here is another example of your dishonesty. nobody even came close to implying this. your opinion counts for absolutely nothing because you are deliberately misleading.Originally Posted by siuntal
Guys calm down.
Let's all be friends.
And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.
I am not being dishonest, simply pointing out that it isn't as black-and-white as you made it out to be.
If there is any dishonesty present, take a look at yourself, sitting on this forum 10/7 or perhaps even more since you're here any time I log on, constantly making some new threads about some ephemeral topics like "how do you read poetry", over-developing your virtual life at expense of your real life, and after all that trying to persuade yourself and others that you are Se-creative. Get real.
and statements like these make it difficult to see you as anything else but a prissy EII who is now stomping her feet and making up false accusations because someone, me in this case, has dared to disagree with her self-typing
If anyone is wondering at lung's responses it's because I continue to type her with her old self-typing of EII, and don't agree with ESI typing for her, which apparently she explained to herself by imagining that I am trying to deceive her for some inexplicable reason.
Lol I can be pretty dorky but dolphin tells me that internet Gilly translates unexpectedly well to RL Gilly so I guess what you see is what you get ^_^
Aqua seems less dorky than me, to me at least...I do think we are pretty similar overall though. We definitely seem to hold very similar views on many things, and I can see myself behaving and reacting similarly to him in a variety of situations. I think he is quite likely a 3w4 sx/so despite appearing to be rather stereotypically 7w8.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
this made me think of a new version of that xkcd comic, where instead it says "SOMEONE IS CALCULATINGLY FRAUDULENT ON THE INTERNET!!"
welcome to the ranks of us nerds lungs
i never even implied it was black and white. you're making stuff up again.
poking holes in socionics is something that is a major part of my presence here.
you're saying i'm being over-simplistic and then you go on to say i can't be se creative because i'm on the forum too much and i talk about poetry.
this doesn't even make any sense.
i don't think you're just trying to decieve me. i think you're deceptive in general. you have a habit of putting words in people's mouths and using little parlor tricks like attributing functions to instinct stackings in order to get your way. its transparent and gross.
get over yourself.
Sorry fenGuys calm down.
Let's all be friends.I cannot be friendly with someone who is deliberately making false allegations concerning me, attributing motives to me that don’t exist, misrepresenting me, and calling me “calculatingly fraudulent” without a shred of evidence.
You are delusional lungs. I have put in many hours translating profiles and articles from Russian to English so that you and other people on this forum could have accurate information on socionics topics, and after that you accuse me of being deceptive? Your accusations aren’t even making any sense. The only dishonest person here is you. In order to assert your ESI typing it is evident that you will stoop as low as to spin lies about me. Sad really.i don't think you're just trying to decieve me. i think you're deceptive in general. you have a habit of putting words in people's mouths and using little parlor tricks like attributing functions to instinct stackings in order to get your way. its transparent and gross.
You did. Read up. You implied that posivitist type would contradict you poking holes in socionics, to which I replied that no, if you pay attention to what’s going on this forum practically everyone, positivists and negativists, will bash socionics. It doesn’t prove anything any way since it’s just a popular pastime around this place.
I haven’t said you are being “overly simplistic”, don’t put words in my mouth.you're saying i'm being over-simplistic and then you go on to say i can't be se creative because i'm on the forum too much and i talk about poetry.
I’ve had several ESI girlfriend and one thing that stands out with them in comparison to EIIs is that they will often ask me to go out and engage in some real activities with some concrete goals. It can be as simple as riding bikes around town, going shopping, going to a rave, exploring new parts of town, etc. Real activities, real actions, real results, that is what ESIs value, and it’s something that is thoroughly lacking in your own attitude. You are evidently more interested in sitting here engaging in internet battles over your self-typing.
What way? I'm typing Aqua into a different quadra ffs. If I wanted to have my way I would drag him into Beta as my dual, since he is an intelligent, witty, attractive guy. You are not making any sense.... in order to get your way.
Labster voted you as ESI in the last typing poll you've made. You are twisting facts in a futile attempt to justify yourself. You are simply shameless aren’t you.
I happen to think she is ESI, I actually think lungs is generally engaged in RL activity when she's posting as she's on her phone.
I think lungs is a inert vs contact subtype. This meansand
are going to be more pronounced.
This would explain her sometimes (neurotic) focus on these abstract matters.
I have had a lot of interaction with a EII who is very active in life. Yoga, shopping, kids to school, PTA, dinner, soccer practice etc,etc,etc. I think EII and ESI can have this sort of hectic(but kinda of blah) lifestyle which can seem a bit too much. But it's a lot of mundane activity which are very basic and often a bit boring.
translating type descriptions has nothing to do with being honest or dishonest. it is dishonest of you to imply that it does.
i have already made it clear that it doesn't have to do with defending my self-typing. there are a few other people here type me something other than ESI (otoh, invisiblejim, thehotelambush, ineffable, jwc3) and i do not consider them to be liars. i only consider you dishonest because you are and if it was simply because of the way you type me, then it would not make sense that i would not think similarly about those people. i can't make this any clearer. and the fact that i've already stressed this point and you continue to evade it is yet another example of you being a liar.
i was bringing up that it is a major part of my presence and it is the main thing several people associate with me.
just because other people do it and its a "past time" doesn't negate the fact that i do it because there are several other people who don't do it, and discussing socionics without poking holes in it is also a popular past time. along with not discussing socionics at all.
i do ask people to do things. i do go out with people. i'm sure eii's do, too, though, so it feels silly to use it as an argument. a good deal of my conversations in chat revolve around things that i've been doing in real life. maybe this is why people who actually know me and talk to me regularly and have one and one conversations with me and see me in tinychat, etc, type me esi. i also do spend a lot of time on the forum but i really don't think this is type related anyway. i mean you type absurd lse and hypothetically he should be out and about being si-ej. so this is silly and probably more about trying to make a low blow about me being a nerd or something than anything else.
labster and i have conversations outside of forum posts. sometimes things come up outside of forum posts that you might not know about. there's chatbox, tinychat, IM, texting, etc. you are very confident about your typing of me considering you are someone i talk to less than most people here who do type me esi.
kassie, I don't think siuntal has lied about you, she's just made some observations.
Fight.
If she hasn't lied about you, how can she be dishonest?
It's more accurate to perhaps say that siuntal is misinformed about you or do not know you enough.
Lungs was talking about, hmm, Santa Claus, hkkmr. Not siuntal.
That's the spirit. Do not go Gamma. People die there. Like in a hospital or get a good night's sleep in my case. Anyway, point still stands. Funny though seeing Aquagraph tossed around quadras like a rag doll.
I was mostly responding to her accusations. If some type her as EII and others as ESI due to whatever observations they've made, that's fine, but I am not going to take kindly to her publicly and falsely accusing me of lying.
To the contrary, if you want to be dishonest it is better to keep information away from others as that would allow for most freedom to craft whatever arguments are most convenient to yourself. What I've been doing for the past year is the opposite of that – bringing more information to this forum, and making citations from these articles in discussions and typing threads, demonstrating that this information comes directly from Russian socionics publications, as you can see I've done in my reply to Gilly.
Yet you completely ignore this and stubbornly insist that I am making stuff up. Your whole mindset is just so bizarre - you manage to block out parts of reality from your awareness in order to believe whatever you want to believe. Can you explain yourself to me?
Your previous replies demonstrate the opposite. My first post in this thread was about Aqua's typing. I made no mention of your type, yet you immediately jumped on it to point out how you think it contradicts my typing of you as a positivist. You were the first to bring your typing into this, and now you’re trying to pull a 180 and claim the opposite.i have already made it clear that it doesn't have to do with defending my self-typing.
You have been trying really hard in this thread to make up slander against me. If it’s not your self-typing then there is something else that is motivating this spitefulness. What is it kassie?
Well all you’ve done so far is throw around accusations never showing any evidence of these supposed malicious, calculating intents and desires “to have things my way”. So far I’ve disproven every allegation that you’ve contrived. You’re either misinformed about me, which would make sense since you have never interacted with me, or you’re deluded, or have some other motivations to concoct this slander.there are a few other people here type me something other than ESI (otoh, invisiblejim, thehotelambush, ineffable, jwc3) and i do not consider them to be liars. i only consider you dishonest because you are and if it was simply because of the way you type me, then it would not make sense that i would not think similarly about those people. i can't make this any clearer. and the fact that i've already stressed this point and you continue to evade it is yet another example of you being a liar.
And I’ve pointed out that this doesn’t prove anything either way since both negativist and positivist types have been known to do this. There are people of positivist types, like ambivalent existence (ILE), who have simply abandoned socionics finding it too flawed to continue with it. You've got major presence - they got major absence.i was bringing up that it is a major part of my presence and it is the main thing several people associate with me. just because other people do it and its a "past time" doesn't negate the fact that i do it because there are several other people who don't do it, and discussing socionics without poking holes in it is also a popular past time. along with not discussing socionics at all.
Those kinds of things just don't seem to be priorities for you, and I am not the only one who has noticed it, however, this is not the main reason that I type you as EII.i do ask people to do things. i do go out with people. i'm sure eii's do, too, though, so it feels silly to use it as an argument. a good deal of my conversations in chat revolve around things that i've been doing in real life. maybe this is why people who actually know me and talk to me regularly and have one and one conversations with me and see me in tinychat, etc, type me esi. i also do spend a lot of time on the forum but i really don't think this is type related anyway. i mean you type absurd lse and hypothetically he should be out and about being si-ej. so this is silly and probably more about trying to make a low blow about me being a nerd or something than anything else.
My main reasons are quotes like these. This is from Tao Te Ching typing thread where you made a comment how that D-A writing had a potent relaxing effect on you:
“introverted irrational + dialectical algorithmic = ili or sei
I only just started reading it. I had it saved in my bookmarks for awhile forgotten about. yesterday I was stressed out over shit in my life and happened to click on it and I swear my blood pressure dropped after five minutes. I don't remember text ever having such an immediate effect on my mood.”
Assuming EII typing for you, the above makes a lot of sense, since D-A belongs to type LSE and you have attested how this expression style had such a strong effect on your mood. You’ve also commented in some other place, don’t remember where now, that you find yourself taking well to D-A cog-style. Well, D-A is dual to C-D and C-D belongs to type EII.
Of course at this point you're going to try to assert I'm disingenuous in my typings with twice the determination.
So it’s perfectly fine for you to accuse someone you don’t know and never interacted with of lying, but it’s not ok to decide on your socionics type? You hypocrite.labster and i have conversations outside of forum posts. sometimes things come up outside of forum posts that you might not know about. there's chatbox, tinychat, IM, texting, etc. you are very confident about your typing of me considering you are someone i talk to less than most people here who do type me esi.
You don't need to know someone to be able to competently type them, just take a look at the Famous People forum. Socionics is a simple and crude typology - there are three dichotomies, T-F, N-S, E-I, and all you're doing is trying to figure out where someone is along these dichotomies. This can be done by reading the person's posts and seeing what attitudes they express. I’ve seen your posts a plenty to decide on Ne-INFj.
Maybe it's aMy guess is some interaction or something she has read by you has colored this interaction personally, and this thread has set this off, and this probably has nothing to do with Aqua's type. It's interesting result tho.
I think it's easy to see that lungs is interested in
IMO, when lungs approach things, she takes aapproach, it's very straightforward, personal and often aggressive. Imo, it's why very quickly she started with aggressive personal language towards you.
May be, since she isn't really disclosing why she thinks what she thinks but keeps on repeating the same thing. If I'm right with her EII typing it may be due to us being quasi-identicals; she seems to be misinterpreting almost everything I say.Maybe it's a
I have to run now, will try to reply to the rest later.
you've left out this sentence from the part you quoted:
so predictable ^^
That's a really narrow view of Fi man. By my observations, your SEI-Fe duals are more likely to do that, whereas myself (I am serious about ESI), am uncomfortable doing that and only do that with the purpose of clarifying and re conciliating. Why would an Fi type seem to enjoy expressing and focusing their mind on so much negative energy? And yes, I'm serious here. We probably disagree on theory, but I'd still like to hear what you think about this, if you're up for it.Maybe it's a
The same shit that's always going on this forum.
yeah, futility.
i don't get your view on fi ftr but i don't really think i feel like talking about it.
i'm not explaining myself comprehensively re siuntal because its like trying to explain what colors look like or something. i can't articulate it and people who aren't blind will already know and people who are blind never will so it's not worth it.
It's alright. I just wanted hkkmr to be aware that that behavior can come from his quadra, even if it isn't valued. It makes it sort of cheap to suggest pinning it on Fi like that because it's strictly negative and gives a bad idea of what Fi is internalizing as a cognitive process. The same shit happens with XLEs even, but I guess it's theoretically easier to suggest shallow emotions, reactions, and behaviors as Fi. Poli was probably mostly right when he said socionics hasn't defined Fi; it took me this long to figure out I'm not really much of an ILI or even IEI because Fi has a lot of negative and heavily baseless attributes to it, while Ti is like this God function. And Ni seems to be the description of a smart loner type person.
right, anyway, it doesn't matter.
Trying to take over the world?
Johari/Nohari
"Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."
Fruit, the fluffy kitty.
It sounds here as if other forum members are supposed to conclude that if we don't agree that we see things wrong or whatever with siuntal that we are defective ("blind"). I'd appreciate it if you'd not cast such a wide net to pull others in. If you have a problem with her, so be it. I don't, she is mostly quiet, she has a point of view and is as entitled to that as anyone else, and she probably feels attacked right now, so I'm not apt to judge the things she says or doesn't in this thread as proof of anything.
You have leveled similar attacks on me in the past and I found it very hurtful. You successfully drove me away from chatting in irc where there were several people I liked, and at the time I was quite lonely irl and those connections mattered to me then. I don't think I'm mad about it anymore ... it's better to find other ways to pass my time anyway. But I do wish you would stop laying into people (women, mostly, if memory serves).
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Not what I'm getting at. What I take seriously is that she seems nice enough and generally minds her own business yet you ruthlessly lay into her here and define the terms of the attack such that anyone who doesn't agree she deserves it is stupid. I don't care about your criticisms of her nor about her nor your opinions on socionics. I do care about you attacking her and falling deeper and deeper into illogic in order to justify it.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
It's just a function, don't bring types into it. But she went personal with siuntal in a non-personal discussion. And no, SEI's don't do personal in public all that much, in private sure, but in public they're more diplomatic and maybe a bit wishy washy. Anyone can focus on negative things if they happen to be sad or negative because of a life situation. Everyone can be depressed.
Maybe you're SEI...
Jk, I don't think there would be a problem with a ESI and a IEI having difficulty communicating. As the beneficiary a lot of what you say is going to be ignored by her.
I've found that Fi polr types do this a lot, much more than Fi types anyway. I usually want to discuss negatively coloured / personal things in private, and often find myself in uncomfortable situations where somebody with weak Fi starts that kind of topics when there are other people around.
lungs and siuntal, less fighting, more talking about me.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Are you sure Fi-polrs are doing personal, maybe they're just attention seeking. I don't really think a Fi polr is going to talk about something he's personal about in public.
What's really happening is they're talking about something you think is personal but for them, it's just something else entirely.
You might think a Fi polr is getting "personal" but it's not, they're not really involved in that topic, they're being tactless. However, if you so happen to get something really personal from a Fi polr, that means you're part of their tight group. I talk about a number of "personal" topics with my friends, but have I really ever gotten personal with my friends. I don't think I have even once been fully involved with my friends and family, it's always been a level of companionship detached from deep emotional involvement.
You're actually getting personal in this post of yours.
"I usually want to discuss negatively coloured / personal things in private, often find myself in uncomfortable situations where somebody with weak Fi starts that kind of topics"
A Fi polr might say something, "so yea I was doing this and that, and this or that happened.... ewwwwwwwwwwwww" or some sort of jokey thing about a sensitive topic, but it's not personal. There is a lack of involvement about it, the emotions are extroverted, it's just a show.
Here you've done exactly what you said you don't do and that is discuss a negatively coloured/personal thing in public. I guess you can't help yourself.
Also with ego functions, it's a lot about how one communicates with other people so if a Fi ego didn't communicated a lot via Fi I would be surprised.
Derailed the thread, since Aqua needs more attention and this is taking away from it.
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