Debate: Am I a SLI?

[Nico1e]

(I did another poll now: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...om-the-old-one.)


Ineffable has expressed the opinion that I am an EII instead of a SLI. I am wondering what I did or said in the forum that gave him that impression. Ineffable, if you're out there, would you like to explain?

(I just noticed I'm pronouncing my letters as 'sly.')

After coming back to this thread (after it was temporarily inactive for a while), I notice that I don't really mind being retyped by someone. It happens.

[Trevor]

SLI in Socionics and Ineffablian EII are not incompatible.

[Pa3s]

What do you think about the suggestion that you're EII? Is it a type you never considered before or is it among the "possible" types. What would other people, like your family or close friends, say about this suggestion (if they knew about socionics)?

I think it helps to put yourself in the place of another person when questioning your type.

[Nico1e]

I wanted to mention something about the phenomenon of debates as such. I enjoy being challenged to think, and I love debates. However, I've learned from experience that the result of debating can be bad feelings between people. It's painful to have a debate with someone and then afterwards feel sort of sick and regretful because the debate went badly.

I've also noticed that debates do not necessarily cause people to change the statements they've made. Sometimes, instead, people stick to their original opinion if the debate went badly, if they felt disrespected in the debate, if they felt humiliated.

So I usually avoid debating with anyone about anything. I learned about this when I tried to argue logically with my EII best friend in college about the existence of God (I am an atheist). It didn't make her change her mind, but it did hurt her feelings and make her feel misunderstood.

And there was no point in arguing about it. Even if she had changed her mind, what could we then have accomplished together? 'Now that we both agree that God doesn't exist, we can finally take cooperative action regarding situation X!'

So I usually avoid debating about something unless there is a purpose for the debate. What do I hope to gain by debating? Is there any reason why I can't just overlook a difference of opinion about my type? Why wouldn't I just say, 'Meh, whatever?' or 'Disagreers gonna disagree?'

Also, there is something I love about socionics. The intertype relations can be used to help us get an impression of someone's type. We can guess at someone's type by observing how we ourselves feel when we interact with that person. But I myself don't always want to say these things publicly. 'OMG! I TOTALLY HAVE A CRUSH ON THIS PERSON! THAT MEANS THEY'RE MY DUAL/ACTIVATOR/WHATEVER!!!'

But anyway, you can observe the interaction between your own functions and someone else's. If the person I'm debating with is a -base, I could demonstrate a typical / conversation with that person. (I don't always use the little symbols, but I'm using them now because I've only recently taken the trouble of learning the syntax for typing them, the colons before and after, so I'm practicing.)

So that might suggest an unconventional method of debating. What ways of debating could be less confrontational? (Perhaps I'll go and google 'consensus.' I enjoyed reading about how some intentional communities use consensus as a way of making decisions.) What is the goal of the debate? What would be viewed as a positive outcome of the debate? Will all relationships remain intact afterwards?

I write too much, so I'll just post this.

[Nico1e]

SLI in Socionics and Ineffablian EII are not incompatible.

Perhaps so. But what I find even more interesting is simply the fact that all of a sudden, I exist. I used the forum a whole lot more than usual in the past couple weeks, for a variety of reasons (long story, it's a temporary phase), and so, I drew attention to myself. Something that I said, somewhere, triggered Ineffable to feel an 'Aha!' moment. Something that I did was noticeable and unusual. Whatever it was, it was outstanding enough that he made a statement about my type and posted it into the spreadsheet. (Wherever that link is to the spreadsheet...)

[Nico1e]

I think Ineffable's challenge of your type has merit. As much as I try to keep an open mind to you being SLI, the content, length and delivery of your posts, IMO, suggest at minimum another type. EII may be a possibility. I'd consider exploring LII as well.

When I took the Myers-Briggs test in the early 1990s in college, my first result was INTP. I took it again and got INTJ. I became fascinated with the system. The test was on a computer. I went back again and again and retook the test so that I could figure out which questions led to which results. Unfortunately (a weakness of the test) the questions were arranged in a predictable order. I forget what exactly the order was, but basically it was a recurring pattern, something like E/I followed by N/S followed by F/T, J/P, etc, over and over again. They weren't in random order. So I then began deliberately answering the questions untruthfully in order to get an arbitrary result, until I was able to get 100% in every single letter.

Uhh... what was the point of that? I forget. I had a point.

Anyway, when I tried to answer the questions sincerely, I sometimes got INTP, INTJ, and INFP. The 'S' questions made people sound like brainless morons who can only see a millimeter in front of their noses. Of COURSE I don't only think about this immediate second of time! That would be insane! So, something in their description of what exactly it means to be a 'sensor' is messed up. Their definition of 'sensor' doesn't resonate with sensors. I've heard a lot of people complaining that the 'S' types sound like brainless morons who can't think past five minutes into the future.

Later on I continued thinking about it, and I often felt as though the ISTP described me. I felt this even more strongly if I read descriptions written by other authors who didn't make the ISTP sound like an idiot. I found myself 'envying' the ISTPs. 'Wow, wouldn't it be cool to be an ISTP? I wish that's what I could be!'

My total, absolute best friend during all of my teenage years fit the description of an ENFP (although I don't recall if she ever took the test). That's one of the biggest reasons why I was convinced that socionics was true. You'd have to just take my word for it that this best friend actually existed and that she did in fact behave exactly like an ENFP.

So anyway.

(*edit. I forgot, I was also going to mention that I was in Gifted class in school, and when I've taken IQ tests, I've gotten 140.*)

[Nico1e]

What do you think about the suggestion that you're EII? Is it a type you never considered before or is it among the "possible" types. What would other people, like your family or close friends, say about this suggestion (if they knew about socionics)?

I think it helps to put yourself in the place of another person when questioning your type.

When I was still using the MBTI long ago, I considered INFJ. I wouldn't consider it nowadays. My family and friends would say that I'm good at listening to people talk about their relationships. This might be because I spent several decades of my life reading self-help books about relationships. I learned about things like 'reflective listening.'

They would agree that I'm an introvert. I hardly ever talk much in real life, not about myself anyway, but I can write as prolifically as UDP here in the forum with his ten zillion posts - I read his writing style, and I feel that it's almost exactly like my own (my own, with a slightly different emphasis, blah blah, exactly as a 'mirror' relation is described). I recognize myself in him. Anyway, introvert.

My family remembers me as a 'crafter' when I was a child. I always did arts and crafts. I haven't done this much as an adult, but it's something I would do more of if I had more free time (and in fact, now that I'm living in my car and not paying rent, I will be able to work fewer hours and spend more time living real life).

I always questioned whether the subjects that I studied in school were worth studying, because I wanted them to have some practical value. This fits many descriptions of the sensing types - they want to see how ideas have real-world value. Everyone wants their ideas to have real-world value, but intuitives have a greater tolerance for 'floating' ideas for a longer period of time. When I talk about an idea, I want to list a large number of specific examples and personal experiences that fit with that idea.

Okay, wayyyy too much talking about me. I should go to some other category and answer some other posts. But I love talking about myself.

[Anglas]

Add poll

[force my hand]

Everyone here will have an opinion about your type, but then again, everyone here has changed their type two, three or even four times. Take the know-it-alls with a grain of salt. Don't confuse volume for insight.

Instead, focus on what the debate does for the strength of your own self-knowledge. Identify any weaknesses, and address them. Debate again to check for any remaining leaks. Reapeat as often as necessary.

[Pa3s]

I always questioned whether the subjects that I studied in school were worth studying, because I wanted them to have some practical value. This fits many descriptions of the sensing types - they want to see how ideas have real-world value. Everyone wants their ideas to have real-world value, but intuitives have a greater tolerance for 'floating' ideas for a longer period of time. When I talk about an idea, I want to list a large number of specific examples and personal experiences that fit with that idea.

I do the same. Not that much during my school years, but now that I'm studying. Sometimes I have the uncomfortable feeling that I'm wasting my time and not learning anything practical, which has some "substance", you know? Something which gives me knowledge not everyone has so I can't be easily replaced at work for example. Some of the things I learn appear so wishy-washy that everyone might know it (at least that's my impression). Maybe that's because I have just started it and the "good stuff" is coming later, I don't know.

There are a handful of us (megadoomer included) who sit on the fringe with no clear type. LII, ILI, SLI are possibilities or a combination thereof; also IEI or EII.

That's true. I'm actually between SLI and LII right now and can't really decide between those two. But Nico1e actually mentioned a important fact regarding some tests: they label sensors as short-sighted idiots and intuitives as insightful intellectuals. It should be clear that intelligence is not type related, but I'm sure that there are a lot sensors who self-type as intuitives instead because they can't identify with some of the descriptions or questions.

[Nico1e]

Add poll

Okay, I'll try. I've never done that before.

[Nico1e]

Okay, well, I've made a poll. It's about polls.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=37033

I am Nicole the Poll Troll.

[Nico1e]

hmm, this post could have been written by me.

In any case, from my perspective, you are coming across as a type from the 'Researcher' club.

There are a handful of us (megadoomer included) who sit on the fringe with no clear type. LII, ILI, SLI are possibilities or a combination thereof; also IEI or EII.

From the tone of your posts, your remind me of forum member brilland.

What do you value most in your life (name 3-5)?

What do I value most. (I should make this a poll.) The first thing off the top of my head is, I value having my free time. It greatly bothers me that I would have to work so many hours to pay the rent on my apartment, and I'm thrilled to finally be living in my car, which is something that I've wanted to do for years now, and I've been researching it. I can't wait to watch the money increasing in my bank account. I value the things that I can do with that money. I value the things I can do with my free time.

I value my physical health, but no, listen, I know everyone values their health... But I am able to pay extremely close, obsessive attention to every nuance of my physical sensations, and I'm very proud of the fact that I can do this - I believe that most people can't. I can lie in bed and feel every pain signal emanating from various bones and muscles around my body. (I have chronic, low-level pain.) I want my body to work properly, I want this low-level pain to be cured without drugs (but I'm tolerating it for the time being), and I want to prevent other people, such as my future children, from suffering from chronic health problems that decrease their enjoyment of life.

You can see my values in how carefully I research all of the ways that various things can cause deformities and other problems in children. I want my future children to be as happy as it is physically possible for them to be, which means their bodies must fulfill their potential, and no accidents or other problems must get in the way of their fulfilling that potential.

I also value steady relationships (and of course, everyone does), and it greatly bothers me when co-workers at my job have a high 'turnover ratio.' I am very upset because this or that person recently left McDonald's to start college again. So I even value my relationships with people who are nothing but 'familiar faces,' like the people I see at other businesses around town. I don't like the idea of moving and relocating unless I have to, or unless I will gain something great by doing so, because it upsets me to leave behind familiar people, even though, in all truth, my relationships with all those familiar faces are rather shallow and unsatisfying.

I value any knowledge of ways to troubleshoot health problems. I value my knowledge about the economic system, the money system, gold and silver, etc, because that affects whether or not I will successfully save enough money to have more free time. If you can save lots of money, it means you can eventually take time off work, a long, contiguous period of time, in which you can do things like traveling. I value finding ways to effectively save money without that money being destroyed by, for instance, a stock market crash, so I collect gold and silver coins.

I value plants and grass and water and natural scenery. When I take a photo of myself, I want to have natural scenery behind me, or else, alternatively, beloved animals or people in the picture.

[Beautiful sky]

I have an example of a very good post of your Si perception.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...postcount=3577

Si ignores the object as it is and make their person inferences from what feelings or perception they gathered. In doing so, Si will convey these perceptions in their own language; that you said "only afterwards that she started describing it in terms of personality types" indicates Ni Role, and a chain of events with the watch of time.

When I took the Myers-Briggs test in the early 1990s in college, my first result was INTP. I took it again and got INTJ. I became fascinated with the system. The test was on a computer. I went back again and again and retook the test so that I could figure out which questions led to which results. Unfortunately (a weakness of the test) the questions were arranged in a predictable order. I forget what exactly the order was, but basically it was a recurring pattern, something like E/I followed by N/S followed by F/T, J/P, etc, over and over again. They weren't in random order. So I then began deliberately answering the questions untruthfully in order to get an arbitrary result, until I was able to get 100% in every single letter.

Uhh... what was the point of that? I forget. I had a point.

Anyway, when I tried to answer the questions sincerely, I sometimes got INTP, INTJ, and INFP. The 'S' questions made people sound like brainless morons who can only see a millimeter in front of their noses. Of COURSE I don't only think about this immediate second of time! That would be insane! So, something in their description of what exactly it means to be a 'sensor' is messed up. Their definition of 'sensor' doesn't resonate with sensors. I've heard a lot of people complaining that the 'S' types sound like brainless morons who can't think past five minutes into the future.

Later on I continued thinking about it, and I often felt as though the ISTP described me. I felt this even more strongly if I read descriptions written by other authors who didn't make the ISTP sound like an idiot. I found myself 'envying' the ISTPs. 'Wow, wouldn't it be cool to be an ISTP? I wish that's what I could be!'

My total, absolute best friend during all of my teenage years fit the description of an ENFP (although I don't recall if she ever took the test). That's one of the biggest reasons why I was convinced that socionics was true. You'd have to just take my word for it that this best friend actually existed and that she did in fact behave exactly like an ENFP.

So anyway.

(*edit. I forgot, I was also going to mention that I was in Gifted class in school, and when I've taken IQ tests, I've gotten 140.*)

hmm, this post could have been written by me.

In any case, from my perspective, you are coming across as a type from the 'Researcher' club.

There are a handful of us (megadoomer included) who sit on the fringe with no clear type. LII, ILI, SLI are possibilities or a combination thereof; also IEI or EII.

From the tone of your posts, your remind me of forum member brilland.

What do you value most in your life (name 3-5)?

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Ne
I like that you're taking an attempt at typing people and applying your logic. I think this hints to you being LII.

[mu4]

I added a poll. Let me know if you have a problem with that Nicole or if you want some other options.

[mu4]

I think you are a good example of a SLI, VI, the way you talk, etc.

[717495]

I agree with SLI.

[Absurd]

Intelligence is a subjective term. There a multiple types of intelligence and IQ 'objectively' measures only certain types.

No.

IQ measures only the genotypic component of phenotypic intelligence.

As for Nicole, she seems pretty SLI to me, I mean don't think other type fits, but I can be wrong.

[Anglas]

I'm offended by this photo. It's against forum rules

[Absurd]

I'm offended by this photo. It's against forum rules

He posts pics of EIEs quite often. Time to ban all EIEs in this forum.

[Absurd]

You're just trying to get me all rev'd up about Maritsa.

I don't see a point in doing that, just saying he does, that's all.

[Absurd]

Lighten up will ya.

Hehe, done.

[Jarno]

Ineffable has expressed the opinion that I am an EII instead of a SLI. I am wondering what I did or said in the forum that gave him that impression. Ineffable, if you're out there, would you like to explain?

(I just noticed I'm pronouncing my letters as 'sly.')

the poll question is wrong.

it should have been: do ineffable's typings make any sense?

[Absurd]

the poll question is wrong.

it should have been: do ineffable's typings make any sense?

I pictured him in circus blindfolded and throwing knives before.

[glam]

i haven't read that many of your posts but i already get a strong impression of SLI.

[woofwoofl]

the poll question is wrong.

it should have been: do ineffable's typings make any sense?

I pictured him in circus blindfolded and throwing knives before.

I was thinking blindfolded at the dartboard, but the circus part absolutely completes it, and then some...

And yep, I'm loving the shit out of this; 7 to 0 for SLI right now, and I'm one of the seven

[Nico1e]

Whoa, hey, thanks. Some moderator (oh, ok, it was hkkmr) added the poll for me, since I can't add it to an existing thread. Some people also answered my 'How do I create a poll?' poll, which is very amusing to me.

[Raver]

SLI, most of your posts give me the impression of followed by .

[Jarno]

Can we close this obvious useless thread now?

[Nico1e]

Can we close this obvious useless thread now?

The topic doesn't seem to be all that controversial, does it? Gravity does, in fact, pull objects towards the ground. The earth is indeed round.

I want to guess Megadoomer's type one of these days, and also HaveLucidDreams. I don't know if he knows his type yet. What I would do to guess people's types is, I would probably chat with them, and then after forming a hypothesis I would arrange to get particular other people to chat with them. I would pick the people based on their types, and I would pick people whose types I felt sure of - 'benchmarks' or whatever, I'm not sure if that's what that word means.

For instance, I saw HaveLucidDreams talking with one of the ILEs, either hkkmr or MisterNi, one of the days when I was also in there chatting, and HLD was really flowing when he was talking to the ILEs. He works well with the Si/Ne Delta/Alpha irrationals, and I'm guessing he's another mistyped/untyped SEI. Not sure about MD yet. I would have to read more posts. He hasn't been in the chatroom when I've been there - that's when I see people's interactions the best.

Anyway. I have a theory right now that a lot of SFs are being mistyped or else they gave up on trying to guess a type at all, and are just going around without a type, so I would be looking for signs of anything suggesting SF. I might consider ST too.

[The Ineffable]

I'm not that eager to actually debate or explain in detail my opinion, but I'm glad that it gathered your interest and you think about it. I'm not even sure that you understand the theory correctly, especially interpreting the diverse halo of observations surrounding the official reference. That is, the rest of total knowledge base of the enthusiasts. Because IMO it is separated into two main parts: on one hand the justified opinions, which normally can be judged only through one POV, and the "myths" [1], the things that stuck, and as any myth, sometimes wrong. Okay, this forks into another topic, so on short: based on my experience, I'm not sure whether there's an use in all this [2], I wouldn't debate just for the sake of it.

I must say that the lenght and style of your posts (mentioned by incognito) were a reason to me as well. I can't use this as an argument, though, the actual richness of your posts itself does not reveal anything - taking it literally one can draw one of two wrong conclusions: that a lengthy post makes someone a Ne type or that it is irrelevant, an Ashtonian "anyone can write lengthy posts". The reality is that the actual reason is more than its literal meaning [3], but the only practical way I see to express it is through examples, hence why I mentioned the other users you are similar to - and that does not include people I type Ne as well but who are not self-typed accordingly, like silverchris9 and EyeSeeCold.
---

Other than that, my hypotheses include the fact that you can read more into things that what's given to you, that you are a guesser. I argued once that Si types - SLI in particular - never guess and I still relate to that opinion since I made experiments on people I'm sure of being Si types which confirmed. I know my hypotheses are way ahead of your confirmations, just I extracted the justification from your posts: you seem to be the person who, when given incomplete information, starts immediately exploring scenarios and make assumptions.

And yes, I made actual experiments, this is one of the most palpable IE-related differences. Asking people simple questions like "what happens when you press a red button on a flat wall?" can reveal the patterns, generally Si-Base abruptly come with "I don't know/how can I know?" or "I could probably tell if I were there", while Si-Creative either jump immediately to a conclusion if they can find something like that in their experience (may answer "an alarm starts") or ask you to spare them from silliness. Intuitive types, on the other hand, immediately begin filling the blanks their way. Realism is very important, any person would be able to play a creative game, when perceiving the requirements as such, normally they shouldn't know it is a test, let alone a Socionics one.
---

[1] - for instance that ILEs are always crazy and are premeditately trying to see things "differently", or that Si types are more interested than others in comfort, beauty or health.
[2] - requires two conditions: that I am correct that you're Ne type, which I believe to a satisfactory degree, *and* that you will eventually self-type as such.
[3] - the typical bottleneck in communication between Se and Ne types, for the record. It may be useful for your purpose, since that's not applicable between Se and Si.

[rat1]

15-0... LoL

[Nico1e]

Whoa, holy crap, I didn't even know that there was anything there. All my threads got marked 'read' and I didn't realize there were new replies.

[Nico1e]

What happens when I press a red button on a flat wall:

The button gets pushed in until it is flush against the wall. There is a clicking sound. (lol) Depending on how large this button is, the button might cut a dent into my palm, if the button is very stiff and hard to push in, and if it has sharp edges. After the button is pushed flush against the wall, I cannot push it in any further, unless I switch to using my fingertips instead of my palm. So I push it in with my fingertips. Surprisingly enough, the button pushes farther into the wall. But sooner or later, I won't be able to push this button farther into the wall, because my finger is too short. But if need be, I will go and get some kind of object, like a stick (lmao) so that I can push the damn button until it does something. What the hell it's gonna do, I have no idea, I'm just pushing the damn button.

oh well.

Or I could just say 'Duhhh, I don't know.' Either way.

But that's only one possible thing that could happen if I push this big red button. I could push it and it could fall down back inside the wall, leaving a hole that I can reach into.

So far, I haven't thought of anything that the button could actually be controlling, and I won't bother to think of any such thing. Or I could ask the question, what is a button? Is a button, by definition, something that 'bounces back?' Must the button spring up again after being pressed, in order to qualify as being a 'button' by definition? Must the button control something, in order to be called a button?

I could recall the shapes and feel of various kinds of buttons that I have seen. Some buttons are hard to push. Some are easy to push. Some buttons have words written on them, but the words have all been gradually wiped off over time, as hundreds of people have pressed the button before me, and I can no longer read what the button says, so I don't know what it does, and if I saw a big red button, and didn't know what it does, then in real life, I wouldn't push it!

If there were a machine nearby, I might infer that the button controls the machine. If I were playing a video game, and if I could just restart after I died, then I would just push the button and find out what happens.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Looks like to me (the first half; you added more before I finished this post). You throw a fair bit of around too, though I don't see that being too unusual if we regard the Fi-driven irrationality in the super-id being projected as anxiety-causing potential hazards in the outer world.

[consentingadult]

I'm going to digress from common opinion: after seeing some of your videos on YouTube, definitively NOT SLI. My gutt feeling tells me extreme use of Si-Role function (ie ILI), or else Si-mobiliizing (EII>LII), but less likely.

[Nico1e]

I'm going to digress from common opinion: after seeing some of your videos on YouTube, definitively NOT SLI. My gutt feeling tells me extreme use of Si-Role function (ie ILI), or else Si-mobiliizing (EII>LII), but less likely.

That's interesting, and I was actually thinking about making some more videos too, except I just dropped my camera directly into a creek yesterday. I got it to turn on again, but the lens won't telescope out, so, when I turn it on, it says 'lens error,' and the lens makes its little whirring noise and it won't come out. If I don't get it working, I think I will get a cheap new camera.

If I do make another video, I might do the thing that they described in one of the video threads, where they suggested you answer one of the forum posts, in the video, so that you would have something to talk about. Talking about myself probably will be rather weak, but if I talk about 'something in particular,' some kind of a topic, then I might show more of how I really behave, especially if it's extemporaneous.

So now I'm curious how my videos would look like that, I'm going to go look at them again.

And the other thing is that on my netbook, I don't have the right software to turn a movie sideways. I can turn photos sideways, but not movies. The 'real' software for the camera isn't installed on this computer, and for a variety of technical reasons (such as, no CD drive) I'm not going to install it anytime soon. So if I make videos, they're horizontal, which means my face won't be all the way in the photo if I'm holding the camera in my hand. I could do a crappy webcam video, I guess, reluctantly.

[consentingadult]

And the other thing is that on my netbook, I don't have the right software to turn a movie sideways.

I can easily turn my netbook sideways... problem solved!

[Nico1e]

I can easily turn my netbook sideways... problem solved!

I debated whether to thank this post, like this post, or quote you in a reply and say that I laughed out loud, which is what I did.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Be my dual. You're considering LII possibly? Or EII, is this why you had said you can still see LSE for me? Haha.

Not to be offensive, but I'm curious... I know you mentioned you're more talkative now, for reasons you haven't mentioned... and I know, in the past, you've made posts/threads about how substances can alter personality... and I believe you mentioned that you tend to be more talkative when you take certain substances... so I gotta ask, is this the 'real' Nicole we're seeing now?

For the sake of discussing personality. What are the reasons you're posting more lately, or is it too personal to share? You can always PM me if you'd like.