Enneagram type 9 Good Descriptions Profiles

[Hope]

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[Chae]

Nines search for harmony and comfort and avoid tension and conflict. Symbolized by yin and yang, Nines try to reconcile oppositional ideas, forces, and perspectives as a way to have all perspectives considered.Relaxed, easy to relate to, and accepting, Nines perceive and honor multiple viewpoints and are usually excellent facilitators, drawing out the ideas of others so everyone gets heard. While they value harmony, seek comfortable ways of relating, and are often adept mediators of conflict between and among others, most Nines are extremely uncomfortable with conflict when it’s directed toward them and even more uncomfortable when they feel angry with someone else. As a result, Nines keep themselves from doing anything that might generate conflict or create disharmony; they keep themselves from being aware that they are upset; don’t express opinions or preferences that could cause discord or disagreements; and diffuse their attention by engaging in activities that comfort them, rather than focus them on their own desires or priorities. As examples, Nines may do some of the following: watch television for hours, flipping television channels on a regular basis; cut the grass or work in the garden when they have projects at work or home they should be doing; go shopping or walk the dog for extended periods of time as a way of avoiding what they should be doing; or even do the dishes in an overly thorough way rather than have a difficult conversation with someone or do work they don’t feel like doing.
While Nines appear easygoing on the outside, many experience some degree of internal tension, and they are not always as non-judgmental as they appear. In addition, some Nines tend to satisfy their desire for comfort through the satisfaction of their physical needs – for example, eating, sleeping, and/or reading; some Nines submerge themselves in service of group needs by working extraordinary hours, which allows them to forget about their own desires; and other Nines find such comfort in fusing or blending almost completely with other people who are important to them that they lose a sense of themselves in the process.
The Nine’s interpersonal style is agreeable, relatively unassertive, and non-invasive, and they are often able to talk with others about a variety of topics in an easy-going manner. For example, Nines often nod their heads in affirmation or say “Uh, huh,” which doesn’t mean they agree with the other person, just that they heard what was said. Affable and humorous, they express themselves indirectly rather than boldly or directly as a way to create and maintain positive relationships and reduce potential discord between themselves and others.
While we can all prefer rapport and ease to discord, for Nines, the search for harmony and comfort and the avoidance of conflict is their primary, persistent, and driving motivation.

From here.

[silke]

On thinking and talking style of Type 9.


Nines – Confusion Techniques
Flu Flu Logic & Virtual Life Obsessions
- by Tom Condon

Archers are familiar with what are called “flu flu arrows,” a specially made arrow used to kill birds at short range. Flu flu arrows are aerodynamically designed to fly at full speed for about 50 feet. Then they stop dead in mid-air and drop to the ground.

In the trance of their Enneagram style, Nines practice “flu flu logic,” a kind of confused thinking that seems to go forward and then dead-ends. This is evident when Nines speak in rambling, saga-like stories filled with off-the-mark details that ramify like ivy. A Nine could begin relating a recent event, get part way into the story, veer off into an irrelevant sideline, double back to explain something they left out, then continue telling the story in long rolling sentences peppered with stray bits of coherence. The whole narrative is a segue, like a drug with only side-effects, a town with only side streets. As you listen to the Nine, you could become perplexed and frustrated and then tired and indifferent. At that point, you feel the way the Nine feels.

In hypnosis, speaking this way is called confusion technique and it is often used to help a client with an alert, controlling conscious mind lose focus, grow tired and drop into a trance. To off-balance such a client, a hypnotherapist might tell an excessively complicated story, full of misleading clues, subtle puns and hard-to-follow plot points. Once the client grows mentally tired, it is easy for him to enter a trance-like state. In this same way, Nines use confusion technique to self-hypnotize, inducing in themselves a sleepy inability to think clearly that distracts them from their own priorities.

NLP calls this speaking without a “referential index,” which means talking about something without reference or context. If someone says to you, “Jason went to the wrestling match the other night,” and you don’t know anyone named Jason, you will likely be confused and preoccupied as you search for the missing information in the remark.

Confusion technique supports the way Nines can have “Virtual Life Obsessions,” (VLOs). VLOs are dissociated obsessions that Nines create about the direction of their lives that replace living their lives. These come about when a Nine is hiding, doubtful that the world has anything more to offer than it did in the past, but the people in the Nine’s environment expect her to have ambitions. Partially to placate others, the Nine obsesses about the goals she should have, the decisions she should make, the ambitions she ought to have. On a deeper level, meanwhile, she remains numb and non-committal.

Some Nines express their VLOs externally, for example by living in a chaotic, cluttered environment. While many Nines are neat and orderly, some have packrat tendencies. One Nine had a house overflowing with books that he was reluctant to get rid of because he “might read them someday.” Another lived in a large house that she filled with debris – unopened mail, collections of her children’s toys and books, even garbage that had been accumulating for years. This is living metaphor, a Nine’s physical expression of her jumbled inner state.


Reply from discussion: "In this same way, Nines use confusion technique to self-hypnotize, inducing in themselves a sleepy inability to think clearly that distracts them from their own priorities." Themselves and others. My older brother is a 9 and he uses this technique so much to get away with things. I used to watch him in amazement as a kid, as he would surround himself in a cloud of words and get away with things that other people, who were more linear and straightforward in conversation, would never have. If somebody noticed what happened and how he wrapped them around his finger, he likewise could quickly diffuse the impending conflict. This gives 9 a tactical advantage over others in situations of conflict of interests, not only a self-confusion puddle. Great description all in all. Very spot on!"



Coaching Nines – Stretched Perception of Time
- by Tom Condon

Nines have what NLP calls a “long timeline,” meaning that their internal subjective sense of time stretches far out into the distance. A 55-year-old with a short timeline might think, “It seems like just yesterday I was 25 and now 75 is rushing towards me.” By contrast, a 55-year-old Nine could feel the future unfurling before him in a slow, languid way. If you ask a Nine the question, “To what age do you expect to live?” the answer is usually between 80 and 110 years old.

Anticipating a long life can sap a Nine’s motivation to change. If the decades stretch out before him, a Nine might be in no rush to face a current problem or take corrective action. This lack of urgency makes procrastination an attractive path of least resistance. As one Nine said, “I feel like I have all the time in the world and yet no future.”

Like Sevens, Nines have personality defenses that make them feel better, so they may have a flimsy hold on consequence. As with Sevens, it can be especially helpful to connect Nines to the long-term result of maintaining their defenses. Encouraging a Nine to flash-forward to the end of her life and imagine how she will feel if her present life goes unlived may be an especially useful exercise.

You may have to “out Nine” some clients, giving yourself permission to lose interest if an unmotivated Nine client drones on about a problem that she never seems to solve. When I had a private practice, I would occasionally hit a late afternoon point of tiredness. I once had a Nine client whose motivation was faltering, who offered me a long rambling saga replete with confusion technique. Noticing both my own tiredness and lack of interest in what he was saying, I let myself doze off. A few moments later an annoyed – and motivated – client woke me up and demanded we get to work.

Connecting a Nine’s behavior to its impact on others can also help. A Nine client, whose girlfriend paid for his appointment, described a ruinous financial history filled with bankruptcies, chronic debt and fiscal irresponsibility. He said his money issues had ended his first marriage and upset everyone in his life, especially his wealthy fiscally conservative parents. He told this story with a faintly satisfied tone which increased as he described the reactions of his exacting authoritarian father, his histrionic mother and his vengeful ex-wife. As he talked, he implicitly dared me to try and change him, but I affected a light disinterested manner.

After he finished his tale of cascading disasters, I summarized, “So: Although your finances are still a mess, you’re basically fine with this pattern and state of affairs.” The man nodded. “All that really leaves is the example you are setting for your teenage son, the way you are modeling a lifetime of money troubles for him.” The man gulped and suddenly looked uncomfortable. Stammering, he said, “I..I.. hadn’t thought of that.” Although he was unwilling to change on his own behalf, he became more motivated to work on himself out of love for his son.

[GuavaDrunk]

@Slugabed \o/ What about you?

9w8:
"Could be passively amiable like a Nine and then turn horribly blunt like an 8. "

HAHAHA I have never done that, ... like ever ...

Strictly speaking, my perception of how blunt I am is distorted. However I've *been told* I sound scary when I put some anger in my voice. I can tell that I've put pressure in, but can't necessarily gauge how strongly it will affect people (does depend on the person too ofc.)

I'm honestly fine with the notion of scaring off people I didn't particularly want to have around, it's convenient. In that respect, I am not an open person. If I want to hear about different people I'm inclined to go read about it instead. However the data is then not as fresh and accurate; thus we have a dilemma.

Do sometimes have to stop and think about I'm saying, I've unwittingly spread gossip before and try not to do that anymore.

I was a model kid in a highly specific sense, and in other ways not concerned enough to be able to tell what to do to be model-quality. I'd have very good grades for eg, and at the same time turn up a half-hour late to class every morning, or would turn in work written in red ink (the teachers marked our work in red, so they could easily have rejected my submission.)

Have gotten better with age at keeping people's flaws in mind as well as their good sides.

"Sometimes they are driven by lust."

Please, be more general, this could apply to no-one at all.

9w1:

Playing the good child, etc. - Tend to do that when I don't want anything specific from an interaction and try to give the person what I think they're looking for so they'll go away. (It often doesn't work, if you are nice to someone who wants to talk for eg. they end up sticking around for some reason. Lol at me.)

"Placid numbness creeps over them. Intolerance of their own emotions. Gradually deaden their soul." - sometimes, moreso under perceived stress. It comes and goes.

Stackings: gneh - both yes and no in too subtle a manner*. I'm doubtful of one-fits-all descriptions for instincts + enneatype, of all things, because the potential means of expression of these combinations seem too varied.

Health levels: sounds right.

*Let us not forget when reading about enneagram in general that the Forer effect is a thing, too.

[Hope]

@GuavaDrunk

[GuavaDrunk]

@GuavaDrunk

You seem kinda bittersweet and playfully abrasive, that's why I think of you as w8, the 9w1s that I've known are "good/correct kids" and they aren't playful at all (they don't dare to mess up with ppl like we do ). But there exists balanced wings too.

On my case I fit almost completely in the 9w8 descriptions (also you need to know that my 8 and 9 are almost the same score on my tests so probably I'm a little bit more 8ish than other 9w8)...anyway, I fit principally in 2 (or 3 I don't remember) descriptions on 9w8 that I haven't posted yet in here (well actually 1 of them is already posted in this forum but I'd have to post it again guess).

...that's all I've to add for now.

And more descriptions, but later.


[Sluga's ugly mug]

and please remember, I'm still watching you...

That's fair re: my wings. I think balanced wings is probably the most accurate end-point.

How do you differentiate between e9 and e8 for yourself then, if they are so close?

 

[Hope]

oooh geez, so gross!

That's fair re: my wings. I think balanced wings is probably the most accurate end-point.

How do you differentiate between e9 and e8 for yourself then, if they are so close?

[silke]

A few more descriptions for instinctual variants of Nines.



Self Pres 9

Attention becomes fixated on secondary sources of gratification.

Nines have a habit of replacing essential wishes (needs) with unessential substitutes, such as too much food, too much TV, or elaborate hobbies or interests.

All nines have a tendency to replace essential goals with unessential substitutes, but self pres 9's can develop a voracious attachment to the replacement.

Preoccupied with physical comfort, maintaining habits and satisfying appetites.

A sense of personal security is associated with substitute, which is most commonly food, travel, TV, collecting.

Find immediate relief in zoning out on food or books/magazines/movies. Easily becomes a couch potato, vegging out with the newspaper, chips and a drink.

Store up a supply which clams them.

Collects things which are never used, but are there in case needed.

Cutting off a supply of the replacing substitute can feel life threatening because it represents the focal point of a holding patter that expends surplus energy in a predictable way.

An appetite for the substitute habitually appears when there is time and energy for a personal agenda.

Security minded 9's don't realizing they're shelving a personal agenda when they're gripped by an appetite like shopping fever. The rising interest in indulging an appetite doesn't feel lazy. It feels exhilarating. Something interesting to do that pulls you out of ambivalence even though it means a lack of commitment to yourself.

Strategy for getting along is to ask as little of life as possible.

Can have a love of the minimal and enjoy the repetition of known routines.

May be physically slow moving.

Consume food and drink for anesthesia.

May have large appetites or drug addictions.

Likes to collect objects and information. Sometimes has trouble throwing things away because they can't decide what really matters to them.

Appetite emphasis (in all matters, not just food, hunger can be satisfied but not appetite).

Very attached to rituals of watching TV, reading, working on the computer, sleeping long hours, going to movies, and so on. Feel anxious when anything interferes with routines.

Resignation is somaticized. Obesity is a passion. Tend to be big and have a paunch (or thin yet substantial with 1 wing emphasis on health). Focused on wants of this world. "I eat therefore I am". Is a yearning for love. Feeding and having instead of being. Economic values, bankers, economist, creature comforts. Like a steamroller, more aggressive but doesn't know it. Certain unawareness of others.

Pleasant easy going 9. Doesn't ask much from life. Built for comfort not speed. Simple pleasures-that can be relied upon. "The best surprise is no surprise". Slow inertia. Difficulty in mobilizing self on what really matters. Focus instead on comforts. Compensation for stuffing real desires. Sloth-take what comes along. Believe they can't get what they really want. Zone out in chairs. Least ambitious but often talented. Dry sense of humor. Comfortable, no hassles.. Puttering, routines, busy work. Pleasant complacent mood. Unhealthy prone to addictions, predilection to additions/overweight. Apathetic. Couch potato.

With 1 wing can have emphasis on health matters. Thinner. Holistic approach. Obsessive about health foods, herbal remedies. Metaphysical orientation.

The self pres 9 wanted this study to reveal they felt much stronger than Enneagram authors described them, as they do not go without their essential needs in life. They did however, explain that they were usually unwilling to be in a conflict to have their needs met. The stated that they would say "okay" and then privately make sure they got whatever it was they wanted, describing this as the power of patience, persistence, and resistance. Many of them were reluctant to share this aspect of their survival strategy because it went against their image of being the kind and loving peacemaker. Nevertheless, they wanted to break the stereotype of being percieved as the "non-person", clarifying that outwardly they may be soft but that on the inside they were hard as nails.

Can have a strong connection to 6. When appetites won't be satiated, tends to focus on feelings of fear and doubt about needs ever being met.

Everything metaphysical has to become a physical instead of being theoretical. Holistic methods/medicine. Yoga. Health foods, herbal remedies etc. "Heal yourself through the earth".

Value resides in belief that what is to be had is in the real world.

Talks a lot-occupy space by talking. Talk to fill a void.

Invasive. Overwhelms through good intentions "are you hungry?"

Goes along with the program outwardly, secretly makes sure all essential needs are met.

Will not go without food or comfort for long.



Sexual 9

Union is the desire to completely merge oneself with a mate.

Total merger with a partners inner agenda.

Unite, Melt, or merge with significant others.

Finding personal identity through taking on the life of another's as their own.

Nines can absorb another's life into their own.

"We are the same being"

Personal goals are surrendered in favor of the needs of another such that the beloved emerges as the focalizer of life.

Get lost in other person.

Thoughts and feelings seem synonymous rather than separate.

Union is the sense of living a mutual life rather than an individual one.

Union is the sense of mutual existence rather than being a separate individual.

The reactions of the pair are so merged that the partnership could be described as "inseparable"

Union provides focus and energy. Lazy about their own direction. Nines' partners can focalize effort and become the reason for being.

Can be listless and sluggish when not involved.

Feelings of being overlooked and disregarded vanish in a psychologically undivided state.

Focused on an ideal of romantic union.

Perceive the feelings of others more clearly than their own, clairsentient, and physically sense exactly what the other loved on is going through.

Psychic connections very astute.

Make their partner happy and become happy themselves through the reflection of this happiness.

The preoccupation can also extend to an absorbing wish to unite with the divine.

High expectations of partner.

Prone to jealousy.

Can also deny partner's flaws and idealize them to stay in union.

Another scenario involved multiple relationships. Searching for a fused connection.

Sound melancholy sometimes like 4's.

Can't decide between 2 people sometimes (triangulation).

Can be fickle because easily disappointed.

Difficult for them to leave a relationship because it's like leaving themselves.

Union (much more merging beyond sex) Spiritual unions.

I like the feeling of being in union with a lover, family member, friend, mentor, famous person, guru, pet, nature, or the divine.

When not in a relationship, melancholy yearning to be in one.

Sweet and shy. Gain a sense of being through the other. Alpha/Omega. Union/fusion. Contact allows the awareness of difference.

Can't create a space where there are differences, so no individuation. Lack of freedom to be oneself.

Becomes lost in others. Lose tension. Merge with those who have qualities like aggressive types. Living vicariously through others. Merge with one more vital-mine by association-want others to rub off on them. Idealize others-security. Seek a complete partnership. Romantic can resemble 4's. Can become critical and demanding if others let them down. Other becomes center of gravity.

Compliments and insults to other are equal to self. No individualization. Central object relations. Cinderella Wishful thinking.

Unhealthy-disassociation, depressed, lack of sense of self. Self functioning of past relationship. Reversion back to ideal union. Deep fantasy breaks.

The sexual 9 wanted to explain the experience of merging. They felt it was important to note that it happens automatically without their conscious intent, and as they become the other, the tension dissolves. It is only through merging with others that they can begin to discover who they are and what they want. First they merge and then they begin to say, "me, not me". It is only through the process of union that they find out what is "not me" and discover "me". They can fight for loved ones as "compliments and insults directed toward those with whom they have merged are felt as if directed toward them".

Often can only feel a sense of self with the desired other.

When totally merged with the other, has difficulty determining where self ends and the other begins.

I need time alone to discover who I am.

Contain someone's energy-merge until reason not to-invalidation.

Merges with other to discover self. Who am I?



Social 9

Social 9's gravitate toward groups and then have conflicts about joining or staying apart.

Social 9's are inclined to join groups and to attend on a regular basis without making a full inner commitment. The question stays open. Ambivalence is constant.

9's are either totally aversive to joining groups, often expressing their ongoing search for personal goals with the inner question "Do I belong here or not?"

Some social 9's stay basically uninvolved but hang out on the groups edge.

There is an attraction to the energy of people doing something together, which provides a pleasant distraction but also provides a constant background of energy that the 9 can dip in and out of.

Can enjoy group energy and interests but may be also aware of the group's expectation. These the 9 will both play along with and resist.

High energy feelings are molded and contained by familiar group activities. A defined activity presents goals, procedures and an ongoing timetable that demand a predictable expenditure of energy. You know what you are going to do, how long it will last, and who will be there.

Gravitate toward groups with meetings and agendas that allow memebrs to participate at a low level of energy and take responsibility and leadership when they have energy to burn.

Participate in group activities can be comforting way to feel included and loved.

It can also be the place of greatest laziness for social 9 because the energy that could be spent in meeting personal agenda is shunted instead of taking part in social activities.

High energy feelings can be molded and contained by the requirements of group activity. A defined activity presents goals, procedures and an ongoing timetable that demand predictable expenditure of energy.

Groups are often structured with meetings and agendas that allow members to participate at a low level of energy, or to assume responsibility and leadership when they have energy to burn

Gregarious but may start resit being heavily influenced, to compensate for their sense of lost identity.

Can sometimes resent how the group doesn't really see them.

May fixate on what others think of them

May resent the group and may make fun of it.

When immersed in a group. social 9's can lose themselves, trying to become all things to all people.

Participation (careful to avoid the center, don't want to get really involved)

Community emphasis on participation.

Frequently there is a lot of activity.

May get caught up in roles-stronger connection to 3.

In addition to wanting to further causes, I join groups in order to structure my time, to soak up energy and become enlivened, to see how I can best fit in, and to discover where to direct myself.

Participation comes from group. Being a part of and bonded to a group. More gregarious. Desire to be something bigger. Narrow view-local, peasant mentality. Doesn't go beyond limits (the hobbit).

Avoids conflicts. Participating withdrawn type. Tries to go along with plans. Likes to be involved with others. Don't like expectations placed on them. Doesn't want to be overloaded. Mediators. Balance interests. Most passive-aggressive. Difficulty saying no. What is expected of conscious of others opinions of them. Want to be respected. Afraid of not blending in. Anxious about losing identity. Participate from fringe. Fear of embarrassment-ruled by need to protect oneself from embarrassment. Difficult separating goals from social milieu. Can be scattered and disenchanted. Resigned and depressed. Neediness masked by emotional flatness. Doesn't want center stage.

Social 9's did not feel slothful and often strongly identified with 3's because they were "very busy" and constantly on the go with lots of energy. However, they described their energy as dispersed and diffused without being focused on a single goal. Some felt that they were w workaholics and didn't sleep much at all. The more extroverted social 9's stated that they "belonged to groups to find themselves through connection and shared interest with others." Nevertheless they were reluctant to take on too much responsibility to avoid conflict. They would rather be a member of the board of directors than be in charge. The social 9 felt universally connected to everything and had the most difficult deciding on a type.

Interest tend to be diverse to minimize time invested in one area.

Can be very active in groups or social causes.

[Adam Strange]

Clover: e8 King Julien: e9