And wyh not?
ILI 7 this is possible?
And wyh not?
I have never met one. 7s are inherently more extroverted, optimistic, people which pulls them out of themselves and puts the focus on their outer world. This doesn't mean they can't temporarily look like a 7 while using some kind of substance (drugs or alcohol) but I would say it doesn't add up as a core type. Fundamental differences.
Just compare the two profiles. What correlations can be made between an ILI and 7? I am not even posting their ego functions. The cores of each type do not align in my mind.
Extroverted Ethics (Fe,)
ILIs are typically out of touch with expressing their emotional states. They are often seen as cold, unresponsive, and undesiring of human contact (which is often not the case). As a consequence, ILIs tend to be somewhat reclusive and often feel out of touch with their social surroundings. The rules of social "games" are often not naturally understood by ILIs. The are often unconfident and uneasy in social settings, especially those in which they feel that are expected to abide by social conventions that they have little connection to such as tribesmanship or purposeless joviality. Additionally, ILIs tend to regard the development of trust with others with significant anxiety, fearing that their inner world or antisocial tendencies will be unfavorably looked upon by others, and that most of the good will and friendliness they see in others is a pretense of social interaction rather than an expression of genuine emotional reactions. Often ILIs eschew many social situations and neglect emotional association with groups, instead seeking deep emotional connections with individuals.
ILIs are often seen as especially negative, overly critical, and sometimes harsh in their judgments. This is in part because ILIs -- when serious -- tend to communicate in a direct, straightforward manner. They sometimes are unaware of others' reactions to their ideas and may avoid sugar-coating them. Many ILIs see their criticism as constructive and believe that they would be doing others no good by withholding their ideas. Because of their incessant criticism and negativism, ILIs are sometimes seen as haughty or arrogant.
Super-Id Block
Extroverted Sensing (Se,)
ILIs are often characterized by their inertia. If left to their own devices, ILIs may choose to do relatively little to interact with the outside world. When they do interact with the outside world, ILIs often find their activities to be empty and unfulfilling. To ILIs, life is often characterized by periods of stimulation. For the ILI, however, true stimulation is often spontaneous, and interludes between periods of stimulation are often characterized by tedium, inertia, and apathy. ILIs are often not very adept at finding new areas of interest, and may seek to continue to reproduce past experiences instead of moving on to new things. In order to break out of this cycle, ILIs require an outside stimulus of spontaneity and activity. With such a degree of spontaneity introduced into their lives, the tedium and perceived meaninglessness is replaced by a constant state of activity in which the ILI can experience new things and escape from the confines of his own mind.
ILIs may often have an attitude of reticence towards enlisting the assistance or company of other people. This subdued attitude is due to a strong disinclination on the part of ILIs to annoy or bother others with their needs. They also may tend to assume that others are not interested in them or what they are doing, and that offers to help them represent a facade of social nicety rather than genuine interest or good will.
ILIs are additionally very indecisive. They may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially with regards to their own future. ILIs do not always necessarily know what they want out of life and may have difficulty setting or achieving long term goals. In order to be able to act, ILIs require an impetus from someone who has a clear goal or material vision and the energy to pursue such an ideal.
ILIs may perceive work-related or intellectual pursuits as being of great long-term importance, but such interests are often not perceived as possessing great importance in the short term and rarely suffice as a true replacement for the discomfort that an ILI may feel at his lack of decisiveness or inertia.
Introverted Ethics (Fi,)
Fi is a strikingly influential factor in the mindset of an ILI. ILIs tend to deeply value feelings of attachment to those whom engage them in a deep and lasting emotional kinship. They have a hard time establishing these sentiments as they are naturally disinterested in most people, who seem outwardly unremarkable or having nothing in common with them. However, when the ILI has developed deep interpersonal bonds, they tend to hold on to such attachments very deeply. ILIs are almost always deeply unconfident about their social abilities and, consequently, they rarely speak of their inner bonds with others to common outsiders with whom they share merely superficial acquaintanceships. Feelings of this sort are rarely talked about with others, but the ILI may be painfully aware of these sentiments for fear of appearing overly sentimental or having feelings that are "out of line" or inappropriate to their present level of social interaction. ILIs may tend to love from afar and in their solitude if there is something or someone they love, because of their lack of confidence in their own feelings. Some ILIs may even be closet romantics. ILIs can also be quite sensitive, despite their outward emotional reservation, and are sometimes far more emotionally vulnerable than they demonstrate.
In general, ILIs are fundamentally good-natured and conscionable people who may place a great deal of importance on ethical principles. In fact, ILIs may have a very strong sense of good will and loyalty towards others if they find the others to be similarly reasonable, trustworthy individuals. ILIs do not always demonstrate this loyalty explicitly. As a consequence, ILIs are not always seen as kind people, instead more typically appearing standoffish, cold, or hostile. If ILIs are drawn in by sincere and engaging individuals, the ILI's sense of compassion may be realized and so surface. ILIs can be calm, attentive, and sympathetic listeners to the plights of their emotionally volatile duals, and can be very drawn to the state of deep bonds that they feel with them.
Many less actualized ILIs hold a far more vindictive attitude. This occurs, among other scenarios, when ILIs are depressed about people, and especially when ILIs are suffering from a lack of support from others. In these scenarios the ILI may aggressively attack people's intelligence, ideas, or character rather unrelentlessly. Even so, such actions may precipitate conflict which the ILI is liable to find highly tiresome and frustrating -- as well as blurring the ILI's mental image of the facts, thus making him feel as though his work is unfinished. Such people who have been blacklisted are often in the ILI's eyes very deserving of this role, but the ILI may find that other people do not agree and faces the choice of either withdrawing in order to avoid interacting with the object of derision, or else continuing to interact, thus perpetuating the process and compounding the ILI's frustration. Such judgments may be very difficult to extricate from the ILI; such a process requires a copious amount of often thankless moral support and truth; SEEs are the only persons equipped for this task, and may in their occasional naivete of others' motivations benefit from the ILI's rather harsh stances. Typically, however, if the ILI is engaged with people with whom he feels very close and respects, he sees little need to interact with such individuals that would inspire his aggression.
ILIs rarely, if ever, take it upon themselves to display emotional, social, or physical initiative. To engage other people, especially in unfamiliar circumstances, can be a harrowing task for ILIs, and one from which most ILIs usually try to refrain. Nonetheless, ILIs are often treated with uncertainty or dubitation by most others due to their large inability to give off clear emotional data; ILIs may appear overly polite, formal, and robotic in social situations. ILIs seeking emotional ties with individuals may find themselves forced to take the initiative with others, a task for which even friendly ILIs are poorly equipped and bogged down with uncertainty. Even when ILIs do take some initiative upon themselves, they almost never succeed in reaching a depth of emotional connection which satisfies them.
Realization and development of Fi in ILIs represents a process of growth. Some ILIs with minimally developed Fi can be far less aware of the importance of lasting emotions, and can appear far more insensitive, unfriendly, and antagonistic.
Id Block
Extroverted Intuition (Ne,)
Though ILIs often have deep intellectual interests, they are likely to be relatively limited in the range of ideas that they consider. Whereas Ne leading types may jump from idea to idea in quick succession, ILIs are likely to focus more closely on a more limited batch of mental themes in their ruminations. ILIs are also often critical of new ideas which do not correspond to their overall understanding of a subject.
ILIs often believe that a well developed understanding of a situation is of greater importance than a deep understanding of the potential outcomes. To an ILI, it would be a silly exercise to simply list a number of possible outcomes without considering the likelihood of their realization and why they may or may not come to pass.
ILIs may be more apt to take a more practical or imagination-oriented approach to evaluating the outside world. They are unlikely to generate comprehensive ideas about new and unusual concepts that they have just discovered; instead, they most typically incorporate new information into their database carefully and ploddingly. They may instead seek to expand upon aspects of things they already know or build upon their own internal realities -- such as thinking of possible characteristics or plots for inner mental universes. Additionally, they may seek to exert their mental faculties to deal with ideas in the real world, such as those pertaining to areas like economics, politics, or anything regarding the development of modern society.
ILIs often have difficulty adapting themselves to new intellectual interests. They instead seek to limit the amount of new information that they have to learn. Consequently, they may recycle interests until the same interests become a drudgery, even so much that intellectual progress becomes stunted.
Type Seven Overview
We have named this personality type The Enthusiast because Sevens are enthusiastic about almost everything that catches their attention. They approach life with curiosity, optimism, and a sense of adventure, like “kids in a candy store” who look at the world in wide-eyed, rapt anticipation of all the good things they are about to experience. They are bold and vivacious, pursuing what they want in life with a cheerful determination. They have a quality best described by the Yiddish word “chutzpah”—a kind of brash “nerviness.”
Although Sevens are in the Thinking Center, this is not immediately apparent because they tend to be extremely practical and engaged in a multitude of projects at any given time. Their thinking is anticipatory: they foresee events and generate ideas “on the fly,” favoring activities that stimulate their minds—which in turn generate more things to do and think about. Sevens are not necessarily intellectual or studious by any standard definition, although they are often intelligent and can be widely read and highly verbal. Their minds move rapidly from one idea to the next, making Sevens gifted at brainstorming and synthesizing information. Sevens are exhilarated by the rush of ideas and by the pleasure of being spontaneous, preferring broad overviews and the excitement of the initial stages of the creative process to probing a single topic in depth.
Devon, a successful business woman, shares with us some of the inner workings of her Seven mindset.“I am definitely a list person. It’s not really for memory since I have a great memory. It’s more for down-loading information so that my mind won’t spin on it. For example, I was at a concert where the tickets were hard to get and very expensive. I couldn’t sit through it. My mind was torturing me with the things I needed to do. Finally, I had to get up and leave. This was very upsetting to the person I went with and I missed a good show.”Sevens are frequently endowed with quick, agile minds, and can be exceptionally fast learners. This is true both of their ability to absorb information (language, facts, and procedures) and their ability to learn new manual skills—they tend to have excellent mind-body coordination, and manual dexterity (typewriting, piano playing, tennis). All of this can combine to make a Seven into the quintessential "Renaissance person."
Ironically, Sevens' wide-ranging curiosity and ability to learn quickly can also create problems for them. Because they are able to pick up many different skills with relative ease, it becomes more difficult for them to decide what to do with themselves. As a result, they also do not always value their abilities as they would if they had to struggle to gain them. When Sevens are more balanced however, their versatility, curiosity, and ability to learn can lead them to extraordinary achievement.
The root of their problem is common to all of the types of the Thinking Center: they are out of touch with the inner guidance and support of their Essential nature. As with Fives and Sixes, this creates a deep anxiety in Sevens. They do not feel that they know what to do or how to make choices that will be beneficial to themselves and others. Sevens cope with this anxiety in two ways. First, they try to keep their minds busy all of the time. As long as Sevens can keep their minds occupied, especially with projects and positive ideas for the future, they can, to some extent, keep anxiety and negative feelings out of conscious awareness. Likewise, since their thinking is stimulated by activity, Sevens are compelled to stay on the go, moving from one experience to the next, searching for more stimulation. This is not to say that Sevens are "spinning their wheels." They generally enjoy being practical and getting things done.
Frances, a successful business consultant, sounds more energetic than is humanly possible—and yet, she is a typical Seven:“I am highly, highly productive. At the office, I am joyful and my mind is running at its best. I might create several marketing campaigns for a client, work on the outline for an upcoming seminar, talk out a difficult problem with a client on the telephone, close two deals, make a project list, dictate a few letters and look up to see that it’s 9:30 a.m. and my assistant is coming in to start our work for the day.”Second, Sevens cope with the loss of Essential guidance by using the “trial and error” method: they try everything to make sure they know what is best. On a very deep level, Sevens do not feel that they can find what they really want in life. They therefore tend to try everything—and ultimately may even resort to anything as a substitute for what they are really looking for. (“If I can’t have what will really satisfy me, I’ll enjoy myself anyway. I’ll have all kinds of experiences—that way I will not feel bad about not getting what I really want.”)
We can see this in action even in the most trivial areas of their daily lives. Unable to decide whether he wants vanilla, chocolate, or strawberry ice cream, a Seven will want all three flavors—just to be sure that he does not miss out on the “right” choice. Having two weeks for a vacation and a desire to visit Europe brings a similar quandary. Which countries and cities to visit? Which sites to see? The Seven’s way of dealing with this will be to cram as many different countries, cities, and attractions into his vacation as possible. While they are scrambling after exciting experiences, the real object of their heart’s desire (their personal Rosebud, as it were) may be so deeply buried in their unconscious that they are never really aware of precisely what it is.
Furthermore, as Sevens speed up their pursuit of whatever seems to offer freedom and satisfaction, they tend to make worse choices, and they are less able to be satisfied because everything is experienced indirectly, through the dense filter of their fast-paced mental activity. The result is that Sevens end up anxious, frustrated, and enraged, with fewer resources available to them physically, emotionally, or financially. They may end up ruining their health, their relationships, and their finances in their search for happiness.
Gertrude is busy establishing her career and family now, but she looks back at how this tendency contributed to her getting a rough start in life.“There wasn’t anything to do at home or in the tiny Southern town I grew up in. I was dying to get out of it and go someplace more exciting. When I was 16, I started dating, and before long I got pregnant, but the father didn’t want to marry me—which was okay since I didn’t want to marry him, either. It wasn’t too long before I found somebody else, and we got married, and I got to move to a larger city. But it didn’t really work out the way I wanted because after I had the baby, we broke up and I had to move back home. I stayed there for a year or two to get my feet on the ground. When things were looking bleak, I married someone else. I’m 19 now and I guess I’ve done a lot already.”On the positive side, however, Sevens are extremely optimistic people—exuberant and upbeat. They are endowed with abundant vitality and a desire to fully participate in their lives each day. They are naturally cheerful and good humored, not taking themselves too seriously, or anything else for that matter. As we have seen, the Basic Desire of Sevens is to be satisfied, happy, and fulfilled, and when they are balanced within themselves, their joy and enthusiasm for life naturally affect everyone around them. They remind us of the pure pleasure of existence—the greatest gift of all.
(from The Wisdom of the Enneagram, p. 262-264)
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Both descriptions fit me. My family thinks of me as a kid. I often hear from them that I am "like a child".
Many years ago I thought I was 4v3, but I do not want to die when I'm bad in life and I do not suffer from drama. No one died, no one left me, I missed nothing when I was a child.
My childhood was joyful, full of fun, cool.
And above all healthy 7 is responsible and does not break into drinks, endless fun, sex and other entertainment. He also does not run away from responsibility. So I am sure that ILI + 7 fit very well.
can you highlight the parts that fit you in both descriptions?Originally Posted by edd
have you considered ILE?My family thinks of me as a kid. I often hear from them that I am "like a child".
I can not take a piece of the description because they are 100% suited to me.
I'm not LIE.
then can you explain the following contradictions between the two types descriptions (I included ILI ego descriptions you can check the full description here)
Contradiction #1
from E7 description: We have named this personality type The Enthusiast because Sevens are enthusiastic about almost everything that catches their attention. They approach life with curiosity, optimism, and a sense of adventure, like “kids in a candy store” who look at the world in wide-eyed, rapt anticipation of all the good things they are about to experience.
from ILI description: ILIs predict inevitable disaster not altogether infrequently. This type of fatalism is spurned by their ability to see the negative in anything, which has its roots in the ILI's general dislike of expressing or reinforcing positive emotions. To an ILI, it may be easier to predict pessimistic results in order to avoid an unpleasant emotional reaction. Likewise, the ILI's sense of general self doubt leads him to be very conservative in his general outlook; why unnecessarily subject oneself to the uncertainty of possible disappointment?
Contradiction #2
from E7 description: They are bold and vivacious, pursuing what they want in life with a cheerful determination. They have a quality best described by the Yiddish word “chutzpah”—a kind of brash “nerviness.”
from ILI description: ILIs can, in certain situations, act very tentatively. In many situations they are inclined to hesitate prior to taking any action or making important decisions. They may commonly be pervasively plagued by gnawing doubts on any topic that they contemplate. They may also prefer to observe and gather an understanding of a situation rather than actively participate. The ILI's restraint complements the hyperactivity of his dual, the SEE.
+
ILIs are often characterized by their inertia. If left to their own devices, ILIs may choose to do relatively little to interact with the outside world. When they do interact with the outside world, ILIs often find their activities to be empty and unfulfilling.
Contradiction #3
from E7 description: Although Sevens are in the Thinking Center, this is not immediately apparent because they tend to be extremely practical and engaged in a multitude of projects at any given time. Their thinking is anticipatory: they foresee events and generate ideas “on the fly,” favoring activities that stimulate their minds—which in turn generate more things to do and think about. Sevens are not necessarily intellectual or studious by any standard definition, although they are often intelligent and can be widely read and highly verbal. Their minds move rapidly from one idea to the next, making Sevens gifted at brainstorming and synthesizing information. Sevens are exhilarated by the rush of ideas and by the pleasure of being spontaneous, preferring broad overviews and the excitement of the initial stages of the creative process to probing a single topic in depth.
from ILI description: Though ILIs often have deep intellectual interests, they are likely to be relatively limited in the range of ideas that they consider. Whereas Ne leading types may jump from idea to idea in quick succession, ILIs are likely to focus more closely on a more limited batch of mental themes in their ruminations. ILIs are also often critical of new ideas which do not correspond to their overall understanding of a subject.
To an ILI, it would be a silly exercise to simply list a number of possible outcomes without considering the likelihood of their realization and why they may or may not come to pass.
ILIs often have difficulty adapting themselves to new intellectual interests. They instead seek to limit the amount of new information that they have to learn. Consequently, they may recycle interests until the same interests become a drudgery, even so much that intellectual progress becomes stunted.
and this is just the tip of the iceberg
I said ILE not LIEI'm not LIE.
Last edited by Simo; 09-10-2017 at 11:24 AM.
I am not ILE. I am ILI.
How do I get rid of this when you have a closed mind?
For you ILI 7 does not exist.
Will my translation not be a waste of time right now?
Helen Palmer says that Enneagram type 7 is the Epicure.
Basic Proposition: Pain and frustration can be avoided and the good life assured by inventing options, opportunities, and adventures.
Habitual Focus of Attention: The positive in all things
What "Epicures" tell us about themselves:
- Life is an adventure!
- "Epicures" are pleasure-seeking and gluttons for experience and enjoyment;
- They are optimistic, active, and energetic;
- See multiple options, but
- have difficulty with commitment; and
- Do not want limits on themselves.
I dated an ILI female for a short time, and she traveled all over the country, had multiple BF's (she was exploring her options), had fragrant oils in her office, and was smart as hell.
I also know a DARPA manager who is ILI, and he also travels all over the country with an entourage of Highly Effective People. His job is not to invent things, but rather to evaluate where the money could be best spent. His life leans toward the e7 definition.
Normally, I'd expect an ILI to be an e5, or less likely an e1 or e9, but I suppose they could be an e7, too.
I will admit, though, @Sol makes a good argument, particularly with respect to ILI's seeing the negative and e7's seeing the positive.
Yeah...
Due to edd relating to both, 100%, that would be my guess too. An ILI 5 could disintegrate to 7 but op is saying they are a healthy 7, which could be more like a 5 when healthy. They are also described "like a child" by family so depending on how they mean that it could be an "infantile" thing. There could be a big difference between being "child-like" and "like a child" though. Depends on how the family means it.
I have correlated my tritype to my 4D functions, creative, HA and temperament. The only thing that keeps me from being too far off in my own world is my instinct stacking which has kept me connected to the world. I have put a lot of thought into this and that is what the "whole" looks like from my perspective. It is NOT the only tritype and instinct stacking that works for others, that self type the same as me, in socionics, but it is the one that fits me. It looks like an intricate spider web of connections in my head. lol. For me it works but enneagram really is a different system that deals more with core fears and motivations. The thing is if you see yourself as a very extroverted type in one system, and very introverted in another, maybe more introspection is in order but what do I know.
7 correlates really well with Ne lead and to a lesser extent Se lead only because 7s are more in their heads and future thinking, in that Ne way, than Se leads so 7w8 > 7w6 seems a bit more fitting for Se core 7s.
7w6 seems more fitting for Ne leads for various reasons I am not going into but these are just some things that make sense to me. The only time an ILI, I knew, could have been misidentified as a 7 was during the most stressful time of their life when they kind of lost their mind and was trying to push away their pain. Anyone perceptive enough would have seen right through that to see it was not natural to him. Gluttony and hedonism was his downfall when he hit bottom. He was a core 5 though without a doubt, 145 tritype (The Researcher ).
vs 5 for ILI (5 is one example of what I can see for them... not the only core that could fit)Under Stress (Seven Goes to Average One)
Sevens value their spontaneity and so tend to follow their impulses, for better or for worse. As a result, they can become scattered in their attention and energy, leaping from one promising idea to the next, from one activity to another. While this can be exciting, it often leaves Sevens frustrated with themselves because they feel that they are not accomplishing as much as they would like to. At such times, they begin to behave like average Ones—pulling in the reins on themselves and trying to get more organized and self-controlled. But because they are trying to impose order and control on themselves, they begin to feel trapped and restricted. This only makes them more frustrated, impatient, and irritable. They may, for instance, become critical of their own creative ideas before they have really had a chance to develop them. Similarly, they cannot avoid feeling disappointment with people and many aspects of their environment. Nothing seems to meet their expectations, and they can become harsh and perfectionistically critical with themselves and with others.
Security (Seven Goes to Average Five)
Sevens often feel it is their duty to entertain others and to keep their environment positive and exciting. Over time, this can be exhausting—even for Sevens. When they are tired of being "on" for everyone, they may choose to withdraw even from their intimates and seek seclusion and noninterference. This can come as a shock to others. ("You've been out having fun with everyone else, so why are you so quiet and unavailable with me?") They no longer want to put out energy for anyone else, and can become almost obsessively focused and preoccupied. They can also be surprisingly withdrawn and isolated, like Fives. Their body language and aloof responses let others know that they want space and privacy. At such times, Sevens make no effort to entertain or energize others. Like Fives, they retreat from contact and attempt to restore their energy.
Integration (Seven Goes to Healthy Five)
As Sevens learn to relax and to tolerate their uncomfortable feelings more completely, they stop using their restless minds to distract themselves. Their minds become quiet, clear, and focused, allowing Sevens to tap more deeply into their reserves of creativity and insight. They are able to prioritize not by imposing some arbitrary order on themselves but by following their true interests and staying with them. Thus, they become far more productive, satisfied, and really satisfying as companions. Their capacity to find connections and to synthesize information is not drawn off into tangents—they produce results, and this gives them grounds for real confidence in themselves and in life. As they experience the world more deeply, they find each moment fascinating, profound, and revelatory. The idea of boredom becomes absurd as they savor the incredible mysteries of existence, moment by moment.
https://sites.google.com/site/upatel8/personalitytype7
Under Stress (Five Goes to Average Seven)
Fives usually cope with difficulties by retreating into their minds where they feel more confident and in control. But Fives cannot retreat indefinitely, and eventually they need stimulation and interaction. Fives also tend to be nervous and high-strung, so when there is no outlet for their nervous energy, it builds up, eventually expressing itself in restlessness and hyperactivity. (Fives can become literally "restless"—and often develop insomnia.) Anxiety causes their minds to overheat, and to jump from one thought to the next. Much of their characteristic focus gets scattered. After being alone and concentrating for so long, they begin to overcompensate by overdoing their activities and lurching from one promising idea or experience to another. They become like a starving person at a banquet, and their scattered, hyperactive behavior can look like that of an average Seven. At such times, usually quiet Fives may become very talkative, impulsive, and flighty. Their underlying anxiety gets acted out in compulsive, even manic, behavior in ways that resemble lower-functioning Sevens.
Security (Five Goes to Average Eight)
Most often, if Fives feel that others are intruding on them or imposing their wills, they will simply leave quietly if they can or shut down into a detached, disdainful silence. With people or situations in which they have more confidence, however, Fives may suddenly risk behaving like average Eights, forcefully asserting their boundaries and confronting anyone or anything that displeases them. They become feisty, argumentative, and relentlessly provocative. In this mode, they take a tough stance, putting everyone on notice that they cannot be trifled with, but in ways that often cause people to react against them. They may become domineering, even aggressive, while questioning others' competency.
Integration (Five Goes to Healthy Eight)
As Fives begin to understand the emotional cost of their self-imposed isolation, they begin to risk deeper, more complete, contact with themselves and with the world. They become more grounded, more in touch with their bodies and their life energy, giving them more confidence and solidity. As this process deepens, integrating Fives naturally begin to express many qualities of the healthy Eight: they demonstrate leadership, courage, practical wisdom, and the willingness to take responsibility. They move from feeling small and powerless to feeling grounded and capable. Their knowledge and insight are then in service to objective needs in their world, and they are sought by others as sources of wisdom, compassion, and quiet strength.
https://sites.google.com/site/upatel8/personalitytype5
More comparison material.
Actually you asked the question so you have to expect these kinds of question. If by translation you mean show your correlations, I think that could be helpful. You could show how it works and teach the close minded something new.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I guess I am close-minded for unrealistic ideas (and the things that don't interest me as well), but I can accept them if you can show me a proof
you asked if it is possible for an ILI to be E7 as well and I told you that logically those two types have a lot of contradictions between them & asked you to explain how do those contradictions apply to you 100%, if you can't explain that then you are wasting everyone's time
it seems to me you just started the thread so people would affirm you that you can be both & you live happily ever after, if that is the case I have no interest in babysitting you
I eliminate the possibility as well, as mentioned by @Aylen (dis-)integration toward 7 is far more likely. Even in the tritype, 5 and 6 in the head center match up a lot better with what ILI can metabolize. No rule without exception, but this trend is compelling.
First and foremost, the assertive 7 is very extroverted, or externally oriented at least. ILI as one of the most clear-cut introtims of the socion is not.
7's mindset revolves all around finding joy and abundance in life, and whether those accessible or not. ILI's approach comes from the perspective of restriction, linearity, and being economical.ignoring, weak
and
vulnerable contribute a lot to their polar stance to 7. I think that the only quality they share is anticipation. Yet in general, 7's topics i.e. motivations are not considered and accessible - SEE would be the one perfectly suited to be a 7/winging at 7/having a 7-ish tritype instead.
Well, when a person is in crisis, they can look like an "opposite" type. ILI can look like SEE, enneagram types can subvert.
I'm pretty well convinced that edd is ILI-Te. For one thing, she knows herself best. For another, my emphasis on the visual tells me that her avatar picture (the recliner) is incredibly cool and rational, which is ILI to the core. Plus, she's a fighter, so she's Te rather than Ni. (Quite frankly, an SEE wouldn't think to represent themselves that way.)
Her flowery profile picture is attractive, vibrant, complex, and detailed, with not a human in sight. I'd say she is a bold, optimistic, thinking female, probably introverted. It seems like she could also be an e7. Or pass for one.
I am a denial 1.
true she knows herself best but are you sure she really understand socionics or even enneagram? or whether her understanding is biased?
I really don't care how each person types themselves but if they asked for advice you should be able to tell them when their assumptions are wrong, since it is about finding the truth about themselves not to keep their self-delusions otherwise there won't be any self awareness to be gained
I think giving someone a false hope just to see them fall into despair later on is really one of the worst things a person may do, that is why when someone make such a contradicting claim I think one should not be quick to be convinced and rather try to argue against him/her until there is a proof to support the claim otherwise that person would start to believe their own lie & build a false understanding on a false foundation just to see it crumble in front of their eyes
Yes, @Simo, people have different levels of understanding socionics types and enneagram types. I don't think they will fall into despair if they later discover that another type fits them better. But someone can feel rejected by a group if everyone keeps telling them something that disagrees with what they think. It is possible for the group to be wrong.
Personality theories are not an exact science, and we are still learning about what goes with what.
And aside from that, a person's understanding of a type's characteristics can be very poor. For example, when I first discovered Socionics after knowing MBTI for many years, I was not aware of the j/p shift, and I thought that all test results spoke the same language. As a result, when I met an attractive woman of MBTI type INFJ (socionics type IEI), I read Stratiyevskaya's account of semi-duality relations between ENTj and INFj and I thought that our romantic relationship should proceed very easily. It did not. Lol.
Again, I asked a woman I work with to take a MBTI test, and her type came out to be ISFJ (which translates roughly to SEI, my conflictor, but I didn't know this. I thought it meant we were duals). I told her, "Guess what? We are duals!" and her response was to screw up her nose like I was a bad odor and say "You?" Obviously, she knew more about how she felt than any test could tell her. Eventually, inter-type relations will provide an answer, and in the meantime, I could be very wrong again.
So I believe that it is best to keep an open mind, and to pay close attention to what people are saying, but not to come to any conclusion without a lot of evidence.
One other note. I make my living by solving people's problems, and what they tell me is not always what I see, but sometimes they are right and sometimes I am right and sometimes neither of us is right, but it is important to keep talking and checking the evidence.
well the despair part was me trying to be dramatic don't take it too seriously
the truth doesn't always agree with you and if you surround yourself only with those who agree with you then you may never face your own biasesBut someone can feel rejected by a group if everyone keeps telling them something that disagrees with what they think. It is possible for the group to be wrong.
but it doesn't make sense if one system says something that contradict the other systemPersonality theories are not an exact science, and we are still learning about what goes with what.
keeping an open-mind and ignoring contradictions are two different things, I am not saying we should ignore what she said but I ask her to show how two contradictory traits can exist on the same person and as long as I don't get a satisfying answer I won't believe it, but that doesn't deny her the right to type herself as she see fitSo I believe that it is best to keep an open mind, and to pay close attention to what people are saying, but not to come to any conclusion without a lot of evidence.
no one is always right but more importantly you said you make your living by solving people's problems? what exactly is your job? and what type of problems do you solve?One other note. I make my living by solving people's problems, and what they tell me is not always what I see, but sometimes they are right and sometimes I am right and sometimes neither of us is right, but it is important to keep talking and checking the evidence.
+1
What the shit is the point of making a thread asking a question when you expect people to answer "yes". This is why I don't post anymore. Might as well have titled it "Tell me why ILIs can be enneagram 7". And given how contradictory it is with being ILI, at least address the contradictions, if this is going to be an "ILIs can be 7" thread. Otherwise, congratulations on telling everyone they are wrong when you can't even be bothered to explain why.
Shit.
*Going back to occasional lurking*
AGRESSIVE DEFENSE - lack of ability to accept criticism and aggressive reaction to it. Aggressive reaction is intended to underestimate an interlocutor's assessment and thus raise his or her voice.
We have nothing to talk about.
Its not possible, you are wrongly typed in one of these two systems. Maybe both.
Hey, feel free to PM me with any opinions about my type
I put on my favorite colors. I'm so dressed
black
gray
blue
navy blue
yellow
pink
white
silver
purple
emerald
I am all black, on another day in pink. Same with other colors. Colors are intense, more despicable here. I often mix pink or yellow with black or other dark colors.
Am I 7 or 4?
They haven't posted much so what exactly in their posts convinced you of ILI-Te? I read posts and chatbox conversations and nothing particularly pointed to Ni or Te ego. From what I could tell they are using google translate for reading all this stuff, and interacting on the forum, so people are right to think they may be misunderstanding some of the material. I think your emphasis on how the visuals make you feel may be overriding critical thinking. They also said they are a healthy 7 so that does not sound like someone in crisis.
Who is everyone? It was only Simo, Chae and me who had responded to that point and no one was mean about it. You have not worried about other people feeling rejected when giving your evaluations in the past but now you are worried about someone not feeling welcome? They created the thread to ask a specific question. Why would you rather reinforce misinformation instead of just explaining why it is incompatible by theory? Disagreement with someone's understanding is not the equivalent of rejecting someone as a person.But someone can feel rejected by a group if everyone keeps telling them something that disagrees with what they think. It is possible for the group to be wrong.
^ you responding to simo.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
it is quality not quantity
so maybe we are three only but we are equal to 3000 (I equal to 2500 & both you & @Chae equal to 250 each)
glad to know I wasn't really sure, but still if she is using google translate then our long posts may have been overwhelmingand no one was mean about it.
lol
^ you responding to simo.
I'm so afraid of long texts. Seriously. I`m think I`m dying.
Don't die on me pleaseI'm so afraid of long texts. Seriously. I`m think I`m dying.
I didn't mean to overwhelm you with those long posts and I am sure @Aylen feels the same, she's one of the nicest people you will meet here but I understand if you find this hard to believe
Ah, my problem is that i'm just afraid of the letters xd Small and big, no difference.Don't die on me please
I didn't mean to overwhelm you with those long posts and I am sure @Aylen feels the same, she's one of the nicest people you will meet here but I understand if you find this hard to believe
She`s sticky? What do you mean?
Where did sticky come from?
I am saying she is nice and the rest is me teasing her so you can ignore it
I would think that an ILI could go through a phase of sensation seeking where they behaved and felt like a 7. It should pass when the feeling of the incompleteness of a 7 life begin to emerge.
incompleteness ? What do you mean?
I knew I made the right choice when I hired you as my PR rep. You have a talent for riding that line between fact and fiction.Don't die on me please
I didn't mean to overwhelm you with those long posts and I am sure @Aylen feels the same, she's one of the nicest people you will meet here but I understand if you find this hard to believe
*"hard to believe"
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I once did this test and it came out: 7, 5v6, 8. But 5 lives in the past, I did not. I look forward to the future.
Can I look to the future by any wing?
That 7 could only be temporary.
since you realize how awesome I am, I guess it is a good time to ask for a raiseI knew I made the right choice when I hired you as my PR rep. You have a talent for riding that line between fact and fiction.
*"hard to believe"
who said 5 lives in the past?
I am not 5. I'm not 5; I do not withdraw; I am more like 8. I dont hide.
simo, 5,4 and 9 - for this past is very important. Not for me.
wait.......you're getting paid?!since you realize how awesome I am, I guess it is a good time to ask for a raise
Okay okay I believe you, you aren't a 5 but I don't think you're an ILI either though it is just an impression so I can't prove it
did you think I do stuff for free? it is business & @Aylen pays well so I get to have a good time making money
1. I have so I see this and that. I'm a curious child of the world and at the same time I see wadach, fatalism ito everything that gives ILI. It's a little weird because I have the impression that my 7 is a little messed up by ILI and vice versa, the seven are driving me. Sometimes I have such that when I have an idea I have to think it a million times and then I work, and sometimes I work immediately. Sometimes I feel like at war, ILI fight with 7, who will win this time?
2. I often have taqk that I have to rethink everything exactly, turn from each side - like a coin. I often get the impression that I'm stuck forever. And then I'm starting to work and nothing stops me. Sometimes I'm scared, sometimes not. It's hard for me to stain.
3. I have a lot of ideas. Really much. But I know that I have to limit it in some way and to arrange it because I will not give it all one at a time. I have to segregate them and give them to them, ect. Or I'll think of another way for them. And yet, my ideas are very practical in 98%. I do not know what I would not be sure it makes sense. Of course, I have a lot of impractical ideas - segregation, evaluation of their usefulness. I hit the most effective.
I do not know what else to write, maybe ask me specific questions.
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