What careers are well suited to ESE?
ENFj jobs/occupations/careers: what do ESEs do for a living?
What careers are well suited to ESE?
Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-06-2020 at 12:00 PM.
There aren't a million jobs out there for ESEs but I can name a few: nurse, doctor, actor/actress, comedian, waiter/waitress, bartender, hair stylist, florist, and in cosmetics. I sometimes even see them in business, banking, marketing, etc. Mainly in any type of people-oriented field or emotion-driven field. Rarely in something like accounting or economics...
Also: sometimes writer, painter, musician, etc.
Last edited by jason_m; 12-08-2016 at 05:08 AM.
Whatever field they are in I often note they make their way into management/leadership positions.
It seems to me there are way more jobs suitable for ESE than LII. Alot of the jobs out there require good customer service skills, something an ESE is typically drawn to and is good at. The jobs where you can work alone, immersed in some in deep intellectually stimulating project seem fewer by comparison.Originally Posted by jason_m
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Yeah, that's true. While I couldn't think of a huge number of careers for ESEs, I had an even harder time thinking up careers in the LII thread!
This question is sort of hard to answer. It seems like ESEs can be into a wide variety of things, as long as it involves being active and interacting with people. The actual content is sort of secondary.
Among the ones I have known IRL: security guard, truck driver, teacher, secretary, photographer, HVAC business owner, food critic, doctor, mathematician, accountant.
When the job is centered around creating something novel, groundbreaking, surprising - they're mobilized by it. But it needs support from the outside so ESE can really go with it, even amplifying it with their enthusiasm and force. So you can observe ESE riling up all the people charismatically when there's a good idea among colleagues, but not necessarily coming forth with this idea themselves so that it would fit all the necessary criteria of a good idea.
Bonus: Maybe this is relevant, for the sake of peppering this with myand your own interest in the element, those criteria are for instance:
- it combines something known with the unknown, otherwise people will be wary or bored by it
- it shows you thought outside the box
- you flipped something around in a way so it becomes new, suddenly
- it makes people ponder differently
- if it sparks other ideas like a domino effect, it's good
There was an ESE who was the principal of an elementary school. Was a great job for her, and she did a great job. She had the friendly demeanor and welcoming nature common of ESEs, was able to be fair with her discipline, was well-respected by kids, teachers and parents alike, and working in education surrounded by kids - well there's always something new to learn from kids. She at least gave the impression of really enjoying her job. Retired a couple years ago.
I think the "to be perfect" thing is highly misleading, perfection is a concept that basically is the ultimate position on the hierarchy of all judgements, thus it could be be beauty knowledge power love etc. In some sense perfection is what everyone aspires to implicitly by their actions to move forward in any direction. Not to mention it gets kind of mixed up enneagram type 1 stuff, which maybe you are, which is perhaps why that phrase resonates with you. Anyway I'd like to think more in terms of Ne mobilizing which is to say, like Chae pointed out, you respond in the presence of promising ideas with your ego functions in order to promote them. You also like positive feedback along Ne lines which is to say something like "you're considered as someone who knows whats up"
I think of myself as an E1 so it might be interesting to compare notes in that sense, also I think @Chae would have a lot to say on that topic as well, though it is a digression
edit: another way to think of perfection is (in the mobilizing Ne sense) "I want things to be as good and as fully realized as I believe they possibly can be" so its sort of subjective, but its this drive to make the most of every opportunity i.e.: maximum enthusiasm (Fe)... which is different than say, "no mistakes" or "minimum/no collateral" or even "net return on investment" in terms of logic of actions, but those things would be precisely requirements of LSE's Ne drive
Last edited by Bertrand; 08-01-2017 at 03:16 PM.
ESEs usually seem to use the word "perfect" or some equivalent to punctuate an accomplishment. When under stress they withdraw and try to glean overall perspectives. They'd like to have a vision of the underlying philosophy or essence but too often will give into their impatience and settle for the simple, practical view. When they analyse qualitative information, they seem to have to isolate themselves taking away all distractions, which may seem odd because they produce so much relative output. When they do actually remove themselves from personal association, they cannot bear the disconnection for too long. They don't consider information as transient or disposable, which confounds their ability to analyse objectively. They often come up with idealistic or unrealistic plans but quickly change them when reality strikes. They seem to frequently wish that everyone and everything behaved with theoretical perfection.
a.k.a. I/O
Ah thank you dear. I'm glad it helped!
I think I can see how ESEs wanna be perfect. But only with some specific ones. I remember an ESE who was super ambitious and hard working at school (she graduated as one of the top 3), was super sporty etc. She almost always had this unshakable demeanor as if nothing could go wrong. While I personally didn't mind that (I just found her very prudish in a way, like on a personal level it didn't work between us.. just superficially) I remember some former friend of mine also said (because the ESE failed a university test the first time) it might have been good to fail once in life so she knows how it feels at least once. It is really weird but many people are actually put off by too much of a perfect stepford wife-life in a way (though she was very independent). She had a very prude and straight-line way of living life, always very positive.. almost TOO positive for some people. Being too smooth can look inhumane to some people.
Last edited by dot; 08-01-2017 at 08:06 PM.
1.) Hidden agenda comes out with catching, spotting, noticing, a thousand little real details that often, from my own point of view, have a thin connection to the matter or task at hand.
2.)To have a handle on the exterior situation and this includes knowing all the possible facts.
For example: noticing the wood panelling on a door way, noting the service in the hotel room, noting the uniforms of the service men, walking through work catching every single single aspect of the job (same with LSE), never missing a single moment to put best foot forward, ever. Connecting some random fact about the roof top of a building with some other random fact of a historical moment with some other random fact connected to their own lives (noticing the vortical-synergistic nature to these seemingly random connections). Storing and collecting items for use at a unforeseen later date just because. Uncertainty about which connections are relevent: relies on media, trusted friends, news sources. Over reactive extroverted intuition. Hyper focus on the inconsequential.
For example: needing to be expained why an item is placed a certain way; why an action is being done a certain way; wondering what people are doing. Weak extroverted intuition leads to *over* intuition- comments and questions that look redundant, or rhetorical. High need for expressed information communication and exchange.
3.) Strong desire to appear to be doing the right thing. Some of which is enneagram influenced, but you catch my drift.
For example: wearing the correct work clothing, following the correct beaurocratic procedure. High rationality and steady energy output are the influences here. Some ESE will at times break past rules, but this is short-lived. Not the rebel types.
Last edited by wacey; 08-01-2017 at 04:59 PM.
I bring this aspect out in my ESE, indecently, now that you mention it. I can hear him now say, "I fucking hate so and so and such and such." After spending this much time around me. It doesn't sound natural to him.
Really though this is making you guys sound worse then you are because in reality you kinda are saint-like in the sense of always trying to do the right, most fair thing. Still, the peevish, some-what immature aspects don't seem to register internally.
@sorrows, can you comment on the other points I had brought up?
I dunno my mom is a crazy packrat and ESE as far as I can tell. Its more like shes not sure if stuff will be useful so she hangs onto it just in case. She's got a garage so full its ceased to function as a garage
IME they try to think about the future from time to time, and they think it's probably something that they should do, but it's a really wobbly skill. Future-thinking can also get really black-and-white for them, like it's all or nothing. They can oscillate between being uber-focused on achieving future goals to acting like the future doesn't matter anymore, sometimes within the same hour. This can manifest in a variety of behaviors as well as lead to a variety of subconscious habits, and being a packrat isn't outside of that particular realm of possibility.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
well I will say this! the other ESE that I know (that I'm reasonably sure is ESE along with my mom), just very excitedly told me about this documentary about minimalism he watched and how he's getting really into it. So I'm thinking maybe it simply goes both ways but regardless it tends to go hard
it might have to do with other factors too, my mom is in her 50s married with lots of familial stuff that got passed down (a lot of it is junk, like old beat up desks and stuff, but to her its all got value) so its like a product of lifestyle in some sense. The other ESE, the minimalist, is a single man, so I think that might have something to do with it
From the older ESE I know, how he copes is by being incredibly rational in the traditional sense of the word. Planning trips, always being on top of everything he deems important. Car goes to shop every three months (he has no idea what they do, just that he should take it); hotels are booked weeks in advance; everything is accounted for. Essentially so the harmony of the external situation does not become disharmonious. General dislike for on-the-fly problem solving and ad-hoc, take it as it comes maneuvering. For instance, "what are we planning on doing for dinner?" ---> just winging it is generally not a philosophy I hear from them.
I see it as blind purchasing of things for use of Ne: the opportunity is now there to do a project, have a thing, pull out some useful item in some nebulous unforeseen future. Not altogether type related, still I think hoarding of items is related to intuition of possibilities.Except: "Storing and collecting items for use at a unforeseen later date just because"- that is more Ni HA. ESEs tend to be fairly minimalist and not thinking that much into the future.
For instance: belonging to a facebook buy and sell local group and bidding on items because "we need this". "Really, we need one more glass vase?"----item collecting for the sake of Si aesthetics coupled with increasing potentialities of utility (Ne).
I (LII) only buy stuff when I need it, not in case I need it. I do tend to accumulate stuff - ie don't throw stuff out "in case I need it" or if it has sentimental value, maybe because the clutter has to build up a fair bit before it bothers me. Although every couple years I get fed up of the clutter and go on a little purge.
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