Sensing / caring about awkwardness - type-related?

[Minde]

Particularly in a group context, but one-on-one, too. Not physical but social. As in, "Well, that was awkward..."

If you think it's type related: why, how so, to what degree? Which dichotomies, functions, IEs, groupings make a difference? Etc., etc.

[blackburry]

I'm usually concerned with coming off awkward. but lately I just embrace it ,because sooner or later I'm going to do something extremely awkward regardless.

If I witness or am the recipient of overly affectionate/corny words, I feel extremely awkward and will in turn say or do something awkward. example: an older lady in my class exclaimed before a test last week, "EVERYONE YOU WILL DO AMAZING. BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER! " I immediately cowered in my chair, it gave me the heebie-jeebies. Maybe it was the way she said it. Or that it felt like she was an idiot? I pretended like I didn't hear her say it.
while everyone else was like, " aw, you too, how sweet"

[ashlesha]

I'm sorta awkward. but I never really feel particularly awkward until it's called attention to and then I usually get annoyed. too much smoothness and lack of obvious tension can make me feel awkward. it's strange. like youve got to have that little bump to ride over. sometimes I play up my awkwardness if I feel like things are too formal or to humanize myself. I have a very high threshold for awkwardness. maybe too high. I have no problem sitting in silence with someone I just met until I see *them* squirm. but up until then I'm fine.

[ashlesha]

oh is it type related????
I feel like fe is the obvious answer but I'm not sure I've actually seen it play out that way.
there's a particular sort of slickness and attention to awkward levels that I've seen in some beta nfs, but not even close to all of them.

[fen]

Idk. Maybe social instinct related.

[Iris]

I am pretty sensitive to social awkwardness and try not to be awkward myself. If I am in an awkward social situation, I find myself trying to smooth it over. I feel compelled to do it instinctively, like I am on autopilot. I don't know why I do that. It is one of the reasons I am considering EIE > IEI for myself. It seems that an IEI would not feel as compelled to influence social situations.

[Minde]

@Minde: are you asking about people who actually _make a point_ to state that something is/was awkward?

I'm asking a mostly general, open-ended question. So far all the replies have been perfect. If what you notice is mainly people who make a point, then comment on that. If another aspect stands out to you, comment on that, too. Or instead.

If they're making a point of it, then they likely care about it. However, I think some people notice but don't care. Some people care, but aren't sensitive. Others care and are sensitive to it but don't know how to change things. Still others aren't sensitive and don't care. And so on.

[FDG]

I am pretty sensitive to social awkwardness and try not to be awkward myself. If I am in an awkward social situation, I find myself trying to smooth it over.

I also think so, but it depends on the culture. Compared to my original culture (northern italy), I am rather full of initiative and an akwardness-smoothener. Compared to Germany, I am very much anti-awkwardness and I generally try to keep the convo going (if there are problems - otherwise I will gladly shut up). Compared to southern italians, I can tolerate pretty long silences without feeling akward (that is to say, more than 3-4 seconds). So, that's a hard question.

[Creepy-pikachu]

I try to cover for awkwardness, but its blatantly obvious =/ I dont care if Im accidently awkward myself.

[Absurd]

Sounds ethical, I think. Not 100% sure though. Write a bit more.

[lemontrees]

Am awkward. Soooo awkward... Sometimes it's frenetically charming, other times more like digging a hole deeper.

[Minde]

To me it's not really something I think about or that particularly bothers me. I've realized more how little I pay attention to or focus on it, relative to some other people anyway.

For example, an anecdote: This weekend I hung out with my sister, her husband, and a couple of her friends. Brother-in-law and I got into a discussion on child-labor and conditions in general in warehouses. Now, BiL doesn't worry at all about mood or atmosphere and he usually expresses his opinions without too much filtering for emotional impact. Not that he's cruel, he just doesn't seem to think about it. If he realizes he's stepped on toes, and if he cares about you, he'll usually try backtracking or making it up somehow.

We got into a mild disagreement on a particular aspect and he did his usual blunt talk, but after a short bit I diffused and kind of stopped the discussion because I saw my sister was getting uncomfortable. Personally I can usually disagree amiably albeit directly with my BiL, and I have no reason to believe he gets offended at all either. But I think my sister's middle-child-mediator instincts kick in and she doesn't like having any boats rocked, particularly between people she cares about. So I've started trying to keep discussions with BiL mild for her sake.

Later I was talking with one of the other friends who were there and they commented how BiL "alters the atmosphere" (in a somewhat negative sense was the implication I think). Then they said how when he and I started "getting into it" they just zoned out (though I distinctly remember them contributing...) and how things felt awkward to them. I can see from their perspective, but I realized it's not something I usually automatically think or care about. Hence my thoughts and hence this thread.

[Narc]

I only care if the awkwardness is extremely suffocating, which isn't the case 99% of the time.

I find that the people I know can feel really imprisoned due to awkwardness so they wait for someone to change the subject but often won't do so themselves. I've started coming up with things to steer the conversation for them, but I usually get a bit of enjoyment watching them get so bothered by it.

It's a shame this is something people care about so much, because people aren't always going to have enough chemistry or enough in common to be talking endlessly. I think there's a certain enjoyment to getting to where you can enjoy someone's company in silence.

[woofwoofl]

Only time I'll get pissed is if someone sends some bullshit my way under the guise of a "joke", in which case I'll tear them apart to the best of my ability.

I'd rather people say what's on their heads so I know where I stand, or say something that really sticks out of the monotony that is the usual conversations, like, if you're gonna go through all the effort of blowing all that air through your vocal cords, make it fucking count. I've got a whole world to see and listen to and I don't like empty words clogging shit up.

Probs the coolest people I know to talk to are ones that stand out, not sure if it counts as "awkward" or whatever, but if enough of us get together and make noise, the more the timid and dull people will be on the run, on the defense, unable to establish their illusory social norms. Bring it.

[717495]

I'm very easy and respectful towards others (in the tru Fi way), never view people as awkward but simply individuals, however oftentimes I feel others may view me as awkward even when they don't, more as though I feel I'm put in an awkward situation where negative feelings are potent on the inside due to an inability to relate. This ironically probably doesn't come into effect when people think I am awkward, esp. Fe types.

I find that the people I know can feel really imprisoned due to awkwardness so they wait for someone to change the subject but often won't do so themselves. I've started coming up with things to steer the conversation for them, but I usually get a bit of enjoyment watching them get so bothered by it.

It's a shame this is something people care about so much, because people aren't always going to have enough chemistry or enough in common to be talking endlessly. I think there's a certain enjoyment to getting to where you can enjoy someone's comfort in silence.

Hmm, yeah. For me it's just laziness and not really caring about being awkward. I love just being able chill with someone with no awkwardness in the silence. When I really feel a compulsion and presence with someone I just have difficulty ignoring them and letting them do their own thing.

I am pretty sensitive to social awkwardness and try not to be awkward myself. If I am in an awkward social situation, I find myself trying to smooth it over. I feel compelled to do it instinctively, like I am on autopilot. I don't know why I do that. It is one of the reasons I am considering EIE > IEI for myself. It seems that an IEI would not feel as compelled to influence social situations.

Any kind of subtle smoothing over I do automatically just happens when I think I'm not being nice enough. I'm just instinctively nice.

[Minde]

I'm usually concerned with coming off awkward. but lately I just embrace it ,because sooner or later I'm going to do something extremely awkward regardless.

If I witness or am the recipient of overly affectionate/corny words, I feel extremely awkward and will in turn say or do something awkward. example: an older lady in my class exclaimed before a test last week, "EVERYONE YOU WILL DO AMAZING. BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER! " I immediately cowered in my chair, it gave me the heebie-jeebies. Maybe it was the way she said it. Or that it felt like she was an idiot? I pretended like I didn't hear her say it.
while everyone else was like, " aw, you too, how sweet"

Something I'm seeing in the replies is a distinction between how you yourself are feeling and how others are feeling - or, rather, your perception of how others are feeling. Like the first part of what you said had to do with how other people perceive you, and the second had to do with how you reacted to someone while everybody else seemed ok.

But, yeah, I know plenty of people who are "allergic" to over-enthusiasm.

I'm sorta awkward. but I never really feel particularly awkward until it's called attention to and then I usually get annoyed. too much smoothness and lack of obvious tension can make me feel awkward. it's strange. like youve got to have that little bump to ride over. sometimes I play up my awkwardness if I feel like things are too formal or to humanize myself. I have a very high threshold for awkwardness. maybe too high. I have no problem sitting in silence with someone I just met until I see *them* squirm. but up until then I'm fine.

Ha, that's interesting. A measured amount of awkwardness comforts you.

See, that's another thing - the term has different meanings to people, as well. Or different definitions perhaps. Different associations and connotations. When I say the word "awkward" I wonder what all of you picture or imagine? And do you consider it in terms of how you are feeling or how others are feeling / perceiving you or the situation? (That's a bit rabbit-trail-y, but hey it's my own thread...)

I am pretty sensitive to social awkwardness and try not to be awkward myself. If I am in an awkward social situation, I find myself trying to smooth it over. I feel compelled to do it instinctively, like I am on autopilot. I don't know why I do that. It is one of the reasons I am considering EIE > IEI for myself. It seems that an IEI would not feel as compelled to influence social situations.

Yeah, the EIEs I've both identified and worked with tend to want to take over control of the group feeling, sometimes at the expense of individuals'. At least, they're more overt about it than many others are. I don't always agree, but usually they have admirable overarching goals and when they're skilled with it I can admire how it works.

[Minde]

I also think so, but it depends on the culture. Compared to my original culture (northern italy), I am rather full of initiative and an akwardness-smoothener. Compared to Germany, I am very much anti-awkwardness and I generally try to keep the convo going (if there are problems - otherwise I will gladly shut up). Compared to southern italians, I can tolerate pretty long silences without feeling akward (that is to say, more than 3-4 seconds). So, that's a hard question.

I agree, culture can have a lot to do with it. Even very sub cultures, like what you're used to in your family or close circle of friends.

i don't pay attention to awkwardness personally, but notice if other people seem uncomfortable in a situation.

I can relate to this, especially the last few years.

Am awkward. Soooo awkward... Sometimes it's frenetically charming, other times more like digging a hole deeper.

But you manage to survive? I've heard rumors that awkward can be appealing, even quite charming to some.

[Minde]

Write a bit more.

Like what?

I only care if the awkwardness is extremely suffocating, which isn't the case 99% of the time.

I find that the people I know can feel really imprisoned due to awkwardness so they wait for someone to change the subject but often won't do so themselves. I've started coming up with things to steer the conversation for them, but I usually get a bit of enjoyment watching them get so bothered by it.

It's a shame this is something people care about so much, because people aren't always going to have enough chemistry or enough in common to be talking endlessly. I think there's a certain enjoyment to getting to where you can enjoy someone's company in silence.

*nods* Imprisonment is no good. I like it when people can be comfortable in their own ways, be it talking (with others who likewise enjoy it) or in more silent or reflective ways. So that's nice of you to develop strategies for directing conversation when it looks like people are stuck.

this is not at all the situation i had in mind in replying lol. well, maybe emotivism - constructivism in this case?

But that's ok. I like knowing your initial impressions and thoughts. It's a topic that has different facets. I want input, which is why I didn't just stay in my own head.

I admit, that friend's reaction wasn't something I was expecting. Usually for me awkward accompanies me feeling unsure about how I'm presenting myself (and fervently wishing I didn't have to worry about it) and making some sort of social faux pas (usually unaware until much later when I'm reliving the situation ). As I mentioned above, though, I've grown more confident over the years. I figure as long as I'm being kind and interacting up to my own standards, people can think of me what they want.

[Minde]

Only time I'll get pissed is if someone sends some bullshit my way under the guise of a "joke", in which case I'll tear them apart to the best of my ability.

I'd rather people say what's on their heads so I know where I stand, or say something that really sticks out of the monotony that is the usual conversations, like, if you're gonna go through all the effort of blowing all that air through your vocal cords, make it fucking count. I've got a whole world to see and listen to and I don't like empty words clogging shit up.

Probs the coolest people I know to talk to are ones that stand out, not sure if it counts as "awkward" or whatever, but if enough of us get together and make noise, the more the timid and dull people will be on the run, on the defense, unable to establish their illusory social norms. Bring it.

Hello, Se, lol. I'm guessing you'd be one of the people who doesn't care in the same way as that friend I talked to in my anecdote.

I'm very easy and respectful towards others (in the tru Fi way), never view people as awkward but simply individuals, however oftentimes I feel others may view me as awkward even when they don't, more as though I feel I'm put in an awkward situation where negative feelings are potent on the inside due to an inability to relate. This ironically probably doesn't come into effect when people think I am awkward, esp. Fe types.

I relate to this, too. The lack of relating / connecting on a meaningful level seems to be the source of most awkwardness from my own point of view. I'm seeing that others find it in other ways.

I don't know. I'm not even sure how to answer the question regarding myself. I don't make anything less awkward for anyone - that much I know, and I'm not sure I've ever actually tried to make things smoother or more comfortable. But, not sure.

Not knowing is a perfectly good answer. It still gives me more data to ponder. So thank you.

[Minde]

Cool thread Minde!

I'm glad you like it.

If I'm in more of a calm and centered place, I care less about being perceived as awkward and am more in tune with the perceptions of others without going overboard. I think caring less makes me paradoxically less awkward. It's a kind of self consciousness that I don't perceive as helpful in relating to others.

One of the things I've found is that if you don't judge yourself, people pick up on that and tend to judge you less as well. Social interaction is a process, not a goal, and I've found when I approach it as a goal, that is when it becomes the most awkward, because I'm trying to force structure on it - a clear cut beginning and end, a kind of stilted neatness, like I'm writing a paper.

Yes, yes, yes! That makes sense to me, with how as I've grown more centered and confident in my own core that the awkwardness has diminished - at least in terms of how I feel it.

Sometimes I pretend to be awkward to protect myself because I don't feel strong enough for confrontation. At parties if a drunk guy is eyeing me, I play dumb, look at the ground, and avoid eye contact. Not sure if there is a better way to deal with that.

I don't have any suggestions there. : / Often my sister is with me and she either draws the attention herself or gets protective and intercedes. Or drives them off, depending on how she's feeling.

[Creepy-female]

Yes, yes, yes! That makes sense to me, with how as I've grown more centered and confident in my own core that the awkwardness has diminished - at least in terms of how I feel it.

That's a really good place to be.

I don't have any suggestions there. : / Often my sister is with me and she either draws the attention herself or gets protective and intercedes. Or drives them off, depending on how she's feeling.

Your sister is ENFp, right?

I'm not bad at accepting simple, heartfelt, or over the top comments that are offset by subtle or outrageous humor, and I don't even mind swapping sexual innuendos with both sexes if it seems lighthearted or fun. But there's a certain overly sentimental..sappiness that people put out sometimes that just makes me squirm inside like no other. Perhaps it's largely the drunkenness, but I believe I can sense lecherousness sometimes in people and it's very off putting and hard to ignore. I have an uncle that I've always gotten the heebie jeebies from and he's very suddenly in my space and huggy in family situations. I haven't dealt with him for a while which is good. That's just the sort of thing that comes to mind when I think of a situation I find truly and unavoidably awkward.

Or, publicly or privately rejecting someone. That feels super awkward for me too, because I have the urge to protect them, and I relive feelings of my own rejection while rejecting them. Smoothing it over is sooo terribly uncomfortable. I go into mommy mode.

[Minde]

That's a really good place to be.

It's a process of growth. I'm not "there" yet, but, yeah, it's a nice thing to be learning for sure.

Your sister is ENFp, right?

Yes, that type makes the most sense to me. If you go for Smilex-esque subtyping I'd put her toward Fi, with her Se role having shown more prominence in the last few years. Working as a security guard might have had something to do with that...

I'm not bad at accepting simple, heartfelt, or over the top comments that are offset by subtle or outrageous humor, and I don't even mind swapping sexual innuendos with both sexes if it seems lighthearted or fun. But there's a certain overly sentimental..sappiness that people put out sometimes that just makes me squirm inside like no other. Perhaps it's largely the drunkenness, but I believe I can sense lecherousness sometimes in people and it's very off putting and hard to ignore. I have an uncle that I've always gotten the heebie jeebies from and he's very suddenly in my space and huggy in family situations. I haven't dealt with him for a while which is good. That's just the sort of thing that comes to mind when I think of a situation I find truly and unavoidably awkward.

Ugh, that sounds horrible.

Or, publicly or privately rejecting someone. That feels super awkward for me too, because I have the urge to protect them, and I relive feelings of my own rejection while rejecting them. Smoothing it over is sooo terribly uncomfortable. I go into mommy mode.

I'm E9 so I run away. But yeah that's a good perspective to know, thank you.

[ClownsandEntropy]

I haven't noticed any particular trend with types. It's more pronounced when people aren't really "in sync" with each other, which is usually because a) they can't join in the conversation - maybe they're talking about something we don't understand, or it's a private joke - or b) they don't know the people so well, so they don't understand what their angle is (and c) maybe something to do with Socionics types but there are usually other more prominent factors). At times I will be thinking "Wow, this is incredibly awkward," and no one else seems to think so, whereas other times people will say that a situation is awkward or that it was awkward, when I'm surprised that they thought that at all. So I don't think there's a real pattern to sensing/caring when it is awkward.

Unless, like, me being suggestive-Fe means that I don't notice when social environments seem socially awkward and so it's hard for me to judge. But then I wouldn't know.

[Absurd]

Like what?

The situation it happened for you. Like, I said before it can be something of ethical persuasion. Personally, I don't care about it - enter and leave how I want and when I want to, that is, don't really focus on what people think of it, never did. Some group isn't okay with you for being the way you are, well, no love lost.

[squark]

Squark you are like the most non-awkward person ever. You're straight up without being pushy, honest without being rude, and heartfelt. People listen when you speak, and you make them think. You are self possessed, passionate, and down to earth. I think any so called "awkwardness" you would bring to a situation would be simply the silence in which people are a little caught off guard by your insight, because you seem to pop up out of nowhere with a thoughtful reply on the tip of your tongue.

Wow, thank you dolphin!

[mikesilb]

This is so funny... I just started a parallel thread/poll about the role of shyness/social anxiety (in which awkwardness absolutely plays a role in its effects) on type determination without even noticing this particular thread. What a large coincidence!

I am actually interested in precisely the same thing and I just made a poll in order to have a sense of what you all think about this. Wow, great minds think alike!

My gut feeling is that it is independent of BOTH Sociotype and subtype (since I am quite shy at times and I profoundly care about looking awkward in general while still being an extroverted type [ESE] and an extroverted DCNH subtype [Creative/]). Thus, I am starting to lean towards this being an independent measure, detached from all things Socionics. That is my conjecture about this!

[Park]

I often come across as awkward to people, and I'm usually aware of their perception of my awkwardness. I neither see this as a good nor a bad thing, I just acknowledge it for what it is, and sometimes laugh about it. Tends to be good inside jokes material.

As for sensing other people's awkwardness, I think I'm able to pick it up in general, both in group and in one-on-one settings, though I don't actively seek out to find it, like some people do. My reactions to awkwardness can vary from "incredibly cute" to "phoney", from "funny" to "dumb", from "amusing" to "irritating", etc. on a case by case basis.

[jessica129]

I often word things very bluntly and I know it can come across awkwardly but I think it's great and hilarious and I embrace it and I think everyone else should. Normal is boring.

[ClownsandEntropy]

If things are awkward I usually try to ignore it and continue the conversation. Post-event people sometimes tell me that my method seems to be to talkandtalkandtalkandtalk and hope that no one thinks it's awkward.

[Korpsy Knievel]

What is awkwardness?

[Narc]

This is awkwardness:

[blackburry]

^ that was painful.
comedy central. he's purposefully making it so.

[golden]

Anyhow, regarding awkwardness, I just figure awkward is a normal part of life, and it takes many forms.

For example, there can be a good/funny, light and self-aware kind of awkward. When I see it in myself, or in the room, I might purposely call attention to it in a joking way. But this requires a background of no serious conflict potential.

There can also be situations where things are so tense that the only approach I know of is to move toward being very polite and formal and putting a lot of attention on others' needs. A clear example would be having acted as maid of honor at a wedding where the families were not getting along. I spent two days smoothing and smoothing things among people who clearly did not understand one other and had already let a lot of resentment fester.

So ime: Among friends, awkward doesn't matter or can be a source of fun. Among non-friends who must interact anyhow, awkward can be at minimum uncomfortable and at worst blow up into open conflict. Among non-friends who can easily get away from one another, doesn't much matter--in that case, the quality of the awkward might even be a good way to gauge, for instance, whether an acquaintance is worth getting to know better.

Is it type-related? Um, I am guessing that it may have a tenuous connection to type. Some people may care more about whether things feel awkward. Some people may be more inclined than others to try to remedy awkwardness. I sense it acutely and am sometimes surprised that I am either the only person in a social situation who says what everyone is feeling or the only one who actively tries to lessen the problem. Sometimes this may make me meddlesome, and sometimes I know it must be appropriate because I am explicitly thanked later by several people for defusing a social problem they did not know how to address.

[ashlesha]

The only people I really feel natural around are the ones who actively make a point not to give a shit about awkwardness (or maybe they don't even think about it, I can't tell). I usually don't feel awkward unless I feel others feeling awkward.

yea this

[Radio]

I think regardless of whether linguists put "awkward" and "embarrassing" under the same umbrella (with different levels of intensity in discomfort, I guess), they are two separate things. The latter is usually a social situation where the outcome is explicit, and people involved can pin down with certainty that, yeah, there was a social faux-pas involved. The former arises out of uncertainty, where the outcome is not explicit, and you have no idea how to respond and whether they know that you think that there's tension between you two because of something that might or might not have happened. Except, since it hasn't been made explicit, you can't risk talking about it, but you can't just stand there like an asshole either. Of course, embarrassment can lead to awkwardness (when you can't decide whether/how to respond/move on/change the topic), and awkwardness might lead to embarrassment but w/ me usually just ends up in chuckles if they're all as socially oblivious as I am and someone makes known that you know that they know that this is all very awkward.

/brainfart

[Radio]

^ that was in response to blackburry's post which i thought was more of an embarrassing situation, rather than an awkward one.

[blackburry]

 

 

you are quickly putting yourself in the same club as the vultures so I would be careful about your behavior and your judgements if i were you.

furthermore, read your comment; you associate ALL SLE with being bad therefore when you don't like someone you type them SLE; how narrow minded of you. You create an atmosphere of misconceptions.

How about we take this OUTSIDE?


I am so sick of you. You are a HORRIBLE human being. there I said. You play dumb. Yes, you are dumb, but you play the part of being even more dumb like you deserve an Oscar.

You must know I have no actual misconceptions of types. They are labels we choose to throw around. They do not define a person. I called you an asshole (because you are an asshole) and used your means of typing people (ie throwing around types based on actual and purposeful misconceptions of someone's words and/or personality). How can you not see I used the same tactics that you do?
I don't like you, therefore you can not possibly be EII. How does that not ring a bell? (hint: you constantly do it). Why don't you ever self-reflect on anything anyone ever says to you? Doesn't it bother you that people think you are mean and insincere? How can so many people be wrong in their observations? I think it's time you ask yourself why do you constantly feel the need to try to push yourself, your views, your judgments onto other people?
You could be so much more of joy if you stopped being an ass. You're not fooling anyone: ever going to realize that?

and ^sorry I began typing that before I hit refresh and saw this last post. I won't mention it again


regarding radios post: yep, actually you're quite right, that's more embarrassing than awkward. With that definition then I usually call attention to awkwardness in a joking manner unless the reason it is so is primarily because of something I did and am ashamed of. And that type of situation doesn't happen anywhere near how often embarrassing moments happen for me.


*edit: (I didn't want this: "My LSE sister is such a dick to me about this.
She constantly used to notice when I was being awkward and would call attention to it to whoever happened to be around."

to be my 1000th post.)

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I find that I care about awkwardness, though I tend to swing between trying not to be too awkward and tossing out something awkward on purpose (trolling for reactions is fun). Generally speaking, though, I appreciate people with whom I can discuss typically awkward subjects without being looked at like I have two heads. I don't know whether it's type-related, but I wonder whether Fi-PoLRs would be less concerned with this sort of thing.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I can see this sort of "awkwardness" in others and will give them tactical advice if it's someone I care about or who is useful to my purposes, but in general I do not personally experience this sensation and find it strange when others are preoccupied with it.