anybody we don't likewho questions their type

[Blaze]

let's debate their type and put them in the opposing quadra.

that way we can justify our own position and feel better about ourselves.

[Creepy-bg]

You copied that from an Augusta article didn't you?

[Blaze]

has to be said.

[thePirate]

you know as irritating as this is, it HAS helped out a bunch of people here find their true types or quadras; mine included

either ignore them, or challenge their typing and put them to shame. people are going to do it, and I don't think its neccessarily a bad thing. irritating at times, sure, but its not the worst thing to happen. when you don't challenge understanding, thats where the problems arise.

[Suz]

you know as irritating as this is, it HAS helped out a bunch of people here find their true types or quadras; mine included

either ignore them, or challenge their typing and put them to shame. people are going to do it, and I don't think its neccessarily a bad thing. irritating at times, sure, but its not the worst thing to happen. when you don't challenge understanding, thats where the problems arise.

I agree. I think you're describing my experience here actually

[Jarno]

let's debate their type and put them in the opposing quadra.

that way we can justify our own position and feel better about ourselves.

I've not often seen this. It's not a pattern or something.

[Galen]

let's debate their type and put them in the opposing quadra.

that way we can justify our own position and feel better about ourselves.

Done and done.

What's the next plan?

[krieger]

What's the next plan?

Good question. It was the thing coming before world domination and profit...

[Blaze]

you know as irritating as this is, it HAS helped out a bunch of people here find their true types or quadras; mine included

either ignore them, or challenge their typing and put them to shame. people are going to do it, and I don't think its neccessarily a bad thing. irritating at times, sure, but its not the worst thing to happen. when you don't challenge understanding, thats where the problems arise.

i don't have a problem with the debate. what i have a problem with is when we say they must belong in an opposing quadra and look how effed up that quadra and person are. or when we say no, you don't belong in MY quadra, mine neither, mine neither....go outside the socion and play alone.

that sucks and i hate when we do that.

[somavision]

let's debate their type and put them in the opposing quadra.

that way we can justify our own position and feel better about ourselves.

Get back to socionics.ws with other gamma's, harpie.

[Beautiful sky]

i don't have a problem with the debate. what i have a problem with is when we say they must belong in an opposing quadra and look how effed up that quadra and person are. or when we say no, you don't belong in MY quadra, mine neither, mine neither....go outside the socion and play alone.

that sucks and i hate when we do that.

They tried to ban me several times; that was emotionally draining on me but with the same account, I tried to tell or show that I am an EII and I don't exclude people, I include them and I don't mind people from other quadras commenting on "my" (whatever that means) quadra.

Blaze, you should look at Si and territory and even Se and territory with this regards.

Get back to socionics.ws with other gamma's, harpie.

Seriously? What are you saying here?

[Blaze]

Get back to socionics.ws with other gamma's, harpie.

fuck you man.

[Trevor]

let's debate their type and put them in the opposing quadra.

that way we can justify our own position and feel better about ourselves.

Even better, let's debate their type and put them in our own quadra so we can prolly say "something is rotten in the state of Netherlands". That way we can feel either better or worse about ourselves.

[Blaze]

Blaze, you should look at Si and territory and even Se and territory with this regards.

hmmmmm you could be on to something....but what? what do you mean?

[somavision]

Seriously? What are you saying here?

Sorry, I will calrify. I told Blaze to go back to socionics.ws with the other gamma's and I also called her a harpie.

essentially, the sentance proposes that

1. Blaze is a gamma
2. The other gamma's are at socionics.ws
3. Blaze should go back to socionics.ws with the other gamma's
4. Blaze is a Harpie.

fuck you man.

As I expected, a typical gamma response.

[Beautiful sky]

hmmmmm you could be on to something....but what? what do you mean?

Si and Se will direct you to the spot you need to be or where they want you to go; I have mentioned this several times with regards to both Tereg and Minde; when someone opens a new thread they point out that a thread of that kind has already been opened; whereas you and I allow or are free in letting people express themselves naturally where ever they are...this is very clear about those two functions in socionics and there are many references to it;

" threats to that territory, and making sure everyone recognizes his leadership and status."
Space is territory to a large extent and Se is space...where did I write something, let me look for it.

here
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...e=Filatova_SEI
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...verted_sensing

Here's my VI; I couldn't find more pictures; my mom above is ILI..

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...vi-photos.html


Extraverted sensing is also called Volitional Sensing, or Space-capturing Sensing.

This sensing function directs to occupation of space. People with this strong function are usually demanding people, which like when other people fulfill their wishes and demands. Sometimes they become managers, and sometimes – good sellers that can sell even unnecessary things. They often (but not always) have athletic, somewhat roundish figure, quick and demanding eyes. They are very persistent in the life: "If I want, then it should be achieved”, and they often gladly help other people – those who accept their leadership. Their outbursts of anger may fear some people, but in fact they are short-term – in several minutes they become calm again and restore their good mood.

I don't do this...directing people to places....

[MatthewZ]

I approve of this method as it falls with the forum's objective attitude.

Be quiet, money-hungry Gamma with no concern for the objective truth.

[MatthewZ]

Define objective truth, mousier.

Define truth.

[crazedrat]

the question is not to define objectivity, or to define subjectivity. there is no reason for you to ask for that specification

Be quiet, money-hungry Gamma with no concern for the objective truth.

lol

[MatthewZ]

Objective truth or subjective truth?

Define what the two have in common.

[crazedrat]

I will try...
Truth: a conclusion which conforms to a set of assumptions

[crazedrat]

ILIs basic attitude toward philosophy is to reduce everything to relativism. "is what is" is a redundancy which makes no sense, it's just relative

[MatthewZ]

Touche.

Though is there really anything in common with objective truth and subjective truth?

Anyways, truth is not what isn't. Truth is what is. That's my answer.

Doesn't what is imply what is not?

Wait, I'm giving you grounds to support your Ti-demonstrative view that logical systems aren't the best representation of reality. I'd like to retract the implications of the previous part of this post.

[MatthewZ]

There are many definitions of truth according to different philosophy sects. However, that means nothing to me because the fact is that there is no one way to define truth and I am more interested in honing into that fact, though I suppose the one similarity is that truth is meant to describe what is not false.

:does Ti-demonstrative dance:

That, or you're completely ignorant to the truth and have no knowledge of your own ignorance. For all you know, your lifestyle could be damning you to the underworld of the one truly righteous South American tribe.

[MatthewZ]

Well, I was aiming more for an objective way to describe truth because say truth is a matter of perception and for me, it is subjective truth that I am of a privileged and white though middle class background though tyranny may be brewing under my own nose, but I do not perceive it so it's not true, subjectively, hypothetically speaking, but even if what you said was true, it is true but to be objective, I have to consider the possibility it is not true, as well.

It's impossible to get outside of your own head if you only make it bigger. Same thing with your metaphorical shell.

[MatthewZ]

....Are you calling me arrogant AND stand-offish? Yeah? Well YOU'RE Alpha.

NO, I'm accusing of being A (pseudo-)INTELLECTUAL ELITIST and RECLUSIVE. Get some Fe, GAMMA.

[Blaze]

i love where this went. matthewz and aixlsyd awesome!! :-)

no problemo maritsa....

Si and Se will direct you to the spot you need to be or where they want you to go; I have mentioned this several times with regards to both Tereg and Minde; when someone opens a new thread they point out that a thread of that kind has already been opened; whereas you and I allow or are free in letting people express themselves naturally where ever they are...this is very clear about those two functions in socionics and there are many references to it;

you see this as sensing related? interesting, i would not have labelled it that way. to me, it seems more like rationality vs irrationality. doing things according to the way they should be, according to agreements and convention vs doing things in a more organic way, based on people's inclinations and what motivates them at the time.

[Marie84]

You know, I think it's likely that when people retype someone they probably believe their accurate in doing so and that it isn't based stickily on emotion.
Really I think most of the contention comes from so much disagree as to what the Information Elements mean

[krieger]

Subjective truth is a contradiction in terms. Truth is objective by necessity. It means "correspondence with the objective, mind-independent reality".

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[krieger]

I get the "Monday morning" thing from a lot of the INTjs on this forum. They have control of this powerful Ti function and do virtually nothing with it. Although my assessment is that you tend not to succeed as much as you believe you do, I already respect you infinitely much more than the average alpha NT for trying to make an impact.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I get the "Monday morning" thing from a lot of the INTjs on this forum. They have control of this powerful Ti function and do virtually nothing with it. Although my assessment is that you tend not to succeed as much as you believe you do, I already respect you infinitely much more than the average alpha NT for trying to make an impact.

I wonder how many alpha NT's are actually mis-typed though.

By the way, out of all the self-typed ILE's, pinnochio seems to me like the most believable one out them all, it's hardly surprising then that there seems to be so many who think he's not, mis-conceptions of this type explains this phenomenon, along with possibly explaining fake ILE's, even just fake INTj's in general.

Hey, you know, there's a fair few people on this forum who'd accept me as LII, and it's pretty obvious that it's a type i'm not (well, not obvious to quite a few people, obviously).

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[krieger]

Since I removed my self-typing? I did that as a way of escaping conformism because everybody has a self-typing in their sig these days. I prefer for people to "just know" my type so that it becomes more authorative.

[The Exception]

Hey, you know, there's a fair few people on this forum who'd accept me as LII, and it's pretty obvious that it's a type i'm not (well, not obvious to quite a few people, obviously).

I think you could pass for an LII. Not saying you are one of course.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[krieger]

He doesn't dismiss Ba-Gua stuff, energies, philosophical principles, and participates in such discussions - eg that haeceity vs quiddity.

I've discussed and accepted crazier things in my time on the forum.

Frankly, it's only a myth that Ti is imposing exclusively, both Ti and Te types try to impose things (especially combined with Se/Ni), it's just my preference for obvious reasons why I prefer the Ti way. The Te one seems so lousy, so dirty that outrages me instantly, it has that "let me explain" when everything is clear for someone and there's obviously nothing to explain, on the other hand it is not so aggressive, direct and harsh.

The worst thing happens when the Te type thinks there is some type of objective validity to their conclusions that they reach by means of some form of magic that supposedly makes their judgment absolutely authorative in some way. Another bad situation comes about when singular individuals decide the course of a Te "collective" (R, E).

Ti totalitarianism than Te imperialism

Sounds like the political Left and Right respectively, contrary to your previously expressed views.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Blaze]

Actually I don't know if I wrote this when we talked about comparing quadras to the social organization of different species but: Gammas are like a herd, there's no "alpha" intimidating male, no way, each one is free to go anywhere, but there appears one who's the most visible and all the other follow him (usually "him" afaik). So to be a leader in Gamma, you have to be mobile, to move a lot, to make sure you're visible - no matter of the feelings of the others about you. Modern people put a name on this: advertising.

So the leader in these social groups is not imposed, no one fears him, no one promises him something, he simply is, de facto. This is why there Te types don't argue with people so much, all they need to do is surround the place and check behind who's following them, if not satisfactory enough, no problem, surround the place once more . And they naturally are not so confronting, any quarrel holds one back immobile, but he needs some action.

LIE, for example, the inherent example (Te Rational combined with Ni) they like to be seen everywhere, they have a global image on all the humanity or group, they go to space (Mark Shuttleworth), they climb mountains, anything that can be used by the word of mouth. New things then, no matter if it's not necessarily truly required or necessarily totally new, but just be a bit different, something people can talk about. That's it.

So it's easy to figure out why Te types "slip" things in, "handle" them out, and although they never truly force, they continuously press their goals. Like I said long time ago: Ti = insisting, Te = persisting.
---

Edit: btw, dishonest or very interested Ti types who want to deceive people make things appear that there are fewer options in reality - even one sometimes, the ones favorable to them. On the other hand, Te types make it appear that there are more options than in reality, but the fake ones are usually "aliases" of the favorable ones for them. Remember this.
Te's don't force you eat expired food, saying that that's the only option for now, they simply change the expiring date on the pack, suddenly there's one more option .

No, the I said the opposite: Ti/Fe = Right, Fi/Te = Left. Nazis were totalitarian and rightists, weren't they? But these names were used in history as labels, no concrete relations between the ideals and what actually happened. Left is supposed to be equalitarian, so totalitarianism is excluded, although these totalitarian regimes called themselves "left".

neat ideas about gamma. i know a lot of gammas through my work, so i will contemplate them. :-)

[UDP]

let's debate their type and put them in the opposing quadra.

that way we can justify our own position and feel better about ourselves.

Unbenounced to the reader, he date of that entry is from 2007 or so, and this thread was bumped.