trying to emulate duals/charisma or "star quality"

[Ms. Kensington]

My theory is that anyone can become famous by simply forcing ourselves to use our dual-seeking function as more as our dominant functions. How this works exactly is still deceptively mysterious (to me anyway), since it seems impossible to try and be something you naturally lack in and look for in others, but it seems to create that star-like status. I don't think it discounts the theory, more like .... bends it for social power & money. I think deep down he would much rather other people use than himself, that's why if you look closely at his personal life, his relationships seem to be in shambles for a lot of those reasons.

this about Marilyn Manson. I don't think his girlfriends are Se types but thread is not about him

it is about this idea that someone acting from a different function than one in their ego, or in some aspect related to it, that one becomes charismatic or has "star quality". I think it might have been tcaud who said it was acting as their conflictor type ? for example INFj-ESTp ?

I am wondering if anyone has read anything similar and can help flesh out BnD's post.

I mean it makes sense that doing something different than what is expected of a function or a field would be charismatic or at the least, attention grabbing.

[Exodus]

I think the dual-seeking function is probably the easiest to excel in professionally, out of all the weak functions. But people who do so are going to be pretty messed up.

On another note, I find that when I'm using Ti really intensely it creates Fe byproducts - getting super-passionate about whatever I'm talking about, for instance. I think other leading functions might be like this; like meditating on the future might create a strong sense of resolve, or a stunning realization might create a sense of unity with the universe.

[dbmmama]

On another note, I find that when I'm using Ti really intensely it creates Fe byproducts - getting super-passionate about whatever I'm talking about, for instance. I think other leading functions might be like this; like meditating on the future might create a strong sense of resolve, or a stunning realization might create a sense of unity with the universe.

i like this idea. could this be why it would seem someone was a certain type when the byproduct is what others are observing?

[Exodus]

i like this idea. could this be why it would seem someone was a certain type when the byproduct is what others are observing?

Well, I think it only really happens on rare occasions, when someone is very into the leading function, and it would never be more noticeable than the leading function except in a kind of superficial way.

[tcaudilllg]

this about Marilyn Manson. I don't think his girlfriends are Se types but thread is not about him

it is about this idea that someone acting from a different function than one in their ego, or in some aspect related to it, that one becomes charismatic or has "star quality". I think it might have been tcaud who said it was acting as their conflictor type ? for example INFj-ESTp ?

I am wondering if anyone has read anything similar and can help flesh out BnD's post.

I mean it makes sense that doing something different than what is expected of a function or a field would be charismatic or at the least, attention grabbing.

I was actually mistaken in correlating the two (three?) traits to each other. For example, Britney Spears is very charismatic, but she doesn't seem to be using her dual-seeking functions any more than normal. (She's been typed as an ESFj, hasn't she?)

The host of Mind Freak, Chris Angel, isn't extremely charismatic (although he has something of a cult following), but he is definitely oriented toward his dual-seeking functions, asking particularly which things people expect to be associated with which others, and then counfounding their expectations. Jung was another who wasn't extremely charismatic, but had a definite aura of "mysterium conjunctionus" about him, as was shown when he produced a scarab remarkably like the scarab in his patient's dream.

[Darkstar]

I think that if someone try to act the opposite way, ESTp-INFj like someone said before. There will be so mixed signals, you cant figure that person out. They seem deep, confusing and yet fascinating.

[tcaudilllg]

this about Marilyn Manson. I don't think his girlfriends are Se types but thread is not about him

it is about this idea that someone acting from a different function than one in their ego, or in some aspect related to it, that one becomes charismatic or has "star quality". I think it might have been tcaud who said it was acting as their conflictor type ? for example INFj-ESTp ?

I am wondering if anyone has read anything similar and can help flesh out BnD's post.

I mean it makes sense that doing something different than what is expected of a function or a field would be charismatic or at the least, attention grabbing.

I was actually mistaken in correlating the two (three?) traits to each other. For example, Britney Spears is very charismatic, but she doesn't seem to be using her dual-seeking functions any more than normal. (She's been typed as an ESFj, hasn't she?)

The host of Mind Freak, Chris Angel, isn't extremely charismatic (although he has something of a cult following), but he is definitely oriented toward his dual-seeking functions, asking particularly which things people expect to be associated with which others, and then counfounding their expectations. Jung was another who wasn't extremely charismatic, but had a definite aura of "mysterium conjunctionus" about him, as was shown when he produced a scarab remarkably like the scarab in his patient's dream.

[tcaudilllg]

I think that if someone try to act the opposite way, ESTp-INFj like someone said before. There will be so mixed signals, you cant figure that person out. They seem deep, confusing and yet fascinating.

ESTp-INFj... everywhere around them are people making choices, which in turn constellate the potential of the reality around them -- those choices they didn't make. That a person did not make the choice another person liked, sets the other into opposition against their motivations. "They made that stupid choice because their motives were impure...." Oh wait, that was the pathological option, (-Fi+Ne) so nevermind.

The healthy perspective is the reverse: -Ne (the way things are) presents challenging choices to +Ne. The choices made indicate the motivations (+Fi) of the person, who is then faced with whether or not people like them for who they are. (-Fi) ...I'll get back to you on how the ESTp figures into it.

Charisma is a trait of people whom balance caution and introspection with bold vision. It just so happens our genes relate to these people in such manner as to heighten our consciousness in their presence. The purpose of this is to identify our leaders, our natural born princes and kings. (the Greeks described the trait as having been born from the gods; see Helen of Troy). Of course, the king may not want entirely to be a king deep inside, and this is where you got the patronage of the arts and the adventurer kings of the Middle Ages. (though it is of course a classical failing of the royal lineage that the heir to the throne might not necessarily have this trait). I'm sure you've met people I'm talking about before, including Spears of course, Obama, and many other celebrities besides. It is the trait of charisma, proper.

[Not A Communist Shill]

On another note, I find that when I'm using Ti really intensely it creates Fe byproducts - getting super-passionate about whatever I'm talking about, for instance. I think other leading functions might be like this; like meditating on the future might create a strong sense of resolve, or a stunning realization might create a sense of unity with the universe.

Yes, I think you're right about this.