing also want attention but not comfortable with it or actively seeking it in the same degree as 3w2 subwing. 3w2 is more about attention within bigger groups of people.
5w4 subwing can be super needy and attention needing in relationships etc.

3 wing is more about winning.

and, 4w3 needs/wants more constant verbal reaffirmation and praise, especially in relationships.

[maniac]

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[Aylen]

Fours - Fine Distinctions


Four With a 3 Wing

Fours with a 3 wing can sometimes seem like Sevens. May be outgoing, have a sense of humor and style. Prize being both creative and effective in the world. Both intuitive and ambitious; may have good imaginations, often talented. Some are colorful, fancy dressers, make a distinct impression. Self-knowledge combines well with social and organizational skills.

When more entranced, often have a public/private split. Could conceal feelings in public then go home to loneliness. Or they could enjoy their work and be dissatisfied in love. Tendency towards melodrama and flamboyance; true feelings can often be hidden. Competitive, sneaky, aware of how they look. Some have bad taste. May be fickle in love, drawn to romantic images that they have projected onto others. Could have a dull spouse, then fantasize about glamorous strangers. Achievements can be tainted by jealousy, revenge, or a desire to prove the crowd wrong.

Real-Life Fours With a 3 Wing: John Barrymore, Kate Bush, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Judy Collins, Neil Diamond, Judy Garland, Martha Graham, Billie Holliday, Julio Iglesias, Janis Joplin, Naomi Judd, Jessica Lange, John Malkovich, Mary McCarthy, Rod McKuen, Anaïs Nin, Nick Nolte, Laurence Olivier, Edith Piaf, Anne Rice, Liv Ullmann, Robert James Waller, Tennessee Williams.

Movie Fours With a 3 Wing: F. Murray Abraham, Amadeus; Anne Bancroft, The Turning Point; John Barrymore, Dinner At Eight; Judy Davis, Impromptu; Jill Ireland, From Noon Til Three; Vivien Leigh, A Streetcar Named Desire; Winona Ryder, Mermaids.

Four With a 5 Wing

Healthy side of this wing brings a withdrawn, complex creativity. May be somewhat intellectual but have exceptional depth of feeling and insight. Very much their own person; original and idiosyncratic. Have a spiritual and aesthetic openness. Will find multiple levels of meaning to most events. May have a strong need and ability to pour themselves into artistic creations. Loners; can seem enigmatic and hard to read. Externally reserved and internally resonant. When they open up it can be sudden and total.

When entranced or defensive, Fours with a 5 wing can easily feel alienated and depressed. Many have a sense of not belonging, of being from another planet. Can get lost in their own process, drown in their own ocean. Whiny - tend to ruminate and relive past experience. Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death.

Real-Life Fours With a 5 Wing: Diane Arbus, Marlon Brando, Richard Brautigan, Jackson Browne, Kurt Cobain, Leonard Cohen, Isak Dinesen, Pink Floyd, Harvey Keitel, Philip Larkin, Thomas Merton, Sylvia Plath, Edgar Allen Poe, Arthur Rimbaud, Anne Sexton, James Taylor, Vincent van Gogh, Virginia Woolf, Neil Young.

Movie Fours With a 5 Wing: David Andrews, Cherry 2000; Albert Finney, The Playboys; Claude Rains, The Phantom Of The Opera; Winona Ryder, Beetlejuice; Campbell Scott, Dying Young; Meryl Streep, The French Lieutenant's Woman, Out Of Africa, Plenty.

CONNECTING POINTS (Stress and Security)

Four's Connection to 2

Healthy connection brings interpersonal skills and the ability to voluntarily empathize with others. Can make good psychotherapists, teachers, ministers, parents. Teach others about the realms of subjectivity. Twoish capacity to identify with an audience. Good communicators, fine therapeutic skills. Can listen and accept, especially willing to understand the pain of friends. Less selfish. Will harbor and act upon ideals of service to others.

Low side brings dependency. Tendency to fixate on a loved one. Whiny demandingness and blame. Codependent melodrama when the real person behaves differently than the Four expects them to. Think they can't live without the other. Twoish capacity to empathize becomes compulsive. Four can't help but identify, especially with others' pain. Takes "beloved" person inside of their subjectivity, making that person their salvation. They may flee themselves by serving others. Prideful sense of specialness is also intensified. Hysterical illness possible.

Movie Fours who demonstrate this connection: Harriet Andersson, Cries And Whispers; David Andrews, Cherry 2000; Vivien Leigh, A Streetcar Named Desire; Nick Nolte, New York Stories; Claude Rains, The Phantom Of The Opera.

Four's Connection to 1

Healthy connection to 1 brings objectivity, balance and idealism. Helps Fours locate the objective world and connect to a factual reality that is independent of their inner feelings. Like finding dry land in a sea of subjectivity. Discipline of cleaving to the real world diminishes self-indulgence and melodrama. Practical problem-solving skills enhanced. Intense feelings smooth out, a kind of balanced equanimity takes hold. Will also be idealistic and willing to work hard out in the world for what they believe in. Become contributors instead of complainers.

The low side of this connection is that a Four can become faultfinding and nit-picky. Dissatisfied perfectionism may color their relationships. Get creatively blocked because nothing they produce is up to their own high standards. Induce shame in themselves with inner criticism. May tear down others out of jealousy. Sometimes latch onto a grandiose, obsessive Big Idea. Belief they are attuned to Absolute Truth. Idealistic and artistic pretentiousness possible. Sometimes can be rageful.

Movie Fours who demonstrate this connection: Anne Bancroft, The Turning Point; Nicolas Cage, Moonstruck; Judy Davis, Impromptu; Maria de Medieros, Henry And June; Winona Ryder, Mermaids; Campbell Scott, Dying Young; Meryl Streep, Out Of Africa, Plenty.


SUBTYPE THEMES

Self-Preservation

People with this theme are often advocates of risk. Can be reckless, court disaster or just flirt lightly with loss. Take chances to stir up emotional intensity, play out melodrama or to get attention. Can have a desire to punish other through hurting themselves. The logic is, "If I die then they'll be sorry and finally appreciate me."

Can seem like counterphobic Sixes in their behavior. With a 3 wing this subtype is more flamboyant and makes a show of their daring. With a 5 wing they grow more sullen and self-punishing.

Movie examples include: Nicolas Cage, Moonstruck; Meryl Streep, Out Of Africa; Judy Davis, Impromptu.

Intimate

Fours with this theme tend to be highly competitive in close relationships but also more generally. With a mate they are prone to jealousy. Want to be the most important person in mate's life. Could be jealous of a partner's past relationships, maybe want to be the only person the partner has ever loved. Related to the dependent side of 2.

More broadly can be consumed by professional envy. Long to best others in their work. Can jealously measure their contributions. Petty about keeping score. Want recognition for their uniqueness. Take away from successes of others when threatened. See F. Murray Abraham in Amadeus, Harriet Andersson in Cries And Whispers, Nick Nolte in New York Stories.

Social

Prone to shame because they compare themselves with the "normal" world around them. Can be highly self-critical and feel ashamed for their deviance from imagined group norms. Sensitive to criticism. May romanticize their defects but feel bad about themselves anyway.

If they have a 3 wing, may cover their shame with charm. Can also seek status or be driven to achieve to get revenge against those who once laughed at them (Danny DeVito, Batman Returns). With a 5 wing, can grow antisocial and depressed, bearing their shame in solitude (Meryl Streep in The French Lieutenant's Woman).

-- Condon's wings and subtypes, including 4w3 and 4w5

[maniac]

Attachment 9954

[Chae]

[Chae]

[Chae]

[Aylen]

[Olimpia]

4w5

[Olimpia]

Satine in Moulin Rouge is a good example of a 4w3 (Sp/Sx, ESI).

[maniac]

[mclane]

4w3 subwings (and a little about 5 wing)

(for those of you that dont know, subwings are an extension of the core type and explains differences in two of the same type and wing. 4w3 can have either 3w2 or 5w4 subwing.)

3w2: popularity - because they have stronger 3 influence so they can better form themselves to fit the liking of the masses, whether they know this consciously or not, more comfortable with self, more "look at me!" (less if theyre 9fixed, more if 8fixed), more attention-seeking, more pride in their uniqueness, more family-oriented, more charismatic and more outwardly loving, the more child-like subwing, more optimistic and naivety
5w4: more morose, more dislike about their weirdness, alien thoughts, anti parents/family, broken universe, less liked, more adult-like subwing, pessimistic, more unintentionally stand-offish, more death

the difference between 4w5 and 4w3 with 5w4 subwing is that 4w5 is not openly competitive or have a subconscious need to be liked and to have their uniqueness viewed as something attractive. 5w4 subwing also want attention but not comfortable with it or actively seeking it in the same degree as 3w2 subwing. 3w2 is more about attention within bigger groups of people.
5w4 subwing can be super needy and attention needing in relationships etc.

3 wing is more about winning.

and, 4w3 needs/wants more constant verbal reaffirmation and praise, especially in relationships.

Where did you find this description?

[maniac]

Where did you find this description?

Made it myself with my observations and some tiny help from a friend. I got into subwings because most 4w3s are 3w2 subwing and I felt different from them, but I'm not a 4w5 because of obvious reasons like I dont care much about outer power such as society and Im not as granular, I'm more me-focused than a 4w5.