What's your opinion?

[dbmmama]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and fairly new to socionics. I've been going round and round wrapping my brain around trying to figure out my type. I understand this stuff in theory and can see it manifest in others easily but to see it in myself has been very hard...not very objective with myself.

Here are some things about me that seem to lead me to different types because they seem to contradict each other:

I love theory and have many about everything and main ones about life in general and will talk to anyone who'll listen (is open to) or is seeking advice or understanding on something. But, this drives me crazy because most people don't like "deep thinker, know it alls." So, I wish I could just lighten up and dance all day. And when I allow myself, I am very passionate, colorful, sexy about it. WOOHOO!

I go back and forth between these aspects to myself, very serious most of the time but passionate about my views on life.

I believe being a woman has something to do with it because being a quiet, shy, tomboy little girl was not very attractive to the opposite sex, or other little girls for that matter. So, I went the opposite extreme sometimes and act more Fe to "make friends." I especially do this on the internet and my websites to attract the women who are moms with whom are the ones that my theories can "help."

The internet then has become my Fe "outlet." So am I a closet Fe that was repressed somehow in my childhood? Or a Ti woman that doesn't like analyzing everything all the time and wishes she was more Fe?

And my writing style may not be indicative because I can change that with how I want to be portrayed at the time.

I am very physical in the sense of working out a lot, enjoy sex, play with my kids in sporty, physical ways. But, I am also in my head most of the time even as I play, analyzing things, mostly the meaning of people's behaviors around me, not really being in and enjoying the moment as much as I would like at all.

I am highly spiritual, everything is spiritual, everything is of a higher nature and then manifests at different levels. But am also very politically incorrect and don't like political correctness. I also don't like when people placate and don't tell the truth, as if I can't handle it... no thank you! I tend to tell the truth and think "if you can't handle it, then that's your deal." But, I can be very sensitive to deep emotional issues in people, but I still tell them the truth about them. lol If you hide your head in the sand...you can't grow without awareness...

I believe in people being authentically themselves and living their potential and I allow my children to live and learn what interests them. And I can still be firm, direct, straightforward when things need to get done.

I'm bad at handling money but dream of having lots. I'm a huge messy pig. I hate cleaning but will do it when things get so bad it either stinks so bad or we can't walk or play on the floor or someone is coming over. But I'm meticulous in my knowledge of the psychology and meaning of the behaviors of everyone around me, especially about their childhoods and how they affected them...

I believe we each create our own reality on all levels while still enjoying snubbing that knowledge sometimes to cuss and let off steam while saying "screw it all, it's all too pretentious for me!"

I've been an attachment parenting and unschooling advocate but have also let go of the advocacy aspect in my understanding that each needs the spiritual room to walk their own path, whether I agree with it or not.

I believe there is a grand scheme to life and we each came here with a purpose and type is one aspect that our purposes work through.

I am open to opinions, ideas, whatever...

Thanks!
Love,
Kelly Jo

[Kristiina]

I'd say ESFj.

ENFj is also a possibility and it would be my first guess, but some things here seem quite different from my general vibe. Ti dominant types are not really an opion here. ENFp could be an option, but highly unlikely compared to Fe dominant types.

I have a question - what would make you happy?
(the question of so broad on purpose, just give some answer if you feel like it. )

[Phaedrus]

Your most likely type, based on the information so far, is ENFp (IEE). Both ENFj and especially ESFj are out of the question.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I'd go for ENFp (IEE) for ya.

[JuJu]

I can't rule out ESFj--your post, word-for-word, could've been written by my spiritually-inclined ESFj Mom--so that's the direction I was leaning while reading...

That said, I can't rule out ENFp either. (The "screw it, it's pretensious" thing especially points to ENFp.) I'd say it's one of those two--it'll be easier to tell with more posts, and especially easy with some sort of visual.

[dbmmama]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies...

What would make me happy? Yes, broad but I understand your line of thinking here.

everyone respecting each others individuality, especially children. where i get to live life like a child where i could shut off my awareness of how each word, action, nuance affects a person's development.

ideal, yes. but i keep searching and striving for ways to have that happen...and in the meantime, happy i am not since physical reality keeps "getting in the way."

i've had that ideal since i can remember...

ESE: many of the descriptions I identify with except I am not an over the top social coordinator, party planner and definitely NOT a storyteller. I don't live in the moment and I am very much about symbolic meaning.

EIE: to me seems the most likely. But, I also am not good at foreseeing and planning for the future for myself. Great at it for others, have strong psychic abilities for others but not great for myself.

IEE: i do flit around from interest to interest and i have to be interested in anything to do it. i am also about individual potentiality. but i seem to be more sexually aware and blunt and "crass" than the descriptions of IEEs.

The search for happiness...each new "interest" I think is the "thing" that will make me happy, even socionics as I have been studying it. In the moments that I do let go and enjoy the moment, I am happy but they don't come naturally at all. I look kinda manic as I do that. The moments I have been truly happy were when I felt One with Spirit, an All is Well Peace and life was a moving, breathing meditation where everything was meaningful and meaningless at the same time. Where I could do, say, be whatever the hell I wanted and didn't give a shit what anyone else thought.

Love,
Kelly Jo

[strrrng]

beta NF....Ti/Fe is obviously there, and the way she described being spiritual struck me as Ni and she seemed to have a more aggressive quality about her, a controlled Se'ness

I believe in people being authentically themselves and living their potential

the crux of the enneagram 4 (most common for IxFp's)

so, I say Ni-INFp

[Sabo]

Add my vote to Beta NF. I could see EIE or IEI.

EIE: to me seems the most likely. But, I also am not good at foreseeing and planning for the future for myself. Great at it for others, have strong psychic abilities for others but not great for myself.

I think "foreseeing and planning for the future" in terms of material things is probably more related to Ni blocked with Te anyway, so this doesn't necessarily contradict EIE.

[dbmmama]

"a more aggressive quality about her, a controlled Se'ness"

THAT'S just it! I do not like anyone telling me what to do or telling my kids what to do with their lives. Their potential is THEIR potential to live however it comes out. And get out of my way or I'll kick your ass! But not literally!

I've also always worked out and enjoyed having others "think" I could beat them up or something and looking HOT because of it but being a scaredy cat when it came down to it. lol So, my "fights" have always been about my knowings and beliefs about parenting and child development...and respecting individual self expression. Not emotional expression per se but *Self* Expression.

I just took a quick enneagram test and came out equally 2, 4 and 8.

And then, the IP description on wikisocion is just a bit too "go with the flow" for me. Probably compared to the general public in my lifestyle but not naturally overall. The EP or EJ descriptions seem more "on."

Love,
Kelly Jo

[Phaedrus]

I can't rule out ESFj--your post, word-for-word, could've been written by my spiritually-inclined ESFj Mom--so that's the direction I was leaning while reading...

Extraversion and Feeling -- the first dimension is rather obvious, the second very likely. Also working out a lot, enjoying sex, and playing with kids are perfectly in line with ESFj. And maybe even changing your style of writing could be interpreted as showing competence in and therefore point toward some leading type. But besides from those aspects, there are some serious problems with the ESFj hypothesis:

1. ESFjs simply don't like theory. They are very practical-minded, down-to-earth people, and they prefer to act instead of discussing theoretical problems. To call an ESFj a "deep thinker" or a "know it all" is almost a contradiction in terms.

2. ESFjs in general don't like to go against public opinion too much. Not many ESFjs would openly state that they don't like political correctness -- that is a rather strong argument against the hypothesis that we are dealing with a leading type here. We can almost say that is related to political correctness. And to "tend to tell the truth and think 'if you can't handle it, then that's your deal''' does not suggest in the ego block, neither does it indicate that is highly valued.

3. Many people can of course agree with, or even themselves say things like "I believe in people being authentically themselves and living their potential", but it does not suggest ESFj as one of the top type candidates. It rather points toward one of the four NF types.

4. ESFjs are generally quite good at handling money.

5. ESFjs are not "huge messy pigs". On the contrary they often tend to be almost obsessed with cleaning and putting things in their right place, etc. ESFjs are very orderly people -- both at work and at their free time. They are good at planning, following schedules, etc.

That said, I can't rule out ENFp either. (The "screw it, it's pretensious" thing especially points to ENFp.) I'd say it's one of those two--it'll be easier to tell with more posts, and especially easy with some sort of visual.

I would say that all of the five arguments against ESFj can be seen as arguments for ENFp, at least they are perfectly consistent with that type hypothesis.

[JuJu]

Extraversion and Feeling -- the first dimension is rather obvious, the second very likely. Also working out a lot, enjoying sex, and playing with kids are perfectly in line with ESFj. And maybe even changing your style of writing could be interpreted as showing competence in and therefore point toward some leading type. But besides from those aspects, there are some serious problems with the ESFj hypothesis:

1. ESFjs simply don't like theory. They are very practical-minded, down-to-earth people, and they prefer to act instead of discussing theoretical problems. To call an ESFj a "deep thinker" or a "know it all" is almost a contradiction in terms.

2. ESFjs in general don't like to go against public opinion too much. Not many ESFjs would openly state that they don't like political correctness -- that is a rather strong argument against the hypothesis that we are dealing with a leading type here. We can almost say that is related to political correctness. And to "tend to tell the truth and think 'if you can't handle it, then that's your deal''' does not suggest in the ego block, neither does it indicate that is highly valued.

3. Many people can of course agree with, or even themselves say things like "I believe in people being authentically themselves and living their potential", but it does not suggest ESFj as one of the top type candidates. It rather points toward one of the four NF types.

4. ESFjs are generally quite good at handling money.

5. ESFjs are not "huge messy pigs". On the contrary they often tend to be almost obsessed with cleaning and putting things in their right place, etc. ESFjs are very orderly people -- both at work and at their free time. They are good at planning, following schedules, etc.


I would say that all of the five arguments against ESFj can be seen as arguments for ENFp, at least they are perfectly consistent with that type hypothesis.

As usual, some very good points here, Phaedrus.

Your observations are correct, IMO. Furthermore, now that I've read both your post and re-read her post(s,) I suspect that your hypothesis as to type is as well...

If you have time, do you have any thoughts on ENFj? That seems to be where she's leaning.

[Mea]

reading that description, i thought IEI immediately.
welcome to the forum dbmmama

[Phaedrus]

EIE: to me seems the most likely. But, I also am not good at foreseeing and planning for the future for myself. Great at it for others, have strong psychic abilities for others but not great for myself.

IEE: i do flit around from interest to interest and i have to be interested in anything to do it. i am also about individual potentiality. but i seem to be more sexually aware and blunt and "crass" than the descriptions of IEEs.

Many IEEs are exactly like you describe yourself here. And all of the things you say here strongly suggests IEE as your correct type. There is really no good argument for EIE so far. You seem to be a typical leading type.

The search for happiness...each new "interest" I think is the "thing" that will make me happy, even socionics as I have been studying it. In the moments that I do let go and enjoy the moment, I am happy but they don't come naturally at all. I look kinda manic as I do that. The moments I have been truly happy were when I felt One with Spirit, an All is Well Peace and life was a moving, breathing meditation where everything was meaningful and meaningless at the same time. Where I could do, say, be whatever the hell I wanted and didn't give a shit what anyone else thought.

as a base function ... Isn't that now obvious to everyone?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

as a base function ... Isn't that now obvious to everyone?

I have to say I can't see what else it is. And her focus on helping those in need by emphasis on relations with people (helping their internal feelings and such) and ethical considerations on how people should be allowed to lead their lives and such seems much more than to me.

[strrrng]

she's an Ni-ENFj...loves the Se agenda

[Phaedrus]

she's an Ni-ENFj...loves the Se agenda

You don't seem to have any good argument for that claim. Especially since there is a perfect fit with ENFp in every respect -- quadra values, type descriptions, strong indications of leading , EP temperament ... What do you have to counter all that?

It's actually quite alarming to see that so many people don't want to suggest the most obvious type here, which without doubt is the ENFp. Why is that? Why do people try to force pieces that don't fit the desribed behaviours and attitudes into one of the two Beta NF types at all cost? Is everyone on this forum infected by the quadra typing disease? It looks more and more like that really is the cause of so many mistypings on this forum.

[cracka]

Kelly Jo... A name like that usually only works in The South... Throw in the spirituality aspect of your posts thus far and I'd say you're right smack in the heart of the bible belt. Close?

[dbmmama]

Hi again,

I'm finding it very interesting what each of you has to say... ...seeing how each gives an answer based on their own type and view.

I'm not from the south, Ohio originally. And I got that question a lot growing up. I like my name because it's "different." And for a while while I was heavily into doing spiritual healing/inner child regression work with moms, I changed my name to KJoy! which a lot of people had a problem with because I'm a pretty serious person in person. They thought I was the one being pretentious. And eventually I did too and went back to Kelly Jo.

As far as the Bible belt stuff, no, not a Bible thumper type. I'm more about new thought/new age/Ascension/LOA/quantum physics.

I agree that there are just too many things that are NOT ESE, even with me doing ESE things in my parenting, ie: extended nursing, cosleeping, babywearing, etc. BUT, those things I do not do for the immediate Si stuff but for my knowledge in the long term of their development and how those things help them emotionally on a deeper level.

One thing in my parenting that has been very important to me is not "talking down" to my children. I treat each with the same respect as I do anyone else. People who's voices "change" to talk to children bug the crap out of me. I hated when anyone did that to me when I was a child. I "knew" a lot of things about "the right" way to raise children and I "knew" a lot about why people acted the way they did. I hated that my knowledge was not respected because I was "just a kid." I talk with each of mine about almost everything. My children are intelligent, respectful, individuals that I am raising to think for themselves, not what society says to be and do, that follow their own interests on their own path. They know they can talk to their mom about anything and I will be honest and respectful of whatever they have to say about anything. I do not like sugarcoating the truth and so I expect the truth in return.

Thanks again everyone. I'm taking it in and seeing what "floats to the top."

Love,
Kelly Jo

[Mediator Kam]

I read this earlier. I sense valued Ni and Se, I feel ENFj easily.

[JRiddy]

dbmmama, welcome to the16types, where you will undoubtedly spend most of the remaining waking hours of your life. We will never agree on your type. There will never be any shortage of drama surrounding petty issues and differences in interpretation. We will bicker about what is petty and what is meaningful. And most of all, we will never give you any more insight into anything.

Hope you like it

Love,

Riddy

[dbmmama]

Riddy,

Now you've made the most sense to me thus far.

If I'm base function, then why not ILE?

Love,
Kelly Jo

[implied]

i think ENFj as well.

[JRiddy]

Riddy,

Now you've made the most sense to me thus far.

If I'm base function, then why not ILE?

Love,
Kelly Jo

I honestly don't think that typing people over the internet is all that meaningful. You are clearly outgoing, and it seems like you make use of to explain things, but i can't be totally sure. ILE and IEE are both good candidates, as IEEs sometimes seem to have a lot of when they are being expressive, even though they don't really value it. Keep on reading and learning to try to get a clearer picture.

And don't put too much stock in what any one person says.

[Park]

What's your opinion?

IEI or EIE-Ni.

[Steve]

beta NF....Ti/Fe is obviously there, and the way she described being spiritual struck me as Ni and she seemed to have a more aggressive quality about her, a controlled Se'ness



the crux of the enneagram 4 (most common for IxFp's)

so, I say Ni-INFp

lol yeah actually i think that could work - implied linked this thread in the chat, and when I read it, something reminded me of you. There's something very T-ish and introspective about the way she writes, which I think would fit with Ni INFp > Ni ENFj.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

lol yeah actually i think that could work - implied linked this thread in the chat, and when I read it, something reminded me of you. There's something very T-ish and introspective about the way she writes, which I think would fit with Ni INFp > Ni ENFj.

How bizarre. Isn't that was this thread is for - to chat about it?

I think we should also remember she said she can change her writing style, or something.

@thread creator, ultimately you've got to decide yourself..as no-one knows as much about you as you do. I'm somewhat skeptical of typing in this particular fashion, but hopefully some of it is of help .. And people often like to debate round here

[Phaedrus]

If I'm base function, then why not ILE?

That's a very good question. The things that suggest IEE rather than ILE have to do with your focus on people and to some extent how you express yourself. But I can't rule out ILE for sure. The only thing that is very obvious is that you are leading.

Those who believe that you are most likely EIE or IEE give no arguments for their claims, and they don't understand the types correctly. That there seem to be so many of them is a problem, because it proves that the general understanding of Socionics and the types is poor on this forum.

But let's stop this nonsense about ENFj now, please. It's embarrasing to have to listen to such crap.

[dbmmama]

I'm fine with debate...it gets you thinking in new ways...

Yes, I know I have to decide for myself. I thought some other perspectives may give me more food for thought and understanding in something I'm not seeing in myself right now.

So far lots of votes for IEI or EIE and a very adamant Ne base function vote.

Some other things...I have always been super sensitive, emotionally. I wasn't sure if that was because an F function was strong or weak. I'm not great at handling my emotions or others but I care deeply about them. I tend to handle them in spiritually energetic ways not physically or verbally. Outwardly I come across kinda severe, stern or harsh sometimes. At my best, I'm centered and calm.

I am not very imaginative, at least in my definition. Many of the things I know, see, etc., the metaphysical "things" are real, to me. I have never thought of them as imaginary. But a more "practical" person would.

I am also very physically coordinated and good at sports. I didn't play sports growing up. I'm not a good "team player." I was also so self conscious, still am but not as bad, of embarrassing myself and messing up that I couldn't have done it anyway. I'm better at individual things like tennis or "horse" with my kids or something with excellent hand/eye coordination. And I've always been very competitive.

Love,
Kelly Jo

[Phaedrus]

The ENFj hypothesis is forever ruled out as impossible, if you have provided a correct description of yourself. Almost everything points toward one of the NF types, and we know that you are an irrational type. So ENFp is the obvious suggestion, the most likely type, based on what you have said. There is a slight chance that you could be ENTp, but it doesn't seem to be the case. You could perhaps be an INFp instead of ENFp, but that is as far as it goes. If you are an INFp, I mistook your behaviour for leading when it was instead leading. Perhaps that's possible, but still not the most likely option based on what you have said so far.

Do you know if you are an introvert or an extravert? That question has a definite answer, and it isn't too hard to find if you investigate the problem seriously.

[dbmmama]

Phaedrus,

I appreciate your direct and confident appraisal. I tend to be that way with my own opinions and views on things as well. But with myself...and appraising myself....well...but with everything else I do not appreciate wishy washyness. Give it to me straight. I've always been a black/white person, right/wrong person, which to me says rational. What makes you say irrational? I've worked very hard to let go of some of that all or nothing thinking. Maybe I come across more open and flowy because I try very hard to be that way more since it's not natural.

And with the definitions on Rick's site, Extraversion fits more. With about half and half between rational and irrational.

Love,
Kelly Jo

[Kristiina]

Having read more posts, I agree that EIE-Ni subtype is the most likely type for you.

I do think I am different from you, but it is difficult to see any other type for you. Socionics isn't always based of people of the same type being similar. Type is more like a bunch of variants of people with some similar qualities. So there will be EIEs who are similar to me and there will be EIEs who are similar to you.

[Phaedrus]

I've always been a black/white person, right/wrong person, which to me says rational.

Which it shouldn't, because that is a totally incorrect assumption. People here tend to see me as a such a person too, and yet I am an ILI. And take Ayn Rand for example. She is an obvious example of the kind of person you have in mind, and she explicitly defends that kind of attitude too. But Rick has typed her as ILE, which I think is wrong, but it shows that you should not automatically assume that a person is a rational type, just because the person thinks in terms of right and wrong or black and white. That is a total misconception on what constitutes a type, even though it seems to be a very popular misconception on this forum.

What makes you say irrational?

Your own described behiour. It is strikingly irrational in every respect. You simply cannot be a rational type if you are not a liar. It is a proven fact that you are an irrational type.

I've worked very hard to let go of some of that all or nothing thinking.

Rand is certainly not an IEI, and neither am I, but it is said in some type descriptions that IEIs can have that tendency. But the IEI is of course not the only type that can have such attitudes.

Maybe I come across more open and flowy because I try very hard to be that way more since it's not natural.

What exactly is your natural behaviour then?

And with the definitions on Rick's site, Extraversion fits more.

Look at some more sites, for example the quote I posted in this thread (#168):

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=17714&page=17

That thread is actually very interesting for you to read from page one and to the end, because I was right about thePirate's type right from the start, despite people's attempts to confuse things by suggesting ENFj and other types. Compare yourself with thePirate, and see what you can make of it.

[dbmmama]

Kristiina,

Thanks for your opinion...I do agree there may be something different between us because there is. but I feel it's slight, whether it's type or not, yes it's there.

Love,
Kelly Jo

[Creepy-Cyclops]

One last thing before you decide,

http://www.socionics.com/articles/phenomenon.html

How do you think this relates to you? ie specifically the J-in' and the P-in' ?

[Phaedrus]

Kristiina, I think you make a very important point here.

But everyone agrees with it. It is a trivial remark.

[dbmmama]

Phaedrus,

I hear what you're saying about some irrationals being black and white thinkers. But, I'm not totally convinced.

What IS my natural behavior? Good question. That's what's confusing to me. I can act, be, think in many different ways, many of which seem to be contradictory in socionics. So, to figure out my type has been hard.

I am physically very strong and have prided myself on that fact since I was little. But, I believe I am because I am emotionally weak and impulsive. I had a mom that didn't "help" me with my emotional outbursts and vowed from the time I was little to figure out how people tick on all levels so I could help them on that emotional level. Since I'm not good with emotions myself, I went into metaphysical things to do it, ie: chakra healing, spiritual healing, psychic regression and angel therapy and also studied human development and psychology, anything I could get my hands on, Si things, Ni things, Se things when necessary, Ne things...

I think my natural inclination is Se first but I know how it feels to be forced to do and be what you don't want to and so I push that down and draw from other areas of knowledge. People who force their children to do things that they are not interested in piss me off, especially if they do it physically. In the moments I am not diligently aware, I do it and hate it. I go from one extreme to the other sometimes.

I am much more effective (in all areas of my life) when I've been meditating more regularly and coming from a centered place within.

When I've worked with others in manifesting their desires, I help them with both the theory of doing it and then getting them to do it. I am objective in my observations of what's going on with them and then I let them decide which direction feels right to them. I'm not good at giving practical advice with any "do this and then do this and then do this" sort of thing. I'm better at seeing the meaning behind their situation and then encouraging them to take action that will ultimately help them get what they want.

Meaning without action is pointless. Action without meaning is primal. We need both to actualize our highest desires and potential. So, let's get off our butts, get moving and take some action on what our inner guidance is telling us to do. I believe our own answers are within, we just need to take the actions it's telling us to do.

Which type believes in us creating our own realities based on thoughts, feelings, actions, attitudes, behaviors, etc......? and is definitely more about the individual than social consciousness?

Love,
Kelly Jo

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Everyone agrees with it but disregards it at the same time, we should take it more seriously because it's actually far from trivial.

thats true.

[JuJu]

One last thing before you decide,

http://www.socionics.com/articles/phenomenon.html

How do you think this relates to you? ie specifically the J-in' and the P-in' ?

the J-in' and the P-in' Cyclops man, your posts never fail to make me lol

That's a great article by Ganin btw... At my last job, "j-in' " was appreciated, so I was "j-in' " at first, but before long, I was a-"p-in', " much to everyone's disgust... I can't help it baby! That's how I is.

Phaedrus, good on thePirate--you called that one for sure.

[strrrng]

dbmmama, don't read rick's site or type yourself based off of dichotomies

everything she's describing about inner calm and spirituality has such an Ni feel to it...Ni-EIE...the main focus would be on that function, which is why she has expressed a need to feel that inner spiritual sanctity...also, her aggressiveness...she described emotional outbursts....among other things like being temperamental, the Fe-Se object focus seems like it's there

Ni-EIE

[Creepy-Cyclops]

hey dmmmama, not looking to get off beaten track here, just k-U-ri-us

dbmmama, don't read rick's site or type yourself based off of dichotomies

Why then are socionics tests built out of dichotomies? (oh yeah..and eh, lbnl ricks site?)

everything she's describing about inner calm and spirituality has such an Ni feel to it...Ni-EIE...the main focus would be on that function, which is why she has expressed a need to feel that inner spiritual sanctity...also, her aggressiveness...she described emotional outbursts....among other things like being temperamental, the Fe-Se object focus seems like it's there

I think this sort of thing is really interesting, as I didn't get that sort of vibe, also, what you are describing..inner calm and such, sounds a bit like Si to me. Ni is more about spotting patterns and predictions.

PS Im not looking to get into a big debate but i'd be interested if you could respond so that I can have a read of it, thanks.