Yeah, you really are pretty gross. Thanks for clarifying this beyond any reasonable doubt.Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Yeah, you really are pretty gross. Thanks for clarifying this beyond any reasonable doubt.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
this seems like a swipe at me since I mentioned hitta, which is weird because I never even said I was offended about adam's joke.
but I think Delilah is entitled to be, so I guess that puts me on "that side" and its just the narrative yall are gonna run with now.
Sometimes I feel like a guy can never win. Either we are "trying too hard" or "not showing enough interest".
If somebody behaves in a way you don't like, consider that instead of just shutting them out, you could explain how you'd prefer them to interact instead. This signals that you're still open to them; you are simply closed to certain behaviours. How they respond to such an approach will tell you a lot about their intentions and character.
What are acceptable forms of humour for you and how willing are you to tolerate your boundaries being bent? What are the most effective ways to get to know you and "warm you up", so to speak? And what will never work?
Equality as an ideal has become something akin to a religion; if I question its value, I am a heretic and morally defective. I have noticed that many social justice warriors share psychological traits with evangelical Protestants, such as zealotry, inherited sin, authoritarianism and a messianic vision of the future.
You are using your ideology as a form of personal security. This is a serious problem, as politics requires deal-making and compromise to work.
It was an offhand comment to some trolly shit I said lol, I dunno if it's that weighty.
My thoughts exactly.
We must put an end to the scourge of ageism. Old men and young men shall henceforth receive the same laughter in return for the fruits of their jokes. Amen.
I'm actually neutral. It's hardly an ideology at all. No one has divine authority to say one is of more value than another. Anyone who claims that better have empirical data to back up their claims. We all differ slightly genetically, but not in significant quantifiable ways that can used to justify treating individuals as if they are a collective. That is just fallacious reasoning. Both sides are guilty of dogmatic claims, but we all are much more similar than people understand or realize. In game theory, it is would be considered a win-win strategy to err on the side of equality. There is much more to gain for more people than the few that would benefit from human designed systems of inequality, from a utilitarian perspective.
There is a trade-off to this preference.
If you prefer to date younger men, you must be tolerant about employment status and wealth, and lower your expectations of what courtship will be like. You will be physically loved in ways an older man couldn't match, but you will receive less shoes, jewelry and fine dining. Many young men are struggling to find work because of the shifts towards a service-based economy. That isn't our fault. Blame the older generations for allowing this to happen.
I have noticed that most women who pontificate about feminism still tend to rely on men to support them financially, and they're largely averse to "dating down". Anti-feminist women seem to be less judgemental about these things, on average.
Funny how that works.
Says the guy who is a member of a right wing organisation. . .
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
If this is addressed to me, i can clarify: FDG (whom I like w/in the context of this forum) decided to put himself in Adam's shoes and he said maybe my perception is wrong. However I've never received comments such as Adam's from FDG, and I told him that, even when he was younger @Starfall (just to clarify). In fact since i've been here i've not received a comment such as this from no other member but Adam. This is the problem with your hypothetical, Darya, that it simply doesn't hold any water.
Nobody is saying that people are born with more value than each other. Ascribing value to traits is a subjective, moral decision quite separate to observing the reality that variation exists. Unlike you, I consider that variation meaningful because we can observe it, which therefore makes it of taxonomical significance.
What I am saying is that because we are all born with different traits, equality is inherently impossible to achieve as a state. Therefore it should not be pursued as a goal, because the consequences will always outweigh any benefits. In case you need any other reason, the left is hostile to biological differences precisely because they lead to different outcomes in life.
They no longer ascribe value to equality just as an ideal (like equal rights - this is actually equity, not equality), but as an actual, physical state of being (sameness, elimination of biological diversity). This distinction is incredibly important for everyone here to understand.
You seem to be under the illusion that all younger people are socialists or vice versa.
Again this is the black and white thinking I am talking about.
If you want to see why the west was deindustrialised and why young people find it harder to access sustainable employment you can look at the past thirty years of behaviour from organisations like the ones that you are involved in
It is not about age. It is about which social forces you are a part of.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
I try to change things from the inside rather than by destroying the entire system.If you want to see why the west was deindustrialised and why young people find it harder to access sustainable employment you can look at the past thirty years of behaviour from organisations like the ones that you are involved in
Violent revolution does not usually lead to better outcomes for people.
Reactionary social forces did use violent force in order to design the world in their image.
That is why at home they employed the police to break up strikers and why overseas they used guns and bombs to bring countries into their economic sphere.
The world is built on violence, whether you want to endorse it or not.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
Human came into the world as animal. Through his inventive spirit he has come up with a multitude of ways to improve himself, many of which neuter biology. Here's one: eyeglasses.
A person who doesn't need eyeglasses is obviously biologically superior to a person who does, but there is nobody on this earth who thinks that this is a bad thing and that nobody should be able to wear eyeglasses, not even the most serious social darwinist. Humans apply themselves to the world to make it better. By technological advance we are able to reduce the limits biology imposes on us as a species. There's no reason we can't do this socially either: in fact, it ought to be even easier.
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Example: for some people a period causes debilitating pain (apparently.) In this sense yeah some women are biologically inferior: they get random pains that we don't get. Does anyone lose out if we develop some pill that stops this from happening ... ?
Or in fact, do we all benefit, despite being now more equal?
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Fortunately I am not interested in remaking the world in my image; that is a rather vague and lofty ambition that has too many variables. I would lose my energy trying to make such an unpredictable objective, one totally out of my control, become real.
To be quite honest, I would much rather have lots of money, lots of sex and lots of tanks that fire fake cum on feminist protestors. I will gladly let somebody else, like you, throw all their energy into a single global project, as I do not allow my self-esteem to be so narrowly defined. I will try to affect social changes incrementally instead - this can be done by cultivating friendly relations with those in power (sitting down, having a few beers, that kind of thing) and donating money to their campaigns. In this way, my interests can be met, along with those of my family and my nation. This approach doesn't work all the time, but it does sometimes.
So it is not that I lack empathy for people in general, as some people seem to think. Simply that at the end of the day I know my limits. Politics can be a depressing business, and ultimately the social sphere does not determine whether you are successful in life. The key is to produce and create as much as possible - music, art, offspring, this is what will ensure you are remembered and admired.
A flower is growing from the manure of this thread imo
Politics is like business — it's a gamble. If you win, you win big. If you lose, you lose big. It's that simple.
We are both young and are not in positions where we can do much other than donate money to causes we prefer (which I also do). I am not claiming I am going to change the world tomorrow, or at all.
But if you are a supporter of objective truth and yet don't want to see the truth everywhere (and not just there, or here), that seems to me to be a contradiction.
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We all have our issues don't we.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
We all have our issues don't we.
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The reason I stopped dating musicians and artists (with big dreams) is because age doesn't matter since they don't always carry their own weight because they don't actually want to work a job while pursuing their dreams. Some never get passed that and end up just getting by on menial jobs as they get older because they learn no other skills. I suspect they will be the same in their 40s as they are in their 20s.
I know some who chose to have a career in other fields and practice their art for the enjoyment of it once the big dreams, of being famous, pass. I have also dated guys younger than me (early 20s) who paid for everything and took care of all the bills while creating music, art... but they were go-getters and not just dreamers. Unfortunately I met far fewer who carried their own weight, younger or older, instead they choose to live off their families or girlfriends even into their late 20s. Their talents were not bringing home any cash. They still dig in about making it someday. They are shocked that people no longer want to support them.
I think if someone wants to work they will find work so it isn't about they can't find a job. They think they are too good to do most jobs and that kind of attitude is the problem. I know young guys who make things happen. They don't sit around waiting for creative careers to take off. Others, like my little brother, think the world owes them something, or at the very least the family does. It is kind of pathetic and annoys me since I am not the most hard working or motivated person but I made my own money doing things I didn't want to. My parents insisted on it. My mom softened on my brother (youngest) and it made him weak and fearful. I am not saying I haven't had things handed to me but I worked too. Probably why things were handed to me. People saw I wasn't just a leech.
My point being dating an older guy doesn't guarantee fine dining, or financial rewards, anymore than being younger guarantees a guy will be better in bed. In fact it is often the opposite. From talking with females of different ages, over the years, guys under 25 can be lame in bed. Unfortunately some of us let them think they are good. I was guilty of this.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Obviously a lot will depend on where you live, the job market, size of the population, economic growth, cultural willingness to take risk etc etc. As you live in a different part of the world, you may still meet large numbers of men your age who satisfy such expectations. That being said, I have tried to start two businesses in the last year. I have applied for three jobs just in the last week, two of which were cold calls. I definitely don't wait around for things to happen, so if your comment was a swipe at me please retract it.The reason I stopped dating musicians and artists (with big dreams) is because age doesn't matter since they don't always carry their own weight because they don't actually want to work a job while pursuing their dreams. Some never get passed that and end up just getting by on menial jobs as they get older because they learn no other skills. I suspect they will be the same in their 40s as they are in their 20s.
I know some who chose to have a career in other fields and practice their art for the enjoyment of it once the big dreams, of being famous, pass. I have also dated guys younger than me (early 20s) who paid for everything and took care of all the bills while creating music, art... but they were go-getters and not just dreamers. Unfortunately I met far fewer who carried their own weight, younger or older, instead they choose to live off their families or girlfriends even into their late 20s. Their talents were not bringing home any cash. They still dig in about making it someday. They are shocked that people no longer want to support them.
I think if someone wants to work they will find work so it isn't about they can't find a job. They think they are too good to do most jobs and that kind of attitude is the problem. I know young guys who make things happen. They don't sit around waiting for creative careers to take off. Others, like my little brother, think the world owes them something, or at the very least the family does. It is kind of pathetic and annoys me since I am not the most hard working or motivated person but I made my own money doing things I didn't want to. My parents insisted on it. My mom softened on my brother (youngest) and it made him weak and fearful. I am not saying I haven't had things handed to me but I worked too. Probably why things were handed to me. People saw I wasn't just a leech.
My point being dating an older guy doesn't guarantee fine dining, or financial rewards, anymore than being younger guarantees a guy will be better in bed. In fact it is often the opposite. From talking with females of different ages, over the years, guys under 25 can be lame in bed. Unfortunately some of us let them think they are good. I was guilty of this.
The truth is that many of us are in a chicken and egg situation. The cost of living is rising due to a housing bubble, so minimum wage work isn't enough to cover our costs - especially if we want to have the social life which is now necessary to secure a mate. However, men are turned down by potential mates because we don't have these things already, which has fueled a number of social problems. I guess what I am saying that a woman's expectations should change with the economic circumstances. If you delay commitment and don't get married at your sexual prime for economic reasons, you actually lose because you will have less options.
Also, since you mentioned starting a business, I should mention that this requires a lot of capital up front, due to the level of regulation and government bureaucracy we now have. As such you usually need business partners, which requires networking. I could go on and on here with examples of how challenging it can be to get people to commit money to a venture up front, from the start, but suspect that it would make little difference. Yes some people manage to do what you're saying when they're in their early 20s, but they're few and far between and almost always had a hand up from mom and dad. Nothing wrong with that, either, but it's just the reality.
You are wrong to assume that men (or women) in their 20s, who are just starting to find their way in life, won't have achieved anything significant two decades later. I am surprised to see you make a judgement like this, which is very damning and yet so easy to disprove.
It seems quite out of character for you to open yourself up to criticism.
Last edited by Spermatozoa; 09-25-2017 at 11:38 PM.
Not a swipe at you since I mention my own brother. I don't know what you do for a living. I know you create music but I said some made money while pursuing their creative interests so what is the problem?
If I am making incorrect assumption then perhaps you make incorrect assumptions about women as well and if you admit that we can call it a day. One being, younger men will love you like no older man can. How much experience do you have with being loved by younger or older men? I assume I have more than you. Is that an incorrect assumption?
I am not wrong about the things based on my personal experience. I didn't read about it, I lived it. Many people don't have anything to show for it decades later, look around you. Not that it applies to everyone. You can assume it is implied in everything I post that I am not talking about everyone so if you keep that in mind there won't be any misunderstanding. I didn't single you out at all so it was sufficient for you to say it didn't apply to you. You can't speak to my experience, or for others, anymore than I can so again we both are making assumptions not just me in this case if you want to maintain that.
Unfortunately people make sacrifices to live and it may have to come at the expense of a social life if you don't have options. That is how things work. I mean if people can get someone to support them whether they are male or female I don't begrudge them that. I have had lots of help. My statements included the words "some" as well. I was just responding to you claiming the following which was a sweeping statement too.
"If you prefer to date younger men, you must be tolerant about employment status and wealth, and lower your expectations of what courtship will be like. You will be physically loved in ways an older man couldn't match, but you will receive less shoes, jewelry and fine dining. Many young men are struggling to find work because of the shifts towards a service-based economy. That isn't our fault. Blame the older generations for allowing this to happen.
I have noticed that most women who pontificate about feminism still tend to rely on men to support them financially, and they're largely averse to "dating down". Anti-feminist women seem to be less judgemental about these things, on average."
ps. I never really considered myself a "feminist".
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
If you have this mentality, you expect your partner to provide support that is not always going to be realistic.
I am not talking just about my personal experience but actual evidence. In New Zealand, over 150,000 people aged 18 - 30 are currently not employed or in education. This is between 20 - 25% of our demographic by my estimation. There are similar issues in the U.S. and as I'm sure you can understand, this situation is forcing more and more people into living with their parents as well. High immigration has made unemployment among many other problems much, much worse, but that is another issue for another thread.
Anyway my point is that if you judge someone for the above, you limit your options, which is never a good idea. Should all of these people be instantly disqualified as potential dates?
The situation I'm describing is not unusual around the world, but crucially, outside the West it has not stopped young people from getting married and forming families. This makes me believe that inflated standards (materialism etc) are the problem, not our living conditions. Perhaps it is time that women in America etc adjusted their expectations to fit the economic environment they actually live in. We are already being forced to look into inter-generational models of home ownership down here. However, there needs to be an accompanying cultural change and lifestyle shift if we are to increase successful family formation.
I admit the evidence does not do much to sway me since I am not saying you are wrong about everything. I know no one wants to work for minimum wage but seeing people complain about it as the reason for not having a job doesn't evoke a sense of empathy in me and I am not going to apologize for how I feel. Not saying you are doing this. My brother uses this one on me even while asking me for money to take care of his basic wants, not even needs. I mention if he had a minimum wage job he could buy his own sneakers or video games and not ask his sister or mom for gas money or to send his gf a birthday present. His gf spends the most on him btw and he feels bad he can't buy her a gift. Guess what, min wage would take care of that. See my side now? I help him simply because I love him but I still think he needs to grow up. I am not his mother and my mother should be more demanding with him like she was with the girls.
I am not materialistic and never have been so I don't have expectations to adjust, tbh. I have supported a starving artist or two but at some point it gets to be too much. I have posted all this on the forum years back so this is not new info about me, except to those just reading it. No one wants to feel they are on the losing end of a relationship for sure. I have been on both sides of it.
Incidentally, the post you responded to, that sparked this little debate between us, by Lungs was her being sarcastic. From what I know she is very self sufficient and doesn't rely on a man or anyone else to pay her bills and I didn't read it that she was looking for someone to take care of her or looking for dating advice.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I moved in with my much older long term ex right out of high school and depended on him a lot financially, and my experience tells me that's a bad and unenviable strategy as it was always over my head and I felt like I had to compromise more than I normally would in a relationship. The guy I love now is just a little older than me, back in school and living totally off savings.
I actually felt I had little say or freedom when I was in a relationship where I didn't work at all. The worst part is he made me quit my job and then threw it in my face even keeping a spreadsheet of what I owed him. I could not live like that.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
:/ that's really shitty, sounds borderline abusive. The guy I was with would make little comments like "where would you be without me?" and stuff but nothing like that.
As a man I don't want my woman to work because I failed to provide for her so she had to, because providing for her is a way of expressing love at least to someone who suck at sweet talk like me (it is different story if she want to work or have unnecessary wants to satisfy), so I think it is so lowly of him to keep a spreadsheet of what you owed him after he made you quit your job
that's the nice way to say it. I think he was trying to enslave her by such act, since making her quit her job means she will be financially dependent on him then making her feel she owed him means she must compromise her free will as she can't pay back the debt and the more she owed him the less freewill she have. in short she ends up dependent on him & have no freewill which doesn't sound much different from being a slave imo
@Aylen or maybe it is just his sick way of saying "I want you for myself, and don't want you to leave me"
Last edited by Simo; 09-26-2017 at 06:54 AM.
It was a swipe at you and Kim tbh, because it's dfficult to understand why you go so hard after some people for their supposed sexism, but don't react at all to others. Same with @Kim, calling Adam gross, but joking around with Bane, who can be faaar more provocative and less polite than Adam. It's your right ofc, I just don't see any logic behind it and it's difficult to understand what "triggers" you (hate that word). It's one thing to be annoyed with someone, it's a different thing to call them terrible humans, morally corrupt basically and hang on to every word they say - it's a complete overreaction imo. It's not a swipe at you (or Kim) in general though, you're one of the cooler people here.
It wasn't addressed at you, since I don't know you. It was a general thing that I have observed in several Fi egos on this forum and it has always bothered me. I believe you that you get offended by everybody equally : D That doesn't change the fact that imo this thread is a ridiculous overraction to a lame joke. While you could call it sexist and react to that if you're not a fan of sexual jokes, I don't get how you could take a personal offense to that - as if it was a vicious attack on your person. To make a whole thread about this incident like you were almost raped is bizzare. Unless something illegal is happening, you're the one that is responsible for your feelings of hurt. You can't expect the whole world to adjust to your level of sensitivity. Ok, you were offended and think Adam is an asshole, it is what it is, but that doesn't mean that he's obliged to apologize to you or that we all have to play by your rules of interaction so you don't get hurt. The world is full of different people, many of them love that kind of playful banter even from total strangers because it loosens the interaction and makes it more fun. So it's impossible to take every individual in account, we can just set the border on legal/illegal so thinks don't go too far and for any other feelings of hurt that arise that's not a collective problem. Simply not liking something doesn't make it legit.
Soon you won't be able to say anything without somebody going crazy. "I'm pregnant, I'm so happy" - how dare you, you privileged person, I'm infertile, have you any idea how triggering this is. You always need to take infertile people into account." "Sex is a very important part of a relationship" - How dare you, what about asexuals - so they can't have meaningful relationships? " I would never date a guy who doesn't drive a car"- How dare you, epileptic people can't drive cars, stop discriminating against them. "It's hot when my bf is jealous and asks me who I'm going out with" - Run, girl. RUN. He's an abusive controlling asshole and this is clearly a toxic relationship. You don't know what is good for you, you are being brainwashed, ... .Just simply disagreeing with someone lately triggers people and everybody has a need for "safe space", like they were at least a victim of gang bang rape in Rwanda. Gmafb.
This is a general rant against radical sjw people btw, I don't think you're that extreme.
Just the shorter way of saying it.
Im a lot cooler with people that put things out there and are confrontable. Like if one of the people you mentioned says something sexist I could make a remark about it or have a debate with them about it and and it would make sense, others would see where I was coming from, they would be honest, it would all be on the up and up. When things fly under the radar more, or it's subtle but most people don't see it and I look "crazy" for pointing it out, the person lacks self awareness or is underhanded, that's when it gets under my skin. It might not be entirely fair or whatever, in a Ti way, but maybe that helps to understand it and you could probably see the people that piss me off vs don't falling along those lines.
Ps. Delilah didn't start this thread, it wasn't all about the joke, she just came in with one post about it.
Oh shit, dunno why I thought she started it lol - I'm scatterbrained lately. I apologize, @Delilah.
I get what you're saying about Adam being sneaky - sometimes it's difficult to tell if he's playing obtuse or if he's slightly autistic. Thanks for the explanation, it does make sense.
Wasn't Reuben (theblueblade) banned for this kind of thing? He was much younger.
ugh just ban everyone on the forum already we're in desperate need of a universal timeout
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