Se vs Si valuing; how can you tell?

[justalitnerdxx]

This has probably been discussed and solved on here before, so I am sorry if I've repeated a previous topic...but...how does one tell if they are Si or Se valuing? Objectively I can see the merits of both functions yet I know I am definitely weak in Se and better at Si. I'm more a passive person who not so much indulges, but becomes uptight easily and needs to make a conscious effort to unwind and iron out any bodily aches. I do tend to overindulge in comfort eating as a form of stress relief, and prefer harmony to conflict and battles of wills. Though I do admire those who are able to push forward and succeed their goals. I probably have Si and Se down totally wrong so I'm sorry if I'm wrong. As always, any ideas and input is welcome :3

[Bertrand]

do you feel the moral highground can sometimes be a call to aggressive action, or is goodness generally on the side of pacifity and non aggression. would you take an unhappy peace over open conflict? (conflict may be merely verbal confrontations, doesn't have to be outright physical violence, but it could be)

[justalitnerdxx]

do you feel the moral highground can sometimes be a call to aggressive action, or is goodness generally on the side of pacifity and non aggression. would you take an unhappy peace over open conflict? (conflict may be merely verbal confrontations, doesn't have to be outright physical violence, but it could be)

I find unhappy peace very uncomfortable and painful to be around because it usually explodes into all out conflict or a ruined relationship, I hate conflict too so much but I prefer the air being cleared, oeoole being upfront with how they feel and what they stand for, so you can either seek compromise and work with them or distance completely cause of the irreconcilable values.

[justalitnerdxx]

And I think goodness can both be pacifism and the call to action to defend the innocent from terrorism. So both are good depending on the situation.

[Bertrand]

lol this comes up a lot: yeah of course you want to resolve both situations!--but if you had to choose! one or the other, which would you "settle" on? in other words, if you werent sure "sorting things out" would help and could make things worse would you feel compelled to "try your best" or would you feel compelled to "not make things worse".. obviously neither is ideal, but sometimes the only options life presents us with are between bad and worse

[justalitnerdxx]

lol this comes up a lot: yeah of course you want to resolve both situations!--but if you had to choose! one or the other, which would you "settle" on? in other words, if you werent sure "sorting things out" would help and could make things worse would you feel compelled to "try your best" or would you feel compelled to "not make things worse".. obviously neither is ideal, but sometimes the only options life presents us with are between bad and worse

Pfft I'm the queen of wishy washy answers

ok in my current situation at work (lots of understaffing and back biting office politics) which is not really a dire situation as such but it's all I have to refer to really. Anyways my mantra is 'get your head down and keep working, there's better things coming, this will pass, look after you and ignore the background bullshit'. Which I suppose is along the lines of 'don't make things worse!!'

[justalitnerdxx]

Like, I'm not confronting the situation as such. I will try to maintain civil and helpful relationships with everyone and hope that they'll 'come to their senses'. Which I suppose sounds ultra passive. I have mentioned in team meetings that I believe if we all knuckle down and work together and try our best, that working circumstances can get better..but I have yet to speak up and accuse or challenge specific memebers of the team who are adding to the toxic nature and causing the disharmony

[Bertrand]

its okay to be ultra passive

[justalitnerdxx]

@Bertrand I'm guessing from my own reasoning that I'm not Se valuing xD hehe the truth comes out

[Bertrand]

yeah probably

[justalitnerdxx]

yeah probably

I think part of it is I don't want to devalue any function cause it'd offend the people who are good at and value them *facepalm*

but within myself I know I am far more Si-y than Se-y, so I suppose that means I do 'value' Si over Se though I'm hesitant to say for certain where my alligances lie

[justalitnerdxx]

Lol as if I think if I conclude I'm Si valuing and that Se isn't me or what I see as good, that all the Se egos will manifest in my living room and torture pummel the living daylights out of me *hides*

[Bertrand]

its ok just because you're not Se doesn't mean you're somehow denigrating all Se users everywhere by not preferring it

that's actually really funny, lol but theres also 3 more functions you're also leaving out in the cold people can get mad about

uh not to stress you out or anything

[justalitnerdxx]

I know 0-o the pressure is too much! *implodes* typology problems

[justalitnerdxx]

I know 0-o the pressure is too much! *implodes* typology problems. How to be authentic yet not offend anyone

'um I'm sorry but I'm not a Se ego or valuer. Please don't kill me...'


Se quadra member: *kill mode activated* don't worry, we'll make sure you live long enough to regret your Se devaluing ways

i know this is a highly unlikely scenario yet it's all I keep thinking of 0_o

[Bertrand]

that's actually a kind of scary accurate representation of Se revenge fantasy

[Muddy]

Si valuing if ur boring/lame/weird, Se valuing if ur an asshole/criminal/scumbag.

[squark]

Si valuing if ur boring/lame/weird, Se valuing if ur an asshole/criminal/scumbag.

What if you're a boring asshole, a lame scumbag and a weird criminal?

[Muddy]

What if you're a boring asshole, a lame scumbag and a weird criminal?

Then u fail at life.

[squark]

Then u fail at life.

Oh dear.

[air]

how about details, which IE it relates to? All kinds of details. Like details of surroundings (some people easily get lost), pay attention to details of work, pay attention to people's facial expression, pay attention to word choice, observation, details of logic, details of ethics? Si or Se?

[Hope]

If you are calm, lazy and obsessed with sensorial stuff then Si.
If you like to boss around ppl then Se.
If you like to be bossed around and have detailed instructions then Se PoLR.
If you are evil or stressed then Si PoLR.

[wacey]

how about details, which IE it relates to? All kinds of details. Like details of surroundings (some people easily get lost), pay attention to details of work, pay attention to people's facial expression, pay attention to word choice, observation, details of logic, details of ethics? Si or Se?

A number of IEs cover those details you mentioned.

[justalitnerdxx]

If you are calm, lazy and obsessed with sensorial stuff then Si.
If you like to boss around ppl then Se.
If you like to be bossed around and have detailed instructions then Se PoLR.
If you are evil or stressed then Si PoLR.

I don't enjoy being bossed around, but I guess naturally defer to others' will and wishes, and do like detailed instructions :3

[justalitnerdxx]

Let me preface this by saying this just my own observation and not based on anything in articles. It also pertains most to Si/Se in Leading, Creative or Mobilizing.

Si
Appreciation for what is "natural" looking.
Make relaxing a priority
Tend to see the value in daily body care (lotions, scrubs, sauna trips)
Picky, sensitive about: decor, perfumes, diet, anything that affects their internal state
Do not like loud or stressful environments (i.e. clubs, smokey bars)
Physical comfort is important
Will provide physical care to those they love and will appreciate care given to them (i.e. cooking for one another)
Will not physically stress the body unless very necessary
Gentle in their approach to love and appreciate gentleness in others
Try to maintain an internal homeostasis. Keep their mood and others calm
Enjoy harmony in their relationships and their internal state
Safety and peace are high values
Enjoy cozy spaces
High value on good food, gourmet snacks and new food experiences
Do not like to be pressured
Highly value aesthetics, symmetry, good furniture (SLI, ESE, SEI especially)
Naturally more maternal/paternal in friendships and relationships
Excellent memory or "database" of physical and sensory experiences
Can easily tell the physical state, comfort, mood and health of others
Soft appearance and voice (expect LSE can be loud, and ESE can be emotional loud)

Se
Have the endurance to follow through with difficult situations and challenges
Preference for "pushing" themselves physically (at the gym, competitive sports)
Can endure physical hardships easily and enjoy them (long hiking trips, camping in the winter etc. etc.)
Enjoy more risk taking activities
View "caretaking" (cooking) for the ones they love as not as important or useful in a relationship
Enjoy a challenge in a relationship
Can be playfully rough with loved ones
Can be quite loud and boisterous (LSI, ESI at home on occasion)
Not bothered by loud experiences and environments (clubs, bars, adventurous/slightly risky motorcycle or ATV rides)
Not afraid of negative emotions- can express them and tolerate them
Do not care if they feel at peace internally (may not apply to ESI, SEE)
Will not try to preserve a calm atmosphere if "pissed off"
Confident in their physical desires (may not apply to EIE)
Enjoy leading in many cases and in their careers many enjoy leadership roles
Appreciate others who work hard and have high expectations for others work tolerance
"Work Hard, Play Hard" mentality
Not afraid to pressure to be pressured- can handle it
Look more rugged/athletic (esp. true in SLE, LSI, SEE they can be very athletic looking). EIE is more delicate looking.
Strong emotionally

I do value my lotions and potions over loud places (shudders at how loud the motorbike racing was the other night). And it's my dream to be cooked for, I do really appreciate it. Se doms, as portrayed here, I do admire them but I sense that their way of being and preferences are very opposite from who I am :0

[air]

A number of IEs cover those details you mentioned.

Maybe. But all the phenomenon should be deconstructed to the smallest aspects, so that each one of them can be related to exactly one IE.

[wacey]

Maybe. But all the phenomenon should be deconstructed to the smallest aspects, so that each one of them can be related to exactly one IE.

Sure give it a go.

[Chae]

Let me preface this by saying this just my own observation and not based on anything in articles. It also pertains most to Si/Se in Leading, Creative or Mobilizing.

Si
Appreciation for what is "natural" looking.
Make relaxing a priority
Tend to see the value in daily body care (lotions, scrubs, sauna trips)
Picky, sensitive about: decor, perfumes, diet, anything that affects their internal state
Do not like loud or stressful environments (i.e. clubs, smokey bars)
Physical comfort is important
Will provide physical care to those they love and will appreciate care given to them (i.e. cooking for one another)
Will not physically stress the body unless very necessary
Gentle in their approach to love and appreciate gentleness in others
Try to maintain an internal homeostasis. Keep their mood and others calm
Enjoy harmony in their relationships and their internal state
Safety and peace are high values
Enjoy cozy spaces
High value on good food, gourmet snacks and new food experiences
Do not like to be pressured
Highly value aesthetics, symmetry, good furniture (SLI, ESE, SEI especially)
Naturally more maternal/paternal in friendships and relationships
Excellent memory or "database" of physical and sensory experiences
Can easily tell the physical state, comfort, mood and health of others
Soft appearance and voice (expect LSE can be loud, and ESE can be emotional loud)

Ohhhhhhh
I love your observations.

... gourmet snacks? I must say I'm intrigued. Time to switch on the Ne to lure out more hidden cozy information. I'm too curious





Contribution to the thread question: As with the video - I look at what type of intuition is valued in return. No without somewhere, vice versa for and .

[justalitnerdxx]

Ni vs Ne wise ive been told I display more Ni than Ne. Of the two, I've kinda though I mentally use Ni more than Ne, though love Ne doms ideas and their loopy imaginations

[justalitnerdxx]

With Si, I like being in relaxing tranquil places and finding inner calm and acceptance, yet I find that those states evade me a lot. I'm quite internally tense, and yes while I do tend to lie around watching tv or playing music, I never relax as such or 'smell the coffee beans', I feel like I should be out on an adventure or feeling much more harmonious and happy than I am. I do enjoy relaxing holidays aka around the pool, but I do get so bored too because while I have no energy and I'm recouperatig some, I feel like I need something new and profound to encounter to truly take the trip to lifetime experience from regularl lazy beach hols

[justalitnerdxx]

I can see sort of cases for both Se/Ni valuing and Si/Ne valuing but of the two, I get more feedback that I'm from a Si quadra definitely so there's that

[Pole]

Let me preface this by saying this just my own observation and not based on anything in articles. It also pertains most to Si/Se in Leading, Creative or Mobilizing.

Si
Appreciation for what is "natural" looking.
Make relaxing a priority
Tend to see the value in daily body care (lotions, scrubs, sauna trips)
Picky, sensitive about: decor, perfumes, diet, anything that affects their internal state
Do not like loud or stressful environments (i.e. clubs, smokey bars)
Physical comfort is important
Will provide physical care to those they love and will appreciate care given to them (i.e. cooking for one another)
Will not physically stress the body unless very necessary
Gentle in their approach to love and appreciate gentleness in others
Try to maintain an internal homeostasis. Keep their mood and others calm
Enjoy harmony in their relationships and their internal state
Safety and peace are high values
Enjoy cozy spaces
High value on good food, gourmet snacks and new food experiences
Do not like to be pressured
Highly value aesthetics, symmetry, good furniture (SLI, ESE, SEI especially)
Naturally more maternal/paternal in friendships and relationships
Excellent memory or "database" of physical and sensory experiences
Can easily tell the physical state, comfort, mood and health of others
Soft appearance and voice (expect LSE can be loud, and ESE can be emotional loud)

Se
Have the endurance to follow through with difficult situations and challenges
Preference for "pushing" themselves physically (at the gym, competitive sports)
Can endure physical hardships easily and enjoy them (long hiking trips, camping in the winter etc. etc.)
Enjoy more risk taking activities
View "caretaking" (cooking) for the ones they love as not as important or useful in a relationship
Enjoy a challenge in a relationship
Can be playfully rough with loved ones
Can be quite loud and boisterous (LSI, ESI at home on occasion)
Not bothered by loud experiences and environments (clubs, bars, adventurous/slightly risky motorcycle or ATV rides)
Not afraid of negative emotions- can express them and tolerate them
Do not care if they feel at peace internally (may not apply to ESI, SEE)
Will not try to preserve a calm atmosphere if "pissed off"
Confident in their physical desires (may not apply to EIE)
Enjoy leading in many cases and in their careers many enjoy leadership roles
Appreciate others who work hard and have high expectations for others work tolerance
"Work Hard, Play Hard" mentality
Not afraid to pressure to be pressured- can handle it
Look more rugged/athletic (esp. true in SLE, LSI, SEE they can be very athletic looking). EIE is more delicate looking.
Strong emotionally

All of these from both lists apply to me. I am a super sensor.

[PrettySavage]

All of these from both lists apply to me. I am a super sensor.

Ditto. I tried using this as a deal breaker between Beta ST and SLI, to no avail.

[Pole]

Ditto. I tried using this as a deal breaker between Beta ST and SLI, to no avail.

I'm SP first and that will give someone an Si flair even if they are Se.

[Saoirse]

I think Helen Fisher's four love types, each of which is defined by the predominance of a certain hormone, basically correspond to SPs, SJs, NFs, and NTs (note the capitalized P and J--so the MBTI version, like SLI = ISTJ = ISTp). SPs/Se egos correspond to dopamine, whereas SJs/Si egos correspond to serotonin. If you read a bit about each hormone, you can get an idea of what someone acting mainly in service of each of them would act like. Dopamine-driven people would need to experience new things a lot more often in their lives to feel satisfied, I think. Adventure is a keyword for them. Everyone likes traveling, but dopamine people would be able to travel for much longer, to more new places, to meet more new people, without getting tired and needing a break. Serotonin-driven people would like some more regularity, comfort, routine, stability, reliability.

I also think both Se and Si valuers could value or not care about good food. My LSE friend thinks gourmet food is dumb. I think the distinction is more like, an Se valuer will enjoy an extremely luxurious but fleeting experience more, whereas an Si valuer would prefer to have just something high quality (but not super primo $$$$$) in their daily lives. So an Se valuer might shell out money for a Michelin-starred restaurant, while an Si valuer might regularly buy organic produce. But, it's still just correlations and not definite... I have an LII friend who would definitely go for the Michelin-starred restaurant, and she's even sp/sx...

[Number 9 large]

This has probably been discussed and solved on here before, so I am sorry if I've repeated a previous topic...but...how does one tell if they are Si or Se valuing? Objectively I can see the merits of both functions yet I know I am definitely weak in Se and better at Si. I'm more a passive person who not so much indulges, but becomes uptight easily and needs to make a conscious effort to unwind and iron out any bodily aches. I do tend to overindulge in comfort eating as a form of stress relief, and prefer harmony to conflict and battles of wills. Though I do admire those who are able to push forward and succeed their goals. I probably have Si and Se down totally wrong so I'm sorry if I'm wrong. As always, any ideas and input is welcome :3

Si values comfort over goals. Se is the other way around

[Saoirse]

Si values comfort over goals. Se is the other way around

This seems less the case for Si valuers with self-pres last--or maybe in particular low-dimensional Si valuers with self-pres last in instincts. My EII sx/so friend and I (EII so/sx) take on a lot of discomfort for our goals. I actually find it annoying when someone over-prioritizes their comfort at the expense of things that I view as more important like bonding experiences.

Se
...
Can be playfully rough with loved ones
...
Not afraid to pressure to be pressured- can handle it
...

I strongly associate these with Se as well. Se involves a lot more sass, especially when closer. Se says "I hate you, you idiot" with a straight face or "you look nice today" with over-the-top sarcasm. An EIE and LSI pair of friends I know does this all the time, and you can tell they feel closer to each other because they can do it to each other. Si valuers can still have a teasing/challenging tone, but it's a different vibe. It's less smooth, less of a natural state of being for us, more of something we bust out once in a while when the situation calls for it. It's less likely that we'll resort to it when we're stressed.

Ni vs Ne wise ive been told I display more Ni than Ne. Of the two, I've kinda though I mentally use Ni more than Ne, though love Ne doms ideas and their loopy imaginations

This makes sense for an EII still as our Ni is still 4D while our Ne is 3D. Gulenko's Model G defines EII as FiNi rather than FiNe.

[justalitnerdxx]

This makes sense for an EII still as our Ni is still 4D while our Ne is 3D. Gulenko's Model G defines EII as FiNi rather than FiNe.

oh thanks for clarifying that; makes sense to me too

[Bertrand]

a good way to look at Se v Si valuing is think in terms of Ni v Si. socionics is about information metabolism, which is about how information flows in and out from an individual's cognitive framework, or from the phenomenological standpoint, "the self." the idea is here you can tell between Ni and Si because they are subjective modes of introverted perception. but Si valuing sees everything flowing from a Si perspective (even if not in ego), which means they tend to see Ni "ideas" or "narratives" flowing from a primarily biological organism that is rooted in Si. in other words, they're the types most likely to "demystify" narratives in terms of them being products of "people-as-physical-states." Even when someone like IEE or EII tend to get ethical and intuitive it is rooted in the prior knowledge that narratives exist to serve people's well-being from a Si point of view.

Ni views the "Si-self" the "introverted sensations" their "own body" as something outside of themself. In other words to Ni valuers Si experience is an object of Ni, whereas to Si valuers Ni is an object of Si. If you believe there are ideas worth dying for and that that is not a tragedy but potentially a privilege, that is Ni. because what you're saying is the reverberations of your physical sacrifice could live on in time in a way "more real" than your "real" body. An Si type might sacrifice their life for another but its viewed as a more or less straightforward tragedy where they really did not "die to live" but simply "died"--the ethical implications are also subjective rooted in Fi or Fe, but the idea is here the base perception of from what flows from what is the fundamental domain of introverted perception

Schopenhauer (an Ni valuer) says:

That which knows all things and is known by none is the subject... it is the universal condition of all that appears, of all objects... [this is like when I said an object is anything experienced as an object] everyone finds himself as the subject... but his body is already object...

this is how someone who privileges the irrational perception [1] of Ni over the irrational perception Si views himself. in other words, the information flows first from the perspective of Ni and views the perceptions of Si as under that umbrella. For the Si viewer it is reversed, they view the irrational perceptual sensations of Si as primary, thus interpret ideas in the mouth of others as first flowing from that state. thus they look at ideology with a degree of concretion rooted in the needs of whoever espouses it, not as something detached and transcendent, thus it often has very little convincing power over them

[1] irrational perception is the unfiltered directly experienced perception of a thing, the most basic of which is pain, as far as I can tell. but in terms of Ni its your internal picture of reality, in Si its how you're feeling before how you decide to feel about how you're feeling, etc. judgement/perception in the ego has a complex relationship where they each inform eachother but dominant judgements label perceptions such that creative perception is the attempt to get judgements to "catch on", whereas with creative judgements they are judgements that are expressed in order to further the "vision" the P has. theyre really not that different in the sense that creative subtypes of either extroverts of introverts will start to look very similar, it just goes back to information metabolism and flow. this is why behavioral stereotypes often breakdown with complex creative personalities. stereotypes often only work to describe the most 1 dimensional base subtypes

Ni advice to Si types and Si advice to Ni types when it comes to "big ethical issues" seems condescending because it implies a differing take on fundamental reality that the other does not share but one which the speaker takes to be primary and presumes to lecture the other on the basis of. its why when ENFPs do their whole "contextualize all the viewpoints" moralizing it comes off as haughty and reductionist because its contextualizing them all implicitly as voices of competing Si's--which means the conclusions are going to flow from that and seem "dehumanizing" to an Ni type, and vice versa... An Ni type would seem to imply "blood is cheap" to Si humanitarians

the absolute best way to get wisdom from people and not just spark conflict is to try and view things from the point of view of their introverted perceptual preference: that is how you find the "nugget of truth" in everything

I realized this when I loved a SLI and she was an atheist and I realized it was a principled and noble stance, in light of her authentic perceptions. for the longest time atheism bothered me cause it seems like people worship Gods no matter what they say, but that is an Ni take on other peoples words and actions. in a certain sense I still believe that, except it redeemed her "God" to me as a different face of the same being and in that sense I believe we will see eachother in heaven. likewise there are "Christians" that we won't see in heaven, like Jesus said "depart from me, I never knew ye"

[Aylen]

Si valuing



Se valuing