I think IEI is most likely. Ni/Ne valuing isn't too clear but you do seem Se valuing and the descriptions of characteristics you like in others matches up with SLE. Delta NF doesn't seem likely.
I think IEI is most likely. Ni/Ne valuing isn't too clear but you do seem Se valuing and the descriptions of characteristics you like in others matches up with SLE. Delta NF doesn't seem likely.
Thanks everyone who participated in this thread. To be honest I only feel more doubtful than before so I guess I just overanalyze stuff that is not worth it all that much. I should probably take a break from socionics for a while.
What's relaxation? Never heard of that word!Originally Posted by Myst
Sounds like a very obscure type of concept.
Lol I just saw your profile. NiNe is a good type for you
@Owl I wanted to add why I said Ne/Fi in ego for your 80q here. Disclaimer: since your earlier post about you getting confused etc was not very clear on whether you have a problem with the topic of typing, let me know if you absolutely don't want that.
So:
Q: "Please explain: "Freedom is in complying with the laws, but not in ignoring the laws"? Do you agree with the statement? Why?"
You said: "I do agree, as I said before, it's important to follow you own self, however violating anyone else's freedom of that choice is an abuse."
Fi answer to a question in the Ti block. It's Fi because you don't define explicitly what this freedom in terms of your own self means. It's a more feelings based concept that can't be defined by Ti. Fe is also not Ti but Ti can still arrange Fe emotional states for actions, while it can't organize Fi concepts. Make sense?
Q: "What is boorishness? Does your understanding of it correlate with the generally accepted notion? How would you explain what boorishness mean to a 10 year old child?"
You said: "Boorishness is an insensitive interaction with other people, or insensitive action that might have a negative effect. I do value polite and sensitive approach to others. I do try to be nice and respectful of others."
Textbook Delta Fi approach, assuming this is natural to you.
Q: "How would you improve the moral of the society?"
You said: "I think we live in a society that is too elitary and create unnecessary differences between people. I think we should be more open and tolerant as well as we should value equality and respect far more."
Very Delta Ne-Fi view. Literally matches definitions on what Delta Ne-Fi is like. Again textbook.
Q: "Give us your understanding of love. Can you love and punish at the same time?"
You said: "Love is a feeling of mutal understanding and attraction. It's about sharing your self with someone else and feeling it's right for both of you. I can love and punsh at the same time, I do not see love in black and white terms."
Bolded is Fi. Textbook blah blah (for the rest of the quotes too).
Q: "Are there any norms of behavior in the society? Do you follow them? Do people always have to follow them? Why?"
You said: "Of course there are norms in society. I do follow them in order to make sure I do not insult other people, but I also try to adapt to what people need on the individual level, because everyone sees those things a bit differently. It's important to follow them, to be able to remain in positive relationships."
Fi view.
Q: "Can you change the emotional state of yourself? Of others? To what side – positive or negative?"
"You said: I like to play with my own emotions, but I respect the emotional privacy and integrity of others. I usually use music, movies, art or books to change my own emotional states."
The bolded is devalued Fe in favour of a strong Fi view.
Along with stuff you posted in that 80q thread, like
"EIIs usually have rigid and strong morals and are very ethical. Even though I do see myself as an emotional person, I would not say I am an ethical person. Not in the sense of the traditional understanding of ethics... I have my own set of values and ideals that I follow, and those are way more important for me than the external moral system. I more or less ignore that one... But that also makes me seem a bit immoral at the times.
My moral system is also not that rigid... I am a scattered person, it's easy to get me distracted even from my values. I tend to be all over the place type of a person, a bit unstable, not really firm and I am very very very far from being strict with myself or with others."
With the nonjudgmental approach earlier where you said it's the other person's thing if they had sex with 3 people, I don't know how IEE would do that approach or for what reason. I'd see @Chae as more judgmental on it but maybe this is also individual... Delta Fi can be nonjudgmental actually on some things.
Ne types are extroverts by nature. There is no mistaking them for introverts. They talk constantly and are very actively engaged in the world around them. For an introvert, they can be very tiring to be around for a long period of time. I think people loose sight of the larger picture, of what Ne is trying to describe: A person who bounces from topic to topic for a prolonged period of time.
Ni is more focused by nature and there is no mistaking them for extroverts. They are content with prolonged periods of time in silence reflecting and thinking. They don't need to be stimulated constantly like the Ne type. Where Ne gets bored easily, Ni doesn't think like that, there are just periods of physical activity and periods of mental activity that maybe gets processed as far as "I really need to do something, I've been sitting around all day" or "I've been really active, I need unwind for a while."
I wouldn't focus on quadras while discovering the self, since the quadras are a theory based on a theory based on a theory. It gets more inaccurate as you go up. They are predictions of what types should fall into. Some fall easily into the quadras, others don't. Don't be discouraged by this. I would go by which function you resonate with, what describes your overall conscious experience. If it is Ni, then it is Ni, types and quadras be damned. There isn't any law of nature that states Ni must follow either the Te or Fe path, and hence ILI or IEI. Same with any other function you resonate with.
Ne isn't that simple. ILE-Ne friend has been mistaken for an introvert when he'd get into certain interests of his, reading up on all sorts of Ne stuff instead of socializing. And, Ne leads I know look very spaced-out, very in the head, not present. Though the ILEs I know, including this ILE-Ne too, do readily engage in socializing in Alpha Fe environments, no question about that.
Ne does need to be stimulated with ideas a lot, and get bored and whatnot, and OP did describe things like that: "There's also a part of me that believes that a person should be able to experience everything once. I hate to feel like I'm running out of time to experience life to the fullest and waste time with activities that are not exciting and stimulating enough. I don't know...there's a part of me that likes it when things get wild and intense and I hate to feel like I miss on opportunities to experience adventures. But I also feel like there's never enough excitement in real life so I create fake stories full of intensity to fulfill my need to experience them in real life. I get bored so easily when things get stable, harmonious and stereotypical. Even when everything is really fine I just need to feel like I do something out of lines, something that should not be done, or something that is at least a little dangerous. But creating such situations with real spark is so difficult, my imagination is just better at it than the real world."
And what described her overall conscious experience: "What you wrote about you sister's Si is about the right opposite of me. I have one thing that really complicated a lot of stuff for me and that is... a never ending nervous energy. Even when I'm physically inactive I still feel like there is something that I should do, there's something that's going to happen or something that I should make happen and I can never really get into a state of full relaxation. This inner nervous feeling also makes me scattered and seemigly spaced out. I'm very impatient and I don't really have the nerve for taking long bubble baths or smoking weed. Like I said, I'm lazy and often inactive, but on the inside I always feel like I'm on the go or like I should be on the go. Slow things that require a lot of my attention and patience literally anger me. Same thing about music, art, movies etc... I want things to happen, I want them to happen fast and I hate to wait.
When people tell me they like to take bubble baths, I usually feel like it's very nice that they do it and I probably should do it too. I envy people who can relax like that"
Fits your concept of Ne well, actually.
@Chae also dreams in her head a lot, maybe she can explain all this better than I did, from an actual Ne lead pov.
I do not disagree.Ne isn't that simple. ILE-Ne friend has been mistaken for an introvert when he'd get into certain interests of his, reading up on all sorts of Ne stuff instead of socializing. And, Ne leads I know look very spaced-out, very in the head, not present. Though the ILEs I know, including this ILE-Ne too, do readily engage in socializing in Alpha Fe environments, no question about that.
Ne does need to be stimulated with ideas a lot, and get bored and whatnot, and OP did describe things like that: "There's also a part of me that believes that a person should be able to experience everything once. I hate to feel like I'm running out of time to experience life to the fullest and waste time with activities that are not exciting and stimulating enough. I don't know...there's a part of me that likes it when things get wild and intense and I hate to feel like I miss on opportunities to experience adventures. But I also feel like there's never enough excitement in real life so I create fake stories full of intensity to fulfill my need to experience them in real life. I get bored so easily when things get stable, harmonious and stereotypical. Even when everything is really fine I just need to feel like I do something out of lines, something that should not be done, or something that is at least a little dangerous. But creating such situations with real spark is so difficult, my imagination is just better at it than the real world."
And what described her overall conscious experience: "What you wrote about you sister's Si is about the right opposite of me. I have one thing that really complicated a lot of stuff for me and that is... a never ending nervous energy. Even when I'm physically inactive I still feel like there is something that I should do, there's something that's going to happen or something that I should make happen and I can never really get into a state of full relaxation. This inner nervous feeling also makes me scattered and seemigly spaced out. I'm very impatient and I don't really have the nerve for taking long bubble baths or smoking weed. Like I said, I'm lazy and often inactive, but on the inside I always feel like I'm on the go or like I should be on the go. Slow things that require a lot of my attention and patience literally anger me. Same thing about music, art, movies etc... I want things to happen, I want them to happen fast and I hate to wait.
When people tell me they like to take bubble baths, I usually feel like it's very nice that they do it and I probably should do it too. I envy people who can relax like that"
Fits your concept of Ne well, actually.
@Chae also dreams in her head a lot, maybe she can explain all this better than I did, from an actual Ne lead pov.
@Owl
You seem Ip in temperament. Do you identify with Ep temperament at all?
Ip
Ep
Based on this I do relate to Ip far more than Ep. I've said many times before that I'm mostly inactive, lazy and I lack motivation to start new projects but I do have short periods of activity that sometimes can even seem like an obsession about one thing. I usually spend my time in a dreamy state of mind not really interacting with the outside world. I'm not very temperamental or impulsive, because it's hard for me to be aware of the outside world.
Funny enough though, I do feel like the world can be boring and I seek change in what seems like a stereotype.
I also realize that this is a shitty argument, but most of the people and ficitional characters I relate to type as IEI. Most of the music I listen to and feel emotionally connected to is from IEIs, same about books and basically any sort of art. Ne+Si often seems too goofy and light hearted for me. I enjoy the intensity, creepiness and a lot of dark twists that one can find in Ni+Se art. I generally enjoy things that are sort of dark and disturbing because I enjoy the emotional effect they have on other peoole and this seems to be more of a Ni+Se thing too.
EDIT: I see she replied
I'll leave the bits here that I saw as Ep though, based on the quoted descriptions as above:
"inclined to fidget" instead of relaxed Ip
"An EP is bothered by the lack of change, especially as seen through his leading function, since his personal preference is for change."
"That makes him impulsive, with sudden bursts of action, energy, or even just thought, as he tries to get his perceptions "moving"."
@Owl I'm curious though, do you find the SLIs can help give you that spark for real (sensory?) experience? Or it's not like that with them? (You've mentioned you get along well with SLIs before because they don't force stuff on you or something like that - I'm referring to those SLIs.)
As for the IEI bit: what I could relate to IEI is, I still see your photo (in your profile) as more IEI but idk for sure
Your 80q was really Fi though
I can't tell... I don't know many SLIs if at all. I've dated SLE,SEI, LII and EIE and the EIE seems to be the best fit so far, SEI the worst. That's all I can say. My relationship with the SLE was extremelly unhealthy and bad for both of us. I usually feel attratced to ILEs, SLEs, IEEs and EIEs.
I was referring to this post.
I can see ni/se valuing over Ne/Si. Ip>Ep, victim>infant....I think that leaves you only 2 choices.
I guess the good news for Fay is that basically only two types (IEI by a few people and IEE by a few other people) are being suggested instead of four or more.
Those types were the only ones I have been considering as well. IEI makes more sense overal imo. She's not a clearcut case though and there is a lot of Fi present, I agree.I guess the good news for Fay is that basically only two types (IEI by a few people and IEE by a few other people) are being suggested instead of four or more.
you are evident IEI
you can't be EIE as you've placed LSI to the lowest,
can't be EII as SLE you prefer much more than LSE (while SLE in your top quater),
can't be IEE if you think yourself as shy (almost only introverts perceive themselves such)
being clear F type, you prefer among T - P types, what points to F-P as your type
while T or S are a joke for you
Hm going by the post above mine (and some earlier posts), it's like Fay fits IEE minus the socializing extrovert stereotype.
"I'm shy and often behave in a socially awkward way."
She may to have reduced socializing while being extravert, but it's almost impossible for extravert to think herself as shy. It would be like to perceive herself as disorganised for J types.
I'm a special snowflake.
And I'm more than comfortable with my NiNe typing! It sounds fun, like 9 but NiNe.
women...
why not call it the ultimate intuitive (Nu) type?
misogynist...
no. I find women funny.
well the founder of socionics "Aushra" is a woman as far as I know, so it is not men's place to question how a woman applies another woman theory
Judging a person based on gender stereotypes is an ignorant bullshit. Besides that @Sol you clearly type people only based on VI and your own intuition. Although VI can be a useful tool to get a full and clear understanding of one's type it only works with other elements such as Model A. You can't type someone ignoring their character, behavior and preferences and stubbornly rely on looks only. That's nonsense not socionics.
Ignorant bullshit is to ignore the difference between sexes.
According to tests statistics there are more F types among women, and hence women in average have more inferior thinking, like in your INFP case, where you prefer to write bs instead your type in the profile. Meanwhile you had everything to understand own type correctly long ago and now even IR have shown same, the women with "equal" mental abbilities.
Feel free to study the subject befor to argue with me, girl.
As for "misogynist", - have a deal with own projections, the woman which finds 90% of men as ugly.
I don't hate women or F types because of their worse thinking, - you mostly remind me kids, cute emotional kids inspiring protective wishes in me and some humor.
Also I find INFP as rather feminin type, and that's the other reason I've noticed women as general there. While your behavior have shown in increased degree what I find as feminin trait - the inferior thinking.
Change your bs stereotypes about stereotypes. Most stereotypes, being opinion of many people, are based on experience of the reality. And to think "stereotype" as something bad is madness.
You are stereotypical INFP. Live with it.
Last edited by Sol; 09-12-2017 at 10:57 AM.
Are you basically saying that women are not as smart as men because some "expert" in Russia who probably spends most of his time jerking off on a fetish porn, because no woman wants him said that "most women have inferior thinking".Ignorant bullshit is to ignore the difference between sexes.
According to tests statistics there are more F types among women, and hence women in average have more inferior thinking, like in your INFP case, where you prefer to write bs instead your type in the profile. Meanwhile you had everything to understand own type correctly long ago and now even IR have shown same, the women with "equal" mental abbilities.
Feel free to study the subject befor to argue with me, girl.
As for "misogynist", - have a deal with own projections, the woman which finds 90% of men as ugly.
I don't hate women or F types because of their worse thinking, - you mostly remind me kids, cute emotional kids inspiring protective wishes in me and some humor.
Also I find INFP as rather feminin type, and that's the other reason I've noticed women as general there. While your behavior have shown in increased degree what I find as feminin trait - the inferior thinking.
Change your bs stereotypes about stereotypes. Most stereotypes, being opinion of many people, are based on experience of the reality. And to think "stereotype" as something bad is madness.
You are stereotypical INFP. Live with it.
Female stereoytpe appears to be the caring, loving, submissive character. If you really think that me or most of the women are really like this you live in the 19th century. I've never felt threatend by other's intellectual abilities, quite the opposite. If there's something I'm proud of when it comes to myself, it's my intellect. I am far from you idea of a naive kid vomiting rainbows.
My NiNe typing is a joke, it's not a sign of inferior thinking, but you have to have a certain level of IQ to be able to understand a joke.
You seem very similar to someone like Kurt Cobain, who is consistently typed as IEI in socionics despite the high presence of "Fi". He is a stereotypical Fi dominant in MBTI. Go with your intuition.
I used to relate to Kurt when I was 16 or so, now I relate to him a little less, but still well... a lot. But he's that kind of a character to whom a lot of sensitive kids will always relate. I'm not sure if it's necessary type related, or if it'necessary says that I'm an IEI. There's probably not a type that would fit 100%, because everyone is uniq and different. Idk, I guess it's more important for me to be true to myself in my typing than it might be for others. I just want to make sure that I don't lie about who I'm and IEI is a heavily idealized type. I want to make sure that I don't type as an IEI for the ideal of it, but because it's really "me".Hi, Owl.
same here tbh
OMG they still exist? I posted a video there about 3 years ago. They typed me Se+Fi
Thanks for sharing! I'm digging in it and it's sooo advanced, wow!Yep, they are still around!
It's happened before that an extravert saw themselves as shy, avoidant... It also happened that J type saw themselves as disorganized, e.g. when depressed.
Why would you make the assumption that it's "more important" for you to be true to yourself in your typing than for other people? That was a bit weird.
Slightly cynical-almost-sarcastic here: the fact that someone picks a type and doesn't change their decision afterwards doesn't mean that it wasn't important for them to be accurate in picking their type.
FWIW I don't see IEI more idealized than IEE...
To be avoidant due to anxiety discomfort and to think yourself shy - is very different. It's very not common for extraverts to perceive and describe themselves as shy. Extravert stays open to the world by his mind even when don't like it. If someone says it's typical for him to be "shy" - 99% it's introvert.
> It also happened that J type saw themselves as disorganized, e.g. when depressed.
We talked about state which a human thinks as typical for him, not in temporal disorder.
Also even with chronic hard depression J type will not perceive himself as disorganized in the sense what may be applied to P types. He will not become impulsive, he'll just see harder to do something by own plans - he'll make them anyway and will try to follow.
Part of behavior may change for long, but not how people of types think, perceive themselves and the world in what is essence of their types. And it's better to exclude rare hard psychiatric cases as we talk about common.
You assume too much about people using words "correctly".
Again you assume too much about how well many people perceive themselves about trends throughout life> It also happened that J type saw themselves as disorganized, e.g. when depressed.
We talked about state which a human thinks as typical for him, not in temporal disorder.
Also even with chronic hard depression J type will not perceive himself as disorganized in the sense what may be applied to P types. He will not become impulsive, he'll just see harder to do something by own plans - he'll make them anyway and will try to follow.
Part of behavior may change for long, but not how people of types think, perceive themselves and the world in what is essence of their types. And it's better to exclude rare hard psychiatric cases as we talk about common.
@Owl
Could you please elaborate on your views on these statements of yours:
"It's important to follow you own self, however violating anyone else's freedom of that choice is an abuse."
"Love is (...) about sharing your self with someone else and feeling it's right for both of you."
"I like to play with my own emotions, but I respect the emotional privacy and integrity of others.
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