Solf J. Kimblee (Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood)

[FarDraft]

EDIT: My conclusion is that he's SLE. The ILI idea doesn't hold up when put to greater scrutiny.

Clearly Se valuing. My initial thought was SLE > LIE. However, this video makes me seriously consider ILI despite his abundance of Se. He seems to fit the "critic" label almost perfectly, not having a stake in the actions of those around him but pointing out the inconsistencies and hypocrisies of their words in comparison to their actions. He has a small number of principles by which he lives, but he doesn't treat them as axioms, rather more like truths he's observed by seeing people's motivations very clearly.

The video goes into more detail, so I won't repeat it. If you're skeptical, I strongly recommend it, as it presents a number of points that lead me to consider ILI. It's not about socionics, though. Spoiler warning for FMAB.



I should mention that this is by no means a comprehensive analysis of his type. It's just an idea that I think holds some water. Feel free to criticize it.

[Varlawend]

Clearly Se valuing. My initial thought was SLE > LIE. However, this video makes me seriously consider ILI despite his abundance of Se. He seems to fit the "critic" label almost perfectly, not having a stake in the actions of those around him but pointing out the inconsistencies and hypocrisies of their words in comparison to their actions. He has a small number of principles by which he lives, but he doesn't treat them as axioms, rather more like truths he's observed by seeing people's motivations very clearly.

The video goes into more detail, so I won't repeat it. If you're skeptical, I strongly recommend it, as it presents a number of points that lead me to consider ILI. It's not about socionics, though. Spoiler warning for FMAB.



I should mention that this is by no means a comprehensive analysis of his type. It's just an idea that I think holds some water. Feel free to criticize it.

It may interest you to know that Gulenko sees a certain similarity between Semi-Duals like SLE and ILI! So it could make sense that a more aggressive ILI would have some SLE characteristics.

Here is the paper: https://translate.google.com/transla...00190,15700201

Specifically, this part is interesting:

2. Managerial bias.

The seeker seeks for a comfortable, independent work with a tangible result, is engaged in repair and promotional activities as a master.

The critic in the working mode, being the chief, sometimes controls rigidly, authoritarianly, removes the disagreeable and disobedient, which demonstrates a shift towards the Marshal.

Enthusiast feels certain managerial abilities, seeks to observe justice, to control the actions of others as an Inspector.

The keeper in the work moves to the administrative side - he works hard, takes care of his subordinates, worries about deadlines. His behavior resembles the style of the Administrator.

Also, I would add, from this article: https://socioniks.net/article/?id=267

Intuition of time T
High level: reason, wisdom, strategy, foresight, imagination, depth, imagery, vision of the future or past, meaning of life, philosophy, psychology, archetypes, parallel or hidden world.
Primitive level: mysticism, detachment, superstition, fear, self-digging, unreasonable states of anguish, apathy, depression, strange habits, eccentricities, sociopathy.

[FarDraft]

It may interest you to know that Gulenko sees a certain similarity between Semi-Duals like SLE and ILI! So it could make sense that a more aggressive ILI would have some SLE characteristics.

Here is the paper: https://translate.google.com/transla...00190,15700201

Specifically, this part is interesting:





Also, I would add, from this article: https://socioniks.net/article/?id=267

'

That's interesting. I've also heard that benefit types can look alike from a member on this forum, though I haven't been able to find a source to substantiate that claim.
Do you mind linking the specific article in which the idea that semi-duals are similar is written? What you have linked right now leads to a google translate article about Gulenko.

[Varlawend]

'

That's interesting. I've also heard that benefit types can look alike from a member on this forum, though I haven't been able to find a source to substantiate that claim.
Do you mind linking the specific article in which the idea that semi-duals are similar is written? What you have linked right now leads to a google translate article about Gulenko.

Ah, my apologies, I thought I linked the article: http://www.socioniko.net/ru/articles/thes02.html

[Exodus]

SLEs have leading Se and demonstrative Te, so they can easily be devil-may-care opportunists. Kimblee is relatively consistent as an SLE.

[Varlawend]

SLEs have leading Se and demonstrative Te, so they can easily be devil-may-care opportunists. Kimblee is relatively consistent as an SLE.

Absolutely not.

If you had actually read the most recent Gulenko theory, then you would know that people like Kimblee who have two subtypes can transform at will into their Semi-Dual. That proves ILI beyond a shadow of doubt. He’s close to reaching a total of three subtypes, but he hasn’t quite made it yet; that would allow him access to the fifth dimension of the communicative space in which he could change his type at will.

What’s especially tricky about this guy is that he has a very strange Keirsey-Nardi type which avails him a new information aspect, Aether. You can read whisperings about it here: http://socionist.blogspot.com/2017/0...ction.html?m=1

It is also mentioned in Jung’s writings on Active Imagination, and the integrative faculty of fantasy which makes up the very fabric of our dreams and visions emanating from the seat of the soul. The threat posed by such people cannot be overstated; they may claw at the deepest recesses of our soul even through the fantasy genre, like the Fanged Noumena of the collective unconscious.

[Aylen]

Absolutely not.

If you had actually read the most recent Gulenko theory, then you would know that people like Kimblee who have two subtypes can transform at will into their Semi-Dual. That proves ILI beyond a shadow of doubt. He’s close to reaching a total of three subtypes, but he hasn’t quite made it yet; that would allow him access to the fifth dimension of the communicative space in which he could change his type at will.

What’s especially tricky about this guy is that he has a very strange Keirsey-Nardi type which avails him a new information aspect, Aether. You can read whisperings about it here: http://socionist.blogspot.com/2017/0...ction.html?m=1

It is also mentioned in Jung’s writings on Active Imagination, and the integrative faculty of fantasy which makes up the very fabric of our dreams and visions emanating from the seat of the soul. The threat posed by such people cannot be overstated; they may claw at the deepest recesses of our soul even through the fantasy genre, like the Fanged Noumena of the collective unconscious.

I saw that awhile ago on Rick's blog and thought it was satire or something since I couldn't find any other reference.

[Varlawend]

I saw that awhile ago on Rick's blog and thought it was satire or something since I couldn't find any other reference.

It is both satire and reality, so your impressions were not inaccurate. Satire can be strange this way, tapping into unconscious elements that people can't approach through straight language for all manner of reasons. Comedy has a similar function. One can learn more about the function from other sources:

http://jungiancenter.org/wp/jung-on-...dent-function/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003DM3QSA/

In the reviews of this book, there is some interesting controversy:

Definitely worth reading, as long as we realize that not one of the ideas under discussion actually derive from Jung's mind.

As Lucy Huskinson devastatingly reveals in her book "Nietzsche and Jung," Jung's debt to Nietzsche was not acknowledged by Jung. Great as he was in his own area, there is not a major idea to be found in Jung's corpus that originated with him. It was all there in the work of predecessors, not only Nietzsche, but Schopenhauer, Hegel, and in particular Schelling and Blake. The last two thinkers are never referred to by Jung, yet it is their ideas that he cut and pasted into his own work.

...

Whether any of that is true, I cannot say. Dark characters like Kimblee, however, certainly tap into areas of the mind that most forbid themselves from peering into. Maybe this is for good reason.

[Exodus]

Absolutely not.

If you had actually read the most recent Gulenko theory, then you would know that people like Kimblee who have two subtypes can transform at will into their Semi-Dual. That proves ILI beyond a shadow of doubt. He’s close to reaching a total of three subtypes, but he hasn’t quite made it yet; that would allow him access to the fifth dimension of the communicative space in which he could change his type at will.

What’s especially tricky about this guy is that he has a very strange Keirsey-Nardi type which avails him a new information aspect, Aether. You can read whisperings about it here: http://socionist.blogspot.com/2017/0...ction.html?m=1

It is also mentioned in Jung’s writings on Active Imagination, and the integrative faculty of fantasy which makes up the very fabric of our dreams and visions emanating from the seat of the soul. The threat posed by such people cannot be overstated; they may claw at the deepest recesses of our soul even through the fantasy genre, like the Fanged Noumena of the collective unconscious.

whoaaaa

[nefnaf]

You ought to realize that fictional characters are not conscious beings and do not possess a psyche, and thus are not amenable to analysis of their (non-existent) psyche. At best we can speculate about the real-world inspiration for these characters as far as sociotype. Historical figures known only from second-hand accounts are problematic for similar reasons.

Now if you wish to analyze or assess the voice actors, writers, artists, or perhaps real-world inspirations behind these characters, you may at least in principle be able to do this. But that is a very different sort of project.

[FarDraft]

You ought to realize that fictional characters are not conscious beings and do not possess a psyche, and thus are not amenable to analysis of their (non-existent) psyche. At best we can speculate about the real-world inspiration for these characters as far as sociotype. Historical figures known only from second-hand accounts are problematic for similar reasons.

Now if you wish to analyze or assess the voice actors, writers, artists, or perhaps real-world inspirations behind these characters, you may at least in principle be able to do this. But that is a very different sort of project.

Strictly speaking, you are correct that fictional characters are not conscious beings and do not possess a psyche. However, if a character is well written, meaning that their psyche is meant to mimic that of a human, then why shouldn't we be able to type them? Perhaps the qualm is that a character's purpose is to further some plot point rather than to be an individual. That may be the case, but it depends on the character. If the character is poorly written, then abstracting it to some real-world approximation may be the best method of typing. However, if the character is well written, then, by definition, typing the real-world representation/archetype should be equivalent to typing the character since the character accurately portrays a possible real-world individual. Does Kimblee satisfy this? I think so, given that psychopathic devil-may-care opportunists exist in this world and would probably act similar to Kimblee, albeit in different circumstances. Think of a psychopathic con-man who has to travel frequently to make a quick buck, only driven by the desire to make more money, like Kimblee only has the desire to kill/fight. I'd argue that Kimblee is a developed character in that he has his own motivations, goals, beliefs, and self-directed actions while he simultaneously represents the subjects of realism, futility, the irredeemability of war, etc within the anime. Since that is the case, speculating Kimblee would be to speculate an exemplar of the real-world inspiration of archetype that exists, which means that typing him is completely possible. If you have a case to be made that a character like Kimblee could never exist or is not an accurate representation of a psychopathic devil-may-care opportunist (which do exist), then that's a different argument.

I think that fictional characters are different than historical figures since typing historical figures is limited because of a lack of reliable information, not because the figure could be unrealistic. By definition, they can't, and so we should, in theory, be able to type them, though we'd have to be very careful in our use of information if we were to actually do so. For example, we shouldn't overblow certain facts or forget that societal standards change over time.

An example of where we can't meaningfully type characters would be in an anime like Fate/Zero. The characters in that show were each purposefully written to convey a particular ideology. Thus, to type them would be to associate the most likely ideology for each type, which is doable but uninsightful in that it doesn't help us understand the characters better but rather simply categorize their beliefs according to some standard (the socionics profiles).

[Aylen]

A lot of the fictional character typings on the forum are more MBTI-ish than socionics. More stereotype than archetype. We see what we want to see in them. If a writer can do that and make me continue the character's story after it ends then I consider them a pretty good writer. This is why you see NFs and SFs say they relate to certain fictional characters (or celebs) to the point of arguing over the character's type.

I remember my crush on Vincent Valentine because he was all mysterious and broody. First thing I did when I joined the forum was type him ILI. Perfectly fit the image of my "star crossed lovers" due to tragic fate theme. None of this had anything to do with socionics or with ILI specifically. I just had it in my mind his character and my ex were the same. They actually weren't, other than being mysterious and broody. It was all in my head. I guess when others typed him other types it then hit me I had my own private associations that had nothing to do with socionics.

[FarDraft]

A lot of the fictional character typings on the forum are more MBTI-ish than socionics. More stereotype than archetype. We see what we want to see in them. If a writer can do that and make me continue the character's story after it ends then I consider them a pretty good writer. This is why you see NFs and SFs say they relate to certain fictional characters (or celebs) to the point of arguing over the character's type.

I remember my crush on Vincent Valentine because he was all mysterious and broody. First thing I did when I joined the forum was type him ILI. Perfectly fit the image of my "star crossed lovers" due to tragic fate theme. None of this had anything to do with socionics or with ILI specifically. I just had it in my mind his character and my ex were the same. They actually weren't, other than being mysterious and broody. It was all in my head. I guess when others typed him other types it then hit me I had my own private associations that had nothing to do with socionics.

I do find this to be the case. Unfortunately, because they are fictional characters, people treat them as archetypes rather than individuals even if they're well written. You end up with stereotypes, like you said. MBTI fictional typings are hilariously stupid, and I hope this subforum doesn't turn into that since there's a lot of be gained by the world we can create in our heads. Since I enjoy these works, I try to type them accurately so as to perhaps understand the characters better because even if we use socionics as a categorization tool, it still has some predictive power in other areas. It's therefore in my best interest to type them impartially and be led by knowledge and understanding of the characters.

I'll be honest, I relate to Kimblee in many ways (though I'm not a bloodthirsty psychopath). I find his indifferent, observer demeanour akin to my own and his desire to criticize the opinions of others rather than to form his own very familiar. I won't judge whether these are good or bad since that's besides the point. That information alone was not enough to convince me he was an ILI since those are very high-level traits. However, the (non-socionics) analysis done to his character in this video gave me a lot of similar information that's presented in the ILI profiles, which led me to consider that possibility. I haven't yet confirmed anything since my knowledge about SLEs is limited in comparison to my knowledge about ILIs. In fact, if I am indeed an ILI, being attracted (non-romantically, obviously, I ain't no weeb) to my semi-dual wouldn't be considered out of the ordinary. Perhaps the similarities I'm seeing are correct, but I'm inflating them to traits that are similar but require quite a bit more Se. It's the same problem I'm having with typing Nine from Zankyou no Terror.

I think that being so passionate about these typings is frankly stupid. I understand that people feel empathy towards fictional characters, but identifying yourself with any ideal I find to be more harmful than good. Art is meant to help us learn about ourselves (at some level), not to impose our existence in a nonexistent world.