ENFj jobs/careers/occupations: what do EIEs do for a living?

[Exodus]

My EIE sis-in-law is sort of a mathmetician. An accountant.

That...is not the same thing.

[GuavaDrunk]

Ik, though I attribute all of what you said to ESE. Caregiving suits the profession more than victim, esp because boundary enforcement - strong Se (not necessarily valued), keeping sb happy - Fe WITHOUT Ni because Ni brings the drama, insecurity, musing, third eye stuff, detached advice, mentorship, head in the clouds, being a sage. Beta is far too anti-establishment to dance obediently all year with a Chippendale outfit on, selling their body like a slave UNLESS! They are Sx/So and e7, e3, that range. In that case, mhm. Internal mechanisms as in, psychologically? Si sounds more like it, Si is knowing the internal mechanism of someone else.

I disagree with most of what you said, but will keep it short.

Internal mechanisms = psychology, neuroses, etc. in my head, yes, should probably have specified. Fe and Ni together *can* track long-term trends and structures in someone's internal world (psychology, way of seeing the world/metabolising events) very efficiently; they have the potential to tease out a dynamic sketch of someone's 'story' from the barest hints and hunches, to have the requisite social skills to use that understanding to put someone at ease or otherwise piss them off thoroughly, and if necessary to neatly rearrange their whole model of that person if new information comes in that undoes the previous conclusions.

Why do you think that EIE stereotypes include gurus and entertainers? Having a feel for the mood in the room, for how to influence it, this skillset can be converted fairly well to getting a feel for a single person in front of you. It can certainly be trickier, as they wouldn't be in a 'group animal' mindset and would need more specifically personal buttons pushed, but it's possible.

Of course other IE combinations can do that too (IEE is named the Psychologist, if nothing else), but to assume that Fe + Ni is necessarily a barrier to doing it is nonsense. Recall that Beta NFs are said to *manage* their duals when they get into an emotional tangle. Humans are easily driven by emotions (source: manipulation techniques everywhere), and skill and/or an inclination to work with these will put you in an advantageous position in any kind of service work. Alpha SFs do not have a monopoly on emotional management, even if they may be very good at it.

I would argue however that there's probably enough variety in the kinds of sex work available that ~*All Types Have A Chance*~.

And technically, isn't earning one's money illegally (in most places), despite the (official) condemnation of most (afaik) societies, pretty damned anti-establishment?

[golden]

It seems like the letters he wrote were to attract attention and create some kind of spectacle. Not necessarily EIE, I would also consider SEE or SLE.

I wondered if this was why, and it doesn't rule out EIE, but I'm not sure whether I think that EIEs want or need to get a lot of attention or make a scene more than other types do. Rather, I think they generally know how to. And it appears that some of us choose not to. But I think I lack objectivity on this point, because I see that even when I actively don't want attention, I'm not very talented at fading into the background.

[golden]

That...is not the same thing.

Definitely not the same.

@Eliza Thomason: Another one of my college jobs for a while was doing daily-charge bookkeeping for a friend's businesses, a lower-level task tied into accounting.

I actually have a math learning disability that was not diagnosed until much later. I struggle with math as it's usually taught--I can do it, but I tend to write the numerals down wrong, and I will imagine solutions that are sometimes correct yet have no way to tell you how I came up with them, and when I must do problems step-by-step, I'm incredibly slow, meaning that what a professor thinks is 3 hours of homework might literally take me 20 hours.

But when I finally got a chance to work with concepts, like probability theory, with the numbers much less important, I found I could think very rapidly through problems. I also kind of like statistics. What I don't want to do is compute numbers by hand--EVER.

In bookkeeping, I was handling a lot of fairly concrete things in a business context, using a computer and calculators, and there were in-built systems for double-checking all of my work; for example, I'd count and recount cash, or add and then subtract receipts, typically against totals generated by a computer system. There were always benchmarks in my mind for what the payables and receivables should have been, on any given day of the week, for a total week, and for a month.

So sometimes I also was playing detective. If something definitely didn't add up right, or if the figures seemed off intuitively, I'd have to figure out where the problem lay, track down missing pieces of information, perhaps discover that a particular employee didn't understand a task, etc.

Point being, this was really a business-information and business-oversight job. The owner needed all of this financial information to make decisions about how to run her business. Was she ordering too much of a particular product? Did she staff too heavily on Tuesdays? Was there a mismatch between what she purchased and what was sold, meaning unaccounted-for waste? These kinds of issues all meant the difference between profit and loss. The math itself was not complex.

My friend was ILE, by the way, and did have a master's degree in math. So I'll make one Socionics connection; she set up clear, neat systems that I found easy to work with and she framed it all as basic business problem-solving and didn't present it as "math." Unlike some people I've worked with, she didn't invent dumb procedures seemingly for the sake of having them. The amount of procedural detail was always appropriate to the nature of the goal, light and transparent. This may have been a Ti take on the work, although I'd leave it to Ti folks to say whether that's an accurate conclusion on my part.

[golden]

I just want to say re sex work in all its iterations, I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone doing that work or to generalize about who does it and what it's like. My statements had to do with the realities of particular people in a specific city at a specific time. I would have considered my friend and neighbor's work choices none of my business except that they made it my business to an extent by actively trying to persuade me to do that work, too, and exposing me to the social spillover of their work.

[FDG]

Listing the EIEs I know:

- labor economist for the swedish government
- gym instructor (previously computer programmer)
- hr consultant
- area manager for eastern europe
- movie teather owner + film director for local movies(this one seems to be the most realized/happy)

[Beautiful sky]

Teacher
Musician
Actor
Seamstress
YouTube video artists
Homemaker
I think that they can be waitresses
Receptionist


Idk they need to be around people; they are fast paced unlike me so they also need to have fun. They just need a ton of money and an entourage

[Delilah]

Other than fascist dictator, actor, serial killer, and guru, what are some EIE careers?

Some EIEs I know irl do these things . . .

* reporter
* programmer
* songwriter

What else is there?

acting had always been on one of those lists at least i've seen it frequently enough to be convinced.

[nyessss]

Can someone explain how EIEs are good programmers with 1D Ti?

[Beautiful sky]

Can someone explain how EIEs are good programmers with 1D Ti?

lol who is a programmer ENFj?

ENFj are among leading mathematicians; it turns out that the functions are not related to certain memory

[Singu]

Can someone explain how EIEs are good programmers with 1D Ti?

According to Gulenko, EIEs being part of the "Dialectical-Algorithmic Cognition" group are the best programmers:

Two of its representatives—EIE and ILI—are usually recognized in society as the most intellectual types. They form the backbone of intellectual elites, expert clubs, esoteric groups, etc. They are the best computer programmers, knowing better than other types how to work with moving structures—algorithms. Algorithmic diagrams consist of blocks and arrows showing the order of transitions, branches, and loop cycles. The crux of a program is its dynamic structure—pointers, rather than blocks. The formula "if-then-else" is, in essence, the core of any algorithm.

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...hmic_Cognition

Obviously like any other types, the EIE would have to have talent in programming.

[epheme]

The EIEs I know:

Male 1: Program Manager at an Environmental Consulting Firm (though his degree is in Spanish/French literature)
Male 2: Part time rock-star/Part time waiter
Female 1: English literature professor
Female 2: Has a degree in finance, worked in this field for 1-2 years, found it unsatisfactory. Following that went to drama school to study acting. Struggled as an actor for a bit. Is currently going back to school to study filmmaking.

[Exodus]

Can someone explain how EIEs are good programmers with 1D Ti?

Because Gulenko is full of it?

They do have creative Ni and role Te so they can be decent at it, but they aren't exactly the archetype of a genius programmer or something.

[ScarlettLux]

i am an occupational therapist. I essentially enable activities of daily living for someone that has undergone any type of injury/illness - it's rehabilitation, similar to physiotherapy but much more broad and focused on function rather than symptoms of pain/strength, etc. I work with diverse populations from those with concussion to orthopaedic fractures, to my favourite - mental health conditions and chronic pain.

I have always known I wanted to be in a helping profession. My primary love is still mental health and especially addictions (which I am hoping to specialize in after getting my feet wet in the job I'm in now).

I agree that I'm very good with being in tune with the natural internal mechanisms and emotions within others... I absolutely love motivating others to see the best in themselves, be more confident, utilize their strengths, and believe in themselves. It's interesting because I never related to being a "Mentor" like EIE has been painted to be. However, when I really think about it, I suppose this is becoming more and more true.

All I know is that the heart of it, I want to display compassion and assist those struggling with any type of situation. I have personal ties to mental health and addictions because I feel I empathize very well with wanting an escape from reality... so few people understand that addiction is literally a result of a lack of connection to others (trauma, abuse, etc). Anyway, this has gone on a tangent lol.

Other than that, I've always been interested in music but was never serious about it.. film/creative stuff yes... but more realistically, I like criminal justice/legal system as well.

[FDG]

Because Gulenko is full of it?

They do have creative Ni and role Te so they can be decent at it, but they aren't exactly the archetype of a genius programmer or something.

They can motivate code to write himself

[wacey]

Top of Page 2, EIE Careers thread----> conversation of serial killers.

Lol.

[The Reality Denialist]

My friend was ILE, by the way, and did have a master's degree in math. So I'll make one Socionics connection; she set up clear, neat systems that I found easy to work with and she framed it all as basic business problem-solving and didn't present it as "math." Unlike some people I've worked with, she didn't invent dumb procedures seemingly for the sake of having them. The amount of procedural detail was always appropriate to the nature of the goal, light and transparent. This may have been a Ti take on the work, although I'd leave it to Ti folks to say whether that's an accurate conclusion on my part.

Interesting starting point. I do have good amount of math credits to teach it in high school level (over here it is basic calculus like derivatives, integrals etc). I liked more methods and modelling (physical sciences). Obviously you need to have an interest after certain point when you already knew the end of the story (tedious lower and upper sums in 3D -- but maybe someday I'll look further into it and there are of course other interesting areas). I lost it. I liked to work with data by developing methods in chemistry lab running expensive equipment instead of pen and paper.
I can see how could enjoy building a very throughout consistent basis from ground up. I'm too disperse.

[SpreeFirit]

I have been a waitress before. My LSI manager always suggested that the reason I was so good was solely because of my personality, lmao. I hate having to be consisently forceful during the "in-season" times of the year. He, on the other hand has had no problems with that. Since, it is in his nature. You have to be able to deal with some very pushy guests/servers. I can do it, but it exhausts me, and most times I want to run away to my dream world. Lol. He takes note of that in me. He has mentioned that it is not the occupation for me, and that I need to be in an environment where I can be free to dream and play and be..well, free. which is true. So any occupation in which I can move and play freely is the occupation for me. So, working in the arts it is!

[golden]

I've decided to stop being EIE so I can do something else.

[Chae]

I've decided to stop being EIE so I can do something else.

1000% #legit

Having a sociotype itself is already one hell of a job.