Do you believe in God?

[Not A Communist Shill]

Me thinks your beef is more with free-will and less with God.

And what I am going to do about it?

[Jeremy8419]

If Anne Frank did not accept Christ as her Saviour, does that mean she will burn in hell for eternity?What if someone found the god of the Old Testament (who endorsed genocide, rape, and slavery), and the Jesus of the New Testament (who promoted the idea that the road to heaven was narrow and that most people who have ever lived would burn in hell for eternity for simply not following his awful religion) utterly abominable? Surely these are the very people who are worth saving?You clearly have a very warped sense of ethics.

But your ethics is Ti :x

[applejacks]

Not even the Nazis stooped so low as to burn Anne Frank.

You have a clearly biased opinion, as you're making assumptions even still.

Unless you were there at Anne's dying breath and knew what her heart believed, I don't think you can make an assumption of what God has or hasn't done with Anne.

[Jeremy8419]

And what I am going to do about it?

Manual. Labor.

[Not A Communist Shill]

You have a clearly biased opinion, as you're making assumptions even still.

Unless you were there at Anne's dying breath and knew what her heart believed, I don't think you can make an assumption of what God has or hasn't done with Anne.

But it would be safe to say that Jews in general don't accept Jesus as their Saviour? (apart from Messianic Jews).

[applejacks]

But it would be safe to say that Jews in general don't accept Jesus as their Saviour? (apart from Messianic Jews).

Anyone that doesn't accept Jesus is not going to the Father- jew or gentile.

But you do not know what Anne believed, nor any one else. The thief on the cross is the perfect example. What if in our last moments and our dying breath, we're given a chance or a vision? Do you know this for certainty? I don't, but I know of people on their deathbeds receiving such miracles of grace.

You don't know who is or isn't separated from God, nor will you (or I) until we're there. So let us at least not make assumptions.

And for the record, I completely understand why this all would upset you, and I do hope that you realize I have no ill intention or feelings towards you as a result of this discussion whatsoever.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Anyone that doesn't accept Jesus is not going to the Father- jew or gentile.

But you do not know what Anne believed, nor any one else. The thief on the cross is the perfect example. What if in our last moments and our dying breath, we're given a chance or a vision? Do you know this for certainty? I don't, but I know of people on their deathbeds receiving such miracles of grace.

If you want to just dislike God, then so be it. But you don't know who is or isn't separated from God, nor will you (or I) until we're there. So let us at least not make assumptions.

And for the record, I completely understand why this all would upset you, and I do hope that you realize I have no ill intention or feelings towards you as a result of this discussion whatsoever.

She identified as Jewish before she entered the concentration camp, and there is no evidence that any of the camp guards converted her to Christianity, so I think it is reasonably safe to say she died not being a Christian. I also think it is safe to say that millions of Jews were murdered and burnt by the Nazis without becoming Christians, only to now face the prospect of being burnt alive for eternity, according to the tenets of Christianity.

[Skepsis]

So beautiful. I relate to every word. Last night I rewatched "Secrets of the Universe" and I was wishing I could pass over the event horizon. I have a feeling I would still exist. Very synchy post here.



Religion is here to stay in one form or another for the foreseeable future and beyond I would imagine. If aliens landed tomorrow humans would worship them or go to war with them. Probably a combination of both. I would still be sitting here minding my own business unless they personally sought me out.



I would watch every broadcast from them but I would be cautious. I would neither worship or go to war. I kind of hope it continues to unfold in such a way that some awesome visitors from other galaxies find a way to visit since I won't be taking any trips into space ever. Too dark out there without an atmosphere. *is scared of pitch black*

ahaha, not I. I always thought it would be well worth my life just to travel through our own solar system and see the outer gas giants firsthand. As for intelligent alien life, once we overcome the communication barrier, just imagine what kind of conversations could take place and what we would learn before our planet is pillaged for resources and the few chosen kept alive or captured for research purposes.

As for religion, it is here to stay, for hundreds if not thousands of more years. It is the secularists and non-believers I fear for.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Manual. Labor.

I suppose it is preferable to an eternity in hell, or being assaulted by you.

[SongOfSapphire]

Let's not question people's types in this thread, please, @Maritsa and @Jeremy8419. It's moving toward an ad hominem response and away from rational debate of ideas...and this is a fairly interesting exchange.

[Not A Communist Shill]

“People who have a religion should be glad, for not everyone has the gift of believing in heavenly things. You don't necessarily even have to be afraid of punishment after death; purgatory, hell, and heaven are things that a lot of people can't accept, but still a religion, it doesn't matter which, keeps a person on the right path. It isn't the fear of God but the upholding of one's own honor and conscience. How noble and good everyone could be if, every evening before falling asleep, they were to recall to their minds the events of the while day and consider exactly what has been good and bad. Then, without realizing it you try to improve yourself at the start of each new day; of course, you achieve quite a lot in the course of time. Anyone can do this, it costs nothing and is certainly very helpful. Whoever doesn't know it must learn and find by experience that: "A quiet conscience makes one strong!" ~ Anne Frank, less than a year before she died.

Shocking that anyone could believe that such a person deserves to suffer for eternity.

[applejacks]

“People who have a religion should be glad, for not everyone has the gift of believing in heavenly things. You don't necessarily even have to be afraid of punishment after death; purgatory, hell, and heaven are things that a lot of people can't accept, but still a religion, it doesn't matter which, keeps a person on the right path. It isn't the fear of God but the upholding of one's own honor and conscience. How noble and good everyone could be if, every evening before falling asleep, they were to recall to their minds the events of the while day and consider exactly what has been good and bad. Then, without realizing it you try to improve yourself at the start of each new day; of course, you achieve quite a lot in the course of time. Anyone can do this, it costs nothing and is certainly very helpful. Whoever doesn't know it must learn and find by experience that: "A quiet conscience makes one strong!" ~ Anne Frank, less than a year before she died.

Shocking that anyone could believe that such a person deserves to suffer for eternity.

You're very quick to reason that God doesn't exist despite the astounding wonders of creation, and yet you refuse to reason that an individual named Anne, whom God loves, who was under God's original covenant, may not have been given divine grace through Jesus during her last few moments of life because of her circumstances, when God was able and willing to give grace to a thief (whom He also loved) dying on a cross.

This is turning from a debate of reason to a debate of bias.

[SongOfSapphire]

Re: free will and the punishment of non-belief with eternal damnation -- yikes.

I agree it seems like an overreaction for a being to condemn its creations to eternal damnation -- billions and trillions of years x infinity -- for what they did in the 0-110 years they lived on Earth.

... or is the reasoning that the "deviant" beings, including nonbelievers who were nevertheless loving and helpful people during their lives, have proven themselves unworthy of this god's love?

I really want to know. I find Christianity (as the religion I'm most familiar w) fascinating, but I cannot bring myself to follow it or any other religion that I know of.

[Jeremy8419]

Let's not question people's types in this thread, please, @Maritsa and @Jeremy8419. It's moving toward an ad hominem response and away from rational debate of ideas...and this is a fairly interesting exchange.

I'm not questioning his type. I'm pointing out that he is operating in his Role. Suggestive function, in his case, manual labor, is a solution to this.

[applejacks]

Re: free will and the punishment of non-belief with eternal damnation -- yikes.

I agree it seems like an overreaction for a being to condemn its creations to eternal damnation -- billions and trillions of years x infinity -- for what they did in the 0-110 years they lived on Earth.

... or is the reasoning that the "deviant" beings, including nonbelievers who were nevertheless loving and helpful people during their lives, have proven themselves unworthy of this god's love?

I really want to know. I find Christianity (as the religion I'm most familiar w) fascinating, but Incannot bring myself to worship what I consider such an unjust god.

I understand. Nobody likes the idea of hell. But nobody likes the idea that H i t l e r can end up in the same place as, say, Mother Teresa. What is justice? What is mercy? What is redemption? Who can know a man or woman's heart but God?

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall inherit the earth."

The point is, we come to God not of our own doing, so that no one may boast, and so that pride may no longer tempt or corrupt us once in heaven. We come completely on grace through faith, and not on works.

[Not A Communist Shill]

You're very quick to reason that God doesn't exist despite the astounding wonders of creation, and yet you refuse to reason that an individual named Anne, whom God loves, who was under God's original covenant, may not have been given divine grace through Jesus during her last few moments of life.

This is turning from a debate of reason to a debate of bias.

The "wonders of creation" can be reasoned to exist from observation: it is the practical results of empiricism that mean that they can be satisfactorily said to exist. It is not jumping the gun to say that something which cannot be observed does not exist, but rather a representation of the facts. I talk only of "god": it can be even more readily said that a moral god does not exist, if the only god put forward is one that causes eternally suffering.

The theology which says that the original covenant god made with the Jews is still applicable to Jews after Jesus's death is not consistent with Christian ideology (at least as represented in Scripture). Jesus was the sacrificial lamb for the whole world at the time of his death, according to his belief, and with the destruction of the Temple, it absolutely cannot be said that the Jews are making their obligatory sacrifices to Yahweh. In addition, the covenant that god made with the Jews is conditional on accepting the Messiah: if Jews do not accept Christ as their Saviour, as their sacrificial lamb, they are eternally damned. Jesus was perfectly clear in his message to his fellow Jews, and to the wider world on the Gentiles. As you said "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to God the Father except through Him."

If you wanted a debate of reason, you would have provided actually direct evidence of god, and explained why there is virtue in believing. There is no Reason in believing contrary to your senses, or contrary to your ethics, and there is no logic for punishing people who are unable to believe for those reasons. Again, what is the virtue in believing in god? You shouldn't do good because god tells you, but because it is good. That should be perfectly simple. None of this hate towards good people who happen to be non-Christians, please.

[SongOfSapphire]

You're very quick to reason that God doesn't exist despite the astounding wonders of creation, and yet you refuse to reason that an individual named Anne, whom God loves, who was under God's original covenant, may not have been given divine grace through Jesus during her last few moments of life because of her circumstances, when God was able and willing to give grace to a thief (whom He also loved) dying on a cross.

This is turning from a debate of reason to a debate of bias.

So do you believe God forgives good people (people who were generally kind, loving, honest, helpful, etc) despite them not believing in what the Bible says? And if you do, is this in the Bible someplace?

[Jeremy8419]

She identified as Jewish before she entered the concentration camp, and there is no evidence that any of the camp guards converted her to Christianity, so I think it is reasonably safe to say she died not being a Christian. I also think it is safe to say that millions of Jews were murdered and burnt by the Nazis without becoming Christians, only to now face the prospect of being burnt alive for eternity, according to the tenets of Christianity.

A guess is a guess. Maybe they all converted. Having no knowledge either way, means that no one converting and everyone converting are equally probable. Maybe everyone, period, converts?

This is why I stated that the Catholic Church doesn't condemn nor judge anyone, because the leaders aren't stupid and they know that they have zero idea whatsoever what the future holds for anyone, and does not assume what does and does not go on in the human heart and mind.

[Skepsis]

[applejacks]

The theology which says that the original covenant god made with the Jews is still applicable to Jews after Jesus's death is not consistent with Christian ideology (at least as represented in Scripture). Jesus was the sacrificial lamb for the whole world at the time of his death, according to his belief, and with the destruction of the Temple, it absolutely cannot be said that the Jews are making their obligatory sacrifices to Yahweh. In addition, the covenant that god made with the Jews is conditional on accepting the Messiah: if Jews do not accept Christ as their Saviour, as their sacrificial lamb, they are eternally damned. Jesus was perfectly clear in his message to his fellow Jews, and to the wider world on the Gentiles. As you said "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to God the Father except through Him."

Correct. But the point I am making about Jews being under the original covenant is that we have seen time and time and time and time again when God, out of his tremendous love for the jewish people - His people - redeemed them. Therefore, you do not know if God gave a vision or a miracle or a gospel reading of Christ to any or all of those in the concentration camps prior to their death. You just don't know.

[Not A Communist Shill]

A guess is a guess. Maybe they all converted. Having no knowledge either way, means that no one converting and everyone converting are equally probable. Maybe everyone, period, converts?

This is why I stated that the Catholic Church doesn't condemn nor judge anyone, because the leaders aren't stupid and they know that they have zero idea whatsoever what the future holds for anyone, and does not assume what does and does not go on in the human heart and mind.

This still doesn't wash away the god that supported genocide, rape, and slavery, and the doctrine of Damnation. Even if god sends zero people to hell in reality, if such a god existed, it would still be evil, still be one that threatened you with the most evil ideology ever devised.

You are supposed to be wary of Satan. But if go round believing in the virtue of this god you keep going on about...how do you know you aren't actually following Satan? You are believing in a being that promotes great evil. Face facts.

When tyrannies carried out atrocious deeds in the past, do you really think you would be one of those who suddenly stop yourself and say "Hang on a minute...this is fundamentally evil, I'm taking no part in it"?

[Jeremy8419]

This is turning from a debate of reason to a debate of bias.

Oh, sorry, apple. Debates and logic and such are Ti, which is paired with Fe for a reason. Ti exists to create a framework of defense for how someone feels. It has nothing to do with reality or facts. It is simply someone giving a structure for what they feel. Unless someone is playing devil's advocate or simply repeating someone else, all debates and logic are bias. Emotions and beliefs predicate all logic.

[Aylen]

ahaha, not I. I always thought it would be well worth my life just to travel through our own solar system and see the outer gas giants firsthand. As for intelligent alien life, once we overcome the communication barrier, just imagine what kind of conversations could take place and what we would learn before our planet is pillaged for resources and the few chosen kept alive or captured for research purposes.

As for religion, it is here to stay, for hundreds if not thousands of more years. It is the secularists and non-believers I fear for.

LOL, now even aliens will rape and pillage. Earthlings can't catch a break. I kind of liked the way Jodi Foster connected in "contact". That would be beautiful to experience. I find Spielberg's aliens in Extant more relatable too even if they went about things the wrong way, at first, but hey, they didn't know and now they do . I wouldn't mind being a humanoid hybrid with special powers. I would not be inclined to be a bug-like species of alien, visiting earth, as people hate creepy crawlies. How long before we would start loading up missiles with industrial strength "Raid" even if they meant no harm? :/

Oh and I do plan to see it all, once I am dead. I don't trust the tech that will come about in my lifetime to get me anywhere quickly and safely. I would step through a wormhole in a minute if it looked enticing enough but only when I am older. I still have reasons to be here for now. I have eternity to explore anything beyond this but only one life as the me, that I am now, and I want to spend the rest of it on earth with my mind in space. If my next life is alien from another dimension I will stop by and say hello. You might not be able to see or hear me because of an unrecognizable form that the human mind can't register but I will do it.

[applejacks]

So do you believe God forgives good people (people who were generally kind, loving, honest, helpful, etc) despite them not believing in what the Bible says? And if you do, is this in the Bible someplace?

Hey Sapphire

Good question! God does forgive! There are a ton of places where He talks about forgiveness.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9

"Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

"Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another as Christ forgave you." Ephesians 4:32

"But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will the Father forgive your trespasses." Matthew 6:15

The point is to receive Christ's forgiveness, and to be so deeply humbled by this act of forgiveness that we can in turn forgive others. God's teaching is the very center of who God is- to love one another. To forgive. To show compassion. To be at peace with one another. To show mercy.

[Jeremy8419]

This still doesn't wash away the god that supported genocide, rape, and slavery, and the doctrine of Damnation. Even if god sends zero people to hell in reality, if such a god existed, it would still be evil, still be one that threatened you with the most evil ideology ever devised.

You are supposed to be wary of Satan. But if go round believing in the virtue of this god you keep going on about...how do you know you aren't actually following Satan? You are believing in a being that promotes great evil. Face facts.

When tyrannies carried out atrocious deeds in the past, do you really think you would be one of those who suddenly stop yourself and say "Hang on a minute...this is fundamentally evil, I'm taking no part in it"?

People are damned by themselves, not by God. If I decide I want to up and move to China, do I blame others for me moving to China?

Satan looks like smelly Ti. Ti with a furry unwashed...

Also, slavery rocks.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Correct. But the point I am making about Jews being under the original covenant is that we have seen time and time and time and time again when God, out of his tremendous love for the jewish people - His people - redeemed them. Therefore, you do not know if God gave a vision or a miracle or a gospel reading of Christ to any or all of those in the concentration camps prior to their death. You just don't know.

Next you will be saying that atheists and Muslims will be going to Heaven too. Maybe you'll even say this doctrine of Damnation is a charade to compel people to worship god, or that it is something invented to make god look bad.

In which case...why all this effort directed towards god? People are clearly capable of great good without god, and without fear of punishment. If believing in god means you must justify the actions of an allegedly evil god, why believe at all? Only focus on doing good things, let god sort out the rest, if he exists. Perhaps in reality, god devised this hell business so as to reward those who find it abominable, and who need evidence before they believe in something.

Anne Frank's father survived the horrors of Auschwitz by the way, and he didn't mention any such event.

[Jeremy8419]

So do you believe God forgives good people (people who were generally kind, loving, honest, helpful, etc) despite them not believing in what the Bible says? And if you do, is this in the Bible someplace?

Fyi, in Catholicism, those who were not afforded the opportunity to know Christ in life are absolved, as are children 8 (used to be at least) years old and younger (though, generally, it's the age in childhood where a child becomes "aware" of right and wrong).

[applejacks]

Next you will be saying that atheists and Muslims will be going to Heaven too. Maybe you'll even say this doctrine of Damnation is a charade to compel people to worship god, or that it is something invented to make god look bad.

In which case...why all this effort directed towards god? People are clearly capable of great good without god, and without fear of punishment. If believing in god means you must justify the actions of an allegedly evil god, why believe at all? Only focus on doing good things, let god sort out the rest, if he exists. Perhaps in reality, god devised this hell business so as to reward those who find it abominable, and who need evidence before they believe in something.

"And [Jesus] said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."

I'm certain this includes jewish concentration camps.

I do not say who is or isn't in heaven. But I do say that Jesus is the way, and it is God's heart that all people have the good news proclaimed to them. The good news of free grace and salvation, freedom from shame and guilt. Freedom to love one another in humility and forgiveness and grace.

All. People.

[mu4]

The point is to receive Christ's forgiveness, and to be so deeply humbled by this act of forgiveness that we can in turn forgive others. God's teaching is the very center of who God is- to love one another. To forgive. To show compassion. To be at peace with one another. To show mercy.

Why Christ's?

Why not some other god who forgives without all the association with genocide, rape, damnation and lies?

The truth is that we can choose to forgive others without believing in god, and this humbleness comes from us in the face of the universe which is infinitely vast compared to us. And infinitely vast compared to a pitiful religion built on lies, written by man which steals this knowledge for it's own vanity for it's own purposes.

The truth tells us that we are small, the universe is vast. Man does not need an intermediary for this truth, we can see this plainly and without artifice or dogmaticism, without the need to push our beliefs on others, without damning unbelievers to hell, without prescriptions against all sort of things which man do out of love instead of hate.

Man is small, so is religion infront of the universe. No man needs religion to be humble, just as no man needs religion to be forgiven, and no man needs religion to forgive. We are all capable of love and capable of receiving love. And that's all the truth we need.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Fyi, in Catholicism, those who were not afforded the opportunity to know Christ in life are absolved, as are children 8 (used to be at least) years old and younger (though, generally, it's the age in childhood where a child becomes "aware" of right and wrong).

Didn't the Catholic church worry people for centuries, and cause unbaptised infants to be buried in unconsecrated ground? Evil.

[Not A Communist Shill]

"And [Jesus] said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation."

I'm certain this includes jewish concentration camps.

I do not say who is or isn't in heaven. But I do say that Jesus is the way, and it is God's heart that all people have the good news proclaimed to them. The good news of free grace and salvation, freedom from shame and guilt. Freedom to love one another in humility and forgiveness and grace.

All. People.

Do you feel comfortable with defending a god that claimed to exterminate most of the population of the Earth, and who condoned genocide, slavery, and rape, amongst other things? When would you start to think "This seems a bit wrong?"?

[Skepsis]

LOL, now even aliens will rape and pillage. Earthlings can't catch a break. I kind of liked the way Jodi Foster connected in "contact". That would be beautiful to experience. I find Spielberg's aliens in Extant more relatable too even if they went about things the wrong way, at first, but hey, they didn't know and now they do . I wouldn't mind being a humanoid hybrid with special powers. I would not be inclined to be a bug-like species of alien, visiting earth, as people hate creepy crawlies. How long before we would start loading up missiles with industrial strength "Raid" even if they meant no harm? :/

I would actually expect that an advanced alien civilization will not be so inclined, that they will be of a higher learning and more rational that we, but I do not want to be too naive either..... just in case. I'm prepared to politely decline if they request for us to be a part of their life cycle though.

Given our own history, I'm more worried of how ignorant people would react to them.

[SongOfSapphire]

Hey Sapphire

Good question! God does forgive! There are a ton of places where He talks about forgiveness.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9

"Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8

"Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another as Christ forgave you." Ephesians 4:32

"But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will the Father forgive your trespasses." Matthew 6:15

The point is to receive Christ's forgiveness, and to be so deeply humbled by this act of forgiveness that we can in turn forgive others. God's teaching is the very center of who God is- to love one another. To forgive. To show compassion. To be at peace with one another. To show mercy.

What if someone doesn't qualify, as @Jeremy8419 described, as someone who never heard the gospel? I mean, if a person heard it, considered it, and rejected it... but lived a life that would otherwise qualify him/her for heaven, is the Christian view that he/she would get in?

And a similar question: You referenced Hi7ler, whom you said people wouldn't want where a good Christian was...if Hi7ler accepted Christ and asked your god for forgiveness, would he go to Heaven?

[Not A Communist Shill]

You should consider a type that is a cold rationalists for yourself

You say this because you object to me defending the intrinsic value of humans even if it means hurting god's feelings.

[applejacks]

Do you feel comfortable with defending a god that claimed to exterminate most of the population of the Earth, and who condoned genocide, slavery, and rape, amongst other things? When would you start to think "This seems a bit wrong?"?

I don't need to defend anything God has done or said.

God exterminated the whole Earth save 8 people for reasons that I can trust. The hearts of all the people were evil, continuously thinking, dwelling, and acting on evil.

"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5

The point is this- our lives are short for a reason. The spirit in us is strong, but the flesh is weak. We know it to be true by the wrongful things we do and say, and yet God still loves us and wants us to be with Him for all eternity. So He has a made a way for anyone and everyone to come to Him. Free! Freely given!

[Skepsis]

LOL, now even aliens will rape and pillage.

This makes me think of an idea for an excellent(relative) B-movie: Vikings from Outer Space.

[Jeremy8419]

Didn't the Catholic church worry people for centuries, and cause unbaptised infants to be buried in unconsecrated ground? Evil.

What's your point?

You waggled your wiggly. Evil.

[mu4]

[Skepsis]

[Not A Communist Shill]

I don't need to defend anything God has done or said.

God exterminated the whole Earth save 8 people for reasons that I can trust. The hearts of all the people were evil, continuously thinking, dwelling, and acting on evil.

"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5

The point is this- our lives are short for a reason. The spirit in us is strong, but the flesh is weak. We know it to be true by the wrongful things we do and say, and yet God still loves us and wants us to be with Him for all eternity. So He has a made a way for anyone and everyone to come to Him. Free! Freely given!

I disagree. Jesus says in Scripture that each tree is known by its own fruit. If you claim to love and follow (and defend) someone who takes part in genocide, slavery, rape, and damning, then I absolutely feel you need to explain yourself. We need to move on from those times, and I think attempting to verbalise your reasons will help everybody move towards a more amenable epoch.

Further, if you justify genocide, and damnation, as you have done in this thread, you have all the more reason to defend god. Also yourself I think.

I frequently say I am shocked that we live in a world where Abrahamic religious values are "normalised". If the world was truly rational, the books of the Abrahamic religions would be banned as terrorist manuals are, and hate speech. To say that someone should would be eternally burned because they do not agree with your religious views is hate speech condoning the worst level of terrorist ideology ever imagined. Why you consider the genocidal god of the Old and New Testament to be any better than the genocidal god that justifies atrocities by Muhammad, Al-Qaeda, ISIS etc. is completely beyond me.