Depending on the situation, I could really be either way. Sometimes I hardheadedly strive for the top and other times I can settle very easily. I think it really depends on the type of situation and influential circumstances.
Depending on the situation, I could really be either way. Sometimes I hardheadedly strive for the top and other times I can settle very easily. I think it really depends on the type of situation and influential circumstances.
Last edited by Park; 10-13-2009 at 01:03 PM.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
Second is worse than last. Last means you must have done something wrong, something went awry; there's still the chance that you are actually the best. Second means you did your best and still failed.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
How 'bout second in command of a sinking ship.
These are PRECISELY my sentiments.Sometimes, if I sense that I'm going to come second, I'll fuck up on purpose. I've always felt a bit ashamed and cowardly about this, especially in this country (Australia) that glorifies the underdog and being a "trier". Is this part of what makes Australia a delta country?
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
Second in command is different - it's a responsibility, not a level of success.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
You guys are being too hard on yourselves if you think that way, imo.
What a riduculous question, supposing first prize was £2MILLION, and 2nd prize was £1MILLION.
Only insane person (of any type) would agree with the statement.
I think it's more a question of how you distribute intangible prizes when there are no tangible rewards.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Ah, OK, although I don't really understand the question then ... perhaps introverts would prefer to finish second, as it's still an achievement but they don't have to handle as much of the limelight as they would if finishing first.
Exactly. I agree 100%. Only in the case the second prize was worth less money than the last I would consider that statement to be exact (tautologically). Since it's usually not so, then I would consider batshit crazy anybody agreeing with that sentiment.
I also think that people that feel this way have never tried individual sports at a good level. You should, you'd understand that being second is a often a great achievment, and that the ordering in tge first 5 positions is - in a majority of cases - due to luck and-or casual circumstances.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
.
Awww, C-mon, let me have that one.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
I recall something I said in a multiplayer game when someone invited me to a more powerful clan... "I'd rather be a king among children than a child among kings."
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
I was in the basketball team at what you guys would call high school. One season we kicked ass quite a bit beating pretty much anyone in our age group. And in the last tournament of the season we kicked ass like we typically did, we were quite convince we had won the tournament by the time we reached the semi-finals. We then reached the finals and had the most difficult game we've ever had against a team that was just a fraction better than us, and we barely lost.
I usually take these kinds of things in my stride, I've lost games numerous amounts of times, but it really bothered me for some reason. I actually genuinely felt down for about a month, I was surprised. I wasn't friends with anyone on the team and I spent most of my time away from them if I could, so I don't think it was the result of me mirroring team mates (who happened to be a little down too).
So, yeah I agree with this statement in some contexts.
I find this very alien and don't understand how this could be true or correct. Second means second, it does not imply you did best. You can do better next time, you can do better after 100 more tries and oh god know maybe 101 time you will be the first. I don't like loosing, but I would never feel better being last than being second. Unless I don't care whatsoever and just messing around, then I would be indifferent at any case.
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This reminds me of something I read a long time ago about how in the Olympics, the silver medalists are almost always less satisfied w their lot than the bronze medalists are with theirs.
Well bronze medalist finished the competition with a win, so it makes sense in such context, Bronze is hardly last though.
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Oh no, I mean I understand why someone would feel that way; I just thought it was interesting.Well bronze medalist finished the competition with a win, so it makes sense in such context, Bronze is hardly last though
I wonder if the silver medalist would be more satisfied than all the non-medalist people who won nothing... surely he would be. Although, given the responses here, maybe not....
I think this has to do with losing something that you thought you had. If you deliberately throw the race and come in last, at least you chose your lot... you don't lose something that was "yours." That feels better, even though it isn't better in any practical way.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
I've lost games where I thought we were going to win before hand and felt fine about whole thing. I think the idea that it was "the final" played a part too.
btw, I don't in theory have anything against being in second place.
Yeah, I was covering Gilly's comment in my response as well.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
I laugh at the people who are approaching this from a practical standpoint. It's fucking OBVIOUS that finishing second is better, logically speaking. How much of a retard do you have to be to NOT see that as the IMPLICIT ASSUMPTION of the whole question? Can you not see that there is also a subjective side to it that is the OBVIOUS aim of this thread? How fucking retarded would we have to be to need to hear "WELL DUH SECOND IS BETTER THAN LAST! HUHUHUUHUHHU YOU'RE JUST BEING SILLY." Seriously, who the fuck is dumb enough to need to hear that? Did you just feel like posting in this thread for the sake of tautological masturbation? Jesus fucking christ, keep your thick-headed bullshit where it belongs.
I stand by my original statement. Finishing second is acknowledging defeat in the face of having done everything in your power; if you did that well, you MUST have tried. But if you finish last, then OBVIOUSLY you can do better; there is still hope, still time, still room for growth and improvement. The bottom line is, you're either on top or on bottom, and if you bust your ass and still wind up on bottom, well, you might as well have never tried. So don't bother trying until you know you can win.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I certainly agreed with this statement a lot of the time when I was younger. I think the reasoning was "I'm either going to effortless win this, or I'm going to effortlessly act like I never cared to begin with!".
In hindsight, there were probably better ways of presenting my wares, though I haven't discovered them yet.
I still don't understand why would finishing second imply you wouldn't be able to do better or that you gave it all. There is just too many reasons why it wouldn't be so. You might start slow and it was too late to catch up, you might had bad luck with something, god knows. Also it could be that you gave it all and finished last, cos you suck. I still disagree with your statement, be it from a logical point of view or from subjective, personal point of view.
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I agree that second place feels worse than nothing, but I think that pain is nessicary, I think people naturally want to try and protect themselves by choosing nothing rather than going for it and failing, but I think its in people best interest to have a healthy share of failures because they ultimately strengthen you. Its better to have spirit and fail than remain defeated by your own fear of how it feels to fail imo.
I don't think second means you tried your all and failed, it means your missing a small edge between first and second place, you only need to find that edge that your missing in your game and once you incorporate it you have what seperates first from second.
Applying yourself doesn't work like you have a fixed amount of "What you got" and once thats spent your screwed. "What you got" is a matter of talent and training. Talent is the thing you naturally have inside you and training is what shapes that. Talent remains fixed, but through training you'll learn to use it better. If a person fails they are missing an element to their technique, that they must find and incorporate into themselves through training.
Last edited by male; 10-13-2009 at 08:21 PM.
This is a load of crock. You finish second because that day you were in the condition (psychological-physical-whatever) to finish second. Next round you could be 1st, or last, or whatever. Eddie Mercx didn't win all of his races. There is no need for a deep psychological inspection of something so simple.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Even given the implication of asking the question in the first place, it wouldn't make sense to justify the statement by ignoring practical considerations; the statement is correct if and only if the emotional considerations outweigh the practical considerations. As ollobollo mentioned, catering to the emotional side in this case creates other problems - and as the other posts in this thread have hinted, consciously acknowledging the practical side can alleviate the emotional difficulties of finishing second.
Finally, we subjectively prefer the logical interpretation, so why should we refrain from giving our opinions?
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
I agree
...but I what Gilly is saying is that sometimes it feels worse to get second than to fail completely or not try at all.
However even if that is true I still think its bull to say that second place is some fixed evaluation of your performance.
I think the key issue of believing in that statement is that your outlook on competition, and maybe life in general, is that you are "measured" as a person by how you rank compared to others. Reaching 2nd place is then not as good as being 1st, not only in the competition, but in general as well. You just have to be the best. It's somehow related to your self-worth. I might be off the mark for this case, but I think the reason is along these lines.
I tended to agree almost exactly with everything Gilly said. I don't know his motivations though. Mine are sort of like this.
It seems that people are like, "I get fulfillment from this, blah blah" like their own interests, activity, whatever..and it's for them, solely for them? I don't understand that at all. It feels like there's a person, people, watching, all the time, everywhere, 24/7. I can never turn off my self awareness. Not that I don't try to break free of that or whatever, be "in the moment", but it always feels like jumping around in a cage, or running in place. I've tried to find the person behind the mask, behind the acquiescence, behind the comparisons..I've tried to find the joy in life behind them. And there's nothing, it's just empty. Pure sheer greyness overlaid on black velvet darkness. I've always thought something was wrong with me because of that. Without embellishments there's nothing raw, nothing is felt, I can't say I'm still a awesome sports star or music player or whatever shit, can't say I'm somewhat smart, or attractive, or have the ability to make decent choices because hey I'm not dead yet...I guess people can say "you're too hard on yourself" if it suits them but if you lose that and tell yourself you're ok, there's nothing to cover the apathy and essential pitiful crawling deadness. I've never really been able to see what exists beyond comparisons in myself, I can see it in others, and it's subjectively beautiful, the way my friend's green eyes crinkle with her little elfish smile, the way a bass voice rumbles, the way a cat looks at you, a mournful darkness in the eyes of a person who has discarded hope for themselves and yet still irrevocably craves it, a familiar smell..I don't know how to tell people these things, or say that they matter..I don't know how to communicate what the senses communicate..to say that if I wasn't really dead that they would matter? That I can't do anything except hang on to you and breathe in and out...the constant comprise between thinking and breathing. That it's not a holographic comparison this time, for once, but just the way you're stepping around in the place where my heart was with subjective beauty and value..it makes me want to cry, because I want someone to see that in me, and MAKE me believe it..and not feel another night alone, with the silver metal, second helpings, because the one I want is pining over the one they can't have, and it's all too fucking confusing sometimes, and too much to wade through every time circumstantial bullshit pulls this up, so yeah, I'd rather not try at all.
This statement is rediculous. Second place is the best! It's a win without the snootiness.
I think second place is great! It shows good effort, and I'd be proud of myself to come in second. Unless there were only two people competing, maybe.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Lol; at least you finished.
Spelling correction.It's "ridicule-ous."
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Second place in a one-person race.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
lolSecond place in a one-person race.
Sounds limiting and cowardly to me.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I lol'dSecond place in a one-person race.
I can follow what your saying except for a certain number of parts which I bolded, could you please clarify those?
Most of the time, I'm happy with second place.
Interviewing for jobs is an exception. Usually, the company can only hire one candidate, so if you're the second best there is no consolation prize. Either you get the job or you don't. One time I was disappointed in getting turned down for a job I wanted really badly. I called the head of the hiring committee to request feedback on what I could do better in case there was another opening in the future. He told me I was their second choice and that my interview was great except he thought I was a bit too uptight in the interview. I guess he was trying to make me feel better but it made me feel worse because I kept thinking that if only I came across as less uptight I might have had that job.
On the other hand, if I wasn't among the top few candidates, I would be more likely to think that I simply wasn't the right fit for the position or it just wasn't meant to be.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
That sounds quite similar to Satan's sentiment in Paradise Lost: "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven."
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
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