duality issues - help!

**despoticembrace** · 03-31-2012, 03:01 PM

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**fen** · 03-31-2012, 03:11 PM

I'm not sure a true lack of conscience is type related really... It's quite likely it's just the values of you and this particular ISTp don't mesh well. There's always the potential you are not ENFp in socionics..and she isn't ISTp. But duality isn't guaranteed to work.

**redbaron** · 03-31-2012, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by fenryrr

I'm not sure a true lack of conscience is type related really... It's quite likely it's just the values of you and this particular ISTp don't mesh well. There's always the potential you are not ENFp in socionics..and she isn't ISTp. But duality isn't guaranteed to work.

Right. Duality usually provides ease of communication. I did notice once, when I thought I was hanging out with an SLE, I realized we kept misunderstanding each other and at that point I figured out that he was actually SLI and then it all made sense. But yes there are lots of reasons why the two of you might not meld well. But communication should probably not be one of those reasons, if you're really duals. Also, I don't find any of my duals "grating" the way you describe. Even when they're not completely healthy. *shrug* I dunno...

**Jinxi** · 03-31-2012, 09:37 PM

Duality is bullshit.

**jet city woman** · 03-31-2012, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by despoticembrace

but she doesn't just leave it at jokes she carries it out against others in a maybe vindictive sort of a way that I now find myself incapable of doing,

Hi.

I'm also an ISTp female, so I'm interested in your post. I've never dated an ENFp, so..... have no idea how that would work out, honestly.

But, could you elaborate here: what exactly is she doing, "carrying it out against others in a maybe vinidictive sort of a way"? What are her actions? Can you give an example, because I don't think I've done this, really, unless provoked to do so. If someone provokes me, I will be kindof an ass sometimes, but other than that, I remain fairly likable/civil. Although I become aggravated with certain people and call them names in private lol, I am actually less-likely to tell people in general what I think of them than some other types (Some Fi- types come to mind, who have frequently told me "You suck shit, and here's a list of reasons why, (you don't meet my standards)" and I'm forced to defend myself.) If I feel like I am becoming vindictive, I just go away from the person, without carrying it out, generally.

I wouldn't describe an ISTP as having a lack of conscience either.... I have plenty of conscience, and feel guilt just like everyone else does. ISTPs are principled and expect fairness for everyone. I also tend to take up for the underdog, and am loyal and protective over those I care about and like.

What you describe sounds like every relationship I've had with Fi-users in some ways. There are always ways I don't measure up to their moral and/or ethical standards (and sometimes their standards can be pretty goddamn ridiculously thought-out tbth, such as, if I don't make my S.O. a cup of coffee in the morning, suddenly I am the wicked witch of the west lol). I wouldn't expect this to be absent just because two people are duals.

**Galen** · 04-01-2012, 02:56 AM

Maybe you should re-evaluate your relationship with her as an individual outside of socionics.

I don't know the details of your situation, but you shouldn't let what socionics says dictate your relationships between people. There are simply too many people out there with their own idiosyncratic thought processes, ways of living, fears, desires, etc to let one theory encompass how you get along with them.

**Beautiful sky** · 04-01-2012, 04:18 AM

It takes about one year for you to "break" in the relationship; at first, the Thinker types withhold certain expected emotions come across rather cold and distant and the Feeler types don't know how to respond except to think that the Thinkers don't care enough in the right way. This right way is, like you said, someone of my type, who is warm. To us, Feeler types, the thinkers may seem "cold" or have a "lack of conscience" and consideration, that is because they can't sometimes read our emotions which we don't express to Thinker types in their language. You need to find the language of the introvert to make it clear that you don't want certain behaviors because they make you feel a certain way. If that person is mature enough, they will understand how you feel, even if they don't feel it, but Fi valuers like ISTp crave for a stable relationship and someone who can put up with their occasional antics, they are often a sign of playfulness. They probably don't mean to be "callousness towards others"; maybe he or she is just thinking along the lines of their Aristocratic nature rather than their more Fi, sensitivity towards others, this is where you need to take action and "activate" that function; to get them to feel and think more considerately of people. A relationship of duality, at first, doesn't feel "natural" and the couple needs to communicate and go through some long process to "come together." It takes time to do this and once the wheels fit and the motion is spinning and each dual does what their role is in the duality, the pieces become whole on all the levels. Just be patient and maybe try to communicate to them more. I felt the same way before my dual relationship, that both ISTp and ENFp were a more natural fit than a dual, but having had a dual relationship from when I was young, I also know how my duals are and what to expect from a relationship; even having known that, my dual bf wasn't dualized and he needed to learn to read me, which took us time. Read the person, don't criticize them because us Delta don't like approaching people with that kind of tone, interject some humor, lighten things up.

"I have a caustic sense of humor too, but she doesn't just leave it at jokes she carries it out against others in a maybe vindictive sort of a way that I now find myself incapable of doing, but have empathy for since I was once this way myself."

You've grown out of it and so can she, it's a matter of realizing it, consciously, your actions and what they mean in the greater scope.

The natural harmony comes after duals are completely dualized. It will take time, patience, communication, honest confrontations, for the extravert to "read" the underlying unspoken intentions of the introvert, in order for this to happen. Duality is amazing.

It's not going to be easy at first, it's harder when people don't know and consciously realize their own type and why they do the things they do.