How would an Si base hit EIE/LIE Si PoLR?

[Chae]

Yeah, I think that's how it should be. External aesthetics (appearance) is Se, whereas Si is internal aesthetics as in how it feels to experience something. I think things like color combinations and taste combinations may be more Se as well. I don't notice subtleties of taste or imagine what tastes might go well together, I don't think I'd be good at that. Instead my cooking successes have come from being willing to try interesting dishes that have potential, are easy to make and will taste good for what it is rather than how well it's prepared. Like poke, for instance. It's literally just rice, raw tuna, and avocado or seaweed, with some rice vinegar. If you make it, it will taste good because poke tastes good. I think Si perceives things in terms of the whole experience, whereas Se focuses more on the details. The whole experience of poke is that it tastes good. An Se approach to preparing poke might focus on the details of preparation and external aesthetics, arranging the ingredients so it looks nice and fancy, adding a variety of ingredients like cucumber, carrot, peppers, etc., and making the preparation look quick and skillful. Me on the other hand, I notice my fatigue when cooking so I prefer to keep things simple and easy such as using few ingredients so there's less preparation involved and I can conserve my energy. I'd rather go out to eat because I find that more pleasant than cooking.



I don't think he has reasoning, he is just anger-prone and externalizes.

Yes. There's a big difference between what looks good and makes a visible impression/impact () - color combinations included - and what feels good and soothes someone on a personal level (). I don't think an SLI - Spartan Life Instructor is how I name them - would bother doing all this color experimenting, I mean what's the use? Their PoLR will disregard how they satisfy others on an emotional level while their creative is just too busy narrowing everything down. Do you have one rationalized process for dressing that you came up with? Maybe it's not one because the weather changes but SLI logics really don't consider "fun" redundancies. I'd expect a categorical system behind it, too. Perfect Delta function rundown: Interesting dishes with potential, efficiency, satisfaction - . I think details might not be the right word but I see what you meant. The relaxed takes it all in and adjusts for well-being, the aesthetic effect happens on the tongue. would really go on a tangent to make the food presentable - the aesthetic is for the eye. You notice your fatigue, I found it cute how you put that. There it goes, simple and easy . Energy conservation is typical of the ISTp, so is pleasure-seeking to eliminate disturbances. Could really be your type actually, the guess is good. At least I have to say, your profile picture speaks of tranquility already. The clock of the Socion describes SLI as the state where everything is finally at peaceful rest and without excess, that appeared fitting.

If he's anger-prone he has. People who are furious the way you described feel controlled, lashing out to regain influence. I guess he sees himself as the potential sick person in another (yep. externalizing right there) and wants to reject this so much, he ends up with an outburst as his outwardly projected self is out of control. The person he actually resents is himself. He's probably LIE, "illness prevents achievement and productivity". The object deterioration sounded like he had some economic-minded attachment to whatever was going on.

[Stellafera]

Yes. There's a big difference between what looks good and makes a visible impression/impact () - color combinations included - and what feels good and soothes someone on a personal level ().

Yeah, I love creating outfits and am pretty damn good at it. On the other hand, I'm not as good with how to "properly" take care of clothes and... that sort of intrinsic feeling for how to wear clothes and what effects clothes have on me, as a person, wearing them. Is this fabric breathable? IDK, check the label? Feel like that would go double for Si PoLR + Se HA. Like a girl who wears skirts all the time but sits like she's wearing pants. She's got an image in her head and the outfit WOULD look good but it's looking sloppy because she doesn't know what she's doing wearing it.

[Myst]

I don't know about EIE/LIE, but there are some people I feel are always doing things the hard way by getting super upset about every little setback and being too attached to outcomes. Will get visibly frustrated and angry if things aren't going the way they want them to, and make everyone around them upset. One of the people I have in mind also tends to be too harsh, lacks gentleness or sensitivity, and when someone is sick he often gets angry and blames them for it. He also reacts that way to physical deterioration of objects even when it's clear that it's just normal wear and tear and not anyone's fault.

I knew an EIE once but I don't really have any Si criticism of her. She was just kind of loud and pretty much my opposite, we had nothing in common and didn't get along well.

The people you described in detail here, until you got to the point "someone is sick he often gets angry and blames them for it. He also reacts that way to physical deterioration of objects even when it's clear that it's just normal wear and tear and not anyone's fault", I could've seen them as LSI but that last part can be low Si. Taking this part into account, xIE (seen from an SLI pov) is possible.

At least I have to say, your profile picture speaks of tranquility already.

The funny thing is, I don't see that sort of picture as tranquil at all. I must be getting very different information "aspects" from it. Interesting note, I've seen several SLIs put up that sort of quite colourful and aesthetic profile picture (incl. on PerC forums).

[Computer Loser]

When I went on trips with an SLI friend, he often liked to venture off and do his own thing. For example, while me and my friends would be content staying with the group and doing our planned activities, my SLI friend instead did stuff that was pleasing to him, randomly walking off elsewhere, or showing clear distaste when we did something he didn't want to do. (Whereas for me I'd just suck it up for the group's sake). He told me that he likes to cover new ground, explore new territories, discover places he's never been to; he says this stimulates his senses (Si). Otherwise he gets bored real easily.

Now imagine if an EIE were in this trip with us.

You could see how this might clash with an EIE, who focuses on the group (Fe) versus an SLI focusing on his individual needs (Si).

The SLI would feel like the EIE is restricting the SLI.
The EIE would feel like the SLI doesn't care about the group/is selfish

[isptn]

The people you described in detail here, until you got to the point "someone is sick he often gets angry and blames them for it. He also reacts that way to physical deterioration of objects even when it's clear that it's just normal wear and tear and not anyone's fault", I could've seen them as LSI but that last part can be low Si. Taking this part into account, xIE (seen from an SLI pov) is possible.

I had typed him as LSI actually, since he seems to speak confidently about appearance, clothing, and color combinations. But I could also see him as LIE. I don't know the two types well enough to make that distinction.

[Myst]

I had typed him as LSI actually, since he seems to speak confidently about appearance, clothing, and color combinations. But I could also see him as LIE. I don't know the two types well enough to make that distinction.

OK keep him at LSI then, assuming that last part is your conscious Si base pov (LSI does neglect it a bit compared to Si base).

[Chae]

When I went on trips with an SLI friend, he often liked to venture off and do his own thing. For example, while me and my friends would be content staying with the group and doing our planned activities, my SLI friend instead did stuff that was pleasing to him, randomly walking off elsewhere, or showing clear distaste when we did something he didn't want to do. (Whereas for me I'd just suck it up for the group's sake). He told me that he likes to cover new ground, explore new territories, discover places he's never been to; he says this stimulates his senses (Si). Otherwise he gets bored real easily.

Now imagine if an EIE were in this trip with us.

You could see how this might clash with an EIE, who focuses on the group (Fe) versus an SLI focusing on his individual needs (Si).

The SLI would feel like the EIE is restricting the SLI.
The EIE would feel like the SLI doesn't care about the group/is selfish

This is an excellent example. The hypothetical EIE would get really annoyed not only by the SLI's base function but also their -seeking (new territories, discovery, going against boredom) and mobilizing (showing individual distaste). The EIE, while being aware of this discovery ( demonstrative), would still rather emphasise the collective () purpose () of the trip, the schedule, the one path to follow, and so on. I bet the EIE would start drama in response to SLI's ventures among the group. So they're both selfish in a way, the EIE not permitting the freedom (,) that SLI needs, but the latter doesn't care so that's why this is an interpersonal dilemma as is the nature of conflict relations.

[dot]

This is an excellent example. The hypothetical EIE would get really annoyed not only by the SLI's base function but also their -seeking (new territories, discovery, going against boredom) and mobilizing (showing individual distaste). The EIE, while being aware of this discovery ( demonstrative), would still rather emphasise the collective () purpose () of the trip, the schedule, the one path to follow, and so on. I bet the EIE would start drama in response to SLI's ventures among the group. So they're both selfish in a way, the EIE not permitting the freedom (,) that SLI needs, but the latter doesn't care so that's why this is an interpersonal dilemma as is the nature of conflict relations.

I agree with Fe-doms feeling very demanding when it comes to doing stuff together or being part of the group.. like they might not say anything but you can feel their dissatisfaction and that already stresses me out lol.

[Chae]

I agree with Fe-doms feeling very demanding when it comes to doing stuff together or being part of the group.. like they might not say anything but you can feel their dissatisfaction and that already stresses me out lol.

Good point - yes, that's the power of base. You already know what their sentiment is without words, they transfer it so acutely. I think stressing you out is either an intended or unintended effect to achieve that very group cohesion they want, it's quite compelling through mere emotion. That's something an unfazed SLI is blind to, and it reflects the stress right back to the EIE.

[squark]

You could see how this might clash with an EIE

Only if you're confusing Fe lead for a herding dog. There's nothing inherent in Fe that demands people stay together in a group.

[Chae]

Only if you're confusing Fe lead for a herding dog. There's nothing inherent in Fe that demands people stay together in a group.

I think they bring people together in the beginning, staying together - idk at least it's desired of course, especially when would like them to have this or that activity in a certain time frame, or in a certain manner they imagined it to be like.

[neproblems]

^^^
I guess it could be seen in terms of temperament?

As EJ is about control. People are easier to manage in a group.

FE wants to control the group atmosphere

TE wants to control the way the group work together

[Chae]

^^^
I guess it could be seen in terms of temperament?

As EJ is about control. People are easier to manage in a group.

FE wants to control the group atmosphere

TE wants to control the way the group work together

Yes, that's a good take on it. Contrast Ip for the SLI or SEI.
Control might be a more thing as in actually allocating the people but the XIE will attempt at that with maybe a weak effect through their mobilizing. If someone else joins in with the "we must manage the group!", this attitude will increase, that's why influencing the atmosphere is so important in the first place to get this volitional support.

[Chae]

In that sense, ESE might be a tad more talented at it, Ej temperament and - at full strength. They could keep SLI in the group through supervision unlike EIE who would struggle to actually retrieve the stray SLI

[neproblems]

Yes, that's a good take on it. Contrast Ip for the SLI or SEI.
Control might be a more thing as in actually allocating the people but the XIE will attempt at that with maybe a weak effect through their mobilizing. If someone else joins in with the "we must manage the group!", this attitude will increase, that's why influencing the atmosphere is so important in the first place to get this volitional support.

Yeah, I/we all have to careful with wording, because things can easily be mixed up...

I don't wanna divert the thread, but going by temperament EJ wants to control what is happening, to keep it in line with what they want/ think is right

EPs get bored of things staying the same, so may 'take control' by coming up with ideas (NE) or something physical? (SE)

IP sits there and observes what is actually happening (SI) or what might happen (NI)

IJ gets mad when things get out of control orderwise (TI) or ethically (FI) and then sorts out 'the mess'

*This is my rough guess*

[Myst]

Only if you're confusing Fe lead for a herding dog. There's nothing inherent in Fe that demands people stay together in a group.

Beta Fe:

"Betas attempt to draw others into the group activity: for example, in a situation where there are "group rituals" going on (as in drinking, dancing, etc), there is good-natured pressure on "outsiders" to also participate in them, with a sort of puzzled dismay if they prefer not to.

When larger social events are organized by Betas (such as parties, receptions etc), they show an inclination to promote activities that will lead to the guests involved as a single group, such as games and shows; dislike for the "quieter" form of events where guests tend to quietly form smaller groups in more intimate atmospheres, which Betas tend to see as boring."

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...le=Beta_Quadra

[Computer Loser]

Only if you're confusing Fe lead for a herding dog. There's nothing inherent in Fe that demands people stay together in a group.

Blah blah blah, just admit my post was awesome.

[Chae]

Yeah, I/we all have to careful with wording, because things can easily be mixed up...

I don't wanna divert the thread, but going by temperament EJ wants to control what is happening, to keep it in line with what they want/ think is right

EPs get bored of things staying the same, so may 'take control' by coming up with ideas (NE) or something physical? (SE)

IP sits there and observes what is actually happening (SI) or what might happen (NI)

IJ gets mad when things get out of control orderwise (TI) or ethically (FI) and then sorts out 'the mess'

*This is my rough guess*

That's why we discuss though, to get to the bottom of things, it's alright. ~<3

Yes, Ej is being compelled to correct occasions (processes - , emotive states - ) toward one's vision, especially for the intuitives EIE/LIE

Ep is more of a discovery or conquest, engaging in external guidance is erratic, expansive. It's more of an impulse giving, does this more than which carries through more rather than starts things.

The other two were already good ideas! Ip and Ij regulate things for themselves there. Like in @peteronfireee's example, the SLI would just see what they could do to feel good on their own.

[The Reality Denialist]

Beta Fe is for social cohesion.
Alpha Fe is concerned to make everyone included.
For example: One SEI was very pissed at gamma NT teacher being too dictating which lead to indirect protest.

[Hope]

I like EIEs, specially some EIEs girls; they look over confident, strong and funny, some of them have loud funny laughters. According to their words, they like me too and they want to befriend me.
But for some reason, they have a tendency to "read to much" into my actions (or lack of action in my case, lol), and make wrong assumptions and think I dislike them or judge them, when thats not the case. One girl said that she likes me but that I must hate her because she's too vulgar for me. Which is totally untrue. She believe that because I didn't hang out with her on a couple of occasions (because I rarely hang out).


When I was a teen, two EIE kids on my class used to laugh at some of my reactions or get exasperated by my lack of emotion. The male kid even used to call me dead. He was always like…"wassup dead?" I never felt offended, btw.


One day, I was hanging out with my ILE friend, and we met a small group of kids. There was this young EIE girl among them. Like 20 minutes later, the girl grabbed me and shook me by the shoulders, yelling: what's wrong with you?! Do something!!


I wasn't doing or saying anything, and my lack of emotion or expression was probably the reason of her frustration.


I felt suddenly annoyed and somehow ashamed so I just looked at her and replied: Let go of me.


Her frustration was all over her face.
She didn't spoke to me again during the whole night.
She was a cool good looking girl. Black leather jacket, brown skin, short dark hair.

[Chae]

do you think an EIE can influence an SLI? SLIs seem to ignore me

Did you mean ESE instead of EIE in the first sentence or is it a separate question? So they ignore you then, that is a consequence of influence. The behaviour is quite interesting, such avoidance is a thing I suppose, unless you count in SLI's creative which deems any (inter-)action useless at that point.

[Cosmic Teapot]

@sorrows see @Slugabed 's post above your post

[Samson]

Asking EIEs if they feel cold, hungry etc. etc.
Saying you prefer something because it is "natural looking" or "natural". Talking at length about diet, health, organic stuff.

Holy shit, you just described my personal hell lol. (How pathetic does that sound?? xD )

I rarely realize when I am hungry, unless I'm about to pass out -- and even then I might not make the connection. Hunger takes me by surprise almost every single day.. I never see it coming, which is ironic for me, since I'm THE PERSON to see things 'coming'..
It's my LSI wife who has to poke me and ask me what I want to eat, taking it for fact that clearly I'm starving. This is often met by me getting super grumpy over needing to discuss this AT ALL. Often she just brings me a snack without mentioning it as she doesn't care about the topic of food either - she just deals with it no problem. Very admirable.



That's me right there.


I'd wear this light second hand biker jacket, meant for the summer, to school (looked really hot if I say so myself ) all year round, for years on end. Snowing and freezing? I'd bitch and moan that it's so goddamn cold, to which people would roll their eyes and remind me that "maaaaaybe it's the summer jacket you're wearing, might think of getting a thicker coat next time??"
Thing is, I always HAD a winter coat to wear, I just didn't. It didn't look "cool" enough, and I'd forget about the cold as soon as I got inside anyway. If I'm not cold now, what's the problem??? Genius, I know.

***

As for Si base people hitting my PoLR.. I live with one.. Brother-in-law. This is not a permanent situation. It can't be.
He's an SLI, one who talks about his adventures in the bathroom during dinner (seriously...diarrhea in HD 3D full definition, no need for cable... WHILST EATING - which is already a bore). WTF. Not as a joke either, he's dead serious!!! It's THE type of thinking that he occupies himself with. What in the living hell...
He starts talking about his (dis)comfort with whatever (I never remember what he says), no matter what else is going on. He starts whining about how his favorite baseball team lost a game when I am in the middle of talking about the implications of my mental health with someone. He's a fucking trip, I tell ya. He has absolutely ZERO feel for context and timing. Or general decency. The times I wanted to bash his brains in are too numerous to count. (Though this has lessened ever since he got together with his ESE.. just don't ask me how they do it.)

He says he often feels an "angry tension" coming from me when he addresses an 'annoyance' about how my wife (his sister) and I aren't using the shared kitchen 'properly.' No shit Sherlock. I'm holding back all the frustration I have accumulated over the numerous instances where he acts like a dickhole. And his gripe is that the counter is sticky????? FFFFFFFFFFfucking a..
Also, him fucking with the A/C, making his sister wear a sweater inside IN THE SUMMER. My wife tells me she just "did what she had to do" because the living situation is complex with other family related stuff (she doesn't feel comfortable dealing with Fe shit, feels she can't win). So she just went with it. Do what you gotta do. Wore sweaters in the summer because he turns the A/C setting to fucking Antarctica. He says it's because "he gets hot flashes." LOL I don't care, no one has to wear a sweater in the summer. Shit ain't happening on my watch. Even having to think about this bullshit ever puts me on edge (fucking with the A/C is not how I like to spend my time..), let alone his unreasonable and selfish bullshit.
I'm happy to say that after some discussions and some passive aggressive nonsense we have come to a somewhat stable agreement. I'm so damn proud that I didn't hit him!
Still, we gotta move...

[Myst]

Holy shit, you just described my personal hell lol. (How pathetic does that sound?? xD )

I rarely realize when I am hungry, unless I'm about to pass out -- and even then I might not make the connection. Hunger takes me by surprise almost every single day.. I never see it coming, which is ironic for me, since I'm THE PERSON to see things 'coming'..
It's my LSI wife who has to poke me and ask me what I want to eat, taking it for fact that clearly I'm starving. This is often met by me getting super grumpy over needing to discuss this AT ALL.

Often she just brings me a snack without mentioning it as she doesn't care about the topic of food either - she just deals with it no problem. Very admirable.

This doesn't really need 4D Si not everything is type related

(...) I'm happy to say that after some discussions and some passive aggressive nonsense we have come to a somewhat stable agreement. I'm so damn proud that I didn't hit him!
Still, we gotta move...

Seems like Se DS rant to me. (Pretty IEIish anyway.)

Glad you got the agreement in any case.

[isptn]

I'd wear this light second hand biker jacket, meant for the summer, to school (looked really hot if I say so myself ) all year round, for years on end. Snowing and freezing? I'd bitch and moan that it's so goddamn cold, to which people would roll their eyes and remind me that "maaaaaybe it's the summer jacket you're wearing, might think of getting a thicker coat next time??"
Thing is, I always HAD a winter coat to wear, I just didn't. It didn't look "cool" enough, and I'd forget about the cold as soon as I got inside anyway. If I'm not cold now, what's the problem??? Genius, I know.

When I was a kid I used to get scolded by my parents for not dressing warm enough. I wanted to look normal because no one else was wearing heavy coats. They didn't care what everyone else was doing, they said if it's cold I need to wear a coat. But my parents are both Se and I'm SLI. Had I been in the situation you described, I would have no problem with you complaining about being cold and probably wouldn't even mention a coat. Can't say about other SLIs though, as I'm not sure what's typical.

As for Si base people hitting my PoLR.. I live with one.. Brother-in-law. This is not a permanent situation. It can't be.
He's an SLI, one who talks about his adventures in the bathroom during dinner (seriously...diarrhea in HD 3D full definition, no need for cable... WHILST EATING - which is already a bore). WTF. Not as a joke either, he's dead serious!!! It's THE type of thinking that he occupies himself with. What in the living hell...
He starts talking about his (dis)comfort with whatever (I never remember what he says), no matter what else is going on. He starts whining about how his favorite baseball team lost a game when I am in the middle of talking about the implications of my mental health with someone. He's a fucking trip, I tell ya. He has absolutely ZERO feel for context and timing. Or general decency. The times I wanted to bash his brains in are too numerous to count. (Though this has lessened ever since he got together with his ESE.. just don't ask me how they do it.)

He says he often feels an "angry tension" coming from me when he addresses an 'annoyance' about how my wife (his sister) and I aren't using the shared kitchen 'properly.' No shit Sherlock. I'm holding back all the frustration I have accumulated over the numerous instances where he acts like a dickhole. And his gripe is that the counter is sticky????? FFFFFFFFFFfucking a..
Also, him fucking with the A/C, making his sister wear a sweater inside IN THE SUMMER. My wife tells me she just "did what she had to do" because the living situation is complex with other family related stuff (she doesn't feel comfortable dealing with Fe shit, feels she can't win). So she just went with it. Do what you gotta do. Wore sweaters in the summer because he turns the A/C setting to fucking Antarctica. He says it's because "he gets hot flashes." LOL I don't care, no one has to wear a sweater in the summer. Shit ain't happening on my watch. Even having to think about this bullshit ever puts me on edge (fucking with the A/C is not how I like to spend my time..), let alone his unreasonable and selfish bullshit.
I'm happy to say that after some discussions and some passive aggressive nonsense we have come to a somewhat stable agreement. I'm so damn proud that I didn't hit him!
Still, we gotta move...

I hope that's not what SLI is supposed to be like. He just sounds like an unpleasant person, may not be type related. Talking about bathroom adventures sounds like he was trying to make people uncomfortable. The proper use of kitchen thing sounds more rational, LSE or LSI maybe. I've probably never scolded people in that way in my life, Ip temperament is pretty flexible and tolerant. For that reason I don't think Si base types are likely to PoLR hit by telling people what to do or criticizing for doing things wrong.

[Samson]

This doesn't really need 4D Si not everything is type related

Never claimed otherwise

Seems like Se DS rant to me. (Pretty IEIish anyway.)

Glad you got the agreement in any case.

How come?

[Samson]

When I was a kid I used to get scolded by my parents for not dressing warm enough. I wanted to look normal because no one else was wearing heavy coats. They didn't care what everyone else was doing, they said if it's cold I need to wear a coat. But my parents are both Se and I'm SLI. Had I been in the situation you described, I would have no problem with you complaining about being cold and probably wouldn't even mention a coat. Can't say about other SLIs though, as I'm not sure what's typical.

Wanting to look normal is exactly what my SLI brother-in-law is constantly seeking to do. He wore flashy punk-spikes in high school, because that was considered normal then. Now not so much anymore, and he is embarrassed over that even xD

I hope that's not what SLI is supposed to be like. He just sounds like an unpleasant person, may not be type related. Talking about bathroom adventures sounds like he was trying to make people uncomfortable. The proper use of kitchen thing sounds more rational, LSE or LSI maybe. I've probably never scolded people in that way in my life, Ip temperament is pretty flexible and tolerant. For that reason I don't think Si base types are likely to PoLR hit by telling people what to do or criticizing for doing things wrong.

He's not the SLI to base yourself on for sure, he's OCD and a whole other list of these type of thingies, making his type come out in the strangest ways. His bathroom talk is very serious to him, so that's what he'll talk about, regardless of social etiquette. The most painful Fe-PoLR ever!

And he doesn't scold anyone ever, he's too sensitive to upset anyone. It's only after much coaxing and years of being told to not hold anything back that he actually tells us what's bothering him. It just seems so pointless to me.
Also, 'proper use' is me rephrasing what he said. Like I mentioned, I don't actually remember what he says. But I bet it had something to do with how he finds the "experience" of a sticky counter so terrible. He's also one to use plastic gloves to touch raw chicken when he's cooking. He's all about not messing with his inner state of 'sensation.'

[wacey]

Wanting to look normal is exactly what my SLI brother-in-law is constantly seeking to do. He wore flashy punk-spikes in high school, because that was considered normal then. Now not so much anymore, and he is embarrassed over that even xD


He's not the SLI to base yourself on for sure, he's OCD and a whole other list of these type of thingies, making his type come out in the strangest ways. His bathroom talk is very serious to him, so that's what he'll talk about, regardless of social etiquette. The most painful Fe-PoLR ever!

And he doesn't scold anyone ever, he's too sensitive to upset anyone. It's only after much coaxing and years of being told to not hold anything back that he actually tells us what's bothering him. It just seems so pointless to me.
Also, 'proper use' is me rephrasing what he said. Like I mentioned, I don't actually remember what he says. But I bet it had something to do with how he finds the "experience" of a sticky counter so terrible. He's also one to use plastic gloves to touch raw chicken when he's cooking. He's all about not messing with his inner state of 'sensation.'

From how you describe him he doesn't sound like the typical SLI, except the holding things to himself bit. I know many SLI who have no problem with getting dirty, so it might just be a "him" thing. ..?

[Volcana]

@isptn @wacey
The person @Samson is talking about goes out of his way to avoid upsetting anyone, to keep things pleasant, to keep things comfortable and happy. Samson is talking about underlying, lingering tensions he perceives between them rather than actual confrontations. It's a difference in priorities.
Most people consider this person kind, pleasant, thoughtful, careful.

Based on the minimal information Samson provided (which consisted mostly of him venting about his own feelings), he could have been talking about several different types... so if you don't want to take his word that this person is SLI, ask him for more information. I see people here jumping to conclusions rather than seeking actual data to substantiate their protests.

About getting dirty, I agree with you. Some SLI's like to get their hands dirty, some don't. But if someone's main, constant focus is on sensation, and how it feels to him, then Si ego is a sound conclusion.

[Samson]

From how you describe him he doesn't sound like the typical SLI, except the holding things to himself bit. I know many SLI who have no problem with getting dirty, so it might just be a "him" thing. ..?

Like I said: OCD. The specifics don't matter though, it's how he approaches it that makes him SLI. A willingness to getting dirty or not is irrelevant, it's his focus on his internal sensing experience that matters.

There is no such thing as "typical"
.. except in the world of statistics, but that's a world of fiction anyway.

[wacey]

@isptn @wacey
It's my brother that @Samson is talking about, and he is definitely SLI, by the books. He goes out of his way to avoid upsetting anyone, to keep things pleasant, to keep things comfortable and happy.
Samson is talking about underlying, lingering tensions he perceives between them rather than actual confrontations.
It's a difference in priorities.
Most people consider my brother kind, pleasant, thoughtful, careful.

I would caution against making blanket statements about people's types when you don't know them. There is nobody worth their weight in dust who would not type my brother at SLI - he is prototypical, one of the easiest typings out there.

But you are jumping to conclusions based on Samson sharing his feelings rather than asking for a broader view of the person he's talking about.

Nobody would know him better than you. I never stated he was not SLI, just that the things Sam used to describe him are not "prototypical", they sounded more idiosyncratic to him in particular. For example: SLI covered in oil and grease from mechanical work - not a problem.

SLI is one type I am most familiar with and can easily spot. I also have witnessed them "loose their shit" in random instances when they have a problem with something - in ways that are totally anti-Fe.

By all means share your broader view.

[Volcana]

When I was a kid I used to get scolded by my parents for not dressing warm enough. I wanted to look normal because no one else was wearing heavy coats. They didn't care what everyone else was doing, they said if it's cold I need to wear a coat. But my parents are both Se and I'm SLI.

Sounds like my brother (the SLI mentioned above) vs. my parents, who are both Alpha. He is more concerned with looking normal.

Had I been in the situation you described, I would have no problem with you complaining about being cold and probably wouldn't even mention a coat. Can't say about other SLIs though, as I'm not sure what's typical.

I don't think this is related to Socionics type. People have different reasons for worrying about temperature - chronic illness, Sp dominance, hot flashes...
The question is, why wouldn't you mention a coat? How would it affect you, to turn the air off? Would the effect on you be the same as the effect on my brother - as in - giving you medical symptoms? There are many factors here. The underlying problem is not that my brother is a shitty person or a rude-ass, but rather, that his communication with Samson simply does not work. Their protests and needs are both legit, but their priorities are so different, and so difficult for the other to understand, that it's hard for them to see the other's point. That is what Samson was venting about.

I hope that's not what SLI is supposed to be like. He just sounds like an unpleasant person, may not be type related. Talking about bathroom adventures sounds like he was trying to make people uncomfortable.

This is what people talk about in my family, with my exception. They blurt out all kinds of shit at the table that would make most people want to die. My brother does this with his own family. My parents are both doctors and my mother loves to discuss these kind of details about everyone's health; she worries a lot and wants to take care of people. She is an SEI. Also an Sp 1w9 in enneagram. Very focused on taking care of her own, medical health, Sp stuff. My brother is also Sp and Si dom. She takes a big part in managing the health of anyone in the family that allows her, because she is brilliant on these topics and over-concerned. So it is welcomed and normal to discuss such issues at the table.

Beyond that, we are also Jewish. Jewish culture is not big on manners. For many Hasedic jews or Israeli jews, they will pick up the phone , without saying hello. You ask a question, they answer, and hang up. It's all business. Jews don't have as much investment in politeness as Christians or Christian/Puritan based cultures, who are raised to be ashamed of their sins, to turn the other cheek, to be ashamed of their bodies. The old testament is full of arguments about whether God even exists or not. It's very Alpha; everyone wants the last word.. and very Gamma; rude and down to business. This is how we were raised. In a family where Truth reigns. Where the person who argues better, gets to have what they want. When the person joking about farts or poop gets everyone laughing, and gets positive attention.

SLIs, who are stuck to the values with which they were raised, and who tend to be 'traditional' ... raised in a family like mine.. are bound to turn out JUST like he did.


The presumptions in this thread about what is rude, appropriate, good or bad, are not global or instinctual, they are cultural.

The proper use of kitchen thing sounds more rational, LSE or LSI maybe.

SLI is still a thinker. As for it being rational , that is not true. SLI and SEI have tremendous sensitivity about things being out of place in their comfort zone. Neither my mother or my brother care about 'order' - but they care about how something feels to them. It's not related to logic or order.

I've probably never scolded people in that way in my life, Ip temperament is pretty flexible and tolerant. For that reason I don't think Si base types are likely to PoLR hit by telling people what to do or criticizing for doing things wrong.

Like Samson mentioned, my brother's big problem in life is that he doesn't scold or criticize.. he keeps all of his grievances to himself. My Jewish, badass parents have been pushing him to speak his mind all his life, and he never really got into that til his 30s, when he had built up so many grievances from keeping shit to himself that he started to work on being more confrontational. All that said, there has not been a proper confrontation on these topics, as much as a lot of tension between those two, which slowly gets resolved through actions (or through me jumping in with some orders).

[Volcana]

Nobody would know him better than you. I never stated he was not SLI, just that the things Sam used to describe him are not "prototypical", they sounded more idiosyncratic to him in particular. For example: SLI covered in oil and grease from mechanical work - not a problem.

SLI is one type I am most familiar with and can easily spot. I also have witnessed them "loose their shit" in random instances when they have a problem with something - in ways that are totally anti-Fe.

By all means share your broader view.

Sorry, I reworded my initial post because I realized it would make more sense to share a broader view on him than to write what I had written. Check the post above this one. I elaborated more.

[wacey]

Sorry, I reworded my initial post because I realized it would make more sense to share a broader view on him than to write what I had written. Check the post above this one. I elaborated more.

No worries, I will take a closer look. : D

[Volcana]

@wacey
Also I notice you are a 9 -
9s tend to be accommodating in general (sometimes overly so) . My brother is a 6w5.. more exacting and reactive. He almost seems like a 9 because of the Si... but then he has nervous brain-energy of a 6.

[Volcana]

Seems like Se DS rant to me. (Pretty IEIish anyway.)

The section you quoted doesn't really need Se DS. Not everything is type related.

[Hope]

What volcano said is true, it's more a cultural thing than anything (not necessarily related to religion, though), and to be honest, most ppl misread theory of socionics and get wrong conclusions. Bad understanding of theory without experience irl= assumptions.

Both of my parents are Si users and do the talking about health and corporal stuff on the table as if nothing. Actually it's a pretty common topic in home.
I used to do that too and it disgusted my IEE, so stopped doing that.

Anyway, the first page of this thread could help to demystify the matter: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tions-from-irl

[Samson]

The section you quoted doesn't really need Se DS. Not everything is type related.

There you go, with your quick wit and your brilliant insights. You beautiful warrior, always knowing where to strike true. No titan is safe, no god can hide. The Truth™ is on your side. And so is humor.

[Volcana]

What volcano said is true, it's more a cultural thing than anything (not necessarily related to religion, though), and to be honest, most ppl misread theory of socionics and get wrong conclusions. Bad understanding of theory without experience irl= assumptions.

Both of my parents are Si users and do the talking about health and corporal stuff on the table as if nothing. Actually it's a pretty common topic in home.
I used to do that too and it disgusted my IEE, so stopped doing that.

Anyway, the first page of this thread could help to demystify the matter: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tions-from-irl

Awesome, thanks for your feedback! Just to clarify, my whole family are atheists, but Jewish by blood. All four of my grandparents and/or their families had to flee from 4 different countries in Europe in the early 1900s. I am the most spiritual person in my family and I don't practice anything remotely close to an organized religion; I am forever building my own

[Volcana]

There you go, with your quick wit and your brilliant insights. You beautiful warrior, always knowing where to strike true. No titan is safe, no god can hide. The Truth™ is on your side. And so is humor.