How to find/identify/recognize ESIs-ISFjs: style, characteristics, observations

[Jarno]

I'm glad I'm not ESI. Sounds like it really sucks.

uhh don't confuse me, you are ESI right?

[xkj220]

This is something on the whole topic of submissiveness and IxFx types that I yoinked from a very insightful poster on another forum:

Some other people already hit on the topic of how the word submissive is not the best word to use, so I'll go on from there.

In my opinion, feelers by nature will try to please others. One of the most common ways to please others is to not be forceful. I feel IxFPs are the least forceful of all people. They will not (for the most part) force anything on anybody, but allow the other person to make the decision. By having the other person make the decision, the decision maker is happy. Because the decision maker is happy, the other person (IxFP) is happy as well. There is a flip side to the coin. If the decision maker tries to force his/her way on the feeler, the feeler will not be as happy going with his/her decision. In the end, the feeler will try to avoid the forceful person, so the conflict of that person being forceful doesn't happen.

It isn't so much IxFxs like to submit, but they are happy allowing others to take the lead. The only problem I've experienced is everybody needs to state what they would like to do every now and then. If you don't state your wants and needs at a healthy rate, then you can bottle up some negative emotions. What I mean by this is feelers (in general) will sacrifice their wants and/or needs for the wants and/or needs of others, so there can be peace in the group. If the group or person doesn't take the time to consider the feeler's opinions because they don't state them, the feeler can end up bottling up negative emotions about those people because they don't take the same amount of time to consider the feeler's feelings as the feeler would theirs.

In the end, I've notice two kind of reactions. The xxFJ (in general) will end up exploding in a huge rage shocking everybody and even scaring them. It is there that something finally gets done, but the damage has been caused and could of been avoided if the xxFJ had let his/her opinions known earlier. The xxFP (in general) will end up never releasing their anger at all, but allow it to dwell inside of them. This causes the anger to turn into bitterness, which is by far more damaging than any other kind of emotion. When a person is bitter, they will always show some kind of negative emotion towards the person they are bitter against. The person who is on the receiving end of this will have no idea why this person has turned into such an negative person. The only cure for this is for both parties to see the problem and come up with a solution together. Talking about one's issues (regardless of the personality type) is always one of the best methods of solving the problem.

Overall, some people are more forceful by nature, while others prefer to back down by nature. xxTJ forceful, xxFP back down, xxFJ gentle forcefulness, xxTP just plain quiet but stands strong.

My thoughts: I can understand how any type that engages is this sort of behavior would be deemed as "submissive". But the matter is more complicated and deeper than what is usually portrayed as. Neither roles -- that of the "controller" and the "controlled" -- are excusable, as I consider that anyone is free to leave an uncomfortable situation at any time they deem appropriate (unless threatened or something of the sort, of course, but even in this case I think there are always alternatives).

Enneagram 9's, with their tendency to be pleasing and go with the flow, are the most likely to fall onto these kind of "traps". I don't want to sound condescending... but if you are one; watch out.

[FDG]

Furthermore, I think the only people I've ever known who thought that the word "submission" had a positive connotation were all LSI.

lYes, but we don't speak the same language nor we come from the same culture, which means that submissive probably has vastly different connotations in our usages.

[Joy]

lYes, but we don't speak the same language nor we come from the same culture, which means that submissive probably has vastly different connotations in our usages.

Good point.

What do you mean by "submissive" then? How do ESI's act?

[redbaron]

Most ESI females have a sort of "prissy" or "icy" feel about them. They seem like someone who's very on top of things, someone who won't let you get away with treating them unprofessionally or inappropriately. Or in the very least won't be amused by it.

Once you get to know them they're more playful, of course.

my best friend in jr. high and high school was ESI. She was exactly this way. Totally fun to be around when it was just the two of us but really did come across as prissy and icy. There was always this sense that it was us against the rest of the world or something. I enjoyed that.

[calenwen]

The box was getting a little cramped and uncomfortable. Thought I'd stand up, stretch, and just be a human being.

Awesomeness. (:

Anyway, this thread makes me think that I am not ESI.

[1981slater]

Good point.

What do you mean by "submissive" then? How do ESI's act?

Submissive (non-sexual) means following the rules, not questioning your masters, enforcing the status-quo, being on time, being neat...

[Joy]

following the rules, not questioning your masters, enforcing the status-quo

ESI's follow the rules when (if!) they agree with them, but other than that, these things do not apply to ESI's.

[1981slater]

ESI's follow the rules when (if!) they agree with them, but other than that, these things do not apply to ESI's.

I am gonna count to three. When you wake up you will believe that those things DO apply to ESIs

[Joy]

Count all you want. Your perception of ESI's is far different from mine.

Their Ti role and Se PoLR can cause them to follow the rules too much in a work environment sometimes when it doesn't interfere with their subjective moral values, but it's not nothing to do with "status quo", and they won't sacrifice their personal values for "rules". And they most certainly do question their "masters". (They don't think of those in charge of them as their masters though, of course.)

[1981slater]

Count all you want.

oh, thanks

Your perception of ESI's is far different from mine.

this is not the Soviet Union

Their Ti role and Se PoLR can cause them to follow the rules too much in a work environment sometimes when it doesn't interfere with their subjective moral values, but it's not nothing to do with "status quo", and they won't sacrifice their personal values for "rules"

following orders is not a means for them, but an end

And they most certainly do question their "masters". (They don't think of those in charge of them as their masters though, of course.)

master, master
master of puppets I am pulling your strings
twisting our mind and smashing your dreams
blinded by mind u can't see a thing
just call my name, I'll hear you screeeeeaaaaaammm

[xkj220]

I'd like to make an intermission here to call to attention who I consider to be the coolest ESi-Se in history (even though was butchered by the newest movies a bit imho):

[Joy]

oh, thanks

this is not the Soviet Union

Really???

following orders is not a means for them, but an end

It's just what they think they have to do in order to get along (same as any type's role).

[1981slater]

Vader is an unhealthy ENTp, but there are some threads about this somewhere...

[1981slater]

It's just what they think they have to do in order to get along (same as any type's role).

Porn actors must have a big / as role then

[xkj220]

Vader is an unhealthy ENTp, but there are some threads about this somewhere...

Nope, he's ESI-Se. The emperor is ILI-Ni, and Luke is INFj-Fi.

[discojoe]

Vader is an unhealthy ENTp, but there are some threads about this somewhere...

Vader is clearly ESI. There is nothing at all to suggest ILE. The only reason I can think of for so severe a mistyping is that Anakin was probably SLE.


Other fictional ESIs:

Batman in Begins and TDK (and in the Arkham Asylum game).

Alfred in Batman Begins and TDK.

Picard.

McCoy.

Gandalf in the movies.

The Bride.


Nonfictional:

Michael Caine

Christopher Hitchens

Michelle Malkin

Sarah Palin

Hillary Clinton

Michelle Obama

George Washington

King John

[marooned]

I agree completely with Vader being ESI-ish. When he gives an order he wants it done with no complaining or excuses and he doesn't want to hear that it can't be done or about all the different factors about why it's impossible to accomplish... people who make excuses need to be 'properly motivated' and those who are entirely incompetent and have demonstrated as much on multiple occassions need to be done away with. Basically, people who don't give him Te just don't last very long. ... His goal is to stand together with someone infinitely important to him and bring peace to the galaxy while crushing those who get in the way. Sounds like the dark side of FiSe to me. Not to mention, the people who are important to him or who he respects are generally Fi/Te as well, all two or three of them... The Emperor (probably LIE), Leia (probably Te), and Luke (probably Fi). Admittedly I just had the impression he liked Leia, which wasn't going to change that she would be executed if caught.

[xkj220]

Other fictional ESIs:

Batman in Begins and TDK (and in the Arkham Asylum game).

Alfred in Batman Begins and TDK.

Picard.

McCoy.

Gandalf in the movies.

The Bride.


Nonfictional:

Michael Caine

Christopher Hitchens

Michelle Malkin

Sarah Palin

Hillary Clinton

Michelle Obama

George Washington

King John

I agree with many of those. I can see Batman of TDK as LSI (maybe because the actor is probably LSE, and I have a theory that contrary is one of the types that a person can pull of a successful acting of). But his typing of ESI would make things interesting as I type TDK's Joker ENTj. Alfred seems SLI, or other Si ego type. Gandalf seems like an NT to me (either LII or LIE).

Also, I see Barack Obama himself as ESI-Fi (but I'm not completely sure).


I'll add a few from my list:

Paul Newman
Brigitte Bardot

[discojoe]

I agree completely with Vader being ESI-ish. When he gives an order he wants it done with no complaining or excuses and he doesn't want to hear that it can't be done or about all the different factors about why it's impossible to accomplish... people who make excuses need to be 'properly motivated' and those who are entirely incompetent and have demonstrated as much on multiple occassions need to be done away with. Basically, people who don't give him Te just don't last very long. ... His goal is to stand together with someone infinitely important to him and bring peace to the galaxy while crushing those who get in the way. Sounds like the dark side of FiSe to me. Not to mention, the people who are important to him or who he respects are generally Fi/Te as well, all two or three of them... The Emperor (probably LIE), Leia (probably Te), and Luke (probably Fi). Admittedly I just had the impression he liked Leia, which wasn't going to change that she would be executed if caught.

Brilliant.

I agree with many of those. I can see Batman of TDK as LSI (maybe because the actor is probably LSE, and I have a theory that contrary is one of the types that a person can pull of a successful acting of). But his typing of ESI would make things interesting as I type TDK's Joker ENTj. Alfred seems SLI, or other Si ego type. Gandalf seems like an NT to me (either LII or LIE).

Also, I see Barack Obama himself as ESI-Fi (but I'm not completely sure).

Gandalf is too confident in his use of Se to be NT.

Obama has no Se whatsoever; his ESI wife, on the other hand, does.

[silke]

video of a very stereotypical ESI, both the actress and the role that she plays in this movie

The Girl trailer with Abbie Cornish



Jerry LaVigne (ESI-Fi), a very obvious example of negativist -Fi+Se "enforcement" taking place within this video - when his friends don't act the way he feels they should act, he feels "out of control" and reinforces how they should behave according to his own set of "personal rules" (Fi + Se)

[Azure Flame]

typical symptoms of ESI include: breast implants and duckface, matched with a backbone and firm sense of self.

[blackburry]

typical symptoms of ESI include: breast implants and duckface, matched with a backbone and firm sense of self.

she represents every ESI I have ever met, obviously.

[DaftPunk]

When you see a guy who looks like him
crusader.jpg

[Azure Flame]

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

peter steele :<

[Bardia]

When you see a guy who looks like him
crusader.jpg

This. And you just know.