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Thread: ESEs/ESFjs and planning

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    Default ESEs/ESFjs and planning

    Isn't that a contradiction to being Ni polr?
    Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-04-2020 at 10:41 AM.




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    this is the problem of reducing a multi way confluence of values that constitute reinin dichotomies into a single word. its probably more accurate to say "they try to be 'farsighted'"

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    They try because they understand the world around them at an astonishingly slow uptake unless its explicitly clear.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    right the idea is the confluence creates the desire to be farsighted but without the ability to be so (or at least excel), when viewed in comparison to all the types. in other words ILI super ego

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    ESEs often don't properly gauge how long an activity will take- and then they take on too much in the day and wear themselves out. They often think an activity will take just 15 minutes when in reality it will take 3 1/2 hours. Ni *is* related to Time after all, some have argued against that because it was too simple but that's the way it goes.

    That is how the IEI supervises them.

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    Many ESEs seem to be really busy with activies that I might perceive as secondary.
    However, these activities also seem to make many people quite happy about the ESE's presence compared to my presence. So I guess they are gauging something I kind of don't perceive.
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    they have this thing they force their vision. The plans is not such that they just put in place naturally. Actually LSE is a better planer. Same amount of Ni

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    It's mostly that- just like Te is mostly about external str8 man businesses. I like wikipedia's explanation though:

    Time (T) is responsible for the estimation of the passage of time, the understanding of a course of processes in time, and forecasting. T understands how things may change and evolve over time and throughout history. T is acutely aware of events that are occurring outside of the immediate perception of the moment, and sees events as part of a continuous flow. T perceives the possible ramifications of future events and notices ties to the past. T observes behavioral patterns and can assess a person's character.



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    Real life example of the 'forecasting' part- I told my ESE mom she was going to slip on the ice if she went out and tried to shovel snow. She told me there was no way I could know that- and she went out and did it anyway. Sure enough she slipped on the ice and hurt her wrist lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    ESEs polr is Ni, so they are weak in regards foreseeing the future, patterns, consequences etc. Basically ESEs lack the strong ability to see how one action might lead to the other- of course obvious predictions are apparent to even the Ni polr.

    Yet, ESEs are typically long-range planners, and even like to have back-up plans for all their plans. ESEs and even LSEs have very specific goals and plans for their lives and work toward those plans on a frequent basis. They know what they want to achieve and how to get it (or maybe this is 4d Se).

    They like to save, don't take risks, plan for whatever they can foresee. They are also considered "farsighted" in socionics. Isn't that a contradiction to being Ni polr?
    I see it as the reason they plan is because they aren't confident that things will work out if they don't. In other words, if they had strong Ni, they'd be able to tweak things in small ways and stay on top of the flow of events without having to plan so much, the pattern would be much more obvious. The extensive planning Ni polrs engage in is to cover this weakness. Having a plan allows them to relax some and not worry as much about the future and what might happen.

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    Squark wins the thread.

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    Yeah the extent to which I procrastinate and wing it would probably give some people a heart attack... sometimes I wonder if I secretly enjoy the rush. Or just lack the Se to push myself (+Ne distractions) to do the things that need to be done but don't enjoy until I have no choice. But ESE planning can be quite successful at keeping them out of trouble even though I find it excessive. I guess the ideal middle ground is somewhere in between because even if I might do better than others would if they procrastinated as much as I that doesn't mean I'm doing better than the people who don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by starrangel View Post
    Real life example of the 'forecasting' part- I told my ESE mom she was going to slip on the ice if she went out and tried to shovel snow. She told me there was no way I could know that- and she went out and did it anyway. Sure enough she slipped on the ice and hurt her wrist lol.
    This is a better example of what weak Ni is like. Planning exactly what you're going to do tomorrow is not really Ni (or at least not strong Ni) - Ni is the awareness of what could follow from a particular action, especially its long-term consequences or significance in the greater scheme of things.
    For example, Ni would recognize that buying products from certain companies is tantamount to supporting abusive labor practices that those companies are engaging in.

    This is why "meaning" is closer to the definition of Ni than "planning" or "time". It recognizes what is below the surface.

    Also, again I must stress that wanting to plan everything in advance and control every detail is more characteristic of Ni-6 than Ni-4 (and more likely Ti-valuing as well).

    And it should go without saying, the carefree/farsighted concept is ridiculous and without basis.

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    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya
    Levels of EGO-SUPEREGO: chanels 3-1 and 3-1, aspects of intuition of time (Ni) and sensing of experiences (Si)

    On his program aspect, Esenin calculated everything correctly – it was wartime, any woman would have married him, thus it was possible to choose a woman who could take care of him and look after him. In this manner, he protected his normative aspect of sensing of experiences. Dumas, on the other hand, was dependent on the situation that was modeled by Esenin on the aspect of intuition of time. She fell into "intuitive dependence" of his "business proposal", which of course seemed pragmatic and calculated to her, but fully acceptable in wartime conditions in light of deficit of suitors. His proposal was also convincing because it fell on her most suggestible function, intuition of opportunities: she was afraid that she will miss this chance during difficult times. And here was a man with whom she already familiar with and a mutually beneficial proposal. Thus their relationship has taken off on mostly pragmatic grounds, while kindness, sensitivity, poetry, were only nominal aspects of their interaction.
    While not supervision – you'll see what it does.

    I think that kind of information is rather obvious.

    I estimated 'correctly' number of children people had during last century when I heard the first data point.
    A person said that I must have read lots of statistics considering people's lives.
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    @sorrows Ni is more of an indicator of what one would first consider in a planning activity and how one might going about doing it; it certainly isn't an indicator of farsightedness. Planning is a total system activity and cannot be attributed to one so-called information element.

    a.k.a. I/O

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