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Thread: Difference between Si and Fi

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    Default Difference between Si and Fi

    I've found that Si and Fi deal with similar things. Where Fi is about close emotional feelings, Si is about internal feelings from stimuli. Can someone explain the difference?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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    perceiving versus judging and dynamic versus static, but personally i find it easier to view them in groups (say FiNe and SeFi vs. SiTe and SiFe) that way you get the reinin
    Last edited by Delilah; 02-19-2017 at 03:15 AM.

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    I'd prefer something more concrete, but thanks. Mostly because I don't get it. Yep, I continued reading about the dichotomies, and they are going right over my head. I guess from the static-dynamic dichotomies it means one person thinks descretely, while the other person thinks in a continuous pattern. Now I thought that everyone thought descretely, with each thought being its own thing, but apparently that may not be true. What if thoughts blended in with each other like a two colors of paint? What if I'm not aware of this? I'm probably overthinking it.
    Last edited by Alomoes; 02-19-2017 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Because I looked again, and I'm starting to get it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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    In your sentence you might be mixing up the word "feeling" which can have two different meanings. I'll try to describe them without using the word "feeling" and it might clear it up.

    concerns itself with what the relationships are between people and how well they understand each other, and what action is the most appropriate in line with what the other person wants, expects and general etiquette rules. Their "feelings" for each other are about the relationship between people.

    concerns itself with the body's internal sensations, stuff like too hot, too cold, unbalanced, etc. and how certain actions will improve or worsen those physical states.

    Another distinction which might help is, bouncing off the static-dynamic perceiving-judging dichotomy,
    (static-judging) concerns itself with how the world should be, and should be the correct action here. There is a kind of timeless ideal which the is referencing when thinking about correct action. I think you can imagine it as the world changing in discrete steps. Everyone is a certain way, and then stuff changes and everyone is a different way. It isn't slow incremental change, it's steps along a process.
    (dynamic-perceiving) concerns itself with how the world is, and how it affects the physical sensations they receive. It is always changing in the moment as the body's state changes, and it doesn't have an ideal world in mind when it tries to change things.
    Warm Regards,



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    something simple would be maybe Si is a personal skill and Fi is a judgement, like value judgement though not necessarily externally expressed whereas Si might be a skill observable by others such as bartering

    just one of the differences;

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    Ok. I understand.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClownsandEntropy View Post
    In your sentence you might be mixing up the word "feeling" which can have two different meanings. I'll try to describe them without using the word "feeling" and it might clear it up.

    concerns itself with what the relationships are between people and how well they understand each other, and what action is the most appropriate in line with what the other person wants, expects and general etiquette rules. Their "feelings" for each other are about the relationship between people.

    concerns itself with the body's internal sensations, stuff like too hot, too cold, unbalanced, etc. and how certain actions will improve or worsen those physical states.

    Another distinction which might help is, bouncing off the static-dynamic perceiving-judging dichotomy,
    (static-judging) concerns itself with how the world should be, and should be the correct action here. There is a kind of timeless ideal which the is referencing when thinking about correct action. I think you can imagine it as the world changing in discrete steps. Everyone is a certain way, and then stuff changes and everyone is a different way. It isn't slow incremental change, it's steps along a process.
    (dynamic-perceiving) concerns itself with how the world is, and how it affects the physical sensations they receive. It is always changing in the moment as the body's state changes, and it doesn't have an ideal world in mind when it tries to change things.
    wow this is really great

    I always have an ideal world in mind. When we were watching the show with Chef Ramsey and kitchen nightmares with the LSE and SLI I couldn't believe how far that was from my relationship ideal and from the ideal of how other people should be treated and it was appalling
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    wow this is really great
    I'm just wondering, nearly curious you might say, what is it you find so appealing in his explanation coz mine was better and down to earth whereas symbology like that you can find in any article ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I'm just wondering, nearly curious you might say, what is it you find so appealing in his explanation coz mine was better and down to earth whereas symbology like that you can find in any article ??
    He separates the functions from what we refer to as "feelings" because though everyone has feelings they stem from two directions for these two types. For Fi it stems from a place where the external doesn't match an ideal of interpersonal relations or a view of how things should be and for Si feelings are moved when they get a sensation like when someone looks at them the wrong way in a particular moment.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I always have an ideal world in mind. When we were watching the show with Chef Ramsey and kitchen nightmares with the LSE and SLI I couldn't believe how far that was from my relationship ideal and from the ideal of how other people should be treated and it was appalling
    Well I kind of do the same thing and I'm not EII. Maybe it's an NF thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alomoes View Post
    I've found that Si and Fi deal with similar things. Where Fi is about close emotional feelings, Si is about internal feelings from stimuli. Can someone explain the difference?
    I don't think so, Fi is about how feel your feeling, Si is about how taste your sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alomoes View Post
    I've found that Si and Fi deal with similar things. Where Fi is about close emotional feelings, Si is about internal feelings from stimuli. Can someone explain the difference?
    They are abstractions of behaviour in people, predominantly:

    R is about relationships and bonds. So the main focus is abstracting information related to how people explicitly build and sever relations. Along with adjacent features like morality and traditions which are somehow thought to be related.

    S instead is about sensations an awareness of pleasure and displeasure. Here the main focus on how people relate to sensations, it has nothing to do with intrinsic feelings per say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    I don't think so, Fi is about how feel your feeling, Si is about how taste your sense

    Unless you are going by WSS or Wikisocion then you've deviated from traditional socionics. R is about morality and relations, it is not about feelings - those instead are covered by ethics of emotions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    They are abstractions of behaviour in people, predominantly:

    R is about relationships and bonds. So the main focus is abstracting information related to how people explicitly build and sever relations. Along with adjacent features like morality and traditions which are somehow thought to be related.

    S instead is about sensations an awareness of pleasure and displeasure. Here the main focus on how people relate to sensations, it has nothing to do with intrinsic feelings per say.
    Yes
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    Unless you are going by WSS or Wikisocion then you've deviated from traditional socionics. R is about morality and relations, it is not about feelings - those instead are covered by ethics of emotions.
    I think relation, morality is based on "preferences" wich is based on ones feeling toward things. Not sure of it thought

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    Unless you are going by WSS or Wikisocion then you've deviated from traditional socionics. R is about morality and relations, it is not about feelings - those instead are covered by ethics of emotions.
    Hold on, but what exactly is a "relation"? It has to be based on some sort of subjective feelings that you feel towards others, like like/dislike, love/hatred etc.

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    Ok, well, I'll explain my conundrum. So, I got into music a long while ago. I heard a song work and liked it, so that would be Fi, correct? Then I continued listening to it for a while, hoping for emotions similar to before. Would this be Si? Note, the music litterally made me "high". Of course, the effects were never as strong latter as they were initially.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

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    and are very far apart, though.

    is creating, overseeing, understanding personal bonds. is the feel you get when you drop a bathbomb into your filled tub and dfkhdskjf you get all fuzzy because IT'S SO GOOD HNGHHH






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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Hold on, but what exactly is a "relation"? It has to be based on some sort of subjective feelings that you feel towards others, like like/dislike, love/hatred etc.
    It's rules. Morals are a set of rules too. For example this is a rule: "one should support their friend" so the Fi will act along the lines of that rule of relations and if she sees a friend being badgered by a stranger about let's say a seat at a theater the Fi will say "let's go support our friend"

    How are people made to belong to Fi? When they come in contact with an area or zone of Fi. When someone joins the Group or organization where the Fi supervises the moral scope even if she doesn't say "this is my area" she feels and moral judgement for that area.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Hold on, but what exactly is a "relation"? It has to be based on some sort of subjective feelings that you feel towards others, like like/dislike, love/hatred etc.
    It's from the russian "отношения" or relationships if you want a translation that is easier to work with. You are overcomplicating things with your personal deviation of traditional nomenclature.

    "эмоций" is about raw emotions and that is what is thought to cover like/dislike, love and hate - those are active emotional states.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    It's rules. Morals are a set of rules too. For example this is a rule: "one should support their friend" so the Fi will act along the lines of that rule of relations and if she sees a friend being badgered by a stranger about let's say a seat at a theater the Fi will say "let's go support our friend"
    Still, those rules are (initially) based on some sort of feelings. "You are my friend because I like you". It's the kind of circularity that Fi is based on nothing but the "feeling itself". It's like saying that "love is a natural feeling that you feel towards others". "A mother loves her child because it is natural". It's not really something that even makes sense other than that it exists for some reason, which is why it clashes with Ti which is more "objective logic".

    You could say that "You should love your parents" is Fi, but why? Because it's natural? There's not actually any objective reason for it, which is more Ti.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    It's from the russian "отношения" or relationships if you want a translation that is easier to work with. You are overcomplicating things with your personal deviation of traditional nomenclature.

    "эмоций" is about raw emotions and that is what is thought to cover like/dislike, love and hate - those are active emotional states.
    Ok, so I thought like/dislike, love/hate were traditionally Fi, but those are Fe now? Or am I not understanding correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Still, those rules are (initially) based on some sort of feelings. "You are my friend because I like you". It's the kind of circularity that Fi is based on nothing but the "feeling itself". It's like saying that "love is a natural feeling that you feel towards others". "A mother loves her child because it is natural". It's not really something that even makes sense other than that it exists for some reason, which is why it clashes with Ti which is more "objective logic".

    You could say that "You should love your parents" is Fi, but why? Because it's natural? There's not actually any objective reason for it, which is more Ti.
    I will attempt to explain to you what happens so that you may understand this better.

    Let's take various scenarios:

    I'm alone as a teenager. No one is around me. I'm in a room by myself and there's no Tv on. In me there's no feeling nothing to make abstractions of any kind.

    Next state: I'm interacting with let's say my mom. She tells me to do some activities and I feel her state. She's been up all night and wants some help cleaning up. She doesn't say anything but "I've been up all night cooking with your dad" I feel (a state) bad for her state of tiredness and I don't want to aggravate that and make her feel worse. I believe that this is inherent ability to read someone because my mom is my benefit relationship and you can read how request transmits and the service role get going in the benefits.

    Next state: I'm reading a book "to kill a mockingbird " I see in my mind eye how being treated unfairly tends to produce circumstances and states in others. The rule is then derived "don't judge someone based on color because this is what may result" etc (this is simplified).

    Next: the TV goes on and they show a man being beaten for being black (this is an example) I pause and say "that's horrible. Why I'm this day and age would they continue to segregate people based on color " I'm reacting at this point because I've felt the pain that was caused to a man who was innocent in the previous book.

    If I don't have experience from external situations I often react inappropriately to the situation and I'm not objective because I'm only reacting from the set of rules.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I will attempt to explain to you what happens so that you may understand this better.

    Let's take various scenarios:

    I'm alone as a teenager. No one is around me. I'm in a room by myself and there's no Tv on. In me there's no feeling nothing to make abstractions of any kind.
    I still don't see how your experience is any different from mine as an IEI. But anyway, you must experience things differently than I do somehow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I still don't see how your experience is any different from mine as an IEI. But anyway, you must experience things differently than I do somehow.
    I'm different from Ni because Ni isn't about states it's dynamic and envisions things differently and is much more concerned about time. IEI dress differently from EII. I think that they are more purposeful and more emotionally displayed than I am. They tend to react to people's wrong doings differently. EII doesn't want to hurt a person's feelings (purposely to control someone's power position).

    I may be romantic but not as a typical tendency. I don't romantically court someone. I start talking to them as a friend. I don't eat up other people's time for me.

    "Feeling that Esenin is doing something wasteful and unnecessary, Shtirlits starts to rudely interrupt him, destroying his daydreams and romantic atmosphere, with which he evokes an outcry and dissatisfaction with his conflictor, and provokes accusations in his address: "You're such a cruel and callous person. This is why you're not liked by anyone." It is obvious that such statements are not the balm for the soul of Shtirlits. Negative attitude towards himself, as well as the negative characterizations, Shtirlits receives with much pain, since the aspect of ethics of relations is his suggestive function. The IEI notices this and other vulnerable spots of the LSE and, with characteristic for him as an involutionary type subconscious tendency for destruction of all that is unreliable and unstable, starts to focus on these points and exert destructive influence on them."

    In a romantic relationship I would not call my partner cruel. I would let them come to conclusions by themselves. In a solid relationship I always fear towards bringing out the positive aspects of someone , motivating them and encouraging them towards projects that they mind find beneficial and not concentrate on their short comings
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I still don't see how your experience is any different from mine as an IEI. But anyway, you must experience things differently than I do somehow.
    In my eyes IEI can be malicious because they'll want to stay in the relationship yet find weak points of a person' and work on them. EII will want to leave, be left alone and EII will forgo losses and find other opportunities but lament to their close friends.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Your problem is that you seem to overcomplicate everything and come at the end with trivial/normal/unrelated to socionic things being seemingly linked to function, Fi, Jung, Socionic...

    Fi is emotions of emotions, how feel emotions in term of good/bad perhaps. Singularity got it about subjective feeling, no need to go further, moral, rules, and stuff....
    Next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    Your problem is that you seem to overcomplicate everything and come at the end with trivial/normal/unrelated to socionic things being seemingly linked to function, Fi, Jung, Socionic...

    Fi is emotions of emotions, how feel emotions in term of good/bad perhaps. Singularity got it about subjective feeling, no need to go further, moral, rules, and stuff....
    Next.
    Who's problem?
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @Maritsa So what are those rules based on? Or are they completely arbitrary.

    And can you describe how you typically feel towards other people? How do you feel towards your friend, your family, this random stranger or that random stranger etc. How do they differ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    @Maritsa So what are those rules based on? Or are they completely arbitrary.

    And can you describe how you typically feel towards other people? How do you feel towards your friend, your family, this random stranger or that random stranger etc. How do they differ?
    Rules are based on including others in this circle of existence (maybe it's biological preprogrammed to keep social circles in tact and somehow I'm an anomaly to that and mine has branched outside a tight knit circle).

    Sorry i have to think about this
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-21-2017 at 12:49 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Rules are based on including others in this circle of existence (maybe it's biological preprogrammed to keep social circles in tact and somehow I'm an anomaly to that and mine has branched outside a tight knit circle)
    I think those rules are designed to keep your good feelings toward them intact. Of course, you would feel terrible otherwise if you were always so conscious of your own attitudes toward others.

    Fi rules are designed so that people's behaviors do not deviate from people having good feelings toward them. Basically, it says that people should be in "good" behavior at all times. Fi PoLRs typically rebel from this because they want to act in whatever ways that they want, without any constraints or restrictions. But they're not aware that their own behaviors may make others feel bad about themselves. They think people like Trump are disgusting, and what is worse than feeling disgusting towards others? He should be in "good" behavior. He should be well-behaved.

    So basically, Fi says "You should behave exactly in a way that I feel you should, so that I would not feel terrible about it".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I think those rules are designed to keep your good feelings toward them intact. Of course, you would feel terrible otherwise if you were always so conscious of your own attitudes toward others.

    So basically, Fi says "You should behave exactly in a way that I feel you should, so that I would not feel terrible".
    Maybe I'll have to think about this because then I'll have to ask myself what happens when my feelings are not in tact. Can I just brush it off? Or do I would feel much worse if I wanted to be in a relationship with that person. Maybe the longer a distance from an intimate relationship the less I care and the more I'm willing to not think about that person but isn't that the case for everyone? Every human being? Then if that is true than what part of it is significant to the function of Fi?

    Just as how maybe a sensory type relates more to objects of a variety of color and style I think Fi relates more to relationships
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I think those rules are designed to keep your good feelings toward them intact. Of course, you would feel terrible otherwise if you were always so conscious of your own attitudes toward others.

    Fi rules are designed so that people's behaviors do not deviate from people having good feelings toward them. Basically, it says that people should be in "good" behavior at all times. Fi PoLRs typically rebel from this because they want to act in whatever ways that they want, without any constraints or restrictions. But they're not aware that their own behaviors may make others feel bad about themselves. They think people like Trump are disgusting, and what is worse than feeling disgusting towards others? He should be in "good" behavior. He should be well-behaved.

    So basically, Fi says "You should behave exactly in a way that I feel you should, so that I would not feel terrible about it".
    Yes people should be in proper behavior but why? Socionics is about society and the economics of society so that things can be conducted a certain way. The functions of Fi and how it mitigates rules may make me more sensitive because of reacting to injustice but ultimately it serves a purpose
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Maybe I'll have to think about this because then I'll have to ask myself what happens when my feelings are not in tact. Can I just brush it off? Or do I would feel much worse if I wanted to be in a relationship with that person. Maybe the longer a distance from an intimate relationship the less I care and the more I'm willing to not think about that person but isn't that the case for everyone? Every human being? Then if that is true than what part of it is significant to the function of Fi?
    Well yes, I think everyone is aware of their own feelings toward others to a certain extent. But for Fe types, other's feelings toward them are more important than their own feelings toward others. And for T types, they're less aware of either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Yes people should be in proper behavior but why? Socionics is about society and the economics of society so that things can be conducted a certain way. The functions of Fi and how it mitigates rules may make me more sensitive because of reacting to injustice but ultimately it serves a purpose
    Again, I think the purpose of people being in proper behavior is so that people's feelings toward them (Fi) are not disturbed. You can't hate a person who is in good or proper behavior.

    In a perfect Fi society, everyone is behaving perfectly. Everything is just exquisite. People are very polite and they rarely offend or conflict with another, at least not on the surface. People are very kind and always do the right thing without being asked. People just know what to say and how to behave, because everything is prescribed for them. There are rules and protocols for everything. They would tell you exactly what to say at a certain moment in a certain kind of relationship in a certain way. They will tell you what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. They will tell how you should be feeling or should not be feeling. They will always be telling you how to behave in the most minute of details.

    Most people would find such environments to be very stifling, especially the Fe-valuing types, but it must be heaven for the Fi-dual seeking types because they are being told how they should feel and behave.
    Last edited by Singu; 02-21-2017 at 06:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Well yes, I think everyone is aware of their own feelings toward others to a certain extent. But for Fe types, other's feelings toward them are more important than their own feelings toward others. And for T types, they're less aware of either.



    Again, I think the purpose of people being in proper behavior is so that people's feelings toward them (Fi) are not disturbed. You can't hate a person who is in good or proper behavior.

    In a perfect Fi society, everyone is behaving perfectly. Everything is just exquisite. People are very polite and they rarely offend or conflict with another, at least not on the surface. People are very kind and always do the right thing without being asked. People just know what to say and how to behave, because everything is prescribed for them. There are rules and protocols for everything. They would tell you exactly what to say at a certain moment in a certain kind of relationship in a certain way. They will tell you what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. They will tell how you should be feeling or should not be feeling. They will always be telling you how to behave in the most minute of details.

    Most people would find such environments to be very stifling, especially the Fe-valuing types, but it must be heaven for the Fi-dual seeking types because they are being told how they should feel and behave.
    Okay so Fe is governed more by external forces guiding a person's relations (these external forces may be societal pressures to have or make a family by a certain age let's say as an example) with others: the law, social customs, employers' rules ,and the like. While Fi is more based on a person's sense of internal justice (this person sense is developed from the bases of feelings for others in a An excluded situation) and what they feel is ethical and right in dealing with other people (those ethics come from some place too and they come from parents directly), regardless of legal or social ethical enforcement.

    For example, think of the movie "Loving." By the dicates of Fe, Richard and Mildred Loving were horrible criminals, living in sin and in violation of both the laws of Virginia and (as they saw it) the dictates of God. But by the guidance of Fi, these people were noble and ethical, treating each other in a way consistent with how their internal selves taught them to treat one another.

    Having Fe role for someone like an LSE would be "yes they should get arrested because that's the law that they broke" and Fi steps in and says "that maybe true but laws change and that law isn't right because it doesn't factor human circumstances like the need for someone's emotional and internal situations " this bringing individual circumstances to very objective situation

    In a perfect Fi society people are not governed necessarily by rules or law but by common need to make sure others feelings are not hurt by the poorly thought of actions of others and that people recognize that we can all exist is a community much like the island of IKARIA in Greece all cooperative working and cooperative efforts. For myself I think Fi is much like a monistic community. But that too has some rules. So then the question is can there be just a society of only Fi maybe not. Maybe Fe types recognized the need for objectivity "I made this rule; you broke it and now I don't feel empathy you go to jail " maybe that saves the Fi types from trying to reason what became unreasonable people
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-21-2017 at 03:40 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Okay so Fe is governed more by external forces guiding a person's relations (these external forces may be societal pressures to have or make a family by a certain age let's say as an example) with others: the law, social customs, employers' rules ,and the like. While Fi is more based on a person's sense of internal justice (this person sense is developed from the bases of feelings for others in a An excluded situation) and what they feel is ethical and right in dealing with other people (those ethics come from some place too and they come from parents directly), regardless of legal or social ethical enforcement.
    Noooo.... laws and rules are more Ti than Fe (Ti is more objective rules... Fi is more subjective rules). Fe is purely guided by people's feelings ONLY. You deal with what people are feeling in the moment (or will feel in the future). If you hurt the person's feelings, then you are bad. If you can make them feel better, then you are good. You are guided by people's feelings alone (or your own).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Noooo.... laws and rules are more Ti than Fe (Ti is more objective rules... Fi is more subjective rules). Fe is purely guided by people's feelings ONLY. You deal with what people are feeling in the moment (or will feel in the future). If you hurt the person's feelings, then you are bad. If you can make them feel better, then you are good. You are guided by people's feelings alone (or your own).
    Our Socionics definition then differ slightly. The definition that I just gave you was cooperatively written by myself and an ESE writer friend who joined me in watching the movie "Loving " and where we discussed our base functions and how we viewed the movie.

    I'm saying Fe compasses around rules (external factors) not necessarily makes them
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post

    Again, I think the purpose of people being in proper behavior is so that people's feelings toward them (Fi) are not disturbed. You can't hate a person who is in good or proper behavior.

    In a perfect Fi society, everyone is behaving perfectly. Everything is just exquisite. People are very polite and they rarely offend or conflict with another, at least not on the surface. People are very kind and always do the right thing without being asked. People just know what to say and how to behave, because everything is prescribed for them. There are rules and protocols for everything. They would tell you exactly what to say at a certain moment in a certain kind of relationship in a certain way. They will tell you what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. They will tell how you should be feeling or should not be feeling. They will always be telling you how to behave in the most minute of details.

    Most people would find such environments to be very stifling, especially the Fe-valuing types, but it must be heaven for the Fi-dual seeking types because they are being told how they should feel and behave.
    I am still thinking on this part
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Having Fe role for someone like an LSE would be "yes they should get arrested because that's the law that they broke" and Fi steps in and says "that maybe true but laws change and that law isn't right because it doesn't factor human circumstances like the need for someone's emotional and internal situations " this bringing individual circumstances to very objective situation
    I think that's more NF than Fi. ESIs would be just as rigid as the LSE.

    In a perfect Fi society people are not governed necessarily by rules or law but by common need to make sure others feelings are not hurt by the poorly thought of actions of others and that people recognize that we can all exist is a community much like the island of IKARIA in Greece all cooperative working and cooperative efforts. For myself I think Fi is much like a monistic community. But that too has some rules.
    That's what I said. There will be a lot of subjective relational rules like "You should say or do these things in these moments with these kinds of people".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post

    Again, I think the purpose of people being in proper behavior is so that people's feelings toward them (Fi) are not disturbed. You can't hate a person who is in good or proper behavior.
    Fi looks out for the feelings of others. They rules of interpersonal relationships will come into play in the following example

    My SEE nephew bother his SEE sister to the point where he made her uneasy and cry. I say to him "don't do that to your sister (not that he should do it to anyone else but she's the immediate recipient of his behavior). You're making her uneasy and to cry." She says "wahhh he always pulls my hair." While the Fe is saying "John, stop that." I think I do more appealing to emotionally because I want him to feel her pain so to say
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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