Poliamory

[marooned]

what do you think of this and do you think it is type related to be open for polyamory? Do you think you could accept it? Why/why not? Would it be easier to accept being the person with two lovers or the person who shares the partner with another?

I don't think it's really type-related ... but I'm not sure? I knew one person who was rather polyamorous who I think is IEE.

I've thought a lot about polyamory and I think that I have the clear, unavoidable, bottom line that I could only be with one person. I've imagined different scenarios... but... I don't think it would work for me. I don't have a problem with polyamory itself though or anything. I just seem to be emotionally only able to tie that deeply with one person... etc. And after searching myself a long time, I think that it seems this part of me is rather fixed in my nature, whereas a great many other things are easily shiftable and movable (malleable). Oh, also I couldn't be with someone who's with multiple partners.

As a side note, when I was reading Seven Years in Tibet, it was interesting that one wife and two husbands was very common there because there were significantly more men there than women (or so it said). And I think that definitely some of this can adapt to cultural practice, norms, population, etc. With the IEE I mentioned it was more a case of falling in love with multiple people at the same time and not being able to sort his feelings... and preferring to not have to in a sort of "let it be" way.

I only fall in love with one person at a time, however (at least so far). And I don't fall in love easily either. Anyway, if I were ever to fall in love with more than one person, then I don't know what would happen...

I think polyamory probably isn't related to type, but to being open for untraditional choices, when that's what life offers you. I guess some types might be more open for that than others, though. And I think I've read somewhere that jealousy is more typical of some types than others.

basically agree.

ETA: oh, actually, though it could be related to being "traditional" in some cases, i think that also it's about just how one feels inside.

[1981slater]

It looks something related to irrationality (socionics ).

[1981slater]

I thought the same thing.... At least it would make everything a lot more complicated, as it could potentially hurt the kids one way or another if their father/mother had an additional girl/boyfriend. However, my experience is that kids can be fine with anything that the parents are fine with, so if the parents are calm about it, I think it would not be a problem for the kids. Kids need love, but not much else. (There will be problems one way or another sooner or later anyways.)




How so? I considered the same thing, but then I remembered that I know an IEI woman who was married to an LSI and had an SLE boyfriend in addition. They all accepted the arrangement, and it seemed peaceful.

The irrational person gets more

[anndelise]

When I first met Richard I was in two other relationships, as well as being a member of a support group that discussed various issues that comes up when in poly-relationships. In others I have seen these relationships work, and in others I've seen them fail.

One girl, the girl I was seeing, typed herself as enfp, and lives with a guy who she types as intp. She dated another guy (type unknown) who has since moved in with them. It's not a threesome kind of thing. She spends time with the intp, and she spends time with the other guy. She's also bi (obviously) and spends other time looking for a female she feels connected with.

The intp's not interested in seeing anyone else. They've been together for years. But rumor has it that there's some trouble happening between them, not because of the poly-relationships, but because they don't seem to have anything in common anymore.

The other guy, who I consider a friend, has shown interest in seeing other women besides the enfp. But the enfp has some personal issues and insecurities, so when he shows an interest in someone else, her insecurities rear up and/or she gets jealous, fearful of losing him. So then he won't show his interest in someone else anymore, and she calms down after that. I believe that they are trying to work on these issues, together.

Another couple from the group had been married for a few years. I'm not sure how many. They were a fun couple that seemed sorta made for each other. Ages were maybe late 40s to mid 50s. They had had relationships with other individuals and other couples. Sometimes all together, sometimes separate. They were fun to hang out with. She was usually the outspoken one and the initiator. He was more quite and shy and a follower.

Then they got involved in a poly-amory group in Seattle. This one seemed centered around one charismatic guy with lots and lots of women. It was almost like a cult..no, not almost, I'm pretty sure it IS a cult. They moved in with the group. The wife had so many females to connect with now, as well as the charismatic guy. The husband was treated as an outsider, a pheripheral. He had a difficult time connecting with anyone. And eventually, the connection between husband and wife withered. They divorced. He went into a deep depression.

The other guy that I was seeing, (I was seeing two people) is FeSi. He was really made for this lifestyle, lol.

Then I met Richard (SiFe). Richard knew I was seeing the other two people, he had no problem with it. In fact, we all partied together for my 32nd bday. I had just met Richard just before my birthday, and while I was trying to figure out what do two women do together besides kiss?? But with Richard, the connection was really intense. I couldn't think of anyone else but him. The enfp and I ended our relationship. After some internal struggles of mine, the esfj and I settled for seeing each other twice a week. This way I would have more time with Richard. But then I immediately had to change it to once a week with the esfj. And then, that one night came to be with the esfj, and I felt as if I was kicking Richard out of his own home. He BELONGED in my bed. We BELONGED together. So I ended the relationship with the esfj. I consider myself a poly-drop-out.

There are times when I wish that our relationship was open again. I admit to missing the butterflies and nervousness and passion that comes from meeting and seeing someone new. I miss that intensity of getting to know someone in depth. I feel bad that Richard winds up shouldering all my issues. It would be easier to spread them out so he doesn't have to be my EVERYthing. But that's all that I'm missing. There is no greener grass that I'd even be willing to consider if it meant risking my relationship with Richard.

My relationship with Richard is the longest I have ever had. My absolute longest relationship before Richard was 9 months. My average was between 3 weeks to 3 months. (I had been a 'serial dater'...date one person and when that falls through date another person, jumping from relationship to relationship.) Richard and I have been together for 5 years now.



Based on my memories of this particular group, I'd say that most of the men were F types. Most of the women were bi. And probably about a third of the women were T types. I'd also say that the majority of the people were extroverts, with a small handful of quiet, shy, "followers".

[implied]

I can't be like that. I have strong attachments, and only to one person at a time. I can't imagine what it'd feel like otherwise.

i agree with you basically completely.

[1981slater]

It's always easier to be the one person with two bf's/gf's than to share someone

that's the point

[FDG]

I wouldn't be able to do that, and I wouldn't be able to stand it either.

[1981slater]

I'm actually increasingly thinking marriage isn't healthy. I might be wrong.

no, you are right

marriage = game over

A Spanish comedy:

---1st pair, 1 year of marriage

"Honey, you remind me of a song. Why? Because you are in my heart"

---2nd pair, 15 years of marriage

"Honey, you remind me of a song. Why? Because you can't keep up more than 3 minutes"

---3rd pair, 40 years of marriage

"Honey, you remind me of a song. Why? Because the more I listen to you, the more repulsive you look to me"

[FDG]

Could you say a bit about why you feel that way?

If I were in the position to be polyamorous, I would feel bad for the girs - I would feel like I'm betraying them both, and I would be constantly worried about them not being happy about the situation. If I were in the position to be one of the many boyfriends, I would simply be jealous and think that I'm not that special for the person anyway (I don't mean to say that it must be so, but that is what I would instinctively think).

[07490]

I've never been strongly attached to more than one person at a time, so my immediate reaction is "no, I probably could not do this"... though regarding love and attachments, I have and still do spend a lot of time thinking about the possibilities; I think that honestly, I am "never say never" about these things, especially in this stage of my life, I am young and don't consider myself mature or that knowledgeable in regards to intimate relationships yet; I can't say for sure that I'll never fall in love with two people at once! though I can say that at this point in time, I do get jealous, sometimes very easily; it's such a nasty feeling. (since I find that situation emotionally unfavorable I would not expect anyone else to put up with it either.) and I don't think I could handle the idea of being one of many, I'd rather be "it", I want "all or nothing"; that is how I treat all those that I have ever been in love with, and I expect and long for the same in return. so, because I cannot see myself enjoying the emotional situation, as well as the rotten and unfulfilled feelings it could most likely bring me, I will say that for now, I could not do this, but I don't know if this is something that would possibly change or not, simply because of what I see as my lack of emotional maturity, and that I've sometimes found myself to be quite malleable (though on the flip side, I am also extremely unyielding at times.)

I am 21 right now, going to be 22 in July, This is 100% me as well.

[07490]

I read most of what Mimosa Pudica said on this thread, I think you have a lot of experiences and ideal about what you want In Love.

[Park]

LOL, I was just thinking about this the other day when Carla suggested something to me...

I think I can easily imagine myself being a part of this kind of thing as long as there's strong emotional and intuitive understanding between the ones involved. If there's a mutual feeling of attraction and acceptance, will for unreserved love and trust, then it should be easy. But I guess you have to be at least somewhat idealistic in order to actually let this happen and make it work.

If life offers me such an opportunity and I see good potential, I'll do everything it takes to make it work, and as flawlessly as possible.

Btw, I would not have a problem being any of the people in that triangle, I think, as long as it made emotionally sense to make such an arrangement, and as long as all parties were ok with it, and I felt I could trust them all.

Yeah.

[07490]

I don't think Deep intimacy can be achieved because intimacy is being shared from one to one, another partner in a love triangle will inevitably gives a feeling of "the attention is not being shared just by you and me". I'm being very open minded about this.

[Park]

<3

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Park]

It would utterly destroy me to know that I'm not special, that our relationship is so easily replaceable and meaningless to him, that the things that we share he's also sharing with someone else.

That doesn't have to be the case. I don't see why the involvement of a 3rd person must make the existing relationship meaningless, or less meaningful and special than it was. Do you not think it's possible that three people bond and form a special and meaningful relationship?

I'm aware that the reciprocality would grow from 2-way to a 6-way one, and that each person would have to nurture two (perhaps somewhat separate) relations, but why is this not possible? Or why should the quality necessarily lower in case it happens?

When I fall in love, it's to an extremely deep level, and I am very very vulnerable. I give my heart completely, and I have to trust that it will be safe with the man I'm giving it to. I want him to feel like the gift of my heart is something almost sacred. The ability to let down all guards, and share each other without any barriers between you is what I most want and long for. That total intimacy and vulnerability is not possible if you start bringing other people into the relationship. Not for me it's not.

I agree that this would be harder to accomplish with more than one person but I also don't want to think it's impossible or too hard to do. "The only limits you have are the ones you set upon yourself."

[anndelise]

First of all, polyamory isn't necessarily about 'group sex'.
It's more about multiple intimate relationships.

Some of us have relationships with a family member. A mother we can talk to. A sister we might hang out with. A brother who's always there for us.

Some of us have platonic friendships. A female friend that we can turn to when we are having relationship problems, who'll sympathize with us. A male friend who'll help us with the plumbing and who we can kick back with a pizza and talk politics. Or someone who comes over for game night.

We have different levels of intimacy with each person. Each friend is aware that you have other friends, that you do different things with different friends, that you talk about different things with different friends. Yet they don't have to be friends with each other in order to be friends with you.

Not many of us would expect to have only one friend and one friend only. And that friend to only have us as their friend. Two people against the world, unable to have friendships with anyone else. This person having to be your all, and only. Not allowed to talk to anyone else, nor share a part of themselves with anyone else, nor tolerate if another person wants to share anything about themselves...since they are outside of this two person friendship. We can care for only one person in our lives.

When we place this into the context of friendships and platonic relationships, it seems kind of silly, doesn't it.

We are fully capable of caring for multiple people. Your best friend, your sibling, your husband/wife, each of your children, etc. The only difference between poly-amory and platonic relationships is the sex, period.

And with the sex comes responsibility and trust and vulnerability.
Being responsible in your own sexual relationships to reduce risks of stds.
Trusting that your partner(s) are responsible in their sexual relationships to reduce risks of giving YOU an std.
And vulnerability to your own personal fears and insecurities. Do they love you enough? Are they committed to you? Are they comparing your sexual skills with someone else? omgod...how do you rate??

And that's why the need for open communication with your partner(s).
More than open...GOOD communication with your partner. Where communication is a two way street. And trust that their communication with their other partner(s) are also just as open and good.

Even in a monogamous relationship, we are faced with accepting responsibility for our own actions, trusting the other person, and exposing ourselves to our vulnerabilities. The biggest difference between this and the poly one is that there's no assumptions that just because you're 'in a relationship' with another person that all those things are magically gone.


However, with that said, poly-amory isn't for everyone, obviously.
Some people have enough difficulties with one-on-one relationships to ever consider another.
Some people have no desire for sexual relations beyond what they've got.
Some people would be happy to just have sexual relations with someone other than Rosy Palm.
There are all sorts of types of people, with all sorts of interests. And no one way will suit everyone.


Personally, even though I'm a poly-drop-out. I don't expect to be responsible for fulfilling all of Richard's needs and interests. Nor do I expect him to have to be the one to fulfill all MY needs and interests. imo, that's way too much pressure to place on any one person. If I found that he had a strong interest or need that I couldn't fulfill, I'd help him find someone who could. I'd hope and pray that it wouldn't end our relationship. I'd want the communications line free and open. I'd probably take steps to protect myself financially, just in case. And I'd have to figure out how to deal with my own insecurities. But their MY insecurities, not his. This is part of the responsibility. Not to say that it would be easy. But I love him, and I want him to be happy. . . even in areas that I, personally, can't 'make him happy' in. I guess I'd have to say that to me, this is one way of showing my love for him, wanting him to be happy even if I can't be the sole source of that happiness.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Creepy-Cyclops]

It's possible Diana is speaking from a female attitute of Gulenko's 'aggressor' type for what she is looking for from a partner?

Could be wrong Diana, sorry if my little 'observation' is off base.

Poliamory, for me is a strange one, although I don't think it's quite what i'm looking for, I wouldn't be adverse to it given the right circumstances.

[marooned]

I can only be in a sexual and romantic relationship with one man, and wouldn't want more than that, nor would I want him to be with anyone else. I have to be the only one he wants to be with. I can't share. It would utterly destroy me to know that I'm not special, that our relationship is so easily replaceable and meaningless to him, that the things that we share he's also sharing with someone else.

When I fall in love, it's to an extremely deep level, and I am very very vulnerable. I give my heart completely, and I have to trust that it will be safe with the man I'm giving it to. I want him to feel like the gift of my heart is something almost sacred. The ability to let down all guards, and share each other without any barriers between you is what I most want and long for. That total intimacy and vulnerability is not possible if you start bringing other people into the relationship. Not for me it's not.

I relate to a lot of this (not everything about it), but it feels similar to how I feel about these sorts of things... it feels similar to the part of me that seems to be fixed and unmoving.

I do believe circumstance can be powerful, and that the things that happen to us can change us dramatically... but still the way I feel about it now is 'I want it all, or nothing at all.' And that very mindset is not how polyamory seems to work... because polyamorous people don't seem to think that being with more than one person means "not having it all." And I think that some people are simply more polyamorous than others (kind of like how some people are more bisexual than others, or more heterosexual than others, or more masculine than feminine, etc.). A lot of those things can be influenced by circumstance of course, but there is also something about it in nature, seemingly.

[anndelise]

Because of the divided loyalties. You can't totally devote yourself to someone and they to you, if they're also devoted to someone else or you are. Maybe you're all headed the same direction, and in agreement, but what happens when you come to a fork in the road? Even anndelise's example shows that. When she found someone she really truly belonged with, that's who she wanted to be with, and when it came to that fork in the road, the choice was easy - for her to stay with Richard.

(note, I'm not trying to change your mind, diana )

Loyalties aren't necessarily divided.

As for me, there wasn't really a fork in the road. I wasn't committed to the two people I was seeing, nor they to me. We were seeing each other, as in dating. Had there been a commitment to either one, then we would have worked something out.

The thing is, in most of these types of relationships, there's what's called the "Primary". This is the relationship that takes primary status over all the others. Not every person wants to be in a primary relationship. Some are quite happy with being "Secondaries" or even "Peripherals". There are those people who want the companionship and the 'friends with benefits' deal, but without having to be so important to the person. And then there are those who like novelty or not being too emotionally close to anyone. Those who travel a lot and don't want to be alone in each city they regularly visit, so they'll have a relationship/companion in each city. Etc.

Richard is obviously my Primary. The other two people weren't. We had our relationship problems (me and the other two people). With the female, well, I didn't know what to do sexually with a female. So that, I guess, was doomed to end anyways. And the guy, while a good guy and fun to be with, we didn't really click well. The relationship with him was doomed to a parting of ways eventually anyways.

If Richard and I opened up our relationship again, then any other relationships would be peripherals or possibly secondaries. A secondary, to me, though, would wind up being almost as important to me as my primary relationship with Richard. (I say "almost" only because if for some reason I was forced to choose, then Richard would be my obvious choice.)

The point, though, is that I never felt compelled to choose one path over another path. To choose one relationship over another one.

Richard belonged in my home and in my bed. But that wouldn't have stopped me from continuing to see the other two people had those relationships any actual potential.

With that said, there ARE common issues that occur when a new relationship starts. This is usually when good communication between parties is a necessity.

*****

The enfp I mentioned earlier, her and the two guys live in the same house. The two guys are friends. No, they don't do threesomes in bed. It's like a group of people sharing the house, the chores, the expenses, etc... yet one person has sex with the other two at different times.

When she meets a potential female relationship, sometimes the new girl wants nothing to do with even meeting the guys. No problem. Sometimes the new girl will put in the little extra step to shake hands or hug each of the guys, acknowledging each of them in the enfp's life, and letting them know that she's ok with that and that she's not a threat to their relationship with the enfp. (and yes, sometimes a new female might try to separate the enfp from the two guys....she gets the boot as soon as those games get played)


There's another ...couple..i know. I mean, I know the husband, and I've met the wife. They live in a house that has an upstairs and a downstairs. The husband has the downstairs portion. The second man has the upstairs portion. The wife (who is the one who chose this lifestyle...and owns the house) spends one week with one, and one week with the other. On the weeks that the wife isn't with her husband, he's free to be with his other relationship. This other woman finds this situation works well with her schedule. This set up has lasted for over 7 years last I talked with them.

Maybe you're all headed the same direction, and in agreement, but what happens when you come to a fork in the road?

This situation happens in both kinds of relationships. Even monogamous ones. What happens if after years of being with someone it becomes apparent that you have absolutely nothing in common? Or he gets a job he's been striving for for years...but it requires that he moves to another city. Meanwhile you're already in your own dream job which you would lose if he moves. These kinds of choices and discussions come up in every kind of relationship. And is one of the reasons why communication is so important.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Another way to look at it is like this; who wants to play on the same golf course every day?

[Park]

First of all, polyamory isn't necessarily about 'group sex'.

And who said it was?

But for me, when it comes to the most deeply personal, then, there can be only one. That's how I am wired. I want him to be able to totally trust me, to be able to let down all defenses, emotionally, not just sexually, and know that it's safe with me. And to know, that he's the only one that has that position.

This sounds good and is extremely close to how I'd like it to be myself. The question now is whether 3 people can have exactly the same.

Because of the divided loyalties. You can't totally devote yourself to someone and they to you, if they're also devoted to someone else or you are. Maybe you're all headed the same direction, and in agreement, but what happens when you come to a fork in the road? Even anndelise's example shows that. When she found someone she really truly belonged with, that's who she wanted to be with, and when it came to that fork in the road, the choice was easy - for her to stay with Richard.

I see your point.

[Khola aka Bee]

I am very morally opposed to polyamory and in fact most sexual behaviour seen today.

[redbaron]

I think if the parties all know who's the "primary" status and who's the "peripheral" and everyone's fine with this, then it seems like it could work. As long as people are up-front and agreeing and not being lied to. I don't know many people who could accept this type of situation for long however. Not if they're truly head over heels in love and not just using the other person for a gap in their needs and/or sex. I'll bet for most people, being in love trips their jealousy wire. I think it would for me.

[ragnar]

... this woman ... is engaged with one man, and has a boyfriend in addition ... both know about each other ... She herself says it's like loving ... children ...

what do you think of this ... ?

I think the quote basically nails it - modern western "men" are just that - children. This is about little kids sharing a mommy.

I'd make a connection to feminism and rather think of it as little girlie "men" finding something like a real man (who happens to biologically be a woman) to hold their femi little hands.

Do you think you could accept it?

Not exactly my cup of tea, to put it mildly. My neighbors are welcome to be as silly as they like, though.