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Thread: Who do you prefer as a partner or a friend- kindred or business partner?

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    inabox's Avatar
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    Default Who do you prefer as a partner or a friend- kindred or business partner?

    The title of the thread is self explanatory ; I know my threads seem redundant but in true IEE manner, I have trouble curbing my enthusiasm when it comes to trying to understand how people work.

    I will elaborate on my own experiences by tomorrow, hopefully.

    However, meanwhile, I'd love to hear about experiences with your kindred and business partners; and why you might prefer one as a friend, the other as a lover or heck, even something else. Have a good day, people.

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    I am an IEI-Ni and have an ILI-Ni best friend. I barely had ISFps as close friends. Like we get along well, but since my focus is more on Ni.. dynamism, intensity and drive is very important to me in close relationships/when it comes to getting along with people. I do have two SEI friends right now and my former neighbour was one and I really like them. But a guy of that type would probably not turn me on or appeal to me.. Not sure about other victims, like I'd probably prefer them after the aggressors, but in the end I want someone to take control of the situation.. the other way round gets very exhausting for me.
    Last edited by dot; 02-21-2017 at 06:50 PM.

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    inabox's Avatar
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    I'm going to elaborate on my own experience with my business partners and kindreds.

    My business partners (of either subtypes) are people I actually understand well. I believe I get along better with SEE-Fi than SEE-Se in general even I have more SEE-Se friends (this may be because SEE-Fi is also less common *shrugs*). SEE-Fis place less emphasis on Se and are rather reminiscent of Delta NFs (sort of how I think Fi-IEEs like myself may sometimes come off like Gamma SFs until you see how fuzzy wuzzy we are) until a matter of their own interest comes up and they handle it like aggressors.

    When SEEs work hard, persevere and accomplish things, I admire them deeply and look up to them; the admiration is usually mutual. However, their Ti polr in work places get on my nerves a lot (ie not caring about they fit into the hierarchy of a system; ISFjs can do this too); like dude you are lazy and unskilled, stop trying to compensate for it by making your subordinates and colleagues do YOUR WORK; they can be shameless a-holes that way -_- . Also, wow, the whining about working, yeesh, it offends my Si-Te valuing. Look, you're (the Gamma SFs I'm referring to, not Gamma SFs at large) not Gamma NTs that you have the intelligence to properly delegate work so that you can afford to do nothing; and even they work 'hard' from time to time; stop being irresponsible and complaining about your work load. Also, they, can try to compete with you even when such things make them look cheap and stupid (tl;dr about past experience: dude, you're not even in my league, who are you kidding? I had a senior at work who would try to make fun of my 'mistakes' in front of her other colleagues when I was an intern; this was because I was interested in a coworker whom she liked but kept on a leash because he was poor and less good looking than the guy she was committed to; keep in mind that she was not known for being good at work and since she flunked her past professional exams, she spent a part of her internship doing placements with me, where she was known for being irregular and lazy; and she wasn't that 'senior' to me, if that makes sense; meh, I've seen similar ridiculous behaviour in flirty and deceptive IEEs) .

    Annoyance at the foibles of my business partners aside, I find I have similarities with my SEE counterparts. We're both rather giving, them more than me. We, more often not, try to think well of people and get along with them; we value forgiveness and both interpersonal and intrapersonal harmony (4D Fe can be lovely <3 <3 ) . We also have a deep dedication to our personal goals in life, even though with Delta NFs, this may not be very apparent. We also understand how the other has slip-ups with Ti polr and are forgiving of each other in this respect.

    A very good friend of mine was ousted from her friends' circle by a Ni-EIE ; around the same time I was ousted from my circle by a Si-ESFj. I've seen that there is something rather clumsy about demonstratives: it is not backed by us valuing our polrs, ie the corresponding function of the demonstrative. SEEs and myself can be fun in groups but when we do express our agendas, we can do it in a way that can gain as enemies and we may not even known it since we don't notice 'Ti-related' issues tbh.

    Also, interestingly enough, so far, I actually have more to talk about with SEE-Ses (I'm Fi-IEE as I mentioned previously) than with SEE-Fis. The latter is lovely but for some reason, despite our genuine interest in each other, we have trouble 'gelling' together.

    Now, if you're wondering who I would rather have as a friend, I'd pick SEEs. ILEs are lovely but I need to have emotional support in my friendships; SEEs are great to sympathize and empathize with.

    However, I ... can't ever be with an aggressor, tbh; I've only found my conflictors (Ti-LSIs, not Se-LSIs though) mildly attractive in the past. I know ideally the romance of caregivers mesh exceptionally well with me; but outside of them, I've been attracted to victims (although the older I get the more 'meh' I feel about them *shrugs* ; they have this weakness that I have I found myself recoiling from ) and infantiles (Fi-EIIs are appealing even though socionics tells me that I would have more balance with Ne-EIIs but I find the latter to be ... very lazy in a way that is repulsive; and the occasional alpha NT can be sexeh). Aggressors find me to be too immature and weak as a partner and I think of them as being too 'extra'. Their displays of 'sensory strength' is something I find unappealing at best and distasteful at worst, which is not the case with caretakers.

    As for ILEs ... well, I generally like Ne-ILEs more than Ti-ILEs (I haven't been able to hit it off with the Ti-ILEs I've known in real life for some reason; maybe it's because of incompatibility with enneagram instincts). Alpha NTs make decent friends and I enjoy hanging out with them. They enjoy the Ne I throw at them and vice versa; they're one of the few people, I'd love to explore the world with. To deviate a little, it's interesting to note, that I actually seem to get along better with LIIs, even though, they're my supervisors and I see the same with my kindreds (ie they are drawn to their EII friends and vice versa); it's probably because of similar outlooks and mental processes.

    The Ne-ILEs I've known can be cute; they get flustered when I do hospitable things for them when they come over. My Ne-ILE brother in law gets a little embarrassed when I'm nice to him (eg we just got some great food, let me turn on the AC for you, you must be feeling uncomfortable; I'm so happy you accomplished XYZ, am very impressed etc); I have good use of my Fe demonstrative and I understand it's something he wishes he had better use of. Similarly, I appreciate their deftness with Te. Ne-ILEs are also adorable in that I can take care of them (boosted Si, yo) and they'll really like it; they are also more equipped to handle their polr and place less emphasis on their creative; thus my HORRIBLE lack of Ti tends to get on their nerves less and they appreciate the benefits of having someone who likes using Si from time to time. Perhaps, there are Fi-IEEs out there, who enjoy taking care of their Ne-ILE family members and partners; and both parties find the experience rewarding.

    Relationships between Ne doms seems to be the rarest among kindred relationships; I have read many, many accounts of happy partnerships (marriages etc) between Si doms, Se doms and Ni doms (a close friend of mine, who is Ni-ILI, had a Te-ILI dad and a Ni-IEI mom, who were together until her dad passed away). I've also recently read about a couple who recently got married: the lady was Fi-SEE and the man was Ti-SLE. Ne doms aren't always known for being deeply committed to relationships; and this is often seen in younger Ne doms. Also being intuitive, you know that there's something better out there (a partner with complimentary s romance style and temperament) so it would make you less interested in remaining in a relationship with someone who seems to have little respect for something that is an integral part of you.

    ILEs can think they can say whatever they want without consequence BECAUSE OH COME ON BE RATIONAL IT WAS A JOKE; ironically though, if you don't care about one of their special causes, they'll try to Fe manipulate you (dude, who the fuck is going to take your 'humanity' seriously when you have so little respect for other people's sentiments and morals). Also, their understanding of ethics is often mind numbingly stupid. Delta NFs get a lot of flack for many reasons (much bitching, such whining, wow) and ironically, we don't have that many complaints against other types and I recently realized that it's because more often, we don't give a shit; we have better things to do and we do them.

    Back to the point: their outlook on interpersonal harmony can be laughably simple. No, sweetheart, people don't need to always keep their voices down they are arguing about important and opposing viewpoints; unlike you, some of us live in the real world where if certain attitudes don't change from a grassroot level, then we're all screwed. They also have a very inconsistent morality; Fi is thought to be useless function until you realize that it's one of the many things that keep people we love, close to us. IEEs who have 4D Fe but prefer Fi know this very well: you must love consistently to gain love consistently.

    I will bring up a somewhat related topic, now. I do find myself often having more respect for Alpha NTs than for other rationals. Remember how I said that Fi appears to be a very useless function to the outer world? Well, two of my favourite shows are about the troubles ILE protagonists face due to their polr (Bojack Horseman; Crazy Ex Girlfriend); it's notable that the creators of both shows are also ILEs. To see artists being so truthful about their weaknesses (the creators have said the lead characters were somewhat based on themselves) is moving. I do believe that Alpha NTs and Delta NFs believe in change and progress of the self, even if it's in very different ways. I appreciate the kinship between us for that reason; their bravery towards addressing their own polrs (heck, I think even Tina Fey who is thought to be LII addressed her issues with being Se polr as Liz Lemon from 30 Rock; who was based on herself) inspires me to face up to my own.

    I have noticed one thing in every healthy type: instead of attempting to completely diminish the role of polrs in their lives or be constantly bitter about the polr and its users, they make peace with their shortcomings; they acknowledge their problems and try to deal with it in a healthy way; and it's often more than enough.

    I'm thinking long term relationships and marriages are rarely easy between ILEs and IEEs; and I do believe that they are rare in the first place. However, I have read of a few accounts of happy marriages between ILEs and IEEs. I suppose, if both of them respect each other's weaknesses and make allowances for it, the relationship will be rewarding for both parties. Relationship between kindreds is said to be educational and I agree. I get along far better with my ILE friends now than when I did when I was younger; these days if they're uncomfortable with a faux pas I made regarding a Ti related matter, instead of becoming defensive and hurt, I will try to understand their point and apologize if necessary. They will do similar things. They're also more appreciative of my Fi creative (the fact as an older Fi-IEE, I deftly avoid emotional topics that would make them uncomfortable and make attempts to lift their spirits). While there is no dearth of ILEs complaining of our temper tantrums, I've also had the opportunity to read about an ILE or two who noticed that once we stop being upset (which is pretty fast), we are willing to listen to an 'objective perspective' and ameliorate whatever needs to be improved; ILEs have Te demonstrative and when they use it in the right context, we (at least I do) find it to be pretty soothing.

    It's been said that kindred relationship is better for irrationals and business relationships are better for rationals because then there is more psychological balance in the relationships that way. I have to agree. A friend of mine who is Ne-IEE (7w6-9w1-4w3 so/sx) is married to a Se-SEE (8w7-7-2 sx/so) and the arguments and fights they have are on another level; they throw tantrums over stupid sh** and their arguments boil to down one calling the other names; while this is not JUST BECAUSE they are xEEs, their relationship made me a 10000% more sure (before i was only a 100% sure ) about the fact I do want to deal with someone who has Ti-polr in a marriage, knthx. I have enough trouble with my own Ti polr; I DO NOT want to deal with someone else's Ti polr. Honestly, I often learn from the sheer stupidity and aggression that Gamma SFs display at times ("DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME, KIDS"); I'd wager that it may the same for them. Heck, there's a character on Grey's Anatomy who is Se-SEE and her antics make me so pissed off, sometimes; I mentally scream, 'YOU DUMB FUCK, YOU STUPID DUMB FUCK, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING' when she's onscreen.

    To conclude this incomprehensible ramble, I prefer kindreds to business partners in romantic relationships. I like Ne-ILEs but I could see myself having a successful marriage with a Ti-ILE, provided that he had the maturity to respect my Fi (which may as well be rare in Ti-ILEs; being a creative subtype worsens your relationship with your polr) and gave me the space and to learn how to deal with Ti issues. If both parties, have worked on their respective weaknesses and made peace with each others' shortcomings, I could see the relationship working out. Lastly, I've recently been checking out the work of a comedian on youtube, who is Ti-ILE. He demonstrates a lot of 4D Te very smoothly (nommm) and the guy often uses his Si (when he brings up how he deals with his life at home, his work, his pet etc); the fact he has a decent use of Si and heavy use of Te, reminds me of Delta STs ... which is incredibly sexy to say the least.
    Last edited by inabox; 02-22-2017 at 02:55 PM.

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    Hard to say clear cut what I prefer better...the SEI has surprising moments of cruelty, whereas the ILI has surprising moments of empathy and connection with me. The ILI will have more outright conflict, because- in a very general way, ILIs are assholes (thinking type w/fe polr) and they definitely don't have the meditation aspect of SEIs... but it's not that simple because I have gotten very pissed off at SEI manipulating everybody when they are really pissed off at more of a direct target, but they can hide behind diplomacy cuz of their personality. With ILI tho I am often like 'shut the fuck up already and take a chill pill.'

    I hate them both for different reasons lol. =D I don't see myself in a close romantic relationship with either of those types, but can be friends. My close friends are always ILE or other IEIs or SEEs or some other type. Even a few EIIs more than SEI/ILI I think.

    eta: Just realized that I probably think these hiccups in the relationship are 'surprising' because of my own Te polr, everything is connected woooo.

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    I have found them equal; there seems to be a familiarity when interacting with both types as if we're from the same family; we do connect differently but I've been equally intrigued by the variances in perception as with those in rationalization. The similarity stems from us all having to disconnect in order rationalize.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    inabox's Avatar
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    @Bullets ; I'm with you on the ILI needing to take a chill pill.

    It is fascinating how SEIs can turn people against each other and still manage to come out smelling roses, despite being full of shit. Do you ever feel like you see your worst qualities being reflected in your business partner? If you wouldn't mind, what are some of the unpleasant experiences you've had with them?

    On an additional note, I was going to say this in the Superego thread, but I'll say some of it here, both SEIs and ILIs can be so damn oblivious to external facts and the nature of people. With ILIs, it's more apparent; it's fascinating how types that are so smart have difficulty comprehending that human beings are not uniform and nor should they be so (I blame it on 4D Ti without being backed by valuing Fe).
    Last edited by inabox; 02-22-2017 at 02:56 PM.

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    Do you ever feel like you see your worst qualities being reflected in your business partner? If you wouldn't mind, what are some of the unpleasant experiences you've had with them?
    Kinda yeah, we both can see how the other is using Fe in ways that are self serving. I don't agree with the cliche 'Fe is fake, FI is real' meme at all but I do see where it comes from.


    On an additional note, I was going to say this in the Superego thread, but I'll say some of it here, both SEIs and ILIs can be so damn oblivious to external facts and the nature of people.
    Yeah hmm maybe its cuz SEI doesn't pay much attention to Ni, and ILI doesn't pay enough attention to Ne? 'The true insight of nature' can be described as Ne/Ni thing to me maybe.

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    Business partner for me. I've known both irl and I've definitely gotten on better with LSIs than EIIs, probably because of my subtype. In fact, I don't think I've ever had a problem with an LSI before

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    When I ran a business with someone it was with ILI. We did very well. For female friend I would like my semi-dual, LSE. All of my friends who were female LSE I got along with very well. We had an incredible time with creative endeavors and outdoor activities. I've found them to be surprisingly creative and fuel my creativity well. We would be making movies, do voice acting, creative writing projects, etc.

    Also the LSE accepts my inner twisted dark/violent/dry sense of humor. It's like I'm a suppressed Pyromaniac. If we had Pokemon trainer avatars I would be one of the Pyromaniac girls. Stabbity~

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    Last edited by Suzaku; 02-22-2017 at 08:42 PM.

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    Business all day. I have the ideas, they have the willpower. Very silent understanding of our bond due to creative Fi. No rules because same PoLR. Different base functions hence different realms, which can be interesting as an exchange. Also SEEs are hella cute

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    Historically I've had a few very long term friendships with SEEs, where I haven't had any that have been nearly as long with ILEs.

    For a partner, I think I'd probably do better with a compassionate and healthy ILE though, over an SEE, provided it would be possible for us to grow together with regards to our polrs. The intuitive-sensor exchanges every day would keep things interesting. Being around SEEs tires me out quickly I think, I wouldn't be able to be around one every day. I talk to my long term SEE friends pretty infrequently.

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    I am EII, so my kindred is ESI and business partner is LII. I trust the intentions of both types, but I have very little interest in having either of them as a serious partner in either the professional or romantic spheres. If I was forced to choose, I would probably pick ESI, though I think most of my EII friends would disagree (I have two EII friends with LII boyfriends and another EII friend who likes one of our LII mutual friends much more than I do). I think this is because a lot of LIIs are sp/sx, which rubs me the wrong way since I am so/sx.

    I have a couple close ESI friends from my hometown, but we have grown apart due to physical distance and just having very different lives. For whatever reason, I haven't made any close ESI friends in college/grad school. But when I see someone is ESI in a Socionics forum/Facebook group, I do feel a touch of special understanding with them, like we're in the same club or something. I like ESIs' kind of beauty, which is somehow simultaneously sharp and gentle.

    I dislike LIIs due to instinctual incompatibilities and probably daddy issues (my father is LII sp/sx). ;( I just don't like how they provoke anger for fun/endlessly debate pointless things for which there are no answers, or how they can't push effectively for what they want, or how they care too much about eating specific foods or saving money, or how they're excruciatingly socially awkward. They are, on average, very intelligent, and they say some very clever and amusing things, and they are generally good, generous people. Just not my cup of tea. (I feel really bad whenever I post things I don't like about LIIs, because there are some really nice LIIs on this forum, so I want to be really clear that I think this is just my idiosyncratic preference, and I know lots of other people love LIIs.)

    Like @niffer, I like the idea of having a partner who is strong in my PoLR and in whose PoLR I am strong, for mutual growth purposes. I'm scared that an LII would hold me back and I wouldn't be able to rouse him as effectively as an Fe ego or someone with high dimensional Se could.

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