Sociotype and the "work hard, play hard" philosophy

[Nevero]

are there any types that are likely to live by this philosophy? what's your take on this motto?

[Amber]

Gamma and Beta {unless the Beta is an unhealthy type like that dude called DJArendee and cannot hold a job for more than one month due to ADHD or whatever else}

[Reficulris]

Beta's fit the motto the best with a slight focus on play hard

Gamma's fit the motto good to with more focus on work hard

Delta's don't play

Alpha's don't work

[Amber]

Apart from my personal experience with people ... I recall they spoke of some Quadra themes that correlated Beta with achievement and indulgence and Gamma with acquisition and compensation. I can see it in broad lines. I would say Gamma is more focused on productivity and saving money and Beta a bit more on social position. But ironically I have heard members of both quadras claim they work for a good life, they do not live for work. Ironically because those members were LSI and LIE which I think are the most work-oriented types. The most prone to become workaholics imo.

[FDG]

Philosophy, or behavior? I don't like that philosophy, but my behavior fits the definition.

I don't like it as a phylosophy because it's an energy-intensive one, and since energy in our planet is very much limited, it's not long-term sustainable. Nevertheless, my natural way of being is fairly "energivorous" so may be perceived as following that kind of lifestyle.

[ashlesha]

decisiveness. (ni/se)

[suedehead]

Ideally, I'd like my life would play out that way, somewhat, or at least having the sense that I'm putting my time to good use. It's arguably when I feel my best, sometimes. But whenever I actually try to implement it, either (physical) fatigue sets in, or it seems strenuous, or like I'm doing a bunch of things that aren't really objectively necessary for the time-being and would be better off leaving for the next day if I plan on making the most out of it.

[blackburry]

I like to procrastinate.

[Iris]

That statement is really true for the one LSI that I have actually typed. He is very driven about working and also playing. I think that is very true of Beta ST and SP. I have a little trouble playing, myself. But I work very hard.

I think Gammas also work and play hard, but with their unvalued Fe, there appears to be less gusto than with Betas. My SEE friends work hard, but deep down, they'd rather be playing.

[FDG]

So gay

u wish

[Aylen]

Ideally, I'd like my life would play out that way, somewhat, or at least having the sense that I'm putting my time to good use. It's arguably when I feel my best, sometimes. But whenever I actually try to implement it, either (physical) fatigue sets in, or it seems strenuous, or like I'm doing a bunch of things that aren't really objectively necessary for the time-being and would be better off leaving for the next day if I plan on making the most out of it.

The hardest work I ever had to do was on myself. The rest seems easy in comparison. You're doing your own hard work now...you don't have to be so hard on yourself. I wish someone had told me that.

[gabrielle]

are there any types that are likely to live by this philosophy? what's your take on this motto?

I'd say it defines my life style. For me it's also that I'm an Enneagram 3, so going 'with the flow' is not something I know how to do, naturally. My leisure time is even pretty gungho. I'm learning to let things just be lazy though. Maybe. Not really.

Both my husband and I are Betas and so is a good friend couple that we do a lot of recreational stuff with. At least, of all the people I know, they are the only ones I type so far as the most obvious types and Quadra. We tend to be the 'always occupied doing something' types.

[silke]

Usually it's the EJs who have the energy and the drive to maintain that kind of lifestyle.

EIEs and LIEs often have above average activity levels due to their pronounced dislike of homeostasis, which has been attributed in some other threads to Si-PoLR.

ESEs and LSEs - I've seen a few workaholics among these types, that's why I wouldn't attribute this to Ni/Se quadra considering how many hard-working people of judicious types are out there.

Next I'd place the introverted rational sensing types: LSI and ESI. I've noticed from discussions on russian socionics froums that EIEs and LIEs who marry other intuitive types tend to complain about them 'not doing enough' to keep things together. Sounds like they are expecting a dual who untiring and productive in manner of strong sensing.

EPs usually wax and wane in their activity levels. There are a couple SLE and ILE 3s I've met who could be described by this motto, but not really.

[Kim]

What does it mean to *work hard* and *play hard*?

[Amber]

Usually it's the EJs who have the energy and the drive to maintain that kind of lifestyle.

EIEs and LIEs often have above average activity levels due to their pronounced dislike of homeostasis, which has been attributed in some other threads to Si-PoLR.

ESEs and LSEs - I've seen a few workaholics among these types, that's why I wouldn't attribute this to Ni/Se quadra considering how many hard-working people of judicious types are out there.

Next I'd place the introverted rational sensing types: LSI and ESI. I've noticed from discussions on russian socionics froums that EIEs and LIEs who marry other intuitive types tend to complain about them 'not doing enough' to keep things together. Sounds like they are expecting a dual who untiring and productive in manner of strong sensing.

EPs usually wax and wane in their activity levels. There are a couple SLE and ILE 3s I've met who could be described by this motto, but not really.

yes, because the mind of the EJ is usually set on "doing something" mode. I don't know much about EIE, again, but I've noticed in an ESE girl I knew that for her that also took the form of just talking, vividly engaging in an activity that may have just demanded emotional involvement. In any case she wasn't the type to just sit quietly and meditate, I could tell she disliked inactivity. So yes, I can see the socionics formulation "inclined to fidget if they have to sit still and do nothing for a longer while". When it comes to LIE, I'll just go by my father's example. I'm not talking of the over 10 hours/day he still spends at work. But I'm sure after he retires he will hardly be able to just lie in an armchair and think of our galaxy or just watch TV. I can already picture him: he will start fidgeting, he will have to mentally DO something, at least reading, if not actually start fixing things that don't actually need fixing in the house.

As for the rational introverted sensing types, I agree that ESI is also known to be active due to Se. My grandmother was ESI-Se and she lived on the countryside. It was her who was always in control of what was going on on her property. It was also her always pushing my Si-subtype SEI or SLI grandfather to do stuff around. It really got funny at some point and when I grew up a bit I was wondering if that's not some 'ritual' between them and when she nags him she maybe means something else. He liked rest too much in her opinion. So haha, she was probably only looking for her LIE, no other hidden agenda there.

EPs - they can have their moments when they get stuff done or at least moving, but I wouldn't rely much on them. Just as an example, a SLE guy I went out with a few years ago would get bored with anything he'd start doing. He was SLE E7 and he was a physicist of some sort. Even when he had to present something to a group about the experiments he was working on, he'd get bored and want out after a while. I mean literally. He would literally push the situation and rush people who wanted to ask him questions, because he couldn't take it anymore. He was like that in many life departments. For me hanging out with him meant some sort of nice activation in the beginning (due to the presence of Se, it was so objectively psychological that it hurt), but boredom and too much passivity when I actually had to build a dialogue and keep it going. Imo he was way too focused on sensation (by that I mean any elements of novelty, he had to switch pubs and restaurants a lot or else he got bored), not speaking, language, understanding, explaining, debating. I could hardly find stuff to actually discuss and exchange opinions about, it looked as if he didn't have many. He was SLE-Se. I'm not Ni subtype, so maybe it was about some J/P tension ...if not mere value incompatibility.

[ashlesha]

What does it mean to *work hard* and *play hard*?

whenever i hear the phrase it reminds me of when i came to work after almost no sleep after getting drunk at a strip club with my beta bosses and the sle walking by and making a big thing of what a trooper i was, lol. i think its about experiencing things to the full with a disregard for Si. now i'm also thinking about my sli ex reacting to my trying to get him to help keep the house clean by always saying how it could be done later and doesn't really matter in the scheme of things.

i can definitely be lazy, and procrastinate, and its not something i always live by, but i'd say i value it.

[Nevero]

What does it mean to *work hard* and *play hard*?

it means to put your best effort into both your work and your relaxation activities, to do both with energy and enthusiasm and give it your most, to do everything being completely and totally engaged at high level of intensity and concetration, to never let up, to go out every day (or be ready to) and spend your time at high energy activities. the guy who i'm basing this description on would work 10-12 hours a day not because he has to but because he wants to, then go out for a night out in town dancing, attend all social events, does something every weekend, plays sports, has a large social circle. has the energy and motivation to take it all from life.

an opposite atittude would be: (i'm basing this one someone i know to contrast them to the first person)
- to invest very little of yourself into what you're doing, to procrastinate, to "play" and distract yourself while you're working, to be feel down and aimless, to spend your relaxation time on low energy activities such as watching tv or browsing the web with your butt glued to the chair, to avoid going out, to avoid strenuous activities that would make you exert yourself like sports, to prefer low stress jobs that don't demand much of you, to live on unemployment benefits without any good reasons for it.

whenever i hear the phrase it reminds me of when i came to work after almost no sleep after getting drunk at a strip club with my beta bosses and the sle walking by and making a big thing of what a trooper i was, lol. i think its about experiencing things to the full with a disregard for Si. now i'm also thinking about my sli ex reacting to my trying to get him to help keep the house clean by always saying how it could be done later and doesn't really matter in the scheme of things.

i can definitely be lazy, and procrastinate, and its not something i always live by, but i'd say i value it.

that would turn my whole dorm floor and most of my coworkers into sles and sees. we'd go out for a night in town, come back late completely wasted, wake up early next morning and race for the showers to get to the morning lecture or work for those of us who studied and worked. this isn't quite what i had in mind.

[ashlesha]

in that case i'd include Ni/Se, extroversion, and sensing to describe the philosophy. but it also sounds Si creative.

[Kim]

Is this about looking like you are working hard and getting things done or about people who actually produce end results? Because my work style will look erratic and unfocused, but I am pretty productive. Maybe all those supposedly hard-working people are just slow and inefficient. I would be interested in output rather than work style, but that is a different topic, so continue.

[Galen]

I assume the phrase means engaging yourself fully in all endeavors, whether they be leisurely or productive.

I've never thought of myself as a "hard worker" per se; I'm largely driven by compulsion and interest in the subject, not some abstract notion of work ethic.

[FDG]

has the energy and motivation to take it all from life.

iow cocaine

[ConcreteButterfly]

are there any types that are likely to live by this philosophy? what's your take on this motto?

LSIs come to mind. Betas in general seem to separate work from play quite strongly.

[strangeling]

Whenever I hear that phrase, I usually get images of an American asshole that overworks himself and other people because he doesn't know how to relax. But he believes he's the shit and thinks everyone is lazy or just needs to work harder at everything to enjoy life and/or get what they want. So "Work hard, play hard" ends up being their slogan for a perception of laziness and failure/inadequacy as coming from those that 'take it easy' or 'pace themselves'.

I'd much rather "work smart, play more". But I guess that wouldn't make most people feel like they are doing what they should be.

[ClownsandEntropy]

Just interviewed for a firm which claimed this was one of their values (in essence- won't specify the actual motto because I don't want to you know who I am). Would be interesting to compare to large company's "values" and the general culture in their offices.

[Contra]

I'm ILI, we don't know how to play. That's SEEs job.

[jason_m]

Beta's fit the motto the best with a slight focus on play hard

Gamma's fit the motto good to with more focus on work hard

Delta's don't play

Alpha's don't work

Betas: Work hard, play harder.

Gammas: Play hard, work harder.

Deltas: All work and no play makes jack a dull boy .

Alphas: Work is play...

[Suz]

Betas: Work hard, play harder.

Gammas: Play hard, work harder.

Deltas: All work and no play makes jack a dull boy .

Alphas: Work is play...

Well, speaking for myself... I play while i work (e.g. I watch a show or a movie while writing something), so my work takes forever and thus i feel like i'm always working. I know it's wrong but at least i fight off boredom in the process, and I look forward to "working" because i get to watch a movie!

[jason_m]

I could think of something similar with rules:

Alpha: bend the rules, but don't break them.

Gamma: break the rules, but don't bend them.

Delta: don't bend or break the rules.

Beta: break and bend them.

[Suz]

I could think of something similar with rules:

Alpha: bend the rules, but don't break them.

Gamma: break the rules, but don't bend them.

Delta: don't bend or break the rules.

Beta: break and bend them.

sorry i dont really like these generalizations. I think they are totally off the mark.

I think each quadra is capable of bending/breaking rules, it depends on what value is being targeted by the rule.

[JWC3]

I could think of something similar with rules:

Alpha: bend the rules, but don't break them.

Gamma: break the rules, but don't bend them.

Delta: don't bend or break the rules.

Beta: break and bend them.

I would go something like

Alpha - Expand/Clarify the rules until everyone is satisfied

Gamma - Break rules that are hopelessly inefficient, pointless, or senseless

Delta - Follow individuality rather than rules

Beta - Impose the rules, usurp the rules with different rules.

[jason_m]

sorry i dont really like these generalizations. I think they are totally off the mark.

I think each quadra is capable of bending/breaking rules, it depends on what value is being targeted by the rule.

As if something like this is not just a simplification, and should be considered airtight...

[Amber]

I would go something like

Alpha - Expand/Clarify the rules until everyone is satisfied

Gamma - Break rules that are hopelessly inefficient, pointless, or senseless

Delta - Follow individuality rather than rules

Beta - Impose the rules, usurp the rules with different rules.

Alpha: Expand on the rules or analyze them without actually taking them seriously
Beta: Set or change the rules (sometimes for personal power reasons)
Gamma: Prune the rules and strictly follow the necessary ones
Delta: Value individuality and tradition, but don't really perceive them as rules

[JWC3]

Alpha: Expand on the rules or analyze them without actually taking them seriously
Beta: Set or change the rules (sometimes for personal power reasons)
Gamma: Prune the rules and strictly follow the necessary ones
Delta: Value individuality and tradition, but don't really perceive them as rules

Essentially, yes. I think we are talking about the same quadras.

[Suz]

As if something like this is not just a simplification, and should be considered airtight...

well it's more than that... i think it's flat out wrong.

[Suz]

I would go something like

Alpha - Expand/Clarify the rules until everyone is satisfied

Gamma - Break rules that are hopelessly inefficient, pointless, or senseless

Delta - Follow individuality rather than rules

Beta - Impose the rules, usurp the rules with different rules.

Thank you, that's more like it.

[jason_m]

well it's more than that... i think it's flat out wrong.

I certainly cannot prove that it's right, so how can anyone prove that it's wrong either, without setting up some type of psychological experiment? Therefore, I would classify the idea as a theoretical construct, useful for illustrating something about how people act, but not the type of thing you could easily say is right or wrong... For this reason, you cannot view anything in socionics they way you would in, say, the hard sciences. You can only see what ideas apply to you, use the ones that do, and discard the ones that don't... I'll admit you're not the only one here who is guilty of this. I would say that nearly everyone has made that mistake at some point in studying the theory, including myself...

Also, I apologize if I seem too hard on you. That's unfortunately the way this relation is... I would find it hard to communicate in any other way, and that's definitely a problem here...

[Suz]

I certainly cannot prove that it's right, so how can anyone prove that it's wrong either, without setting up some type of psychological experiment? Therefore, I would classify the idea as a theoretical construct, useful for illustrating something about how people act, but not the type of thing you could easily say is right or wrong... For this reason, you cannot view anything in socionics they way you would in, say, the hard sciences. You can only see what ideas apply to you, use the ones that do, and discard the ones that don't... I'll admit you're not the only one here who is guilty of this. I would say that nearly everyone has made that mistake at some point in studying the theory, including myself...

Also, I apologize if I seem too hard on you. That's unfortunately the way this relation is... I would find it hard to communicate in any other way, and that's definitely a problem here...

well, it's wrong if the deltas dont relate at all to it, and if my experiences with betas have proven different from your assertion.

you can theorize all you want, and explain away your thoughts to infinity, if they dont prove true practically, then they are wrong.

Before you get all this confidence, you have some socionics learning to do my friend.

Check JWC's version of what you tried to do -- I agree with his.


p.s. no need to apologize... i'm not offended. I just know you dont have any idea of what you're talking about. You're right in that socionics is not like the hard sciences but that does not mean you can just say anything and it'll be correct. Real life is what you check socionic ideas against, to see if you've got it right, and there is some trial and error involved, but there is a way to ascertain these things.

[Suz]

For this reason, you cannot view anything in socionics they way you would in, say, the hard sciences. You can only see what ideas apply to you, use the ones that do, and discard the ones that don't... I'll admit you're not the only one here who is guilty of this. I would say that nearly everyone has made that mistake at some point in studying the theory, including myself...

why are you preaching to me like i'm a newb? i've been studying this stuff for 5-6 years now. I know all about what you're saying here, better than you, apparently, considering your overconfidence.

Newb.

[jason_m]

why are you preaching to me like i'm a newb? i've been studying this stuff for 5-6 years now. I know all about what you're saying here, better than you, apparently, considering your overconfidence.

Newb.

Obviously, you can't prove that my notion is false anymore than I can prove that it's true, anymore than anyone else can prove anything equally as subjective (unless you have some kind of psychology laboratory in your mind...). If you can't understand that , then I'm not going to bother explaining it to you... In other words, it's just purely subjective food for thought... Let's not pretend that I'm 100% right and you're 100% wrong, because that's probably not the case, and would obviously be very hard to establish either way anyways...

EDIT: Think of it like detective work:

I think John killed the girl. You think that's dumb; it was Bill. The problem is that these are just theories. Without actually doing the grunt work of checking the scene of the crime, where these people were at the time of the crime, their phone records, etc., then we cannot know who is right and who is wrong; we could both just as easily be wrong. The same rules apply here. And, in our case, it is very hard to prove, because it's not easy to 'check' who is right... Therefore, because of this problem of, say, 'verification', let's not fight about it and just accept our differences...