The Occult

[Pole]

Is the occult and other dark arts mostly a Beta thing? Who else is drawn to it?
I was first introduced to it when I was a devout Christian. I was learning about rock and roll history and discovered that the vast majority of musicians had a fondness for the occult. I studied what it was as a way to protect myself as a Christian. When I left my faith in 2010 I allowed myself to indulge in occultic studies. Then the rat race sucked me in and it was put on the back burner. Very recently I've taken an interest once again. Are there others here who have similar interests?
Discuss.

[at sirac son of sirac]

The occult typically comes with Ni - constructs of belief.

And Se - dabbling in occult to gain physical/wordly power.

And with Ti to give it some logical census, because it's difficult to use good Te to support it.

So yes, mostly Beta.

I had a look into occult things before - everyone likes a good ghost story. I read some David Icke books, some which were interesting but didn't stand up to any scrutiny. For instance, the 'supposed experimental proof' of emotions forming shapes in ice crystals - nothing was mentioned about how the experiments were totally unscientific, even faked.

It seems to me mostly a trap to pull people into other stuff, drink drugs etc, like you mentioned with the rock star focus.

[hatchback176]

The Occult is just anal sex. The intentional triggering of disgust, anxiety, and spontaneous bowel movement.

[Desert Financial]

As above, so below.

[Adam Strange]

As above, so below.

I saw this comment and thought it was in the pubic hair thread.

[Desert Financial]

I saw this comment and thought it was in the pubic hair thread.

[rat200Turbo]

You have to be extremely weary of becoming a crackpot. It's very easy to swallow 1 part truth and 1 part insanity... Usually the truly insightful individuals are very weary of talking about things because they know people will misinterpret what is said or recklessly abuse their insight. It is best to half-ignore by default most of what you ever hear or learn... distill the undeniable correlations and make sense out of them, figure out the limits of the knowledge, separate the real knowledge from the filler mixed with it... in doing so you can find the true hidden knowledge which on some level you already know to be self-evident.

Something alot of people do is they deny possibilities by simply asserting their established viewpoint... to really explore strange topics you have to obsessively invalidate your own viewpoint. You cannot just assert "these are my beliefs, because I like what they do for me"...
Then... simultaneously, you never truly accept the adopted viewpoint. You just glance at it and examine it then move onward. Another thing many fail, pseudo-enlightened individuals do is they latch onto delusion out of just an affinity for the strange, or maybe it feeds their identity or it integrates with their sex lives.
So you have to maintain simultaneous closure and openness.
Over time.. ironically, you must eventually come to believe that the whole field of inquiry is irrelevant and reject most of what you ever knew and learned, to rediscover your true unknowing, open state (and thats not an easy thing to do, I'd recommend just never bothering with the whole endeavor honestly).

The fact you're calling yourself a 'student of the occult' means you are overidentifying with the occult, you are latching on to the occult to prop up your missing identity and probably attempting to assert a sexual identity, which means you're already on your way to being a typical fail pseudo-enlightened basketcase.

[Pole]

You have to be extremely weary of becoming a crackpot. It's very easy to swallow 1 part truth and 1 part insanity... Usually the truly insightful individuals are very weary of talking about things because they know people will misinterpret what is said or recklessly abuse their insight. It is best to half-ignore by default most of what you ever hear or learn... distill the undeniable correlations and make sense out of them, figure out the limits of the knowledge, separate the real knowledge from the filler mixed with it... in doing so you can find the true hidden knowledge which on some level you already know to be self-evident.

Something alot of people do is they deny possibilities by simply asserting their established viewpoint... to really explore strange topics you have to obsessively invalidate your own viewpoint. You cannot just assert "these are my beliefs, because I like what they do for me"...
Then... simultaneously, you never truly accept the adopted viewpoint. You just glance at it and examine it then move onward. Another thing many fail, pseudo-enlightened individuals do is they latch onto delusion out of just an affinity for the strange, or maybe it feeds their identity or it integrates with their sex lives.
So you have to maintain simultaneous closure and openness.
Over time.. ironically, you must eventually come to believe that the whole field of inquiry is irrelevant and reject most of what you ever knew and learned, to rediscover your true unknowing, open state (and thats not an easy thing to do, I'd recommend just never bothering with the whole endeavor honestly).

The fact you're calling yourself a 'student of the occult' means you are overidentifying with the occult, you are latching on to the occult to prop up your missing identity and probably attempting to assert a sexual identity, which means you're already on your way to being a typical fail pseudo-enlightened basketcase.

Thank you, but I know how to think for myself. Nice touch with the false concern, and assumptions about my inner motives and frail identity.

[rat200Turbo]

No, the fact you are engaging the public in this type of discussion proves you have no idea what you are discussing and that you are merely trying to assert an identity.
Your pubescent, publicly proclaimed rejection of your religion is further proof of that.
If you were to listen to me and humble yourself than you would benefit, but you won't do that.

[Adam Strange]

No, the fact you are engaging the public in this type of discussion proves you have no idea what you are discussing and that you are merely trying to assert an identity.
Your pubescent, publicly proclaimed rejection of your religion is further proof of that.
If you were to listen to me and humble yourself than you would benefit, but you won't do that.

Captured for posterity.

[rat200Turbo]

?

Mind your own business you brainless try hard.

[Chae]

Very interested person here

Now, my 2 cents. The Occult is about intuition and therefore applies and might appeal to all types. Both intuitions arrive at the same conclusion about "source", just the process is different.

- Mystery and wisdom concerning existence that manifests in symbolic realms. Usually, a cycle is involved. Pondering and diving into fate and life path, (old) souls and their journey, reincarnation, afterlife, birth-to-death, these things. It's about finding what is meant to be through unlocking why we are here, and that leads to the occult where you receive answers about where we come from and where we are going, usually in the form of glyphs that signify a certain purpose and movement. Think of Persian and Egyptian grave murals, full of history and what people are destined to be/do. Nowadays: All from Zodiac to Tarot to numerology... and that's just the mainstream surface. Blocked with this becomes emotionally therapeutic reverence, with is becomes commercial.

- "Occult" literally translates to what is secret, and as we know Ne uncovers/discovers what is hidden, sees through things for the bigger picture. means to peel off all the onion layers to get to the core of things. In spiritual circles this is all about what initiated existence, source energy that creates potential, it is the secret backdrop of what we do. There is a realization that we must make, oh - I am so small in this universe, but still part of this entirety (=oneness). That's the perspective that occurs. With it becomes a feeling of unity with others, with it becomes a theory of beginnings. Many occult things have elaborate origin stories, did you notice? "And suddenly! Out of nowhere! Things were created in great variety!"

[Pole]

@Chae
TY for the insightful 2 cents : )

[Crispy]

If you are interested in learning how Kabbalists use Gematria to create Rigged Sports, Fake News, and Celebrity Murder, I’d recommend this blog: http://freetofindtruth.blogspot.com/?m=1

Warning: Will look VERY unfamiliar/random/coincedental upon first few glances.

[Pole]

@Pole, sorry for contributing to the derail. When I hear the phrase "If you were to listen to me and humble yourself then you would benefit", my brain flips out, I lose all caution and I want to kill. My mother used to tell me something like that while hitting me. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.
My apologies to you for letting the filters slip for a few seconds.

My mom was the same way. I was mad for a second when I read just one comment of his about "becoming a basketcase" but now I'm just passing the time.

[Pole]

Holy shit, @Pole. You and I are both 836's.

Whoa! lol. I think my brother is also the same, as a kid he wanted to be batman and to this day he would love to fight for the weak and drive a lambo LOL

[Adam Strange]

Whoa! lol. I think my brother is also the same, as a kid he wanted to be batman and to this day he would love to fight for the weak and drive a lambo LOL

Lol, I wanted to be Batman and Superman combined. Batman because he's a thinker, and Superman because he can't be hurt.
I like fast cars, too, but don't need a lambo. I wouldn't turn one down, though.

[Pole]

Lol, I wanted to be Batman and Superman combined. Batman because he's a thinker, and Superman because he can't be hurt.
I like fast cars, too, but don't need a lambo. I wouldn't turn one down, though.

I detail cars for a living now and I get to sit inside lambos everyday, but I can't drive any of them lol. I like batman because he's self made, he doesn't have some vague back story about how he got his super powers, he just became batman because he wanted to.

[hatchback176]

So you start by researching The Occult because of Rock n' Roll. Yet we're supposed to pretend that rockstars of all people are keyed in to ancient paths of wisdom? Give me a break. It's stupid rebellion to get kids into drugs and sex.

[Bertrand]

its also sort of ironic how we're on a board based on Jung who spent a significant amount of time handling the topic and related phenomena in probably the most erudite way ever done, yet it seems like everyone does everything in their power to investigate anything but him. the main reason people like the rock star version is its just easy to absorb and carries with it the requisite image people are really after

[at sirac son of sirac]

its also sort of ironic how we're on a board based on Jung who spent a significant amount of time handling the topic and related phenomena in probably the most erudite way ever done, yet it seems like everyone does everything in their power to investigate anything but him. the main reason people like the rock star version is its just easy to absorb and carries with it the requisite image people are really after

I've thought about this a little bit before, some of Jungs stuff is just too far out there for me, but I think there's something to psychological types.

Similarly maybe, I can like some of Gulenkos stuff, but not all his stuff, not even the high level theorizing of socionics, which I think is Ti and Ne taken to an extreme - a logical loop to encompass everything based on many other unproven but logical loops - too much for me, but it maybe passes his time though, so fair play to him.

[hatchback176]

If you ever wonder who is ignoring reality and creating the space for all these degenerate shadow selves look no further than SLI's. The extremes are where the actual problems with society are at.

[Chae]

@Chae
TY for the insightful 2 cents : )

[The Reality Denialist]

that onion layer stuff is holographic panoramic cognition style (like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cXmzfkUtNw). Not to be confused with . In fact it includes PoLR. I stick with my causal axioms, thank you very much.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Very interested person here

- "Occult" literally translates to what is secret, and as we know Ne uncovers/discovers what is hidden, sees through things for the bigger picture. means to peel off all the onion layers to get to the core of things. In spiritual circles this is all about what initiated existence, source energy that creates potential, it is the secret backdrop of what we do. There is a realization that we must make, oh - I am so small in this universe, but still part of this entirety (=oneness). That's the perspective that occurs. With it becomes a feeling of unity with others, with it becomes a theory of beginnings. Many occult things have elaborate origin stories, did you notice? "And suddenly! Out of nowhere! Things were created in great variety!"

This isn't what Ne does, but it's a text type reading of it rather than a living example of it.

Ne doesn't really 'peel of layers of onions' - it might do if it's Ne blocked with Fi, but what Ne does when it means 'potential' and 'hidden' is to combine one external with another external into wholeness.

I don't have Ne so I can only give you an example of Ne from someone else.

Socionically

An IEE I know who became interested in socionics, and intuitively combined socionics with anthropology, that is, to combine the court and societal 'honor' system of Japanese society - Fe, with the burden of 'self-guilt' and 'telling the truth' which is the court and societal expectations of Western society which is Fi.

ie, ... it is a shame vs guilt thing.

So combining socionics, with cultural and societal living across the world. It's combining externals with externals to create a unified external picture.

That's Ne.

I know you don't (or probably don't) want to entertain the idea of 'not being IEE' but ... you don't express Ne! But you are still a wonderful person

[Sol]

Ni related. But all types may use it. Religions are part of occult practice.
Check that recent thread, for example.

[Sol]

I'm naturally skeptical about such things

There is a lot what deserves scepsis as there is no reasonable known basis for many, and hence some is either partly wrong and works only with unknown conditions or totally wrong. The main problem is that to work (when _you_ do the impact) it generally needs you to believe in this. So if something did not work - it may be because of lack of faith, not because it's impossible in principle. The other problem is - it's unknown where real limits are.
I experimented with what fits to telepathy stuff and seems it worked in principle. Good or not, but it worked. For example, I "called" with positive result the human which I wanted to see/meet for several times. I just went to walk and met in near days. It worked not always, but statistical limit was passed clearly. There is lot of things which may be done by telepathy, in case it's real - reading and impact, with a concrete human or even with a group. Besides impacts for own needs, it affects other regions as ethics, politics, religion,... - as people are not isolated individs, we are partly a brood. This leads to egregors effects as part of collective unconscious.
Astrology, numerology, etc wannabe-reasonable things seems are a kind of guessing practice. This may work on similar irrational principles or not work (be an illusion). I'm trusting more to classical - normal guessing by random tools, or better direct intuitive visions. Also I saw several times when a variant of guessing like "signes" worked, - when you await nothing concrete and then accidentally notice something rare or strange, begin analyse and see answers which you'd want to get.
I communicated for some time with people playing with such things and saw not a single time when they guessed correctly (not always, sometimes) what they could not get rationally and what could not be explained by statistics. So I'm seriously relate to some kinds of guessing practices, at least did by some people. I think it's possible to intuitively predict a future (probably partly making it by this), to feel the past or to know what is far from you, - mb not only by telepathy effects and due to "thinking" of our unconscious.

[Pallas]

I know you don't (or probably don't) want to entertain the idea of 'not being IEE' but ... you don't express Ne! But you are still a wonderful person

Chae got EIE on Subteigh's test. She should join Beta, except there was an ancient thread where I was typing countries and cultures and said Germanic = Beta. I don't think that's accurate though.

And according to your description only Ne-egos could type anyone, since I see that as just typing guilt = Fe, shame = Fi and explaining anthropology in terms of sоciоnics rather than "combining" them externally. I'm saving "all typing of other people is Ne you cute weak little infantile type" for future reference though. Maybe this is why it can be legit hard to tell Ne from Ni and Se from Si like niffer and a lot of actual authors have said, but everyone here is deadly allergic to because "we're strong and aggressive here, not little crying babies obviously!"

[at sirac son of sirac]

Chae got EIE on Subteigh's test. She should join Beta, except there was an ancient thread where I was typing countries and cultures and said Germanic = Beta. I don't think that's accurate though.

And according to your description only Ne-egos could type anyone, since I see that as just typing guilt = Fe, shame = Fi and explaining anthropology in terms of sоciоnics rather than "combining" them. I'm saving "all typing of other people is Ne you cute weak little infantile type" for future reference though.

I dont wish to get involved in politics or who likes or don't likes, but I didn't say anything you're attaching to me, so what could you expect me to do.

I suppose I could explain a bit more of culture.

In for instance, Japan, traditionally at least there are (were) things like 'Mishima', honor killings. which involves someone who's been publicly shamed, restoring their honor in the eyes of people and the honor of their families. The public examination or right or wrong next to others is more of an Fe thing.

With our court system, people are expected to feel guilt, and we pay for our crimes and do the time, change our ways, our attitudes etc, it's about the person and moral expectations and guilt, Fi related.

None of these things are anything to do with having an ability to type other people, it's is part of a bigger example I provided, of Ne in action.

You're either trolling me or you don't understand, I don't know, or something else maybe, or maybe I don't understand - that's what usually happens

All the best

[Chae]

I would have thought this analogy would relate more so to Ni?

Essence is all about . The ultimate to which something can be boiled down to. Hence is a static element, looking from all angles, changing in staccato. would look at the development as you peel off the layers. That would be (de-)crescendo if we apply the analogy here. Do you get what I mean?

[at sirac son of sirac]

Essence is all about . The ultimate to which something can be boiled down to. Hence is a static element, looking from all angles, changing in staccato. would look at the development as you peel off the layers. That would be (de-)crescendo if we apply the analogy here. Do you get what I mean?

Introverted functions are more about reducing, essence, peeling onion. Ti reducing to the structure of logic, Si reducing the sensations to what's pleasing to the body, comfort etc, next to Se expanding and working to manipulate the external environment.

You're speaking Ni for Ne.

[someoneaskedmetofly]

I've heard essences are causal thinking style.

[Chae]

This isn't what Ne does, but it's a text type reading of it rather than a living example of it.

Ne doesn't really 'peel of layers of onions' - it might do if it's Ne blocked with Fi, but what Ne does when it means 'potential' and 'hidden' is to combine one external with another external into wholeness.

I don't have Ne so I can only give you an example of Ne from someone else.

Socionically

An IEE I know who became interested in socionics, and intuitively combined socionics with anthropology, that is, to combine the court and societal 'honor' system of Japanese society - Fe, with the burden of 'self-guilt' and 'telling the truth' which is the court and societal expectations of Western society which is Fi.

ie, ... it is a shame vs guilt thing.

So combining socionics, with cultural and societal living across the world. It's combining externals with externals to create a unified external picture.

That's Ne.

I know you don't (or probably don't) want to entertain the idea of 'not being IEE' but ... you don't express Ne! But you are still a wonderful person

See post I made above about the layers.

And well my typing threads are open, if the reasoning is good I can change my TIM no problem. Recent forum consensus is only ExFx anyway so not much is to contest concerning IEE as the placeholder. Not expressing in what way? Maybe it's only my weak understanding of elements that's going on, I suspect this.

[Chae]

Introverted functions are more about reducing, essence, peeling onion. Ti reducing to the structure of logic, Si reducing the sensations to what's pleasing to the body, comfort etc, next to Se expanding and working to manipulate the external environment.

You're speaking Ni for Ne.

Hm okay, interesting take on it. as an integrative element I mean, worth keeping in mind.

[at sirac son of sirac]

See post I made above about the layers.

And well my typing threads are open, if the reasoning is good I can change my TIM no problem. Recent forum consensus is only ExFx anyway so not much is to contest concerning IEE as the placeholder. Not expressing in what way? Maybe it's only my weak understanding of elements that's going on, I suspect this.

OK, sorry if it was a bit blunt, I felt this a little when I said, but I thought the post was good enough to stay though.

I feel i've exhausted my want to talk of it anymore, or for now - too much Beta NFs just now asking weird questions (not meaning you haha). So i'll maybe pick it up later, but my post #34 here is OK enough as part of what's being discussed. Cheers.

[Chae]

Are the cognitive styles really a good method to use?

[at sirac son of sirac]

Are the cognitive styles really a good method to use?

Overcomplicating things imo - takes a degree in cog styles to be able to apply, better stick to the more mainstream things, then further theories are useful to consider once the building blocks are there.

[Chae]

OK, sorry if it was a bit blunt, I felt this a little when I said, but I thought the post was good enough to stay though.

I feel i've exhausted my want to talk of it anymore, or for now - too much Beta NFs just now asking weird questions (not meaning you haha). So i'll maybe pick it up later, but my post #34 here is OK enough as part of what's being discussed. Cheers.

Okay!

[Chae]

Chae got EIE on Subteigh's test. She should join Beta, except there was an ancient thread where I was typing countries and cultures and said Germanic = Beta. I don't think that's accurate though.

Oh Tatsache, ja dann steht mir nichts mehr im Weg. Ich habe nicht ganz verstanden was Satz 1 mit Satz 2 zu Tun hat Der Test - hm, war einer von vielen, ich bin immer zwischen EIE und IEE in diesen Dingen, schwer zu sagen.

[someoneaskedmetofly]

I don't know about the theory being so advanced, but I'd still say consider them. It'll take you about 20 minutes to read through the descriptions.
I'd also say they simplify things as they reduce the issue to possible four types from different quadras, let alone the types themselves being pretty different.