Differences between Te-seeking and Se-seeking?

[Hermit Soul]

How do I tell the difference between these two?

I've always thought that I'm an IEI since I've always had a great respect for authority figures and I heard this is Se-seeking, but now I'm not sure if I'm a Te PoLR anymore, because I'm currently working in a heavy Te environment with an LIE and LSE as my boss and I haven't felt any conflictor vibes with them so far. I'm actually quite sure of their type because both of them are very stoic and unemotional in the way they speak and present themselves. The LSE comes across as a bit more gentler and softer than the LIE, while the LIE comes across as quite firm and assertive, but both of them have the same stoic and unemotional manner in the way they speak and present themselves. My LSE boss haven't spoken any unkind words to me so far, and I remembered the first time I saw her, I actually found her quite approachable. And I noticed how my other LIE boss would often speak to me in a gentle tone, despite how he is usually a very loud and assertive person.

Now if I'm an IEI, shouldn't I clash with them since Te is my PoLR? But why do I not feel any conflictor vibes with them at all? Or could I be an EII instead? How do I tell the difference between Te seeking and Se seeking?

[Pookie]

Te seeking wants someone who will just do it without a second thought and not even have to be told that it needs to get done.

Se seeking wants someone who can get them to do it, by walking them through it and being able to jump in and correct anything the neophyte does wrong while learning.

[The Reality Denialist]

You might find Te seeking types soaking in desperation when it comes to some miniscule implementation.
When you arrive and solve it EII will look at you with great appreciation.
(and I think wtf)

[Saoirse]

Te seeking wants someone who will just do it without a second thought and not even have to be told that it needs to get done.

Se seeking wants someone who can get them to do it, by walking them through it and being able to jump in and correct anything the neophyte does wrong while learning.

I think it's actually the opposite? Te seeking wants detailed instructions on what to do. Se seeking just wants to be inspired, galvanized, pushed into action.

Note, for example, Strati's EII description.

Dostoyevsky is always grateful to a person, who is capable of advising him what he needs to do and how it is necessary to act in some specific situation. Generalized, vague phrases about how one should or shouldn't live are not sufficient for him (this trait is characteristic of his conflictor, Zhukov (SLE)): such approach to resolving life's problems only irritates Dostoyevsky.

[Saoirse]

This is the question that convinced @Singu that I'm EII and not IEI:

Do you feel more comfortable with/energized by people who say things like:

"Explain these things to me” “Demonstrate these things to me, give me the facts.” “What methods did you use? What are the statistics to support what you are demonstrating? Who told you of this fact? Who are you? Who gave you the authority to talk about psychology? Are you a psychologist?”

Or:

“How do I look today? I look good! I look the way I want to look.” “I know what I am supposed to do” "We have discussed and I have already decided"

The former is Te seeking, the latter is Se seeking.

I also don't think respect for authority figures = Se seeking. Respect for authority figures might make specific types less likely--like SLE or ILE--but I don't think it makes EII less likely. We are prone to admiration for those with real accomplishments after all.

As a Te suggestive, I'm obviously biased, but I feel like a huge difference between Te and Se is that Te power rests on a solid foundation of knowledge and ability, whereas Se power rests on a house of cards--it depends on being shinier and better at politics than everyone else. Se egos can also have real achievements and Te egos can also depend on flash, but if you had to have one without the other--would you rather listen to a speaker who is impressive in presentation but devoid of substance, or a dry speaker whose ideas follow a logical sequence, each step clearly derived from the previous one?

By solid foundation of knowledge and ability, I mean, for example, someone who is a great coder. You can't take that away from them, and companies will want to hire them even if they wear t-shirts with holes to work. But an investment banker's power usually just comes from having been born into a family with power in the first place. If we rebuilt society on a desert island, there's no use for the i-banker, while the coder could design efficient ways of doing things, help re-automate certain tasks.

If you like power for the sake of power, you're probably Se suggestive. If you like power for the sake of doing something real, you're probably Te suggestive. Not that Se valuers never want to do something real, but it's like they use doing real things to get power, while Te valuers want power so they can do real things. That's the perception of this EII at least--I hope I've not offended anyone, please clarify/correct, Se valuers of 16t.

Another way to tell the difference between IEI and EII is Strati's quadra complexes, try Googling them.

[Aylen]

FWIW, I thought you self typed EII until I saw a recent post.

Extroverted Sensing (Se, )

IEIs are often relatively inactive and indecisive. Many IEIs may be relatively immobile and hesitant to interact with the outside world. IEIs can withdraw from action in many social or working situations, and may come across as inhibited or shy. They may feel as though trapped in their own thoughts and dreams. Some IEIs, however, are generally less reclusive and more comfortable in social situations, but even they may feel as observers and unable to mobilize themselves spontaneously.

IEIs may tend to be stimulation seekers. This does not necessarily mean that they seek to surround themselves with alcohol, members of the opposite sex, and debauchery, but rather that they often seek some form of mental, social, or other stimulus. Often, however, they are not very skilled at spontaneous self-stimulation. They may seek to reproduce previous mental themes or past experiences and may have a deliberate, deadbeat attitude towards new events. They tend to only escape this cycle of inertia when impelled by another with stronger initiative. Some IEIs may be especially prone to enjoy such adventuresome sensations as lighthearted mischief or playful aggression.

IEIs tend to have indecisive or even fickle air about them, and often give others the impression that they do not know exactly what they want. They have a tendency to vacillate on important decisions or establish clear goals in situations with some ambiguity. In the presence of others who make decisions quickly and assertively, the determinations of others may be accepted easily and relieve the IEI's confusion.

IEIs tend to admire and gravitate towards individuals who are decisive, assertive, and inclined to energetically defend their beliefs and opinions in discussions with others. Conversely, they tend to show little interest in individuals who they see as lacking those qualities.

Se as Suggestive Function

The individual is often characterized by his inertia. If left to his own devices, he may choose to do relatively little to interact with the outside world. When he does interact with the outside world, he often finds his activities to be empty and unfulfilling. To this individual, life is often characterized by periods of stimulation. For him, however, true stimulation is often spontaneous, and interludes between periods of stimulation are often characterized by tedium, inertia, and apathy. He is often not very adept at finding new areas of interest, and may seek to continue to reproduce past experiences instead of moving on to new things. In order to break out of this cycle, he requires an outside stimulus of spontaneity and activity. With such a degree of spontaneity introduced into his life, the tedium and perceived meaninglessness is replaced by a constant state of activity in which he can experience new things and escape from the confines of his own mind.

He is additionally very indecisive. He may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially with regards to his own future. He may know what he wants to achieve out of life in a broad or long term sense, but will find it very difficult to set and finish the short term projects leading to it. In order to be able to act, he needs a tangible and definite stimulus from somebody well grounded in external reality and who has a clear picture of what must be done in a certain situation.

Extroverted Logic (Te, )

EIIs have a great admiration for people who are able to get things done neatly and efficiently in the outside world. They themselves consistently forget to consider whether their activities are actually achieving their intended goal, whether their time spent is bringing worthy proceeds, and whether their activities are organized in the most rational way. They subconsciously expect and appreciate it when others take interest in the effectiveness of their activities and helps to take an objective look at what they are doing.

EIIs are usually very curious and thirsty for information. When they have an interest in a particular topic or subject, they will try their best to read anything and everything about it in order to gain a thorough understanding. They are willing to listen to anyone who is knowledgeable or has a brilliant idea to share regardless of whether that individual is an expert or authority in his/her field since they strongly believe that there are many perspectives in an issue.

Te as Suggestive Function

The individual is attracted to people seen as knowledgeable, as well as truthful and willing to share that knowledge, in matters seen as interesting and useful to the individual towards achieving productivity and efficiency. Reliable information rather than the finished analysis is what attracts the individual; facts and explanations, not answers limited to the conclusions. For the same reason, the individual avoids people who are inclined to give out unreliable or simply untruthful information. The individual tends to neglect to think about the productivity of his actions and unconsciously relies on others to give him directions and advice about the best, most productive ways of doing things. He has difficulties measuring how much work he has done, whether it is sufficient, and how much it is actually worth. The individual admires people who are aware of the productivity of their actions and are always trying to do something rational and worthwhile.

[Pookie]

I think it's actually the opposite? Te seeking wants detailed instructions on what to do. Se seeking just wants to be inspired, galvanized, pushed into action.

Note, for example, Strati's EII description.

What to do vs. How to do

[nokomis]

Very nice

This is the question that convinced @Singu that I'm EII and not IEI:



The former is Te seeking, the latter is Se seeking.

I also don't think respect for authority figures = Se seeking. Respect for authority figures might make specific types less likely--like SLE or ILE--but I don't think it makes EII less likely. We are prone to admiration for those with real accomplishments after all.

As a Te suggestive, I'm obviously biased, but I feel like a huge difference between Te and Se is that Te power rests on a solid foundation of knowledge and ability, whereas Se power rests on a house of cards--it depends on being shinier and better at politics than everyone else. Se egos can also have real achievements and Te egos can also depend on flash, but if you had to have one without the other--would you rather listen to a speaker who is impressive in presentation but devoid of substance, or a dry speaker whose ideas follow a logical sequence, each step clearly derived from the previous one?

By solid foundation of knowledge and ability, I mean, for example, someone who is a great coder. You can't take that away from them, and companies will want to hire them even if they wear t-shirts with holes to work. But an investment banker's power usually just comes from having been born into a family with power in the first place. If we rebuilt society on a desert island, there's no use for the i-banker, while the coder could design efficient ways of doing things, help re-automate certain tasks.

If you like power for the sake of power, you're probably Se suggestive. If you like power for the sake of doing something real, you're probably Te suggestive. Not that Se valuers never want to do something real, but it's like they use doing real things to get power, while Te valuers want power so they can do real things. That's the perception of this EII at least--I hope I've not offended anyone, please clarify/correct, Se valuers of 16t.

Another way to tell the difference between IEI and EII is Strati's quadra complexes, try Googling them.

[Muddy]

Se seeking is about needing to others to bring you back down to earth in moments where you get unreasonably hesitant/wishy-washy, Te seeking is about frequently getting frustrated figuring shit out and needing others to provide a constant stream of useful information to help you do shit.

[Aylen]

I was just reading this article and thought this might be helpful to anyone trying to figure out weak functions that they value

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...by-Irina-Eglit

It seems that suggestive function possesses it's own sensitive indicator for differentiating information on the basis of "mine/not mine." It may be speculated, that experience, which constitutes the basis for this distinction, serves as "loading information" (V.D. Ermak), which is concentrated in the form of a value that must be kept intact in its original form. It is the qualities of one-dimensionality and vitality of this function that allow this value to remain "untouched" by norms of society or standards of the individual. These standards and norms are not recognized if they don't correspond to the individual's sense of "what is right", "what is my way/method". Fifth function works as a sort of an antenna, fishing out from a variety of information on its aspect only that, which the specific individual needs.

Examples:

Are strong people interesting for you? What do you see as a manifestation of power? How do you feel next to such people?
I learn from them ... with them it's comfortable and cozy. And interesting, very interesting ... because strong people are always interesting ...

And strength, I don't know, this is a feeling emanating from them, that they have an inner strength.

What is it about a strong person that is interesting to you?
Character, manifestations of their power, it is interesting to watch them, it's interesting to analyze what makes them strong, for what actions they are considered to be strong ... It is interesting to talk to them (it's simply interesting, you learn a lot of new and fascinating things), I'm interested in their point of view.

I try to learn from them how to be strong, because I believe that I myself don't have sufficient strength, that I am weak, and near them I learn and hide if something arises, be protected. (Suggestive Se : IEI "Esenin")

Information coming on suggestive function is interesting, fascinating, impressive, it can "lead on". One wants to be able to do something similar, to learn how to do the same. On suggestive function a person is easily suggestible. On suggestive function, one wants to be an observer rather than a performer, because person's own experience, as a rule, shows that he cannot do the same kind of work.

Information that does not correspond to the trait "mine" on suggestive function is subject to rejection: it is unpleasant for perception if it is persistently repeated.

Examples:

No one calls me "practical", me and practicality – is an oxymoron. I'm often blamed in impracticality, sometimes this hurts very much. (One-dimensional Te : EII "Dostoevsky")

I can speak for myself and somewhat for my sister. I have always been attracted to strength, in others, even as a child. I wanted that power for myself but did not know how to get it, other than attach to those who had it. Looking a bit timid and non-threatening (I am petite) allowed me an "in" with some people. By association I was also elevated in position and at times able to go places the person who helped me get there could not even go. I knew who had the power and who didn't. I am more selective these days. I don't mean physical strength but that too (sometimes). I didn't have a lot of fear because I felt the people I chose could protect me from anything or anyone. Found out later that was not always true...live and learn.

My EII sister has always been attracted to stable, often older, men who helped her understand how to get her work done, run a business, the household, buy useful stuff... things of that nature. She conforms to what I consider traditional family life (less so these days). I was drawn to people who were kind of impulsive, some a bit crazy, but got things done too. People others found intimidating in one way or another. Not just physical intimidation, an aura of strength, regardless of size.

My time with an ILI ex showed me that there was more to life and with him I learned to appreciate knowledge is also power and that I had the strength in me to deal with everything he and I went through. I do not instinctively look to others for knowledge though. That is something I felt I had but it was only when I put together the contrast between me and Te egos that I realized I was out of my element. My ex physically (body) looked like number 9 but I never felt protected by him. If anything I felt I protected him more than he protected me, or at the very least equal. I think due to my previous experience with Se egos I felt like the stronger person, whether I was or not is debateable.

[Hermit Soul]

I was just reading this article and thought this might be helpful to anyone trying to figure out weak functions that they value

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...by-Irina-Eglit



I can speak for myself and somewhat for my sister. I have always been attracted to strength, in others, even as a child. I wanted that power for myself but did not know how to get it, other than attach to those who had it. Looking a bit timid and non-threatening (I am petite) allowed me an "in" with some people. By association I was also elevated in position and at times able to go places the person who helped me get there could not even go. I knew who had the power and who didn't. I am more selective these days. I don't mean physical strength but that too (sometimes). I didn't have a lot of fear because I felt the people I chose could protect me from anything or anyone. Found out later that was not always true...live and learn.

My EII sister has always been attracted to stable, often older, men who helped her understand how to get her work done, run a business, the household, buy useful stuff... things of that nature. She conforms to what I consider traditional family life (less so these days). I was drawn to people who were kind of impulsive, some a bit crazy, but got things done too. People others found intimidating in one way or another. Not just physical intimidation, an aura of strength, regardless of size.

My time with an ILI ex showed me that there was more to life and with him I learned to appreciate knowledge is also power and that I had the strength in me to deal with everything he and I went through. I do not instinctively look to others for knowledge though. That is something I felt I had but it was only when I put together the contrast between me and Te egos that I realized I was out of my element. My ex physically (body) looked like number 9 but I never felt protected by him. If anything I felt I protected him more than he protected me, or at the very least equal. I think due to my previous experience with Se egos I felt like the stronger person, whether I was or not is debateable.

This is interesting. I can see myself in both. I find myself drawn to people who radiates both power/intensity and stability, and they are often men who are older than me. I don't really notice the opposite gender much, so unless they radiate a sense of power about them, I wouldn't be able to notice their presence. Like there was one time when I was volunteering for this event thing, and I saw this guy wearing a business suit bringing his dog over. I actually find myself noticing that guy immediately. Maybe it's the way he dressed, but he has this sense of power about him, and at the same time, he has this calming presence about him, so I can't help but to notice him. So I guess I can relate to Se suggestive in a way.

Hmm but I also relate to EII in the sense that I've been called "impractical" by people a lot of times. The people in my life seemed to think of me as a person who often have my head in the clouds and is naïve about the practical world, because I noticed how the people around me would constantly feel this need to "mother" me, like I have some people in my life constantly giving me advice about how to live my life. They seemed to think that I am inept when it comes to life, and they will often give a bunch of unsolicited advice about how to live my life, from my career life all the way to my relationship life, they will also nag me about how to save money for the future, it's like they are constantly trying to "fix" my life for me.
I don't know what is it about me that gives people around me the impression that I am "naïve" about the practical world, because I have never considered myself naïve when it comes to the practical world, in fact, I have strong survival abilities and I often plan far ahead into the future because I know that this world is a harsh place and if you want to survive in this world you have to plan far ahead into the future, so I've already started saving up money for my retirement years despite how my retirement years is like 40+ years away. I actually have an idea in mind how much money I need to save by the time I retire, and I have also broken down the sum by years and by months, so I actually have a target amount of money that I planned to save per month for the next 40+ years. Oh, and I'd also frequently hoard money in my bank account, to prevent myself from spending it. xD
Each time I go out, I'll also budget my money to prevent myself from overspending. Gotta save money for the future. xD
Lately, I've also been thinking of opening another bank account and hoard some of my money in there too, because I heard that they have a higher interest rate.

[Skepsis]

I can't speak for Te seeking, but Se seeking is being aware of power, but as an abstraction. One can recognize how that power can manifest in different situations and respects people that can use it wisely or offer protection. I've had Se doms jump in to defend me when people started pushing me around or harassing me.

[Skepsis]

There is also an ability to predict situations of power struggle, which allows one to slip away unnoticed, avoid direct confrontation, or talk one's way out of a potentially violent situation. I can tell what someone's tipping or boiling point is.

[Hermit Soul]

I can't speak for Te seeking, but Se seeking is being aware of power, but as an abstraction. One can recognize how that power can manifest in different situations and respects people that can use it wisely or offer protection. I've had Se doms jump in to defend me when people started pushing me around or harassing me.

I do find myself respecting people who use their power to offer me protection. Like I remembered during my childhood days, I used to get bullied by some classmates for being "different". And then I have this classmate of mine who would always jump to my rescue. They are quite popular in school too, the type who is very likeable and make friends easily everywhere they go, they would always help to speak up for me whenever anyone tries to bully me, haha. I appreciate that so much and I didn't forget their kindness toward me. I think the only thing I'm unconvinced right now is being a Te PoLR, I'm not sure if Te is my PoLR, because I think I'm quite good at using Te? How do I tell whether I value Ti or Te? Maybe you can use some Te on me and I see how I react to it? xD

There is also an ability to predict situations of power struggle, which allows one to slip away unnoticed, avoid direct confrontation, or talk one's way out of a potentially violent situation. I can tell what someone's tipping or boiling point is.

Yes I can recognize people's boiling point. I often find myself trying to slip out of conflicts for this reason, because I can often sense a potentially violent situation coming up from the conflict. My survival instincts are pretty strong and I can easily sense danger coming from my environment and I often maneuver my way out of those situations.

[ooo]

"Explain these things to me” “Demonstrate these things to me, give me the facts.” “What methods did you use? What are the statistics to support what you are demonstrating? Who told you of this fact? Who are you? Who gave you the authority to talk about psychology? Are you a psychologist?”

This actually sounds like a nightmare to me but it expresses the idea veeery well, because this (to me) sounds even worse!: “How do I look today? I look good! I look the way I want to look.” “I know what I am supposed to do” "We have discussed and I have already decided"

These are very awful examples but express one idea very well: Te is about data, Se about facts, one "thinks", the other "does", their duals then must contain a EII insight for Te, and a IEI abstraction for Se..

[Skepsis]

I do find myself respecting people who use their power to offer me protection. Like I remembered during my childhood days, I used to get bullied by some classmates for being "different". And then I have this classmate of mine who would always jump to my rescue. They are quite popular in school too, the type who is very likeable and make friends easily everywhere they go, they would always help to speak up for me whenever anyone tries to bully me, haha. I appreciate that so much and I didn't forget their kindness toward me. I think the only thing I'm unconvinced right now is being a Te PoLR, I'm not sure if Te is my PoLR, because I think I'm quite good at using Te? How do I tell whether I value Ti or Te? Maybe you can use some Te on me and I see how I react to it? xD




Yes I can recognize people's boiling point. I often find myself trying to slip out of conflicts for this reason, because I can often sense a potentially violent situation coming up from the conflict. My survival instincts are pretty strong and I can easily sense danger coming from my environment and I often maneuver my way out of those situations.

I don't think there is an easy way to determine the value. Te use manifests differently between the types that value Te. An ILI may appear Te polr to an LSE, for example. This is the same with those who do not value Te. Many of these types may appear Te polr, or close to it by types that value Te. It really boils down to perspective.

I prefer to look at the larger picture of the personality profile. What is it the elements are trying to say about the individual? I think with Te polr, what matters more is the strong value of Fe. It might not always be present like an Fe dominant, but overall, atmosphere and emotionality seem to be preferred to logic, reason, facts, etc. Sometimes the difference is subtle, other times not. Look at how you present information to others, and how you prefer they present them to you. Also, look at your interests, your goals, what you are willing to do to reach them, how you react to interpersonal conflict.

One example was when I was in high school and an uncle of mine took me to his Baptist church. During the sermon the preacher mentioned that dinosaurs and humans lived alongside one another the earth was 10,000 years old because the bible said so, blah, blah blah. When we returned to my uncle's house, I brought up to my cousin that the preacher was wrong because of x, y, and z. This started a lively debate with my uncle. Basically, no amount of charisma and smiling will change facts and laws about nature. Scientific theories and laws are rational and empirical and hold more intellectual weight to opinion, feelings, tradition, and religious dogma.

Take your time figuring yourself out. You have a lifetime......however long I cannot say, but neither can you, haha

[Olimpia]

In the most basic sense, is about Logical Information and its proper implementation; is about Energetic Force and its proper implementation.
Thinking is like a Brain, whereas Sensing is like a Body. Mind vs Matter.

It won't be easy to distinguish between which of the IMs you "seek", because as an INFx you are incredibly weak in both, your Seeking function is outside of your conscious observation, and your Dual is strong in both IMs, so on an unconscious level you expect someone to be good at both.

I haven't encountered anyone so far who could firmly state they were "seeking" a specific IM based on their own impression; only those who were mistyped (imo) could. It's mostly those people who consciously "like" a specific IM, so based on that they type it as their "seeking", but that's not how it works.

The easiest way to figure it out, is to figure out your Ego functions – your Seeking will fall into place automatically, thanks to Model A.
Again, it is incredibly difficult to type the Seeking because it is so unconscious.

Figure out whether you are Fi (lead) and Ne (creative) Ego , or Ni (lead) and Fe (creative) Ego.
Imagine you are in a group of people. What would you focus on more: Who seems close(r) to whom: , or the general emotional atmosphere: ?

Could you be mistaken for an LII on the outside, in real life? Or for an SEI?
An EII's Lookalike is LII: thanks to Creative and Role, EIIs can "look like" an LII when you meet them and don't know them too well. Basically, an EII will showcase and/or (half-hearted) mostly. Whereas for an IEI, their Lookalike is SEI, thanks to Creative and Role. In a superficial or early encounter, they'll mostly showcase and/or (half-hearted) .

Another way to look at it, is to figure out which of the IMs is more of a "tool" for you, and which ones are who you are and you can't help but use them. If your "tools" are Fe and Ni, meaning you can use them if you really had to, then you are more likely EII. If your "tools" are Fi and Ne, then you are more likely IEI. Basically, if you consciously have to tell yourself you are going to try to influence the emotional atmosphere for the better now, because that way you can get your ideas better across, you are more likely not Fe ego and EII instead. For an Fe ego, Fe itself is "it", whereas for someone who does not value Fe, it is more a means to a desired end.

Etc. etc.

[dot]

In the most basic sense, is about Logical Information and its proper implementation; is about Energetic Force and its proper implementation.
Thinking is like a Brain, whereas Sensing is like a Body. Mind vs Matter.

It won't be easy to distinguish between which of the IMs you "seek", because as an INFx you are incredibly weak in both, your Seeking function is outside of your conscious observation, and your Dual is strong in both IMs, so on an unconscious level you expect someone to be good at both.

I haven't encountered anyone so far who could firmly state they were "seeking" a specific IM based on their own impression; only those who were mistyped (imo) could. It's mostly those people who consciously "like" a specific IM, so based on that they type it as their "seeking", but that's not how it works.

The easiest way to figure it out, is to figure out your Ego functions – your Seeking will fall into place automatically, thanks to Model A.
Again, it is incredibly difficult to type the Seeking because it is so unconscious.

Figure out whether you are Fi (lead) and Ne (creative) Ego , or Ni (lead) and Fe (creative) Ego.
Imagine you are in a group of people. What would you focus on more: Who seems close(r) to whom: , or the general emotional atmosphere: ?

Could you be mistaken for an LII on the outside, in real life? Or for an SEI?
An EII's Lookalike is LII: thanks to Creative and Role, EIIs can "look like" an LII when you meet them and don't know them too well. Basically, an EII will showcase and/or (half-hearted) mostly. Whereas for an IEI, their Lookalike is SEI, thanks to Creative and Role. In a superficial or early encounter, they'll mostly showcase and/or (half-hearted) .

Etc. etc.

Well after reading about Se I am pretty sure that it is what I am seeking, I always loved Se unconsciously and there is a certain feel to it. I do think if you are very self-aware you can feel what your seeking functions actually feels like in real life when it manifests itself. It actually isn't so unconscious for me. Se makes me all tingly when I encounter it, but probably because I met enough duals and semi-duals to know what it is like to encounter dominant Se. It is not as unconscious as you think, because when you meet people with your seeking function you will know based on your natural reactions.

Also I do not think EIIs are always confused as LIIs (when you meet a Ti dom it will become pretty obvious in my opinion.. very different to Fi doms) or IEIs as SEIs (some more girly IEIs could be mistaken for SEIs.. but I never met someone who would have confused me for an SEI, nor would I ever confuse myself as one).. depends on the subtype and other things like enneagram and instinct that can make you look differently, I would simply go by quadra values. Delta and Beta are super different.. and so am I compared to most EIIs I met. EIIs are drier, much more peaceful, calm and collected etc. I also noticed they are better at listening to people most of the time than me.. or at least take interaction much more seriously. They definitely aren't as silly humour-wise as the typical Fe-user.. they are Fe ignoring after all.

[ooo]

I've always fell for SLE types honestly, and they didn't look like conflicting situations, conflictors are our opposites such as duals are too. The problems started in the long run, because indeed, we value different things, although in the beginning it looked like it was all that I (or him) wasmissing, but indeed, there was more under the surface.
I can't live all my time with someone pushing me to do-do-do, I very much prefer someone who makes me think-think-think

[Skepsis]

I've always fell for SLE types honestly, and they didn't look like conflicting situations, conflictors are our opposites such as duals are too. The problems started in the long run, because indeed, we value different things, although in the beginning it looked like it was all that I (or him) wasmissing, but indeed, there was more under the surface.
I can't live all my time with someone pushing me to do-do-do, I very much prefer someone who makes me think-think-think

Personally, I don't need help with thinking. I do really well on my own. I do, however, need little nudges and fire lit beneath my feet from time to time. It is needed even if I don't really want to get moving. An object at rest tends to stay at rest, unless a force is applied, haha

[Skepsis]

Personally, I don't need help with thinking. I do really well on my own. I do, however, need little nudges and fire lit beneath my feet from time to time. It is needed even if I don't really want to get moving. An object at rest tends to stay at rest, unless a force is applied, haha

I suppose it is Te that keeps me steadily more productive than a Te polr. I do not need help here from others either.

[ooo]

Personally, I don't need help with thinking. I do really well on my own. I do, however, need little nudges and fire lit beneath my feet from time to time. It is needed even if I don't really want to get moving. An object at rest tends to stay at rest, unless a force is applied, haha

Hmm, I don't either actually, I'd need more someone who makes me do, ironically. But if that were to happen constantly I'd just freak out. Of course "thinking" and "doing" are rather wrong definitions... but somehow.. haha

[Skepsis]

Ask how Se manifests in you. EII and LII are polr because it stands in opposition to their principles. It presents weakly. Se seeking means you suck at it. You are aware of this and appreciate help, but do not have strong principles that would stand in the way of seeking.

[ooo]

I suppose it is Te that keeps me steadily more productive than a Te polr. I do not need help here from others either.

lol exactly... It's a mess

[spaceynyc]

Ask how Se manifests in you. EII and LII are polr because it stands in opposition to their principles. It presents weakly. Se seeking means you suck at it. You are aware of this and appreciate help, but do not have strong principles that would stand in the way of seeking.

I like this.

I'm definitely Se seeking, i'm not in opposition to it but I am garbage at it

trying to figure out how i'm in opposition of Te

[spaceynyc]

"Explain these things to me” “Demonstrate these things to me, give me the facts.” “What methods did you use? What are the statistics to support what you are demonstrating? Who told you of this fact? Who are you? Who gave you the authority to talk about psychology? Are you a psychologist?”

This actually sounds like a nightmare to me but it expresses the idea veeery well, because this (to me) sounds even worse!: “How do I look today? I look good! I look the way I want to look.” “I know what I am supposed to do” "We have discussed and I have already decided"

These are very awful examples but express one idea very well: Te is about data, Se about facts, one "thinks", the other "does", their duals then must contain a EII insight for Te, and a IEI abstraction for Se..

for me its the opposite the person with the Te quotes makes me wanna slap the mess out of them

The Se person sounds cool to me because they get to the point and they are sure of themselves

[ooo]

Yes I understand that, I'd be turned off by both attitudes... eh. In my life I tend to be drawn by the latter though, and that's even why I am very attracted by Se types... but my experience is that I value much more a mental bond, that is far more more present within a rational Fi/Te relationship, instead of an irrational one. I'm drawn to Se, but I couldn't live with them :/
This actually makes typings all more complex..

[ooo]

Hmm, Te seeking would mean to suck in gathering external data and phenomena? Such as taking all for good like a happy polyanna, or even to take all kind of conspiracies and whatnot for valid? That's so me eheh... why does the best solution to Te seekers seems to be: reading? Are our duals actually books? This is so sad tbh... maybe UPD was right.

[Aylen]

I haven't encountered anyone so far who could firmly state they were "seeking" a specific IM based on their own impression; only those who were mistyped (imo) could. It's mostly those people who consciously "like" a specific IM, so based on that they type it as their "seeking", but that's not how it works.

Well, in hindsight it is quite easy to see if you connect the dots. Kind of similar to looking over a lifetime to figure out instinct stacking. The more life experience the better. I remember my EII sister being more eager to please my ILI step dad than I was. I found his requests boring in my teens. He gave my sister a task to organize all his books (he had lots!). She dutifully spent hours doing it. I knew she was kind of overwhelmed but she did a really good job overall. I took one look at the boxes and went to my room and listened to music until she was done for the day so we could go out. It took her a month to do it all and I never helped. I didn't feel bad either because she didn't ask for help. I would have if she asked, reluctantly. He had her do it because he knew she would learn something from it. He knew I was different than her. He usually didn't bother with teaching me to be more efficient at that age because he knew I just didn't care. He did teach me things but he used different methods. One thing I admired about him is he recognized it wasn't just laziness on my part. He knew I responded to something different.

Another example of some awareness (could be mostly subconscious) of what one may be seeking is when my sister, my friend and I met my sister's first husband. We were all still pretty young. He said he was equally attracted to us physically so he logically considered which one of us would make a good wife, be willing and able to take care of his home and child (kid was 2 years old). He quickly crossed my friend and I off his list. He thought we were too flighty/fickle for him. He felt my sister was the most patient, kind and considerate person he had ever met. She listened to him. She showed the most personal interest in his life and was very supportive from the start. He ate that up.

He told my sister this later in their relationship and for some reason it didn't bother her. I would have been very upset by such a revelation. I find it funny though that he thought he had a choice in the matter when it came to me. I did not even consider him a potential romantic interest. I thought he was interesting but he did nothing for me even though he did have a powerful presence and respect in the community. He seemed more boring to me even though he had a "tough" image. It seemed more businesslike image, less spontaneous and fun. He also liked fishing for hours which my sister didn't mind. He was controlling in a way I found really unappealing. Very traditional too in relationships. He thought I didn't show him respect so we maintained a distance the whole time they were together. I mean I understand respect but he expected it in a very personal Fi seeking way. I did respect him on some level just for being good to me and helping me out when I got in any trouble. I just didn't show it the way he expected it. He thought I was "ungrateful". I was, grateful, in my own way.

Edit: The spoiler part could also be a rationality vs irrationality thing since I feel that those interested in me valued my irrationality in the socionics sense.

Typical Characteristics

Rationals

1. Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early
2. Are more often rigid and stubborn
3. Do not like to change their decisions
4. Tend to finish what they started.
5. Usually have stiff movements.
6. Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.
7. Low stress tolerance.

Irrationals

1. Tend to wait and see, more spontaneous
2. Are more often flexible and tolerant.
3. Change their decisions frequently.
4. Tend to start new things without finishing them.
5. Usually have gentle movements.
6. Usually more 'democratic' leadership style.
7. High stress tolerance.

[Olimpia]

Yes, in retrospect, you could be able "to connect the dots" as you said, @Aylen.

What I was trying to get at is the constant feeling of "seeking" any particular IM in the present moment. I don't know anyone who actually consciously feels that way all the time and is correctly typed. You "are" your first function, and your Seeking is the opposite to that, so it's going to be rare to ever feel like "seeking" it when you constantly view the world from your first function... It's difficult to explain. But basically, a focus on the IM of your first function automatically cancels out a focus on its complementary opposite, especially when it is weak and unconscious. You cannot be both "Ni-ing" and consciously focusing on Se at the same time. Same for Fi and Te. Etc.

At the most you might be feeling like "something is missing" in your life without knowing really what it is, when there is no one in your life who provides you with your DS. And you might have this feeling of "something missing" when you get together with someone, and something about their personality seems mysteriously lacking in something for you. But this "something missing" is very vague and insubstantial, and it could apply to other things that are not type related. In romantic relationships, it could be as simple as you not being physically attracted to the other person – not everything that feels "lacking" or feels "attractive" is going to be a lack of or presence of your DS.

So at the end of the day, the best method of typing your DS is typing your Ego functions, in my opinion.

[The Reality Denialist]

Hmm... one EII wanted to know how I use analytical scale and I was like can we just leave this topic.

[Aylen]

Yes, in retrospect, you could be able "to connect the dots" as you said, @Aylen.

What I was trying to get at is the constant feeling of "seeking" any particular IM in the present moment. I don't know anyone who actually consciously feels that way all the time and is correctly typed. You "are" your first function, and your Seeking is the opposite to that, so it's going to be rare to ever feel like "seeking" it when you constantly view the world from your first function... It's difficult to explain. But basically, a focus on the IM of your first function automatically cancels out a focus on its complementary opposite, especially when it is weak and unconscious. You cannot be both "Ni-ing" and consciously focusing on Se at the same time. Same for Fi and Te. Etc.

At the most you might be feeling like "something is missing" in your life without knowing really what it is, when there is no one in your life who provides you with your DS. And you might have this feeling of "something missing" when you get together with someone, and something about their personality seems mysteriously lacking in something for you. But this "something missing" is very vague and insubstantial, and it could apply to other things. In romantic relationships, it could be as simple as you not being physically attracted to the other person – not everything that feels "lacking" or feels "attractive" is going to be a lack of or presence of your DS.

So at the end of the day, the best method of typing your DS is typing your Ego functions, in my opinion.

Yeah, I would not have been able to pinpoint this at the time in this way. I probably would have stared blankly if asked and thought it was because that stuff was mundane so that was why I could not respond in the way expected and other things were fun/exciting which got me motivated. I do not have a constant awareness of seeking anything but I could feel somewhat restless, or something is missing, (4) when I am lacking stimulation. Knowing socionics gave me a framework to put it into, in hindsight. I would not use dual seeking to type myself at all. It is one of the last things I tried to correlate after joining the forum. I had a vague awareness when reading the different types that some were not very appealing and other types were more my type.

[Tigerfadder]

How do I tell the difference between these two?

I've always thought that I'm an IEI since I've always had a great respect for authority figures and I heard this is Se-seeking, but now I'm not sure if I'm a Te PoLR anymore, because I'm currently working in a heavy Te environment with an LIE and LSE as my boss and I haven't felt any conflictor vibes with them so far. I'm actually quite sure of their type because both of them are very stoic and unemotional in the way they speak and present themselves. The LSE comes across as a bit more gentler and softer than the LIE, while the LIE comes across as quite firm and assertive, but both of them have the same stoic and unemotional manner in the way they speak and present themselves. My LSE boss haven't spoken any unkind words to me so far, and I remembered the first time I saw her, I actually found her quite approachable. And I noticed how my other LIE boss would often speak to me in a gentle tone, despite how he is usually a very loud and assertive person.

Now if I'm an IEI, shouldn't I clash with them since Te is my PoLR? But why do I not feel any conflictor vibes with them at all? Or could I be an EII instead? How do I tell the difference between Te seeking and Se seeking?

Do you have love for Si? Even negative sensations are those of more value to you than to avoid?

[dot]

lol! This sounds exactly like how my EII sister and I were when we were growing up. My sister loved to be the little helper and would go out of her way to dutifully do tasks for our family members, whereas I could not care less and just went off in my room and did my own thing. Now that my mom is dating an LIE, my sister has become his little protege, listens to him and does all the things he asks of her. When he first started dating my mom he wanted to do the same with me by being my "mentor" and taking me under his wing (he even wanted to pay for my schooling so I could work for him), but I was completely uninterested in doing so. My sister on the other hand took the schooling he offered and works for him part time now.

Unfortunately, my family did see it as laziness on my part and I was often shamed for being "lazy" by not being as diligent and helpful as my sister was while growing up. :/

My mom would often joke that my sister would do something for her as soon as she asked, whereas she had to constantly nag me to do things for her lol

@Aylen @Starfall I can relate so much! I was always called ungrateful.. I had to learn how to actively engage more and do more stuff for my parents.. just like you my gratefulness is rather internal.. not much of a deed-doer love language wise. I never realised how I came across to other people (lack of Te and weak Se I guess) when it came to my inactivity. Once I do deeds for others and SHOW them what I am doing people do not comment on it as much as before anymore..

[ooo]

I can relate to the role of the ungrateful black sheep in my family too, especially for helping them (not) with practical things. I know IEIs instead who are always willing to follow the mood flow of their environment... in family maybe less, but still so to not appear in too much of a bad light... isn't that actually what Fe is about?

[dot]

I can relate to the role of the ungrateful black sheep in my family too, especially for helping them (not) with practical things. I know IEIs instead who are always willing to follow the mood flow of their environment... in family maybe less, but still so to not appear in too much of a bad light... isn't that actually what Fe is about?

This has nothing to do with Fe. IEIs are a diverse bunch.. met some petty normal 'basic girl' IEIs and a few freaky ones.. depends on the individual. Being a black sheep might rather be related to being an e4. Btw you should definitely focus on quadra.. Beta or Delta.. how do you get along with EIEs or IEEs? I really understand where EIEs are coming from.. even though they are extraverts we share the same ego functions, so I still feel we are pretty similar in many ways. EIIs and IEIs might look similar on the surface, since they are quasi-identicals.. but are veeeery, veeeery different at the inside actually. IEIs aren't as empathetic or goody-two-shows as people paint them, they also have a bit of a cruel beta streak at times. Beta NFs and Delta NFs are very different after all!
Just because I am a Fe user doesn't mean I always keep things light/ a good atmosphere.. I am not Fi ignoring.. in fact IEIs have higher unconscious and unvalued Fi than Fe. Also Fe in Beta is more dramatic than the light version in Alpha. Much more radical and dramatic.. not necessarily nice and happy.

[Hermit Soul]

In the most basic sense, is about Logical Information and its proper implementation; is about Energetic Force and its proper implementation.
Thinking is like a Brain, whereas Sensing is like a Body. Mind vs Matter.

It won't be easy to distinguish between which of the IMs you "seek", because as an INFx you are incredibly weak in both, your Seeking function is outside of your conscious observation, and your Dual is strong in both IMs, so on an unconscious level you expect someone to be good at both.

I haven't encountered anyone so far who could firmly state they were "seeking" a specific IM based on their own impression; only those who were mistyped (imo) could. It's mostly those people who consciously "like" a specific IM, so based on that they type it as their "seeking", but that's not how it works.

The easiest way to figure it out, is to figure out your Ego functions – your Seeking will fall into place automatically, thanks to Model A.
Again, it is incredibly difficult to type the Seeking because it is so unconscious.

Figure out whether you are Fi (lead) and Ne (creative) Ego , or Ni (lead) and Fe (creative) Ego.
Imagine you are in a group of people. What would you focus on more: Who seems close(r) to whom: , or the general emotional atmosphere: ?

Could you be mistaken for an LII on the outside, in real life? Or for an SEI?
An EII's Lookalike is LII: thanks to Creative and Role, EIIs can "look like" an LII when you meet them and don't know them too well. Basically, an EII will showcase and/or (half-hearted) mostly. Whereas for an IEI, their Lookalike is SEI, thanks to Creative and Role. In a superficial or early encounter, they'll mostly showcase and/or (half-hearted) .

Another way to look at it, is to figure out which of the IMs is more of a "tool" for you, and which ones are who you are and you can't help but use them. If your "tools" are Fe and Ni, meaning you can use them if you really had to, then you are more likely EII. If your "tools" are Fi and Ne, then you are more likely IEI. Basically, if you consciously have to tell yourself you are going to try to influence the emotional atmosphere for the better now, because that way you can get your ideas better across, you are more likely not Fe ego and EII instead. For an Fe ego, Fe itself is "it", whereas for someone who does not value Fe, it is more a means to a desired end.

Etc. etc.

I think I can be easily mistaken as an LII or ILI irl. I doubt I'd ever get mistaken as an SEI though, because I'm not bubbly enough and I'm a bit too cold and aloof on the outside to be one.. I often had people irl telling me that I need to be more lively, lol. Most of the time, I tend to be very reserved around people irl. Whenever I'm in a new environment for example, I'll often wait for people to approach me, rather than me approaching them. When I'm in a group of people, I don't really focus on the general emotional atmosphere, nor do I focus on who seems closer to who, but I mainly find myself observing people and trying to figure people out. Usually when I meet people for the first time, I'll know whether they are someone whom I want to get closer to, or someone whom I want to avoid.
And then there are some people whom I am neutral about at first, and over time I find myself clashing with them. Hmm and as far as I know, my conscious self hadn't tried to influence the emotional atmosphere around me, so I guess this makes me an IEI then? I might be using Fe all the time without realizing it myself.

Do you have love for Si? Even negative sensations are those of more value to you than to avoid?

I'm not sure if I experience negative sensations much, because I'm not very in tune with my inner sensation in the first place. The only negative sensation that I ever find myself experiencing is when I visit the doctor, lol. I've always had a phobia of injections. Like there was one time during my childhood days when I was in this operating theatre for my allergy, and the doctor was trying to inject this needle into me, but I kept crying non-stop and I kept refusing to let him inject that needle into me and he ended up not being able to get any work done, lol. So I ended up having to go back there again a few weeks later, and this time round, they put me to sleep via nitrous oxide, and after they put me to sleep they injected me and the operation was finally successful haha. Unlike strong sensory types, I'm not very good at dealing with physical pain, and I often go all the way out to avoid dealing with it. I actually find myself dealing with emotional pain much better than physical pain.
You know, if ever a day I end up contracting some terminal illness, I doubt I'll ever visit the doctor for treatment, lol. xD
To me, dying isn't as scary as enduring physical pain. At least when I die, I'd have lost all consciousness and I wouldn't be able to be aware of any physical pain. But when I'm still alive, physical pain is such a torture for me. I guess this is how much I hate the doctors and how much I hate physical pain in general. Also, I consider myself a HSP, so stuff like physical pain and emotional pain often leave a deep impact on me and it tends to take a longer time for those feelings to subside and heal.

[Hermit Soul]

Btw I have a question... Between LSE and SLE, who is more likely to show hostility openly? For example, if they hate you, they will show it openly to you?

Just asking this question because I think I encounter a conflictor of mine last year, this person hates me, and would frequently show hostility toward me and put me down. I'm not sure whether this person is SLE or LSE though. But once I figure out this person's type, I might be able to figure out my own type, lol.

[Stellafera]

I can't live all my time with someone pushing me to do-do-do, I very much prefer someone who makes me think-think-think

I feel like this is a great summary. I tend to be impressed by Te types' assertiveness, but get the feeling like I'm being quizzed for a test I wasn't asked to study for. I imagine that for XII's Se feels like an unwelcome alarm clock constantly ringing. GET UP IT'S TIME TO GO GO GO.

[velveteen]

Btw I have a question... Between LSE and SLE, who is more likely to show hostility openly? For example, if they hate you, they will show it openly to you?

Just asking this question because I think I encounter a conflictor of mine last year, this person hates me, and would frequently show hostility toward me and put me down. I'm not sure whether this person is SLE or LSE though. But once I figure out this person's type, I might be able to figure out my own type, lol.

SLE. But that could just be because I am an EII and most SLEs hate me. They put me down in the same way; by being overtly hostile and making me the butt of every joke, criticise and discredit me to others... half the time I didn't know if it had to do with type or if the ones I have encountered were just flamin' misogynists.

The LSEs hostility tends to be more passive aggressive. They'll troll you in a smug way, it's not as intimidating. It's actually somewhat naive.