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Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 12:13 AM.
- Meaning; Processes words, symbols, situations, appearances i.e. objects that indicate relationships between phenomena, in both spatial and temporal context.
gives these indications a partly explicit nature, an emphasis on breadth is resulted from such a combination. Indications are procured from lucid, straightforward and unequivocal behavioral observations that are algorithmic, processual and data-heavy.
gives these indications a completely implicit nature, an emphasis on depth is resulted from such a combination. Indications are procured from underlying interpretative and speciously tumultuous behavioral observations that are capricious, impressionable and phantasmagorical in nature.
LIE utilizes a reduced, yet concentrated, understanding of
ILI utilizes a reduced, yet concentrated, understanding of
- Will finish later.
Last edited by EyeSeeCold; 05-20-2011 at 09:57 AM.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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Fidei Defensor
Can't make Ni your scapegoat for blatant indolence.Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold
Or is it Ni that you're blaming?
From the vague, largely unhelpful generalities department:
-A personal, subjective sense of the flow of time. "Days passing like grains of sand through the fingers," "Time screeching to a halt," that sort of thing.
-A tendency towards imagination, fantasy, escapism, et cetera, and finding the life one "leaves behind" to be rather uninspiring upon "return." Desires for novelty are answered with retreats into escapist entertainment rather than actually going out and finding said novelty.
-A constant, Memento Mori sense of time pressure: one's time is always running out and one has only so much time to "do something" worthy of validating one's existence.
-In regards to the above, a large focus on one's existential "merit." "Am I worth the time and love and resources that have been put into me?" and other such troubling questions.
-In regards to the above, a lot of time spent "finding oneself" through philosophy, pseudoscientific personality theories, and a hell of a lot of introspection. Generally remains inconclusive and frustrating. I may perhaps be mixing e4 issues here, though.
-This is more Si-Role, I think, but a lack of motivation at the thought of riches, comfort, and expensive status symbols and a tendency to boggle at those who put so much importance on such things. Contradictarily, a tendency to spend excessive amounts of money on various interests, despite the almost complete lack of interest in gaining money for money's sake.
-In regards to money, a sincere desire to do what is most personally rewarding and existentially satisfying. "Finding one's place," essentially.
-A tendency to generalize local happenings to the broader world. Finding one's wallet stolen may lead one to make great and dark assumptions about the people of the world like, "When you get down to it, you can't trust anyone." Having someone return a dropped wallet with no items therein missing prompt one to make great and happy assumptions like, "When you get down to it, everyone is basically good."
-While this may just be personal taste, a tendency to enjoy largely melody-driven music with as few distractions in the way as possible. Lyrics are one such distraction.
I don't really feel like typing any more. But, well, this is how I subjectively interpret Nigh.
Ni is God's function.
If you know God, you know Ni.
And once enough people have posted to provide LIISeeCold with ideas he'll chime in with his parrotastic response.
Haha.
Ni to me is a thirst for abstract perceptive organization which guides powerfully controlled actions.
Walk into a subway, any subway, find the restroom, walk into it, go to the nearest toilet, lift up the lid.... chances are good that you'll find Ni contained within
NUH UH! YOU ARE!
Your comment lacks something I find, see I tend to look at my comment as a journey, its a journey into the depths of the earth to discover the true origins of this concept of Ni. You partake on this concept as a sort of lofty abstract notion floating overhead but with only a vague notion of what it means in reality.
Well it is rather simple, you see the truth can be found but one must follow my direction, the answer you seek is found in stall #32 at the new york subway station terminal 4. There open the lid and discover the contents which will enlighten you.
The truth exists, it is waiting there.......
See its like the matrix, your mental liberation is at hand......
It's not my fault you fail to grasp this simple and basic principle
I want to be interesting though, this greatly disturbs me, how can I be interesting, how I can I satisfy this request? Please let me know, your depleting my self-esteem reserves! at this rate I'll run out by tomorrow!!!!!!!
You don't know me man..........
Seriousness: Most people already have their minds set, all discussion will do is bring about drama and childish ego stroking/battles... if people really want to discuss something intellectual with me they should seize the opportunity when it exists, instead of try to force a debate etc. I mean some debates just go no where productive unfortunately. So I'm not really interested in a serious intellectual discussion for the time being.
Yea maybe I'll get around to it, I think in terms of serious discussion I'm fairly consistent with your view, I like the concept of Ni being stochastic, but I'll get around to the detailed version later.
it's largely the same thing as Se's preconception and stereotype based way of thinking, except it doesn't strive for the comprehensive understanding of the thing at hand but suffices with it's phenomenal, perspective-dependent form.
the absence of preconceptions explains the difference almost completely. Ne/Si function usage is neither limited by these preconceptions nor capable of using them to it's advantage in order to pre-empt experiential dynamics. Si/Ne always ends up deducing the identity of the world from the experience, while Ni/Se can occasionally deduce the other way around by limiting the number of world states considered plausible (almost entirely based on whether they have been encountered before). however, Si/Ne can recognize a concrete progression on the phenomenal plane (recognizing a recurrent set of concrete experiences one is "used to").What's Ne/Si in contrast?
Se/Ni: anchored by sense of normalcy
Ne/Si: anchored by sense of familiarity
all of this applies within the model that all types use all functions at differing levels of frequency and intensity.
^accurate.
I see Ni as a reflector of forms, which once emptied of their observable content, reveal inherent boundaries that can be cross-referenced; this then gives rise to abstract realms taken as the basis of phenomena (Ti influence here makes it sound more a priori than it is; paired with Fi it seems to act as more of a mediator of inherent form). Its being dynamic is why the given combination of forms always implies something self-referential. Strange attractors are a good illustration of how it operates.
4w3-5w6-8w7
Let's see who all posted, their frequency and meaningful & relevant content.
So we have 7 users who responded to the original post, at least once. 2 users who felt that they had to spam. One of which who contributes to almost no Socionics discussion, except for feigning mastery and expertise through cowardice in the form of hiding in trenches waiting for the brave and purposeful soldiers to attempt to mount the trench to shoot of their weapons on top of no man's land to win the war(, cause somebody has to die for our causes, right?) to pick them off with an advantage only true handicaps should be handicapped with.
I.e. if you posted in this thread without speaking your piece, while at the same time critiquing others, consider yourself a slimy coward worthy of no medal. Get out of our war. I'm ashamed to have you in my squad. I'd shoot you myself, except for the fact that I'd have to waste a bullet on you that I could use for a more purposeful operation.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
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Fidei Defensor
Thanks for your dramatic overcompensation. It's hilarious as usual. I weighed in on Ni in other threads, Tuff Stuff. Feel free to use the search function.
Stop that! Role-playing is literally painful for me to read because my empathy chip picks up the inevitable fail-wave and I momentary can't tell if it came from me or someone else.
Also staying on-topic is way overrated. If we are not free to go on tangents we will be on the narrow road to serious-town; nooooooo fun.
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
delete
Last edited by Slacker; 11-02-2011 at 06:13 PM.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
By saying "Everything is possible" you are saying something very anti-Ni.
Anything could be possible, but what's probable?
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
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Fidei Defensor
Good job, thieving parrot.
Haha..touché..
Well, I mean, technically anything is, indeed, possible. It's possible a duck could just teleport into my room right this second and quack out Wagner's "Flight of the Valkyries" before teleporting out, but the chances of that happening are, like, one in a googolplex.
No, you see, I was replying to the "Ha-ha, Gotcha!" spirit of your comment with a more basic, less disguised version of my own.
I like the word "vision" for
3/9/11 is before 3/14/11.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
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Fidei Defensor
Touché.
It says nothing about Ni. Try again.
3/9/11 is before 3/14/11.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
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Fidei Defensor
Keep lying, Fauntleroy. It solidifies your case and makes you an icon of admiration.
What is this? A fight over who said it first? That's waste of time..and quite despicable one, for that matter.
It's my type. You can't be it.
You need to edit that to include yourself for a number of useless posts.
Also I don't really have any great insights, I think of Ni in terms of two basic principles... the first is
subjective vs objective intuition
i.e. introverted and extroverted brands of intuition
the second principle is
bodies/fields.... dynamics/statics
Ni to me is very stochastic; its dynamic and concerned with fields, while being subjective.
I think it tends to see things in terms of relationships, it says nothing about objects. It's like a field theory. Say an electromagnetic field (probably lost 90% of my audience there), but anyways, an electric field doesn't tell you anything about the actual motion or effect on a particle in that field... it just tells you about the relationship of things with respect to a single source, that source being what causes the electric fields. However a field theory doesn't talk much about the source, its merely understood that the fields are created by the source.
In a sense Ni is much like this as are all "fields", I think of fields like this....
it represents circular motion (this particular diagram not Ni), but the key thing to realize about the field, is that it doesn't tell you what an object will do, its not a diagram of an object or an animation of its motion, its a relationship between something in the field and the source which generates the field. Say it tells you a charged particle will interact with a source charge in such a way that the charged particle will end up undergoing circular motion.
Ni however is not a static field but a dynamic one, so the focus isn't purely on the relationships between things but on the shifts in these relationships, like wave fluctuations, fault lines, and heat dissapation (now I lost the remaining 10% of my audience).... anyways its like this
A shifting field, the nature of the relationship between something and a source changes.
This is the underpinning for the spatio-temporal nature of Ni.
Ni of course is relatively useless without a consideration of a source or object to relate to or from, which is why in the ego block it will be coupled with Te or Fe, which is a bodies function which helps solidify the actual thing of consideration.
Also important to notice here is the fact Ni is less contextual as Ne as Ni is a field function and Ne is a body function. Ne will couple with a static field, which is more fixed. Therefore Ne requires a dynamic subconscious, which provides the shifts in cognition, this dynamic subconscious is the source of the contextual perspective.
In Ni types their subconscious is fixed (static) and therefore remains focused on a constant set of principles or notions from which they attempt to discern how this fixed viewpoint interacts dynamically with the world around them.
It's interesting to note how this breaksdown in terms of temperament
Ixxj and Exxp ==> Dynamic Subconscious, Static Conscious
Ixxp and Exxj ==> Dynamic Conscious, Static Subconscious
The energy and movement of these temperaments makes sense
Exxj and Exxp are more reactionary
Ixxj and Ixxp are more subdued
Exxj is reactionary to dynamic changes, imposing a set motive -- Strategic Reaction
Exxp is reactionary to basic triggers, without a specific motive -- Improvisational Reaction
Ixxj is very controlled attempting to impose a fixed system on their external reality, but they build these fixed things to react to the dynamics of the outer world
Ixxp is more drifty and floaty, like a leave on a breeze or misty, its temporal and readily shifts, but it has a tendancy to coaless around something static.
Basically visions, mental imagery, imagination, looking to the past and future.
Ni dominant types appear to be "dreamers", and "in their heads," because they don't focus on the here-and-now. Instead they are focused on their idealistic visions of how things can be. Basically, its the opposite of Se, where Se is focused on acting in the here-and-now. This may cause others to see them as lazy and unreliable in certain practical affairs. But this is also why Ni and Se complement each other so well- Ni lights the way, and Se gets it done.
And I want to reinforce that all types use Ni, but you can see that it's more dominating in types such as the INFp and INTp. The difference with them is they predominantly use Ni as a lens of reality, and types such as ESTjs, who predominantly use Te as a lens of reality, scoff at the use of seeing life through Ni, deeming Ni-types as too impractical and in their heads. So yes, I just described Ni as imagination even though all types use imagination.
Last edited by Computer Loser; 05-21-2011 at 06:10 PM.
We don't have to settle for the ambiguous use of the word "imagination" which also is attributed to Ne.
Consider the process that Ni's "imagination" goes through. First there is sensing - a static snapshot of reality is captured. That snapshot is held on to and abstracted with other snapshots. As time goes on, however, these old snapshots are used over and over and over in the formulation of new thought without being refreshed. With use, the snapshots' quality and intensity degrade, and so are overcompensated for in the form of Ni, or "imaginative thought" of how things really are. But in actuality, the degradation in quality and intensity makes Ni's overcompensation highly susceptible to being irrational and unrealistic, mystic and crazy even. All of this, though, can be reverted by feeding Ni with more snapshots of current sensational reality. However, that does not mean Se is on the actual side of "reality". In all truth, the subjective Self that allows these thoughts to deviate from the sensations, can attest to there being more to reality than meets the eye. But I digress.
It's interesting to see how this plays out in the types.
Ni Ego: Freely abstracting snapshots, accentuation is not too unhealthy, unless extreme.
Ni SuperId: Accepting of abstractions. Susceptibility to unrealistic thought from the unconscious.
Ni SuperEgo: Unconscious influence due to suppression. Constant suppression of abstractions for fear of unhealthy imaginative thought. Overcompensation in the form of "getting lost in the present" and minutiae.
Ni Id: Unconscious influence due to suppression, highly susceptible to unrealistic imaginative thought due to a reluctance to refresh Se perceptions.
All of the above should be taken with the understanding that from Se, Ni not only works both in a progressively nonlinear fashion, but also works outside the movement of time, for example, creative mental imagery and sound which are distortions of perceptions.
Last edited by EyeSeeCold; 05-21-2011 at 07:04 PM.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
♫ 31.9FM KICE Radio ♫ *56K Warning*
My work on Inert/Contact subtypes
Socionics Visual Identification(V.I.) Database
Socionics Tests Database
Comprehensive List of Socionics Sites
Fidei Defensor
That's a very common sense description of how strength/weakness of functions work but it doesn't quite describe the difference between value/unvalue. For example an ENTp is strong in Ni as much as a INTp in general, however the ENTp prefers Ne to Ni to supplement their logic. The ENTp also prefers Ti to Te.
I think the idea is that ENTp are strong in Ni as well, but they prefer Ne as a cognitive outlook. I would argue that since Ni is part of the unconscious according to Model A or subconscious, that The ENTp is more dynamic subconsciously and the static consciously. That this concept of dynamic/static works on the conscious/unconscious.
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