characters' typishness:
chuck bartowski - IEE
sarah walker - SLI
john casey - LSI
morgan grimes - ILE
ellie bartowski - ExI
devon "captain awesome" woodcomb - xSE
Yeah, that's about what I would say. I think Ellie and Devon are more specifically EII and LSE, respectively.Originally Posted by laghlagh
This makes Chuck and Casey Conflictors, which dovetails well with the way they interact: Chuck is afraid of Casey, and Casey is annoyed by Chuck, and even the affection and friendship that's grown over the years doesn't stop them from getting on each other's nerves. Obviously Duality between Chuck and Sarah makes sense, as that's the only way a woman that hot would have anything to do with a geek like him.Ellie Supervising Morgan also makes sense, as he's always had a crush on her, but is totally unable to impress her, and she's always kind of looked down on him in a sort of sympathetic way.
[Edit: Interestingly, this also makes Morgan the Supervisor of Casey. I'll have to watch the show more closely to see if this is at all accurate.]
Quaero Veritas.
LOL thanks for making this thread laghlagh!! I watch that show too!
In fact I was wondering about chuck's type yesterday when watching the season premiere. . . didn't jump out at me. I'm thinking Ni-ego. Doesn't he seem a little Fe-POLR? Maybe ILI? You could be right about IEE though. I could make myself see it.
Sarah I wasn't sure about. I was thinking, an Se-ego type, but not sure. Her demeanor doesn't strike me as SLI. And she has this static look that made me think SLE or LSI actually, plus she's always hyper-perceptive. But she seems Fi-valuing. So I might say SEE? which would still make her duals with Chuck if he's ILI. I just dont see Si-ego in her, or any Si-value for that matter.
Casey -- not sure. I guess could see LSI for him. He doesn't seem SLI or ILI, and he has weak Fe.
Morgan Grimes -- yes I thought ILE too!
Ellie -- not sure but I could see ExI, sure.
Devon -- yeahh i think he's from an Ne/Si quadra. I sort of think he shows a lot of Fe, so i'm gonna say ESE.
But please educate me if i'm thinking wrong. Thanks.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Devon and Ellie are definitely Ne/Si as are Chuck and Sarah. I had always thought ILE over IEE for Chuck, but maybe I'm just stereotyping. Get it? Stereo-typing? hahahahaha.
LSI is almost certainly correct for Casey, imo. Sarah I'm not as sure about, but definitely not Se-ego, for all her badassery. So see, lots of types can be badass without being Se-egos. I suppose then she's SLI by process of elimination, as Se id makes an awful lot of sense, but she's clearly a logical type over an ethical type (and they certainly do portray Chuck as the feeler in the relationship, so it makes sense for him to be IEE), so that just leaves the mirrors, and curiously, IP temperament makes far more sense for her than EJ temperament. She's a very active IP, but that's due to her job, and that's actually something she doesn't particularly like about her job.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
The other option I had considered for Chuck and Sarah was IEI and SLE, respectively. But I think IEE and SLI fit better. Among other things, when I try to imagine myself interacting with Chuck, Supervisee always makes way more sense than Benefactor. I would get rather annoyed with his indecisiveness and his focus on irrelevant personal quandaries instead of taking what seems to be to be the obvious logical course of action.
I really don't see Chuck being ILI at all, nor Sarah being SEE. Of the two, Chuck is clearly the "people person", and Sarah is the practical, matter-of-fact one. NF and ST are the most obvious aspects of those characters, to me.
Quaero Veritas.
Agreed. Chuck isn't Ni-ego. I don't see anything IEI about Chuck, tbh. And their partnership dynamic is definitely not IEI/SLE at all. It's all about Chuck being goofy and when he surprises her, it's not that he surprises her with his capability and unexpected usefulness (the IEI thing is to seem helpless and useless and then to be super-capable in specific situations. Keeps the SLE interested), it's him surprising her with how useful his ethical skills are. And Chuck definitely doesn't see ten steps ahead like Ni. His method is much more Ne: what could happen, then be partially ready for any of the possibilities rather than narrow down to the one that's almost certain to happen and spring into action.
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
Exactly. As the show progressed from the first season, you began to see that this "bad-ass warrior woman" image was just a persona, the real Sarah was quieter, and wanted nothing more than a life of peace and tranquility. This drove her primary character arc in the third season especially, with her desire to escape the spy life clashing with Chuck's newfound badassery. Chuck wanted to fulfill his role function and be an Se-skilled badass, which distressed Sarah because she felt like she'd lost the loveable Base-Ne dork who allowed her to stop using her Id Se and just be her Si-Ego self.
Quaero Veritas.
Yes; I agree with all of this.
Quaero Veritas.
cool, thanks.
any reason for ellie and devon besides the supervision with morgan? i've been struggling with those two.
this is interesting, and i don't know how accurate it is either. i hadn't considered it.
i'm not really seeing Fe polr for the reason Krig said about his contrast to sarah. and i think he tends to take the lead a lot in their relationship as far as sorting out the emotional stuff. also, he's pretty easy to read; he's not showy with his emotions, but it's always pretty obvious what he's feeling. which provides some of the humor and tension for the show because he struggles with keeping his emotions in check enough to be a good spy.
what makes you consider Ni ego?
yeah, i can see how her demeanor doesn't really seem SLI and i think perhaps it has to do with the actress. i typed her SLI based on
1) her relationship with chuck, and
2) her unsuccessful attempts to maintain appropriate relational distance with chuck at first, along with her hidden emotional vulnerability seem like they could point to Fi HA imo.
after typing this out i'm thinking my typing of her may not be very well founded.
Yeah you guys are right. I'm not even sure why i thought ILI for Chuck. I think for a moment there I suddenly thought maybe he was Fe-POLR, but he definitely didn't seem SLI. I'm just not thinking straight tonight--SO exhausted.
Chuck is DEFINITELY the people person of the pair, that is very true. And maybe like you said, I may have just reflected on his subdued Fe.
I see what you all are saying about the "fake badassery" of Sarah. Thanks for pointing that out.
Do LSEs really show that much Fe (wrt Devon) and enthusiasm???
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
In general, it's my impression that Ellie is the one who more easily grasps the big picture of what's going on, while Devon is the one who more easily handles smaller, more physical issues. Devon is always working out and seems much more in tune with his body, for example, than Ellie, while Ellie is always worrying about things that might be, instead of being focused on the concrete details of what she has seen herself.
In my opinion, an ESI would be more focused on protecting her most valued relationships and fighting against "bad" relationships, rather than the openness to new relationships and willingness to give everyone a chance that Ellie shows, while an LIE would be more focused on longer-term, big picture practicality, especially with regard to finances, instead of the short term, here-and-now practicality that Devon demonstrates.
I don't know that Devon does show all that much Fe, at least not in any depth. Certainly he has high energy levels, like all EJs, but his expression of his emotions is mostly limited to a one-note cheerful positivity. He doesn't do a whole lot of voice modulation to show the subtleties of how he's feeling, nor does he ever get swept away by the tides of emotion and lose the ability to think logically. Ellie is the one who sometimes lets her emotions overwhelm her reason, moreso than Devon. I think Devon's behaviour is quite consistent with Role Fe.
Quaero Veritas.
While procrastinating doing other things, I came up with this:
As usual, the short thick lines are the better intertype relations, and long thin ones the more difficult ones. Red lines are relations of Attraction, blue lines are relations of Repulsion.
Quaero Veritas.
I haven't watched this show in a while but from what I remember, isn't Ellie an Ej caregiver?
LII?
cool, i didn't even notice the whole delta quadra circle thing until i saw it laid out like this haha.yay for visuals.
hmm, well she's got this protective big-sister attitude with chuck and i think she seems emotional-caregivery, but i'm not really seeing Si-EJ..do you remember whats prompted you to think so?
That's really awesome Krig. Yay for LII's leisure time!!While procrastinating doing other things, I came up with this:
As usual, the short thick lines are the better intertype relations, and long thin ones the more difficult ones. Red lines are relations of Attraction, blue lines are relations of Repulsion.
For some reason i'm not seeing semi-duality between Morgan and Sarah. Maybe because they dont interact much?
And Chuck and Morgan seem closer than I would think kindreds would be (though I can't say my understanding of kindred is certain).
But yeah the complete delta quadra is interesting.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Interesting, i think it could be the pseudocaregiver thing. Chuck also is protective of his sister too. Two infantiles trying to care for each other.cool, i didn't even notice the whole delta quadra circle thing until i saw it laid out like this haha.
hmm, well she's got this protective big-sister attitude with chuck and i think she seems emotional-caregivery, but i'm not really seeing Si-EJ..do you remember whats prompted you to think so?
I think the true caregiver-infantile dynamic (to juxtapose with the one between chuck and Ellie) is between Devon and Ellie -- he surprises her with these lavish dinners that he made, etc. Wasn't there one episode where Ellie tried to cook thanksgiving dinner and her bad cooking was being made fun of? And she was throwing out turkey after turkey because they weren't coming out right? lol
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Well, I do think that Sarah gives Morgan more respect than, say, Ellie does. But yeah, Morgan's typing is the one I'm least certain of. However, it's important to note that the reason Chuck and Morgan are friends is that they've been best friends since they were kids. Now that they're older, and their personalities are better developed, you can see that there are significant differences between them, and they do tend to think that each other is focusing on the "wrong" things.That's really awesome Krig. Yay for LII's leisure time!!
For some reason i'm not seeing semi-duality between Morgan and Sarah. Maybe because they dont interact much?
And Chuck and Morgan seem closer than I would think kindreds would be (though I can't say my understanding of kindred is certain).
But yeah the complete delta quadra is interesting.
Interestingly, the newest episode (the season 3 premiere) had Morgan trying to help out Chuck with his currently long-distance relationship with Sarah (which Morgan lives vicariously through
Another interesting point about that diagram, is that when Sarah is in "work mode" and focusing on her Id, she would appear to be an SLE. If you notice, that's when Casey gets along with her the best -- he finds her reversion to Delta values annoying, and is always admonishing her to "get back to work", i.e., "be more SLE again!"
On the "Complete Delta Quadra" thing, I find it interesting that the scenes in the earlier seasons where Chuck, Sarah, Devon, and Ellie would go on double dates and the like always seemed very... stable. Normal. Like, if it weren't for the spy stuff, these four would be very good "couple-friends".
Quaero Veritas.
Wow, yeah! I like your explanation of Sarah vs Casey! That's really eye opening.Well, I do think that Sarah gives Morgan more respect than, say, Ellie does. But yeah, Morgan's typing is the one I'm least certain of. However, it's important to note that the reason Chuck and Morgan are friends is that they've been best friends since they were kids. Now that they're older, and their personalities are better developed, you can see that there are significant differences between them, and they do tend to think that each other is focusing on the "wrong" things.
Interestingly, the newest episode (the season 3 premiere) had Morgan trying to help out Chuck with his currently long-distance relationship with Sarah (which Morgan lives vicariously through
Another interesting point about that diagram, is that when Sarah is in "work mode" and focusing on her Id, she would appear to be an SLE. If you notice, that's when Casey gets along with her the best -- he finds her reversion to Delta values annoying, and is always admonishing her to "get back to work", i.e., "be more SLE again!"
On the "Complete Delta Quadra" thing, I find it interesting that the scenes in the earlier seasons where Chuck, Sarah, Devon, and Ellie would go on double dates and the like always seemed very... stable. Normal. Like, if it weren't for the spy stuff, these four would be very good "couple-friends".
And i hear you about Morgan and Chuck having been best friends since childhood and i definitely see the differences between them and the annoyances they have with each other. LOL @ the sexting, yeah! That was hilarious! I guess another semi-duality thing was how Sarah sort of decided to try it, maybe? (even though she was going to be sexting with Chuck, but it was morgans idea, and she knew it at that point).
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I've been watching this show again, and I think I'm going to change my mind on Morgan's type. I was always kind of unsure of him being ILE, and it occurs to me that SEI fits much better, particularly with the intertype relations.
The biggest thing is that, especially now in season 4 where Morgan and Casey are interacting more, it's pretty clear that Morgan doesn't Supervise Casey. Benefit, on the other hand, makes much more sense. Morgan seems to be the only character on the show who's had much success getting past Casey's hard exterior and affecting him on an emotional level (Fe). It's interesting.
WorkaholicsAnon noticed the other relationships before I did:
If Morgan is SEI, that makes him and Chuck Semi-Duals (and thus the closest relationship Morgan has with any of the other characters), and it makes Morgan and Sarah Kindred (which also makes sense, as in some ways Morgan seems to understand her better than Chuck).
It also makes Ellie Morgan's Benefactor, and Devon his Supervisor, which I guess still makes sense. I can definitely see Devon getting kind of annoyed by Morgan's antics, if forced to put up with them for too long.
Morgan is a little more high-energy than what one usually expects for SEIs, but otherwise everything else fits much better than ILE. I'm kind of wondering if Casey's daughter Alex might turn out to be ILE -- I hope they do more with that character. I get a vague "Alpha" impression from her, anyway.
Quaero Veritas.
i haven't watched the show in awhile and i'm feeling sort of nostalgic now. maybe i'm getting too excited about your post considering i've fallen out of touch with the show because it makes perfect logical sense when i read it. but i'm especially convinced by his cute interactions with casey. and from what i remember of his character at this point, i recall nothing that makes me very averse to the idea of SEI for his type.
lol, i was just going to say something along those lines, but you said it all girl!
i haven't watched the show in awhile and i'm feeling sort of nostalgic now. maybe i'm getting too excited about your post considering i've fallen out of touch with the show because it makes perfect logical sense when i read it. but i'm especially convinced by his cute interactions with casey. and from what i remember of his character at this point, i recall nothing that makes me very averse to the idea of SEI for his type.
And the world makes sense again!!
Thanks Krig!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I always thought Chuck was ILE too. He reminds me a bit of Jim Halpert from the Office (an ILE), but I can see IEE now that it's been mentioned here a lot more.
I thought Sarah was either SLI or an SEI with deeply buried emotions, but SLI seems to make much more sense.
I'm in agreement with Chuck, Sarah, and Casey. (though I'm not sure about introversion vs. extroversion)
Morgan logical? He says in one episode his special talent is bonding with people. That's ethical. Same with Chuck. He says he is all about dealing with feelings and caring about people. Both of their ethical functions are directly compared to Casey's logical function. In many episodes.
What about enneagram types?
Chuck - ???
Sarah - ???
Morgan - 6? (he's a scaredy cat yet can do heroic acts like breaking his thumbs to get free)
Casey - 8? (as Chuck said, Casey has no calm center; his success as a spy is driven by his anger)
Thank you! I've watched (nearly) all the episodes and there's no way Morgan is not an ethical.
Indeed -- it seems clear to me now. Like I said, the only thing holding me back somewhat is his fairly hyperactive energy levels, but I can't see him as ESE or any other Rational type. SEI is the only thing that makes any sense.
So far, Alex still hasn't had a huge role in the show, but in general I haven't seen anything yet that contradicts my hypothesis that she's ILE. I'd like to see her developed more as a character. I just hope they don't write her out of the series like sitcoms sometimes do ("Morgan is only funny as a pathetic lonely nerd! Let's kill off his girlfriend so we can have more laughs at his expense!").
Quaero Veritas.
AHEM.
I think I have a crush on Chuck. IEE seems likely.
Lolol- when I clicked on this thread I briefly thought that it was about TV characters whose names were Chuck (no other relationship to each other) and it briefly broadened my view of gamma humor hahaha. ("they're just as stupid as *us* !")
I can see Chuck as IEE, Sara as SLI and Casey as LSI.
The rest I'm not sure of, but have nothing against @Krig's typings throughout the thread.
Okay, having thought about it a bit:
chuck bartowski - IEE
sarah walker - SLI
john casey - LSI works I suppose. He's the outsider on the show, but I still see him as having positive relationships with everyone.
morgan grimes - ILE, though he is a particularly Fe heavy one.
ellie bartowski - She's clearly ethical, but I'm not sure I see all that much Ne? I don't see an abundance of Se, either. Just lots of Fi and Fe and a bit of Si. I suppose my EII boyfriend gets into all of the same Si stuff she does, but a lot goofier than she is. I don't really see any goofiness at all from her.
devon "captain awesome" woodcomb - xSE, leaning strongly towards LSE. Certainly not Fe subtype if he is ESE.
I don't think it would be totally crazy for Ellie and Awesome to both be ESEs, a feminine and a masculine version. I'm not particularly opposed to EII and LSE though. I just see more focus on Si than Ne in her is all. Also, extroversion is quite plausible, though I don't really see an EP temperament.
Does anyone else think that Morgan looks like Chuck Norris???
reading this thread almost 3.5 years after i originally posted in it, I completely concur with your typings, lungs. This is exactly what I would type them today. (except maybe SEI for Morgan)
characters' typishness:
chuck bartowski - IEE
sarah walker - SLI
john casey - LSI
morgan grimes - ILE
ellie bartowski - ExI
devon "captain awesome" woodcomb - xSE
Boy, was I a noob back then.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yes!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I was going to say this initially and then talked myself out of it. I can still see sorta it though. Most of the ILEs I've known have been more awkward than Morgan. Morgan's awkwardness is warm and charismatic in a way.
Okay, I definitely think Morgan is SEI.
Can I be SLI now?
Sure but being LSE is just as awesome!
(what a way to use my 5000th post!)
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Is it strange that I think that the most unrealistic thing about this show is that they don't pay him anything to work pretty much all of the time? It also seems like his handler would be more likely to sleep with him than not if the idea is to keep him complacent, though that would sort of ruin a big part of the point of the show.
Been a while since I saw the show, but from what i remember, he was pretty much "enslaved" so to speak. He tried to just leave it all and not do it anymore, but he couldn't. Also, part of it is his commitment to helping those in need. I think they probably do pay him though....it's just not really discussed on the show. He doesn't really need to be working at that Geek Squad, it's just a stakeout.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
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