SEI/ISFp bashin' time

[Revan]

So I've noticed that every SEI description I've read has been overly positive, imo. Now don't get me wrong, SEIs are and can be wonderful individuals, but let's not forget that we all have a "shadow," as Jung suggested. I've been semi-successfully prodding at a SEI that I know for some time attempting to get some sort of information regarding his inner experiences, particularly what he feels to be his weaknesses or shortcomings. However, as some people may know, getting objective information from a SEI is like pulling teeth...

So now is your time to voice your anecdotes, opinions, complaints, theories, etc. What do you think/feel are the negative aspects of them? I'm hoping to be able to have a comprehensive perspective of the elusive SEI, rather than the biased descriptions.

I can add in my own experiences later if need be!

[Esaman]

I'd say that if you need to prod to find a weakness it is not much of a weakness.
SEI's in here are too unconfrontational and self critical to criticize. Is that in itself a bad thing? Nah.
I guess we need ILIs and LIEs for the opposite bias.

[PistolShrimp]

My mom is the only person I know who I am sure is SEI, so I don't know how many of these things are SEI things and how many are just "Mom things." Here are some negatives I've experienced and observed.

-passive-aggressive
-prone to guilt-tripping
-lazy
-oblivious/in their own little world- drives 10 mph under the speed limit and wonders why people are honking at her
-has serious trouble telling people "no"
-touchy/overly-sensitive/thin-skinned
-stubborn
-extreme preference for familiar foods, music, vacation spots etc...rarely shakes things up on her own (needs dat ? )
-retreats from negative experiences into hedonistic activities instead of addressing the problems directly

[Pookie]

They bake sweet delicious treats all the time. God, they're just the worst.

[Aylen]

They bake sweet delicious treats all the time. God, they're just the worst.

Not only do they bake them, they also want to share them with you! In fact they want to share everything. It's like they just "know" I wanted that cookie and soft blanket. I didn't even have to ask and don't get me started on offering to let me sleep in the big comfy bed with them instead of the couch... arrgh!

Seriously, I really like the self typed SEI on this forum, like @lemontrees and @bg (not sure how strongly he feels about his SEI-ness). Not a lot of experience with them irl since we tend to hang in different circles but when I find one I wanna put them in my pocket and keep them with me.

[lemontrees]

I would say that everything @PistolShrimp listed is true of me to varying extents

EDIT: btw I can't bake

[Reficulris]

The SEI's look at the thread topic and think "Can't touch this"

SEI's are cute and fun, don't try to make them into into IEI's, SEI's are the "good" mythological spirits while IEI's are the "naughty" ones

[Aylen]

EDIT: btw I can't bake

I knew they were bakery bought! Was that soft blanket even 100% Egyptian cotton???

[lemontrees]

I knew they were bakery bought! Was that soft blanket even 100% Egyptian cotton???

it was only about 35%

but i figured those with weaker Si wouldn't be able to tell the difference

[willekeurig]

Well, their Te polr can be stressful sometimes. Like when you're having a dinner party and have to constantly worry about them placing your parents' super expensive crystal wine glasses on the edge of a table so they're in danger of falling. They'll be sincerely sorry and move if when you tell them, but then do it again in 10 minutes. At least the two SEIs that have been to my dinner parties..

One of them also once almost broke my backbone, or so it felt. I was lying on my stomach and they jumped on my back as a prank.

[The Exception]

I knew they were bakery bought! Was that soft blanket even 100% Egyptian cotton???

it was only about 35%

but i figured those with weaker Si wouldn't be able to tell the difference

I don't even know what Egyptian cotton is. How it differs from the cotton I regularly buy in the store. Or if there even is a difference and if the difference matters.

Well, their Te polr can be stressful sometimes. Like when you're having a dinner party and have to constantly worry about them placing your parents' super expensive crystal wine glasses to the edge of a table so they're in danger of falling. They'll be sincerely sorry and move if when you tell them, but then do it again in 10 minutes. At least the two SEIs that have been to my dinner parties..

One of them also once almost broke my backbone, or so it felt. I was lying on my stomach and they jumped on my back as a prank.

That sounds more like weak sensing to me.

[willekeurig]

That sounds more like weak sensing to me.

It might play a role that said SEIs were drunk during all of these occasions, though they do tend to break stuff even when sober. I can assure you they're both SEIs. Very stereotypical alpha caregivers, "let's smoke weed and then I'll feed you cookies and then we'll talk about how awesome it feels to eat cookies while high"-type of people!

[Ver]

SEI seem to be the sweetest type ever. Caring, loving, beautiful, graceful, gentle, fun.
When my ISFp grandmother was sick and had to go to the hospital, she cut newspaper parts with jokes to read them to other women she shared a hospital room with. Whenever I was down, she made me read them too - that's how I found out about it.
If I have to think of something...
* they are not really good with money.
* My ISTj aunt told me a few days ago that my grandmother is always neutral and according to her it's not a good thing (to be she's a peacemaker but I'm trying to think of something)
* male ISFp aren't masculine enough for me - or it's just lack of Te (but is it a bad trait????)

Honestly, nothing else comes to my mind.
They seem to be perfect people.

[Aylen]

I don't even know what Egyptian cotton is. How it differs from the cotton I regularly buy in the store. Or if there even is a difference and if the difference matters.

Even with weak Si once I slept on them it was hard to go back to just any sheets. It is hard to be oblivious when I am lying on them because every now and then when I am in bed, surrounded by electronics, I just run my hand over them and smile. Working my way up to silk. I'll let Martha explain it...

http://www.marthastewart.com/270671/...-cotton-sheets

[Iris]

They make my world a better place with their kind and perceiving ways. I am in awe of them.

[xerx]

IME, they can take things too personally when they're in leadership positions like, say, teaching, and have to handle unruly students. They can get bated into the drama and end up fighting with individual students. The students are, in any case, just pushing the right buttons, especially the Beta NFs.

SEI teachers who can project a light-hearted and carefree personality are universally liked, but it takes skill to stay at that level if the subject is too hard or too boring.

I've loved all my SEI teachers, but their teaching style was definitely more suited towards students who wanted to be there. I've only had male SEI teachers, fwiw.


P.S. the ultra-serious, ultra-rational subtype of INTjs are probably the best Alphas at handling these types of situations.

[mikemex]

If Gammas are among the most politically active and socially involved in the world, SEIs are probably the #1 type for not going out of their way to make a profound difference in someone else's life.

It's so weird. Engels was a SEI and he was overly concerned about social issues, devoted even.

[Ver]

One more thing came to my mind
My SEI uncle is bad with money and - with business, although he's a very intelligent person - knows a lot about the world, is gifted in science, very crafty. He's so good and naive that he just lets other people abuse it. E.g. he sold tills to one shop owner, and the tills were blocked after one moth. The reasoning behind it - if the person had already paid, he would have unblocked it. What he did was... the shop owner called him and said he couldn't use the tills so he just unblocked it, although he knew the person hadn't paid. There are many situations like this one, people owe him money for ages... It annoys the hell out of my INTp dad who runs the company with him.

[willekeurig]

IME, they can take things too personally when they're in leadership positions like, say, teaching, and have to handle unruly students. They can get bated into the drama and end up fighting with individual students. The students are, in any case, just pushing the right buttons, especially the Beta NFs.

SEI teachers who can project a light-hearted and carefree personality are universally liked, but it takes skill to stay at that level if the subject is too hard or too boring.

I've loved all my SEI teachers, but their teaching style was definitely more suited towards students who wanted to be there. I've only had male SEI teachers, fwiw.

I had a SEI swedish teacher in secondary school (ages 13-15). Her classes were always really nice, she'd have us watch Disney movies in Swedish and every time we understood a supposedly difficult word we'd get sweets. Sometimes we played computer "games" where you fill in missing words and would also get sweets whenever we got it right. She made the oh-so-hated subject much more tolerable, but I don't think anyone learned much. It's not like we cared at that time, but she was absolutely terrible at teaching grammar.

[golden]

I can think of lots of great things. Negatives. A few atm ....

Flaky / late

No sense of time = money bc come on, sometimes it actually does, like when you're working

Moving from treat to treat

The ones I know best have addictions I can't share in, and the addictions really dominate their lives

Impractical

Stuffing away their pain -- while smiling on the outside

Not saying specifically what they need and then suffering bc they don't get what they need

Maybe that's specific to my particular SEI friends, or to how I relate to them.

[Words]

Hmmm, i've known an SEI who was by mainstream accounts lazy, but he was good fun and caring and amusing talking about his girlfriend problems and this girl he couldn't get on with but liked (She was ESI)

He couldn't cook at all and worked in a kitchen in a restaurant haha.

Don't know if this is a weakness(es) though, it's just a thing with this person, I enjoyed his company.

[Revan]

First of all thanks for the responses, they've been helpful! I agree with most of the responses. I find it interesting that most people even find it difficult to speak of the negatives regarding SEIs. I will admit that many, if not all, SEIs give the impression of a sweet, kind, caring, and even perfect person. But having extended contact with many SEIs has led me to believe that those traits are mostly a facade, or persona.

In my experiences, SEIs mostly are concerned with their own desires. Hedonist is a perfect description. The SEIs I've known, both subtypes, primarily want to be relaxed and carefree. They will get very upset if anyone brings negativity into their life. However, they are not opposed to venting negativity to people they are close to. They do not react well to being pressured to do things that they don't want to (Se ignoring) and they especially cannot take direct criticism. I find many SEIs to be incredibly self-absorbed, in that they care for themselves first and then others. Even the Fe subtypes mostly want to socialize because they desire the experience, not so much to benefit the other. I feel like so much depends on their mood too. If they're happy they enjoy taking care of others. If not, they want to be taken care of, but don't think they will tell you this. They internalize so much. If they even slightly sense that you are being mean to them or are unhappy with them they will become very upset. Even if this is imagined or has nothing to do with them.

I definitely agree about the passive aggression! My one SEI friend would try to cheat on his girlfriend whenever they would get into a major fight. He says he actually never acted on it, but who knows. If they feel that you have wronged them, they will not apologize and will certainly guilt trip you, saying your behavior condoned their response/actions. With time, they can be appeased with jokes and/or food though. And believe me, they can get very irritated if you try to prod too much into their private life. Very averse to negativity and any type of possible association with them and a negative trait or event. That's all I got for now! P.S. I have a few SEIs in my family and close friends.

Edit: Something that just came to mind: Maybe SEIs are so averse to negativity that they try very hard to produce a positive impression so that no one has any negative thoughts or feelings about them. Hmmm

[golden]

I dunno, I was at dinner with an SEI and she flat-out admitted that she puts on a facade. She said it's sincere, in that it's got to do with just wanting everyone to feel good. She said that people will think she's really friendly and outgoing when actually she's introverted and all she wants to do is go home and sleep.

She's 30.

[Reficulris]

I dunno, I was at dinner with an SEI and she flat-out admitted that she puts on a facade. She said it's sincere, in that it's got to do with just wanting everyone to feel good. She said that people will think she's really friendly and outgoing when actually she's introverted and all she wants to do is go home and sleep.

She's 30.

yeah, that's IS horrible... SEIS SUCK! KILL EM ALLL!!!!













this thread is absurd.... it's like hating on giraffe's!

[ConcreteButterfly]

moody, passive aggressive, takes things personally which aren't personal. expects everyone to like them. will put up with ethical lapses by others and then punish by withdrawing attention. unable to admit when they don't know something, will lie or avoid the subject. intellectually lazy, easily brainwashed by other people's logic. hedonistic. no real sense of time, but pretends to be foresighted. secretly pessimistic. also prideful in a covert sort of way, unlike ILEs.

[Ordinary]

i am very bad at being objective.. haha. i am reminded of a time when i was in a hit & run car accident... after the police arrived to ask questions, i could say nothing but "the car was huge, the noise was so loud and i didn't feel myself screaming," all quotes about my subjective experience. and he told me he needed the color or the vehicle, person driving. i couldn't until hours later.

[Aylen]

yeah, that's IS horrible... SEIS SUCK! KILL EM ALLL!!!!

You got pics/videos to back this up????

[Beautiful sky]

I love my SEI nephew so much. Lord knows when I or anyone cries around him he remains attentive and he comes back with, "why didn't you tell me, I'll kick his ass [gets up and kicks around with his legs] like this and this!" And the compassion that pours out of him and my SEI friend too is very much like this. I love them so much. I know this doesn't help your cause, I've had trouble with duals too believe me I've had my fair share and I've cried for years and years. I'm great now.

Most SEI are wonderful but the ones who think they are EII I just want to shoot myself when I read that.

[Skepsis]

Who could bash SEIs? Honestly? They're such a pleasure to converse with.

[Revan]

moody, passive aggressive, takes things personally which aren't personal. expects everyone to like them. will put up with ethical lapses by others and then punish by withdrawing attention. unable to admit when they don't know something, will lie or avoid the subject. intellectually lazy, easily brainwashed by other people's logic. hedonistic. no real sense of time, but pretends to be foresighted. secretly pessimistic. also prideful in a covert sort of way, unlike ILEs.

I also get a strange subtle impression of pride and even occasional superiority from my friend. Like an opportunistic pat on the back when he feels he was more clever than someone else. The intense privateness is also weird. I feel as though I have no idea what he is ever thinking. Or perhaps he just isn't thinking lol Being so cerebral I have a difficult time believing that anyone could be so..empty-headed, for lack of better word. The withdrawing of attention is odd too. It's like SEIs somehow know what pisses people off and they can do these things without you even realizing they're doing it! I definitely feel like there's so much more than meets the eye. Sneaky snakes!

[Lotus]

ALL SLUTS

[Radio]

moody, passive aggressive, takes things personally which aren't personal. expects everyone to like them. will put up with ethical lapses by others and then punish by withdrawing attention. unable to admit when they don't know something, will lie or avoid the subject. intellectually lazy, easily brainwashed by other people's logic. hedonistic. no real sense of time, but pretends to be foresighted. secretly pessimistic. also prideful in a covert sort of way, unlike ILEs.

most of this is spot-on IME.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

SEI sweetness is a deception. It's a facade, like a lot of forum members' heterosexuality.

I honestly don't know why people trust sweetness so much. Usually, it's just a very good tactic to manipulate you in letting your guard down so the manipulator can get what they want. And people kind of naively go 'aww they're so cute and shy, like Fluttershy from MLP.' Idiots. It will not hurt less if I shoot you in the chest then if a hateful and arrogant straight male bully did it. You wouldn't expect it and would probably shock you more.

[Revan]

They are not quite empty headed, they simply focus on other areas of cognition. Areas that people like you and I cannot even begin to imagine (unless we smoke a joint or something similar).

Today I read a blog (not related to Socionics) that lead to a small epiphany: the blog explained about the linear experience of time of modern Western people versus the cyclical experience of time of medieval Western people. It was then that I realized that introverted sensors (and perhaps sensors in general) might have a natural inclination towards a cyclical experience of time. Their attitude towards dealing with time makes a lot more sense to me now.

FWIW, I have never experienced withdrawal of attention by SEIs myself. But that might also be because I myself am a master of withdrawal of attention. You can't beat me at my own game.

You bring up good points here. I have always felt that when I'm high I go into a weird Si or Ni trance All drugs aside, I feel like Si is such a difficult function to comprehend. I know it is an irrational function and doesn't assess information, but I just can't help but wonder what the subjective experience of an Si ego is like. The different conceptions of time is very interesting! I never really put much thought into it. It may be than an Si ego's preferred or natural way of perceiving time is cyclical, but my SEI friend is neurotic about being on time. He will get angry if he is late anywhere. Especially if someone else, such as myself, is the cause of the tardiness. Most likely has to do with Ni role function. He also spends an inordinate amount of time studying for tests and such. But he can also just as easily squander hours on a video game. SEIs get increasingly bizarre the more I think about them. A bit hypocritical and contradictory at times as well.

[Revan]

ALL SLUTS

Care to elaborate?

[Lotus]

yeah i'd love to kill the joke by elaborating

[IBTL]

most of this is spot-on IME.

agreed (minus the hedonistic part since that's Se)

[Flaxe]

Interesting.
Many of the traits mentioned in this thread, I tend to attribute to cultural indoctrination, upbringing and personal development, rather than to the type traits.
I know SEIs who are both extremely yielding and those who are extremely set in their ways.
I know SEIs who are chemical engineers, and I know SEIs who are helplessly incapable of doing any math beyond basic arithmetic.
I know SEIs who are extremely negative, as well as those who are extremely positive. (Although the negativist form of cognition does shine through as they always present what's not going to work.)
(Any function can be developed, as long as you are aware of the limitations. Eg. weak functions can be strengthened with exposure/experience.)


Although this might be somewhat biased due to me being ILE, I see them kind of like cats.
They can be seen as self-serving/self-caring. Yup, hedonistic definitely fits the bill.
They create a cosy atmosphere wherever they are and able to look after most physical needs. (I yet have to meet an SF who doesn't do awesome sex, aesthetically pleasing moves/dancing or provide great massages.)
No inherent sense of finance/business (But as stated earlier, it is something that can be developed.)
...and I'm gonna put "slutty" here. As what society perceives. (What I actually mean is: "SI, hellooooooo!"....and that they often go from relationship to relationship and very rarely are found alone for longer periods of time.)


--Flax

[Suz]

...and I'm gonna put "slutty" here. As what society perceives. (What I actually mean is: "SI, hellooooooo!"....and that they often go from relationship to relationship and very rarely are found alone for longer periods of time.)


--Flax

I'm not totally sure if you're trolling with your post or not (since you are one of the forum's greatest trolls and all ), but I just want to point out that going from relationship to relationship does not make somebody "slutty". Additionally, relationships do not have to be sexual (this is in part mediated by NTR things)

And as I mentioned in another thread recently, sluttiness itself (the real thing, not what you mentioned) is also influenced by a multitude of NTR factors. People of any type can be slutty, or not slutty.

You guys can feel free to continue deluding yourselves on that... wont help with mistypings, though.

[Suz]

their teaching style was definitely more suited towards students who wanted to be there.

In a teaching role, I DEFINITELY resonate with this. My one and only expectation for students is that they be interested in learning and work with care (i.e. do their work like they sincerely care about it). If they meet those expectations, I'm pretty generous with grades (honors, A+ for everyone!!!). I tell them so at the outset, which hopefully diffuses any pressure/stress about grades and showing off to me, and it really does turn into a fun experience. I like to make it an atmosphere where they can feel comfortable expressing that they dont know something, instead of trying to fake it out of fear of being judged or graded lower. Not knowing something is just another opportunity to learn!!

However, if someone obviously doesn't care, and not interested in learning, I get realllly annoyed and I'm not as interested in teaching them. I will try to pique their interest though, but after a while it's useless. Fail for them!! (j/k... they'd probably get like an average grade or something, dont wanna fail anybody...)