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Thread: How does Fe/Fi valuing types see each others?

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    Default How does Fe/Fi valuing types see each others?

    I guess the title is clear enough, I am doing a revisit of my understanding of socionics and tomorrow I am planning to focus on Fe & Fi so I thought it would be interesting to see how does Fe/Fi valuing types see each others irl?

    also, you can discuss any misunderstanding of them (for example Fe vs so-first)

    have nice dreams

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    come on are you afraid of hurting each others feelings?

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    I am going to limit my example to irl and only people I feel confident are Fi leads. So there is no reason for anyone to feel hurt as I am not specifically attributing this to any self typed Fi egos here.

    I have posted before about how I used to see Fi leads and how my perceptions have changed since joining this forum. Actually, I am not afraid to hurt anyone's feelings since I no longer see Fi lead (or valuers) as just morality preaching, judgmental, grudge holders that don't care if they ruin the mood for everyone if they are hurting. They can't hide their feelings as well because it shows on their face. I used to see them like that but now I understand the differences and some of it enneagram related. I am not going to go into that though.

    I imagine my feelings were biased before because I can be the same as them but for me it usually passes quickly and I do not value Fi in that way. This was the root of some issues I had with my EII sister (to a lesser extent my ESI friend). Her feelings often felt like they were set in stone and she could even write off long time family friends or certain family members if they crossed her in a way that violated her beliefs in right and wrong. If she got to the point of disliking someone it was harder for her to shift out of it and like them again. I could do the same but it took me a lot longer to get to the point of cutting someone off. I was also quicker to forgive and like them again (sometimes within moments of feeling dislike) than she was but when she did forgive, it was genuine and it showed by the way she treated them once they were forgiven. I guess I used to try and push her to let stuff go that I had already gotten over and when she wouldn't I just thought she was too stubborn to see the other person's side of things. I can be stubborn too but mine usually involves completely different issues. Not so much issues of an ethical/moral variety.

    From her side, she probably saw me as more fickle and probably thought my bonds with others were too shallow, which was definitely not the case. She would get upset with me for not being mad at the same people she was mad at or not liking someone she liked because I felt no connection to them like she did. Moreso when we were younger.

    She actively utilized self help books and seminars to deal with her issues and tried to get me to do the same. I preferred therapy and she thinks a lot of them are quacks which is funny because I think some of the self help gurus she chose were too shallow. Perception... I think we both projected a lot. She mainly thought I had things I had not dealt with that still affected me. No matter how much I tried to tell her I was over something she would not believe me and would very gently try to get me to talk about stuff I didn't want to. The more gentle she was with me the more irritated I would start to feel with her. I think it was because she could not let things go herself so assumed I was in the same state as her when I wasn't.

    I will ask her how she perceives me now and how she perceived me a few years ago. I am not going to tell her it is socionics though.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Fi to Fe- Fake
    Fe to Fi- Selfish

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    When it actually comes down to the particular aspect of "who with whom" of Fi users, the information does not strike a chord with me often because I neglect it
    I don't see it as valuable information and labelled it gossip in the past, although I can see its appeal in terms of objective influence now that I know more about Socionics That's why I respect Gamma SFs who use Fi combined with Se. Delta Fi with Ne is rather open-ended, not concerned with Ni closure. It's harder to understand and deal with that. Its aristocracy excludes people who are not already involved and known. For instance, when I am with my IEE friend, I suddenly feel ostracized when he starts talking to other Delta members because I am not actively `recruited´ to their conversation. Everything is great when we're two by two but the message I get in these situations is: "You're a nobody here - keep trying to act like you know us since day one." It's hilarious because it makes me realize how I make others feel like they are very close to me by default I see it like this: They just need time and several stages to warm up in their relations, while I do it right away without boundaries and requirements. I prefer to create instant camaraderie and a feeling of being welcome and appreciated instead. No insider stuff, especially not in the form of:

    Them: "Hi! Did you know what Jack Doodle and Joe Drabble did?".
    Me: "Who are Jack and Joe!!? And why are they relevant right now? How did we arrive at this topic? Is it a fun story?"
    Them: "No it's just an account of what's going on in their lives. Jack and Joe are friends with Jane and Jared btw. Jane dates Jack. Jack tried to cheat on her with Jenny. But Jenny has a crush on Jared. So Jared went out with Joe. That means Joe and Jared are no longer friends.
    Also I am going out with Jenny these days."
    Me: "I see, okay...? Interesting...! Do I really have to know that? Those are some cool names right there though
    hahaa!! Doodle and Drabble, wow!! Fabulous! And it means that Jared and Joe are gay woohoo LGBT pride, fantastic #kings!!" (The desired answer would've been: "Ahh, I met with Jack and Jenny recently, Jack said to me that Jane likes Joe..." etc.)
    Them: "Yeah..."


    Both approaches are legit, I simply prefer to show my stance - not how I am part of the constellation - and see how they react to my level of distance or proximity, and I expect input to be logically comprehensive so I can show my liking. Saying that Jack and Joe caused some chaos in the community would've been enough I would've asked about whether they need advice, and then what specifics there are, then point out who has to act in what way to trigger this and that to create harmony.

    To elaborate my reasoning about the "who with whom" a little more, I view it as something behind the back of another, avoiding the direct exchange. Especially just for the sake of it, gossip generally seems like the weird way to go about social interaction. The complexity of social webs is hard to grasp because I see them in dynamic terms, hard to pin down. I get the idea of "this person is on this person's side" and group belonging because I'm aristocratic but I can't spot bonds instinctually. All I see is: Person A openly shows this attitude toward person B (through appreciation, disgust, compassion, enthusiasm etc). Fi is far too subtle and unspoken for me, and too chained to others. I see that their bonds can make them happy but in my case, I merely want to enjoy my encounters, no matter the degree of acquaintance and a clear understanding of why Jack and Joe need to be talked about

    Another example from my shopping trip early this month, showing how I overlook Fi because of Fe as I determine attitudes.
    A guy and a gal were standing in the queue in front of me. I could not determine whether they were a couple or not, all I assessed was that the guy was treating the girl in a rude way. My analytical brain automatically went: "Body language of disrespect, coldness and contempt, speaks condescendingly, gives orders without asking what she wants" and so on. So I assumed an abusive boyfriend (or brother?) scenario based on the ad-hoc clues I observed. They COULD be on good terms and very close, friendly in other contexts but the vibe right then was really bad and I predicted nothing good for them, actually wanting to warn the girl but that seemed not appropriate and patronizing, getting ahead of myself without knowing the full extent of their disposition

    --> Conclusion: I used Fe (situation reading) first, then Ni (prediction, archetype assignment) and Ne (what could be, alternatives). I ignored Fi because I was busy reading them outwardly. If I had used Fi back then, I would've said how I related to the two of them, but I didn't care much about that, they were just fellow customers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteronfireee View Post
    Fi to Fe- Fake
    Fe to Fi- Selfish
    This is roughly correct I think (if you're only talking about the ethics part).
    Last edited by Exodus; 12-28-2016 at 08:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimumu View Post
    retarded
    you broke my heart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I think it was because she could not let things go herself so assumed I was in the same state as her when I wasn't.
    so you think Fi-users generally have harder time letting go

    I am not going to tell her it is socionics though.
    why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Them: "Hi! Did you know what Jack Doodle and Joe Drabble did?".
    Me: "Who are Jack and Joe!!? And why are they relevant right now? How did we arrive at this topic? Is it a fun story?"
    one question at a time please

    I can't spot bonds instinctually.
    really? I thought Fe-egos can spot bonds instinctually, is it because you're Fi-ignoring or is it the same for all Fe-valuers?

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    To OP: Fi seems weirdly distant to me though this is hard for me to notice by default. Fe just seems "normal".


    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    When it actually comes down to the particular aspect of "who with whom" of Fi users, the information does not strike a chord with me often because I neglect it
    Worse with Se or with Ne?

    It's hilarious because it makes me realize how I make others feel like they are very close to me by default I see it like this: They just need time and several stages to warm up in their relations, while I do it right away without boundaries and requirements. I prefer to create instant camaraderie and a feeling of being welcome and appreciated instead.
    Why would others have to feel like they are very close to you right away? Why is this even important to focus on? I focus more on the outside situation. Is this me not being focused on Ethics and relations by default?

    Conclusion: I used Fe (situation reading) first, then Ni (prediction, archetype assignment) and Ne (what could be, alternatives). I ignored Fi because I was busy reading them outwardly. If I had used Fi back then, I would've said how I related to the two of them, but I didn't care much about that, they were just fellow customers.
    That is a weird interpretation there, the last part, no one would relate in any particular way to random customers in a shop. So this isn't specifically about valuing or not valuing Fi.


    PS: Sorry, I think I still owe you a PM - I didn't completely forget about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    so you think Fi-users generally have harder time letting go

    why not?
    I think that they can... not saying all do. I am often more careful with Fi leads because of it. IEE usually talk about it, at least the ones I know will talk about it if they feel hurt usually in private. I think SEE are more likely to bring it out in the open too. I joke less with Fi leads than I do with Fe ego. I have made teasing remarks before that actually upset someone here and I was totally joking. I still wonder if they have bad feelings because of it so yeah I try to be careful but online I can't always be sure what I am dealing with. I think enneagram and other things factor in.

    I am not telling my sister so she doesn't get concerned that I am once again getting sucked into a psychological mindfuck. i just wanted a pure response.

    I have told her about it before though and had her take the tests and read the descriptions. We both already knew she was an Fi lead. It was a pleasant subject to discuss while both my sisters were visiting but they are more focused on other things in life. My EII sister has a stepson to raise so no time to spend hours on a theory that doesn't have more mainstream value, I suppose. She prefers things like, Caroline Myss, Deepak Chopra and Eckhart Tolle. She sends me books and I send her books on crazier ideas.

    Edit: Incidentally, my sister mentioned to me this morning that she has let a lot of things go this past year. <3
    Last edited by Aylen; 12-29-2016 at 01:38 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    is sincerely insincere, seeking to just get everyone to just "get along" as it were and rather expert in doing so even if the user isn't being "honest" as it were. Whereas is so sincere it hurts and cares little for the world outside it. will die on a hill with no regrets, knowing that it stood for what was right as far as it was concerned. Was that the right move? Maybe, maybe not, but the point remains. The will seek a compromise, and the will stand firm even under duress of torture. Which was the better course of action will, sadly, be an issue of hindsight which is also tragically always 20/20.

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    @Chae I thought a bit more about this and I wonder if it's about what you specifically meant by being close. Would you elaborate on this please.

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    I got a response from my EII sister this morning on how she sees me. Since she does not know this has anything to do with functions she gave me the pure response I was looking for. This is actually harder to share than I anticipated it to be. She knows I am sharing it though. I love my sister.




    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    To OP: Fi seems weirdly distant to me though this is hard for me to notice by default. Fe just seems "normal".


    Worse with Se or with Ne?
    As I pointed out in the next sentences; I contrasted SeFi with NeFi saying that I respect the former and find it harder to deal with the latter It's not actually worse in a normative way, just more intricate to understand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Why would others have to feel like they are very close to you right away? Why is this even important to focus on? I focus more on the outside situation. Is this me not being focused on Ethics and relations by default?
    It's THE most important thing to focus on! I always want to close the gap, to influence. It's important to focus on for me because I want our communication to be in a certain mood, to go a certain way, to establish/solve/etc something. My attitude will be 100% clear outwardly. Also, I want to know more about the person. And yes sure, I think so


    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    That is a weird interpretation there, the last part, no one would relate in any particular way to random customers in a shop. So this isn't specifically about valuing or not valuing Fi.


    PS: Sorry, I think I still owe you a PM - I didn't completely forget about it
    No one is a generalization, ask lungs and she will give you a complete rundown of that Again - perspective.

    Are you sure you're not a SLE? Your perception of Fi seems impeded by Fe set as standard ("normal"), your usual mode is busy with the outside situation, and you literally said how your focus is not on ethics of relations at all And! Complete rejection of relating to random people --> low in Fi, you stated it in your first sentence as well. Fi lead would figure out how they relate to /any/ person there is. Short analysis of mini material. What do you think?

    And yes please

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    is sincerely insincere, seeking to just get everyone to just "get along" as it were and rather expert in doing so even if the user isn't being "honest" as it were. Whereas is so sincere it hurts and cares little for the world outside it. will die on a hill with no regrets, knowing that it stood for what was right as far as it was concerned. Was that the right move? Maybe, maybe not, but the point remains. The will seek a compromise, and the will stand firm even under duress of torture. Which was the better course of action will, sadly, be an issue of hindsight which is also tragically always 20/20.
    Hm... Agreeing with the inside/outside + self-righteous/collective divide. However, sincerity is a question of motive. You emphasize the tricky side of Fe as betrayal or a lie, in fact it can broadcast something from the inside out that is right - for everybody, which is the situational benefit. There's nothing dishonest about broadcasting rightness. Also, Fe is able not to crack under pressure because of its capacity for handling extreme highs and lows (yet not principles, true - unless Ti influences it) psychologically. This is more of a Se matter anyway, your DS is strong Fe can seek compromise or create an upheaval as well when it is convinced in its belief. It's not an issue of hindsight either - each course is right, as everything unfolds the way it should. That way, there is nothing grave to worry about

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    one question at a time please
    No. Attuned to providing my dual with enough fun stuff to analyze

    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    really? I thought Fe-egos can spot bonds instinctually, is it because you're Fi-ignoring or is it the same for all Fe-valuers?
    Nope again Fe is the state of persons as perceivable by everyone involved and not involved. Fi is the state between persons as perceivable by the involved people, esp oneself. And you are correct, it's pronounced in my specific case of course! That's exactly why I said that I neglect Fi. I can spot their bond instantly by subtle gestures that they show, but that dulls out my instinct of knowing how exactly they are interrelated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I have made teasing remarks before that actually upset someone here and I was totally joking. I still wonder if they have bad feelings because of it
    yeah they do & will never forgive you as long as they live, but I don't remember seeing you making remarks that can upset anyone, are you sure they are not being hypersensitive?

    I am not telling my sister so she doesn't get concerned that I am once again getting sucked into a psychological mindfuck.


    Edit: Incidentally, my sister mentioned to me this morning that she has let a lot of things go this past year. <3
    good for her

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    sincerely insincere
    This has a nice ring to it

    The will seek a compromise, and the will stand firm even under duress of torture.
    a compromise is better than torture IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    No. Attuned to providing my dual with enough fun stuff to analyze
    don't mean to be offensive but I didn't see any fun stuff to analyze in your questions

    Nope again
    come on admit it you hate me don't you?

    Fe is the state of persons as perceivable by everyone involved and not involved. Fi is the state between persons as perceivable by the involved people, esp oneself.
    so when I misinterpret a girl friendly attitude as she likes me then find out she was just being nice, does that mean I have weak Fi (failing to perceive the bond between us)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    is sincerely insincere, seeking to just get everyone to just "get along" as it were and rather expert in doing so even if the user isn't being "honest" as it were. Whereas is so sincere it hurts and cares little for the world outside it. will die on a hill with no regrets, knowing that it stood for what was right as far as it was concerned. Was that the right move? Maybe, maybe not, but the point remains. The will seek a compromise, and the will stand firm even under duress of torture. Which was the better course of action will, sadly, be an issue of hindsight which is also tragically always 20/20.
    You are so dramatic sometimes. I don't think Fi lead is the type that would stand firm under torture or would die on a hill with no regrets. I see them a bit more delicate and rational than that.

    I would change the word "compromise" to "cooperate" because cooperation tends to aim for win/win and "compromise" often requires a sacrifice. That might just be a me thing though.

    Even when I don't agree with you, I END up rooting for you to get what you want in the end. <3

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    don't mean to be offensive but I didn't see any fun stuff to analyze in your questions
    Please fully offend me so I get what you're up to though. And well, you're under no obligation to play my analytical counterpart on a socionics forum. Your choice, I offer the opportunity. Also... it was just a fun dialogue, how come you're impacted by that so much? :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    come on admit it you hate me don't you?
    You already think you're hated when someone disagrees with you in a discussion? Your ego is either fragile or you're very hilarious (try to steer it toward the latter in your reply, otherwise you'll crash and burn and we don't want nor need that).

    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    so when I misinterpret a girl friendly attitude as she likes me then find out she was just being nice, does that mean I have weak Fi (failing to perceive the bond between us)?
    It means that you were raised into a fully functioning heterosexual


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    My experiences with, and thoughts on Fi valuing types and their use of both Fi and Fe.

     
    Fi leads: Fine, until we reach the point where I have crossed an invisible line (one of their boundaries, I guess) and they will not want to speak to me ever again. Apart from that, as long as the interactions don't reach a ground that is "too emotionally close", it is really okay. Surface level interactions are better in general, less ground to conflict on. Focusing on shared interests and likes makes the interaction better, too. It is the easiest with Fi leads who are healthy E9, ime.

    Certain Fi leads Online: They get really upset about some of my opinions for some reason and call me out on it, and then end up pointing out my "incompetency" (aka PoLR) or "bad human nature" under any comment I make. Basically, being very passive-aggressive "haters". Usually find my opinions "not backed up" by enough credible sources, so they point that out, while failing to respond with sound arguments themselves, which are purely based on emotion and little to no logic whatsoever.

    All in all, I sometimes do not understand how certain Fi lead people get so worked up about (=offended by) certain things I am saying or doing. I am not a truly offensive person, I am mostly PC, but it still happens. Granted, I do not make an effort to not offend people. I do not necessarily "package" my opinions nicely. Anyhow, I find it difficult to figure out the entire blueprint of an Fi lead's personal Fi values, because they do not always talk about them, so it can be really hit or miss – in those cases, I can feel like the bull in a china shop, breaking all their Fi values without even knowing how or why and what is actually happening. And those Fi leads that are truly militant about their values... I find their extreme focus on some cause sort of superfluous, and at the worst a problem. I am mostly talking about those ESI-Fi people who are militant Vegans, and make videos saying "People who eat meat should be dead", or on the less extreme end "All people who eat meat are bad and should be disrespected".

    Now, the Fi of people who have Creative Fi is MUCH easier to deal with for me, on average.
    I find their more flexible use of Fi much more sensible and appropriate. I can even find their Fi sort of admirable sometimes (up to a point – my opinion on that stuff is ever-changing; sometimes I find it admirable, other times I am neutral about it, at the worst I am annoyed by it – but that is rare). Usually ExFps also have Fi driven causes, but they are typically more "far-reaching", and more imbued with the awareness of the wishes and concerns of more/most people (Demonstrative Fe thing, maybe?). Their Fi is simply less "insular" and less strict, and I find that more appealing. Besides the fact that their Demonstrative Fe makes for much more pleasant social interactions. In contrast, Fe Ignoring in social group interactions can be a bit difficult to figure out or to "work with" for me. Are they actually enjoying themselves? And they seem to "cool down" the fun atmosphere at times, which I find stifling and unpleasant. Whereas Fe Demonstrative is both skilled at and more willing to influence the emotional atmosphere for the better, which I can admire.

    For some reason, I have had some awkward clashes with Fi seeking people regarding certain values, too.
    It is less bad than with many Fi leads, but certainly worse than my interactions with Creative Fi people. In a way, they "expect" from others more strict Fi values. Or maybe it is really just the fact that Te leads are not really the best types for me in general. Difficult to explain. It is a bit of a mixed bag here. Oh, I should mention my take on their Fe Role. Tbh, I can find it a bit creepy with certain people, especially when it is a male LSE. I cannot exactly say why it seems creepy, but to me, their facial movements and Fe can seem sort of "forced" or "fake" to me, and that is creepy and makes me uncomfortable. It looks like as if they were wearing a mask and the facial features do not contort and convey emotions as they should. Without that creepiness factor (again, it doesn't come up with all Fe Role people... but with many), I can actually find their Fe Role okay. It is surely more fun than Fe Ignoring (but not as fun as Fe Demonstrative).

    I cannot say much about the Fi of Fi HA people. It can also be a mixed bag here. Either kind of okay or kind of meh. Can be a bit cute at most – when they seem ignorant of it or a bit helpless, but not when they have formed some oddly strict Fi views in a insufficient manner. Then I stay away and try to avoid the topic. Generally, not too much of a problem, though. I can find their Fe PoLR much more problematic and frustrating/unappealing in certain group situations – however, it can be vaguely humorous. When they "use" their Fe with a certain humorous (bordering on witty sarcasm) tone, it can be okay. But if it leads to the dissolution of the group, I am against it.

    So, putting my Ti HA to use, here is my personal ranking:
    1. Creative Fi
    2. Fi HA
    3. Fi Seeking
    4. Fi Lead

    Either way...
    Many of my best friends, and many of my crushes have been Fi Ego.
    Many of those friendships have ended because of some "Fi violation" – that is what happened with the ESI-Fi girls, while with the other Fi types our friendships just ended up fizzling out on their own. And those crushes typically never really lead to anywhere serious.

    So, there you have it.
    Fi can be the bane of my existence, but that hasn't stopped me from befriending Fi individuals or falling for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I got a response from my EII sister this morning on how she sees me. Since she does not know this has anything to do with functions she gave me the pure response I was looking for. This is actually harder to share than I anticipated it to be. She knows I am sharing it though. I love my sister.



    That was so heartfelt <3 She's awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Please fully offend me so I get what you're up to though.
    I'd love to

    Also... it was just a fun dialogue, how come you're impacted by that so much? :/
    I was trying to image the dialogue and that part was hilarious < at least the way I imaged it

    You already think you're hated when someone disagrees with you in a discussion?
    not a chance, and btw last week I was discussing something with my mom & sister and I told them "you hurt my feelings" and both of them said "come on as if you have any" < apparently I am the worst actor ever

    This is the first time I notice the "fire door keep shut" note on the door

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    Something about certain Fi ego types makes me want to intentionally offend them.

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    I think a lot of it boils down to how one another carries out the values with others in real life. They may have similar values but go about it differently. I think it depends on the situation that is bothering them as well. Context, how it was carried out, in alignment with their core values.

    For me personally I get lost in my head and it takes me a while to filter out what I feel/think. I need a lot of time to think before I speak about how I really feel. I journal and listen to music until I get it together. Though simple gestures like placing a hand on my shoulder when I seem upset can help get me to open up. It all depends on context.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    I'd love to

    I was trying to image the dialogue and that part was hilarious < at least the way I imaged it

    not a chance, and btw last week I was discussing something with my mom & sister and I told them "you hurt my feelings" and both of them said "come on as if you have any" < apparently I am the worst actor ever

    This is the first time I notice the "fire door keep shut" note on the door
    You're actually being cute now Hm... well - acting is a matter of persuasion. Try reverse psychology or something

    Same actually, are you a fellow Sherl fan? I need someone to wait w/ me because of the new season *^*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Told Ya View Post
    Something about certain Fi ego types makes me want to intentionally offend them.
    Try the ones with E1 influence for a challenge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Try the ones with E1 influence for a challenge

    I grew up with both,nothing would surprise me about Fi at this point.

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    IME, the only real bad offenders are those with or in a weaker position (basically Logicals, but expressed differently between and users). On a good day I can usually shrug off a glancing blast of -ego hostility so long as it doesn't seriously threaten my safety. It only becomes a problem when the aggression becomes unanimous and puts serious limitations on what I'm able to do, or if I'm weakened and someone kicks me while I'm down.


    I've known Super-Id to be even worse than Super-Id , though. Unhealthy ILIs are the most incorrigible cunts to ever draw breath, full stop. To even exist near them is to walk through a minefield. They view the entire world as an extension of their own intellectual space. They cannot stand the thought of their perceived ideal systems being compromised in reality, and so they will make a conscious effort to condemn and emasculate anyone who as ever voiced an opinion they cannot tolerate. God forbid you make the mistake of making one comment that offends their precious sensibilities, no matter whom it was directed at, they'll remember it, and they'll go out of their way to shit on you every time you come within close proximity. Stay as far away from them as you want, and they'll still find a way to make your paths cross to harass you again. They're like a cloud of gnats that you swat at and run from all day that won't just fucking DIE already.

    This only applies to the unhealthiest ILIs. Healthy ILIs, for the most part, tend to leave me alone.
    Last edited by Grendel; 12-30-2016 at 05:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You are so dramatic sometimes. I don't think Fi lead is the type that would stand firm under torture or would die on a hill with no regrets. I see them a bit more delicate and rational than that.

    I would change the word "compromise" to "cooperate" because cooperation tends to aim for win/win and "compromise" often requires a sacrifice. That might just be a me thing though.

    Even when I don't agree with you, I END up rooting for you to get what you want in the end. <3
    I hope you get what you want in life too, just so long as you don't want what the more extreme leftists want. I can get onboard with the kumbayah hippie future long term, but I sure as hell do NOT support killing off group X as the necessary sacrifice to achieve it like most of them seem to want to do (p.s. I happen to be in the group they are eager to sacrifice so full disclosure, I don't wanna die just so everyone else can live in a fantasy utopia and if that makes me a bad person than fuck it I'm the devil and proud of it).

    Forgive me for being overly optimistic but I do think that, at the end of the day, we can all have our cake and eat it too if we'd only admit the truth that war is fundamentally stupid. Boiled down to its base, all war is is the desire for a group of men to rape another group of men's women. The history of warfare bears this out and it's so fucking stupid it hurts my mind. For instance, during the Sengoku Jidai the forces of Oda Nobunaga besieged a castle for 11 YEARS!!! 11 fucking years... of just waiting to rape every woman behind those walls when ya get right down to it...

    I get why the Romans didn't give the Sabine women a choice, ya NEED women if ya want a future, but outside that unique instance there's no good reason to go out and kill other people to take their women as concubines. It's fucking dumb, there are better things to fight for, higher concepts to die for other than "muh dick" as it were.

    Basically, I yearn for a world that is rational. Sadly, I also know that humans are fundamentally irrational. So I'm stuck in a paradox .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Certain Fi leads Online: They get really upset about some of my opinions for some reason and call me out on it, and then end up pointing out my "incompetency" (aka PoLR) or "bad human nature" under any comment I make. Basically, being very passive-aggressive "haters". Usually find my opinions "not backed up" by enough credible sources, so they point that out, while failing to respond with sound arguments themselves, which are purely based on emotion and little to no logic whatsoever.
    they have weak unvalued Ti so it is not surprising they want Te supported argument

    I am mostly PC
    personal computer?

    So, putting my Ti HA to use, here is my personal ranking:
    1. Creative Fi
    2. Fi HA
    3. Fi Seeking
    4. Fi Lead
    I didn't expect this ranking, I thought it'd be:
    1. Fi Creative
    2. Fi lead
    3. Fi seeking
    4. Fi HA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    You're actually being cute now
    This is embarrassing, it is much easier to respond to an insult

    Same actually, are you a fellow Sherl fan? I need someone to wait w/ me because of the new season *^*
    of course I am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alioth View Post
    IME, the only real bad offenders are those with or in a weaker position (basically Logicals, but expressed differently between and users). On a good day I can usually shrug off a glancing blast of -ego hostility so long as it doesn't seriously threaten my safety. It only becomes a problem when the aggression becomes unanimous and puts serious limitations on what I'm able to do, or if I'm weakened and someone kicks me while I'm down.


    I've known Super-Id to be even worse than Super-Id , though. Unhealthy ILIs are the most incorrigible cunts to ever draw breath, full stop. To even exist near them is to walk through a minefield. They view the entire world as an extension of their own intellectual space. They cannot stand the thought of their perceived ideal systems being compromised in reality, and so they will make a conscious effort to condemn and emasculate anyone who as ever voiced an opinion they cannot tolerate. God forbid you make the mistake of making one comment that offends their precious sensibilities, no matter whom it was directed at, they'll remember it, and they'll go out of their way to shit on you every time you come within close proximity. Stay as far away from them as you want, and they'll still find a way to make your paths cross to harass you again. They're like a cloud of gnats that you swat at and run from all day that won't just fucking DIE already.
    It seems ILIs cause you nightmares

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    (p.s. I happen to be in the group they are eager to sacrifice so full disclosure, I don't wanna die just so everyone else can live in a fantasy utopia and if that makes me a bad person than fuck it I'm the devil and proud of it).
    I think anyone who wanna die for everyone else is either crazy or an idiot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    they have weak unvalued Ti so it is not surprising they want Te supported argument
    Yeah, I know.
    It would be okay if they weren't low-key insulting at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    personal computer?
    Ha nah, I meant "politically correct".

    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    I didn't expect this ranking, I thought it'd be:
    1. Fi Creative
    2. Fi lead
    3. Fi seeking
    4. Fi HA
    Why did you think it would be like that?
    I thought I made it rather clear that I have had the most issues with the Fi of Fi lead people...
    The ranking was really just about which Fi I find the most to the least tolerable, or the least to the most problematic in personal interactions.

    I guess when it comes to how Fi valuing types use Fe, my ranking would be like this:

    1. Fi Creative / Fe Demonstrative
    2. Fi Seeking / Fe Role
    3. Fi lead / Fe Ignoring
    4. Fi HA / Fe PoLR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    Certain Fi leads Online: They get really upset about some of my opinions for some reason and call me out on it, and then end up pointing out my "incompetency" (aka PoLR) or "bad human nature" under any comment I make. Basically, being very passive-aggressive "haters". Usually find my opinions "not backed up" by enough credible sources, so they point that out, while failing to respond with sound arguments themselves, which are purely based on emotion and little to no logic whatsoever.
    I will speak for myself since I did call you out a couple of days ago. What you are doing here is exactly that passive aggressive thing you described above. You type close to all self-typed beta as ESI based on your own likes and dislikes. When people ask questions you hide behind arguments that they demand to back your opinion up with Te sources and all you do is Ti-ing. Everything can not be explained with socionics or sources, there are things which are not type related. But this is apparently explained by our Ni HA. Or by being a 4. Or by something else. Or by just being haters.
    Seriously, I mention your inconsistency, you say - later - it's Te seeking. I say you don't see a bigger picture, you say - still later - it's based on emotion and is little to no logic. Why don't you address anything directly when people "call you out"? Instead, you post snarky passive aggressive comments later on.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    I will speak for myself since I did call you out a couple of days ago. What you are doing here is exactly that passive aggressive thing you described above. You type close to all self-typed beta as ESI based on your own likes and dislikes. When people ask questions you hide behind arguments that they demand to back your opinion up with Te sources and all you do is Ti-ing. Everything can not be explained with socionics or sources, there are things which are not type related. But this is apparently explained by our Ni HA. Or by being a 4. Or by something else. Or by just being haters.
    Seriously, I mention your inconsistency, you say - later - it's Te seeking. I say you don't see a bigger picture, you say - still later - it's based on emotion and is little to no logic. Why don't you address anything directly when people "call you out"? Instead, you post snarky passive aggressive comments later on.
    I wasn't just talking about you when I made this comment. It is something I have experienced with many Fi leads online. It has been a bit of a nuisance at times. I was just being honest when I wrote my take on it. I wanted to give a well-rounded view on what I deem to be my experiences with Fi valuing individuals (I did not only talk about Fi leads). I guess it does involve you on some level. I didn't want to "stab" you by writing this, I just wanted to voice my general frustrations, I guess. And an honest take on Fi. It is just my opinion and experience. You are free to say "it is wrong".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassandra View Post
    I wasn't just talking about you when I made this comment. It is something I have experienced with many Fi leads online. It has been a bit of a nuisance at times. I was just being honest when I wrote my take on it. I wanted to give a well-rounded view on what I deem to be my experiences with Fi valuing individuals (I did not only talk about Fi leads). I guess it does involve you on some level. I didn't want to "stab" you by writing this, I just wanted to voice my general frustrations, I guess. And an honest take on Fi. It is just my opinion and experience. You are free to say "it is wrong".
    I don't say you are wrong. I am not advising to change your opinions. I am not trying to influence your experience. I am not criticising your mind as you said the other day. I just want to bring your attention to the following point : you do the exact same thing you accuse Fi valuers (in your book) of. So if there is something that bothers me, it's not your typings overall or your opinions or experience, they are yours and unique because it's merely part of your entity that I can't and don't want to influence. Now, being an ESI in your book does not "upset" me as you say. No it's actually the way you spin things upside down to your advantage. This is what I could eventually call by disrupting positive emotional atmosphere.


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