Ideas....Ideas....Ideas... IEE process and non result

[SyrupDeGem]

I know many Ne ego people have great difficulty with putting ideas into practise but perhaps none more so than the IEE. It is though something I would really like to work on/get help with. Sometimes my head is overflowing with great new business ideas/models/theories so much so that I can't sleep or talk normally unless it's about one of said ideas because i'm so excited by whatever it is.

The thing is, I LOVE this, I love the process of it, the excitement, the adaptability. I could probably come up with a million and one ideas for almost anything you give me. I sometimes feel like a one woman think tank.


But that's where it ends, it's where i start to fall...slowly...flat on my face. Because I can keep churning out ideas but they have no-one to manifest them, no place to live and to thrive and be moulded by others. And sometimes this is very frustrating. Idea's are fabulous, but ideas don't pay the bills. Thinking up a great novel and mentally writing a story with elaborate characters and thick twisty plots does not a book publish.


And business models are still just idea's unless you have the actual framework to them. So I can think up all these niches in the market, I can give plenty of ideas to other people too, workable ones, I do the research too... but it's the implementation, the paperwork/programming and etc that lets me down.

I do actually have a business, that's what I do, and it would be much further if I was more together with management and organisation and if i did not keep going off on tangents...and stuck to the model! But I have to have change, variation... or i become restless.

So sometimes it all feels a bit sad, I think I need a business partner.


So.... anyone else identify with this?

[Reficulris]

yup, with all of it.

I love to think up great ideas. I even usually write them down into a business plan of some sorts but than I usually don't really like the implementation of the ideas so either I give them away for someone else to do something with it or I shelve them in my bboi (big book of ideas).

I think for me working with an SLE helps, he's always prepped to do something so he basically takes whatever I think up and starts networking and implementing untill it stands. Than he gets bored and lets it decay, but at least the thing was in existance briefly

I think we (Ne Ego's) need to be surrounded by implementers and controlers to give our ideas a more practical application and longer lifecycle. Working in startup community helps with the implementers, maybe getting some people to actually take those start-ups and build them into nice monsterous mega-corporations (LIE's i'm looking at you) might be a good idea, but I abhor having to deal with all the stupid procedures and stuff...

so yeah

[anndelise]

I identify. Poor Richard tries to implement some of them for me, like when he made shelves for the deck railing so I could garden up there where there was sun. But then I wanted to garden on the ground, so we cut down the trees to let sun in. And then after prepping the yard for a garden, I finally admitted to myself how much I detested gardening. I'd been fighting with myself over the ideal vs the detesting.

I love creating stories, and why a character turned out a certain way, or did what they did, etc. But I don't actually like to write.

I'll get a 'brilliant' idea, then buy a bunch of stuff to implement it with, and then get another 'brilliant' idea for something completely different. It's an expensive and frustrating way to live. I would like to actually accomplish/finish something I've set out to do, but . With Richard's assurances I am starting to just let myself explore, without the pressure of finishing. It's liberating and far more enjoyable, but doesn't pay any bills....and that brings back the pressure..argh.

[Saberstorm]

I think that each Ne type has more capacity for follow through than you might think. Your ideas are not mature enough. You do not really have a workable idea. Do not ever sell yourself short, do not ever believe that some other type does it better. Why are you so weak? Where is your steel? Work, damn it. Do the work.

Programming is hard. Drafting is hard. Networking is hard. It is all work. Grind through it.

[anndelise]

I think that each Ne type has more capacity for follow through than you might think. Your ideas are not mature enough. You do not really have a workable idea. Do not ever sell yourself short, do not ever believe that some other type does it better. Why are you so weak? Where is your steel? Work, damn it. Do the work.

Programming is hard. Drafting is hard. Networking is hard. It is all work. Grind through it.

Iow, be less ENp and more J, dammit!

[Ron Mexico]

I think that each Ne type has more capacity for follow through than you might think. Your ideas are not mature enough. You do not really have a workable idea. Do not ever sell yourself short, do not ever believe that some other type does it better. Why are you so weak? Where is your steel? Work, damn it. Do the work.

Programming is hard. Drafting is hard. Networking is hard. It is all work. Grind through it.

This is the most sense made in this thread.

[anndelise]

I was asked what kind of ideas, so I typed this out, but then the question got revoked. I'm still going to post it here, though.

 

Too many to list, heh. But since i have been going through my stuff decluttering, I'll list a few of the ideas I had that led to some of these boxes of stuff.

2nd language. I've always wanted to learn a second language, and after living in el paso tx with a mexican stepmother and step sisters and 6 years of classes in school, I never got anywhere. So I tried different languages, danish, norwegian, italian, etc. I finally came across a most excellent spanish learning program. Man, this thing was awesome!! He taught you some everyday verbs and some sentence patterns that he gradually builds off of, allowing you to choose the objects and such that suit your lifestyle. It was like this whole mix and match thing building off each other. An example of his ideas is that instead of learning all the conjugations at once, confusing the brain by running through the list of conjugations for each verb, you learn the I form of each verb first, since that is what a new learner is most likely to use. I need, i want, i like, etc. and the brain starts picking up the pattern that when referring to I or me, you use this conjugation. Then practicing all the you forms together, do you want? Do you need? Do you like? Etc. again, the brain more easily picking up this particular pattern for this particular context. He had many other useful ideas like that. But it was only in spanish. What if you took the same method he used, but used a different language for it? Like german, or italian, or danish, etc? (Saturday I finally got rid of the last of my language books and notes, into the garbage and books to used bookstores and/or friends.)

Fun with Fitness. I love things that can be mix and matched and recombined with other things. I also like to play rather than work out. And i like variety and novelty. When my daughter was younger and I was homeschooling her, I was looking up a fitness program for us that we could do together. I came across a list of skills and concepts that are used in a variety of sports. Like dribbling a ball with hands or with feet, aiming at a target (moving targets, stationary targets), etc. Wouldn't it be cool to have a fitness program set up so that you take some skills to build off of, roll a dice or pick a card for the skills, and recombine them into a game? You might be working on the same skill type, but in a different context. Every day a new game, or new skills, or a different combination. (I still have the list, and kinda still want to put this together for other homescholing parents. Whether i get to it or not is a different story, as I counted last night and I have 19 project ideas listed, and still have a room full of boxes to go through to see what stays/goes.)

Biofeedback for helping physically disabled/injured to improve their fitness despite their obstacle.

Neurofeedback devices for helping reduce stress, gain more focus, useful for adhd, goal setting, meditation, hypnotherapy, etc. I have a hypnotherapy certificate and it wouldn't take much to get licensed, and think of the people I could help if I got certified in some neurofeedback options too! (I also had a bunch of NLP stuff that I finally got rid of last year.)

Yarn crafting. I like to learn new things. My daughter wanted to learn how to crochet, so I taught her. Then I came across some amigurumi books and got a bunch of those. Crocheting critters that she can sell. She loved that. But Im not very creative in crocheting faces and clothes, etc. Also, she wanted to try knitting boards. So I got us each a set of knitting boards. She made hats and purses. I learned the basics and then quickly got bored. So I turned to tunisan crochet. Then weaving. I bought myself a lap weaving loom for my birthday. She liked it, so I bought her one the same day. And a bunch of books, and yarn, and signed up with the local weaving guild. Oh, but wouldn't it be cool to learn how to spin my own yarn too? I tried crafting a few different spinners, and even made my own wheel using some plans online. It's not a good wheel, but it was cheaper than buying one. So I practiced and fought with the wheel I'd made...and the cats...and bought a bunch of video classes to guide me through it all. I stopped at dying wool. BUT...wouldn't it be cool to be able to say that I made this skirt from fresh off the sheep to finished product? Cleaned the wool myself, combed and carded it myself, spun it myself, wove it myself. How cool would that be!?! But my wheel wasn't fun to work with, so I rented a wheel for a week. Loved it! Totally soothing and meditative to do. I loved it so much that week, that Richard bought me my own wheel. I put the protective coating on it myself, put it together when it was ready, spun a few strands onto it to make sure all worked right. And then had to help my daughter with something else so set it aside....and haven't touched it since.

And this kind of thing goes on and on and on. The website I set up to encourage the community we live in to actually make connections with each other like a community. The garden I put in because I wanted to promote living local and sustainably (me? Yeah right, if I could do it, anyone could). The odd method of gardening I chose...then the odd one I switched to, before quitting gardening all together. The personal labrynth I wanted to set up in an ungardenable portion of our yard. The obstacle course I would still love to set up. The community fitness program. The What Color is Your Parachute miniclass for the local teens here. The really cool visual business plan i found made into a minicourse for the teens and adults in this community. The boxes of plans for a solar oven despite living in a perpetually cloudy area. Oh, the game designing shelves I have. The python programming to maximize use of the ren'py program which can be used to make visual novels, choose your own adventures with scores to track, and dating sims. What about the 'caveman' rpg I wanted to make, complete with heroscape land pieces, miniatures, and a culture building setup?

Seriously, the list goes on and on and on. That was only a portion of one wall in my small living room. And that was just some of the stuff I had kept after two cycles of getting rid of the stuff.

Note: I realize that I am particularly bad about this, and that this doesn't reflect the extent of other NeFi.

[suedehead]

@anndelise

Thanks for sharing that. Helps clear a few things up for me about Ne.

[SyrupDeGem]

I was asked what kind of ideas, so I typed this out, but then the question got revoked. I'm still going to post it here, though.

 

Too many to list, heh. But since i have been going through my stuff decluttering, I'll list a few of the ideas I had that led to some of these boxes of stuff.

2nd language. I've always wanted to learn a second language, and after living in el paso tx with a mexican stepmother and step sisters and 6 years of classes in school, I never got anywhere. So I tried different languages, danish, norwegian, italian, etc. I finally came across a most excellent spanish learning program. Man, this thing was awesome!! He taught you some everyday verbs and some sentence patterns that he gradually builds off of, allowing you to choose the objects and such that suit your lifestyle. It was like this whole mix and match thing building off each other. An example of his ideas is that instead of learning all the conjugations at once, confusing the brain by running through the list of conjugations for each verb, you learn the I form of each verb first, since that is what a new learner is most likely to use. I need, i want, i like, etc. and the brain starts picking up the pattern that when referring to I or me, you use this conjugation. Then practicing all the you forms together, do you want? Do you need? Do you like? Etc. again, the brain more easily picking up this particular pattern for this particular context. He had many other useful ideas like that. But it was only in spanish. What if you took the same method he used, but used a different language for it? Like german, or italian, or danish, etc? (Saturday I finally got rid of the last of my language books and notes, into the garbage and books to used bookstores and/or friends.)

Fun with Fitness. I love things that can be mix and matched and recombined with other things. I also like to play rather than work out. And i like variety and novelty. When my daughter was younger and I was homeschooling her, I was looking up a fitness program for us that we could do together. I came across a list of skills and concepts that are used in a variety of sports. Like dribbling a ball with hands or with feet, aiming at a target (moving targets, stationary targets), etc. Wouldn't it be cool to have a fitness program set up so that you take some skills to build off of, roll a dice or pick a card for the skills, and recombine them into a game? You might be working on the same skill type, but in a different context. Every day a new game, or new skills, or a different combination. (I still have the list, and kinda still want to put this together for other homescholing parents. Whether i get to it or not is a different story, as I counted last night and I have 19 project ideas listed, and still have a room full of boxes to go through to see what stays/goes.)

Biofeedback for helping physically disabled/injured to improve their fitness despite their obstacle.

Neurofeedback devices for helping reduce stress, gain more focus, useful for adhd, goal setting, meditation, hypnotherapy, etc. I have a hypnotherapy certificate and it wouldn't take much to get licensed, and think of the people I could help if I got certified in some neurofeedback options too! (I also had a bunch of NLP stuff that I finally got rid of last year.)

Yarn crafting. I like to learn new things. My daughter wanted to learn how to crochet, so I taught her. Then I came across some amigurumi books and got a bunch of those. Crocheting critters that she can sell. She loved that. But Im not very creative in crocheting faces and clothes, etc. Also, she wanted to try knitting boards. So I got us each a set of knitting boards. She made hats and purses. I learned the basics and then quickly got bored. So I turned to tunisan crochet. Then weaving. I bought myself a lap weaving loom for my birthday. She liked it, so I bought her one the same day. And a bunch of books, and yarn, and signed up with the local weaving guild. Oh, but wouldn't it be cool to learn how to spin my own yarn too? I tried crafting a few different spinners, and even made my own wheel using some plans online. It's not a good wheel, but it was cheaper than buying one. So I practiced and fought with the wheel I'd made...and the cats...and bought a bunch of video classes to guide me through it all. I stopped at dying wool. BUT...wouldn't it be cool to be able to say that I made this skirt from fresh off the sheep to finished product? Cleaned the wool myself, combed and carded it myself, spun it myself, wove it myself. How cool would that be!?! But my wheel wasn't fun to work with, so I rented a wheel for a week. Loved it! Totally soothing and meditative to do. I loved it so much that week, that Richard bought me my own wheel. I put the protective coating on it myself, put it together when it was ready, spun a few strands onto it to make sure all worked right. And then had to help my daughter with something else so set it aside....and haven't touched it since.

And this kind of thing goes on and on and on. The website I set up to encourage the community we live in to actually make connections with each other like a community. The garden I put in because I wanted to promote living local and sustainably (me? Yeah right, if I could do it, anyone could). The odd method of gardening I chose...then the odd one I switched to, before quitting gardening all together. The personal labrynth I wanted to set up in an ungardenable portion of our yard. The obstacle course I would still love to set up. The community fitness program. The What Color is Your Parachute miniclass for the local teens here. The really cool visual business plan i found made into a minicourse for the teens and adults in this community. The boxes of plans for a solar oven despite living in a perpetually cloudy area. Oh, the game designing shelves I have. The python programming to maximize use of the ren'py program which can be used to make visual novels, choose your own adventures with scores to track, and dating sims. What about the 'caveman' rpg I wanted to make, complete with heroscape land pieces, miniatures, and a culture building setup?

Seriously, the list goes on and on and on. That was only a portion of one wall in my small living room. And that was just some of the stuff I had kept after two cycles of getting rid of the stuff.

Note: I realize that I am particularly bad about this, and that this doesn't reflect the extent of other NeFi.

Well yes, and theres the thing, the idea's are workable... just not alone, they need collaboration... without that they fall short... even if they have a great start up... the energy required for me to put everything into a project does not last long, I then need to pass it on to others or give up. I started a gardening club at my sons school... They had a horrid concrete playground and zero artistic creative outlet... Inner city London school where most of the children thought chickens came from the supermarket. So the idea was to teach them about the wider world... or at least into the countryside where many of the children had never been.


It went well for a little while but having no help from the school teachers and there being no Parent teachers association i could not manage it for more than a a couple of terms single handedly... luckily for me i was able to persuade a couple of other proactive parents to join in and share the responsibility. There was huge resistance from the school with cooperation... i.e they didn't want the children to do it after school or at lunchtimes.... so we had to do it in the two fifteen minute breaks... which was not easy with young kids... as soon as they were getting into it the bell would go... so it required a lot of planning which was very hard for me. With the help of the other parents though we managed to get a tree funding org to donate some fruit trees to us, the idea being that the kids would at least know how to look after trees and where fruit came from... I hoped it would also provide them with sustainable goodness in their diet (for fruit season at least)...

So we had a huge event day with the planting of the trees and secured a famous t.v gardener to come along and invited the press, hoping this would change the way the school looked at it. It did, for five minutes... the teachers made smart and hogged all the photo's talking about 'their' gardening project. A little while after that, the tools which the parents had clubbed together to buy were stolen as the school would not provide anywhere safe fro them... I couldn't continue anymore and gave over the club to another parent.


I think it lasted a little over a year in total... that was one of the more successful projects.


I have (short version) also made a local youth football team... (long story) it lasted over a year also... I went to youth clubs in the borough to recruit children who otherwise could not afford football club (we charged a nominal fee of 1 pound, more for the commitment aspect)..The general idea with most of the clubs was to keep children off the streets in their free time. I bleive that it is one of the biggest issues we have with youth is that they do not have enough to do, they do not have positive role models and they lack direction, we used to have lots of youth clubs that were mostly closed down in the 90's so i wanted to make a concerted effort (even if just locally) to try to change the social climate into a more positive forward I can achieve way of thinking. that fell down when i had to make proposals for funding (which I did manage to do initially)in order to enter the football league, so much bureaucracy and red tape and I lacked the organisational skills and patience to keep on with it.

Many many others... but yeah, I just can't go into them all, the Ideas I have had almost plague me... they are often relentless, and I research like a crazed person when i am mid creative flow. The two examples above are ones that I have managed to put into practise with some help from other people. And as i stated before I do actually have a small business so I do manage to get some ideas off the ground... the structure though, the organisation, the everyday monotony of making it work... thats really really difficult for me.

[anndelise]

@Geminatronix
Thank you for posting that. It helps me to not feel so bad about my many failed projects/ideas.
I totally understand about feeling plagued by them. I am trying to narrow mine down to 10-12 in the hopes that I might actually pursue them longer or better yet, actually finish/accomplish at least one. But it drives my batty to have to make a firm enough decision to say "No" and get rid of it's related notes, books, and/or items. And no sooner do I put a book into the donate/sell pile than I'm almost immedately pulling it back out because a bunch of interesting new ideas about it just came to mind.

It sounds like your two programs were worthwhile and beneficial. It's a shame you couldn't get more assistance, or someone who enjoys organizing and fund raising to help the programs.

[Park]

What kind of business are you in? Soft goods retail? Can't your husband assist you in that?


I find this topic interesting, because with me it's pretty much the other way around. Practical implementation is easy, coming up with proper (long-term) ideas is hard. I either overshoot or set my ideas too low and sometimes fail to follow through (either intentionally or unintentionally) because of that incongruity. I suck at adequately seizing opportunities and coming up with realistic, suitable to my situation, ideas to implement. Sometimes I'll succeed in pulling a project through to completion, just to realize it's been a terrible idea totally not worth the effort and/or producing all kinds of unwanted consequences. And it's kind of weird and counterintuitive when your ideas get you further from, rather than closer to, your higher goals.

[SyrupDeGem]

What kind of business are you in? Soft goods retail? Can't your husband assist you in that?

Pretty much, with offshoots. My So does help, but not in the practical matters (except the website stuff)... I actually need a P.A or manager. I have joined the business desk fro my area and I'm hoping that the meetings will aid me in the areas I need.. such as do it all software programs etc... free channel hoppers and etc. Also my So it working on his masters so is pretty busy.

[Becca]

My good friend is an ENFp and she has this same problem, she'll come up with all these ideas to do things better but she never actually fulfills them. It's kind of frustrating but cute also. Like she was all excited about buying something, and a few hours later I asked her if she did it and she said "no lol." I enjoy helping her get around to things and we ha

[SyrupDeGem]

My good friend is an ENFp and she has this same problem, she'll come up with all these ideas to do things better but she never actually fulfills them. It's kind of frustrating but cute also. Like she was all excited about buying something, and a few hours later I asked her if she did it and she said "no lol." I enjoy helping her get around to things and we ha

Bless you and all like you who help us develop! Do you have any experience as a business manager...lol.

[Becca]

LOL u sound like her. (my ENFp friend, that is). No I am not a manager of any kind; I am an INFj and I am not too good at getting to work either. But eventually, we get to doing things and we have a good time because we find lots to talk about

[gabrielle]

So.... anyone else identify with this?

Every ENFp I've known has shown a version of what you describe. Finding a dual (ISTp - ISTJ in Myers-Briggs) that you share values with will help ground ENFp and provide motivation to stick to one focused goal. ENFp's I've known all seem to need a belief to go after, which they feel passionately about. It's one of the paradoxes of ENFps. They come across superficially as flighty when not focused. But, when they have matured and/or have a dual they can be seriously dedicated. Probably one of the types that take a longer time to find their niche, though. I'm not sure why, except I've noticed they can be a bit stubborn. Might be the Fi that is really picky and hard to satisfy.

[Suz]

Every ENFp I've known has shown a version of what you describe. Finding a dual (ISTp - ISTJ in Myers-Briggs) that you share values with will help ground ENFp and provide motivation to stick to one focused goal. ENFp's I've known all seem to need a belief to go after, which they feel passionately about. It's one of the paradoxes of ENFps. They come across superficially as flighty when not focused. But, when they have matured and/or have a dual they can be seriously dedicated. Probably one of the types that take a longer time to find their niche, though. I'm not sure why, except I've noticed they can be a bit stubborn. Might be the Fi that is really picky and hard to satisfy.

the highlighted points are wrong -- cannot convert MBTI types to socionic types, and ENFps don't need a dual to be dedicated; ENFp's (and other delta NFs for that matter) can be perfectionists, sometimes excessively so, and in fact their duals can help chill them out a bit, if anything.

The rest of what you wrote sounds good to me, though. That last statement you made actually reflects that delta NF perfectionism, perhaps.

[gabrielle]

the highlighted points are wrong -- cannot convert MBTI types to socionic types,

Oh, I wasn't converting as in implying they are interchangeable, like a pair of shoes. Maybe it looked like that from the way I wrote it. I meant the closest similar type in another system.

Thanks for the feedback on the rest of what I wrote. I see you are an Fi-IEE. How would you say perfectionism is derived from your cognitive style?

[SyrupDeGem]

Oh, I wasn't converting as in implying they are interchangeable, like a pair of shoes. Maybe it looked like that from the way I wrote it. I meant the closest similar type in another system.

Thanks for the feedback on the rest of what I wrote. I see you are an Fi-IEE. How would you say perfectionism is derived from your cognitive style?

There are discrepancies between those typings that cause a lot of misunderstandings between the two systems. Swapping the j/p dichotomy from mbti to socionics for introverts is not plain sailing. I feel many 'typical' (that is, agreed by many in the field of socionics) LSI's are actually closer to mbti ISTJ's. Malcom x for example or Javert from les mis.

Examples of SLI would be Antony Hopkins or Mr.Bennet from pride and prejudice. Interestingly I find I am soothed very much by these two but coming from an original mbti standpoint and thinking ISTJ (for SLI), I would not have imagined these two as possibilities.


In regards to finding a niche I'd say IEE's take time but also change their profession, sometimes several times because of the need for newness and exploration, unless they can find that in a single role that is. Or find an easy going role and change their passionate hobby several times . (Which can also be something very serious btw).

[FDG]

Implementing any kind of business idea is hard, requires skill and time, and the likelihood of failure is fairly high so I think your experience is pretty *normal* insofar as business owners go.

[gabrielle]

@Geminatronix,

Mr. Bennet. Huh. I bought my daughter a Jane Austen collection this past Christmas.It's been over 30 years since I read P&P. From what I recall he was resigned, ineffectual, a bit of an intellectual snob, rural book worm with a favoured daughter.

Well,best of luck in your business implementation. The Nike slogan has always been a good one. Cheers

[SyrupDeGem]

@Geminatronix,

Mr. Bennet. Huh. I bought my daughter a Jane Austen collection this past Christmas.It's been over 30 years since I read P&P. From what I recall he was resigned, ineffectual, a bit of an intellectual snob, rural book worm with a favoured daughter.

Well,best of luck in your business implementation. The Nike slogan has always been a good one. Cheers

I'm really not sure if this is supposed to be offensive. I'm pretty anti Nike. I buy clothing thats mostly made in the uk, for humanitarian reasons as well as others. I also design and make my own as well as having another branch of vintage clothing.


Oh, maybe you meant 'Let's do it' ? if so I apologise, I can't help thinking sweatshop when I hear that brand name.

Edit: Regarding Mr.Bennet he was less of a snob and more uninterested in high drama. Very calm at all times and allowing his daughters the freedom to make their own choices. He clearly did not have a great deal in common on any level with his wife, so he took to the little enjoyments of slightly 'off' humour. Think that explains it... a little at least, from my perspective.

[FDG]

Oh, maybe you meant 'Let's do it' ? if so I apologise, I can't help thinking sweatshop when I hear that brand name.

I can bet that's what she was thinking. That was the first thing that came to mind.

[gabrielle]

I'm really not sure if this is supposed to be offensive. I'm pretty anti Nike. I buy clothing thats mostly made in the uk, for humanitarian reasons as well as others. I also design and make my own as well as having another branch of vintage clothing.


Oh, maybe you meant 'Let's do it' ? if so I apologise, I can't help thinking sweatshop when I hear that brand name.

I was referring to their slogan of "Just Do It" with respect to the topic at hand. I was subtlety suggesting, or so I thought it would taken, that sometimes ruminating is a way of procrastination, when in business, what is required is "Just Do It". My two cents.

I wasn't being offensive. It wasn't intended the way you took it, since I have no way of knowing your particular value system. Apology accepted.

[SyrupDeGem]

I was referring to their slogan of "Just Do It" with respect to the topic at hand. I was subtlety suggesting, or so I thought it would taken, that sometimes ruminating is a way of procrastination, when in business, what is required is "Just Do It". My two cents.

I wasn't being offensive. It wasn't intended the way you took it, since I have no way of knowing your particular value system. Apology accepted.

Yeah I had recently posted in the IEE whats your job/career (or some such) thread and wasn't sure how much of that was included or not. I have issues with the big multinationals exploiting people so I reacted. I do try where ever possible not to mention big brand names so as to give them as little air time and attention as poss personally.